494 réponses à ce sujet

[fostered]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

fostered wrote...

It'd be awesome if everyone ended up being bisexual. I really liked that about Dragon Age 2. I mean that's what rpgs are all about, more choices. Having them all bi doesn't give anyone less choice everyone can play their own playthrough to how they'd like.

And look how it suffered in the choice department. Not just the choice/consequence one, because I've largely already given up hope for that one, but simple illusion of choice: there isn't a single real choice you make in that game.

I felt that had more to do with it being a middle chapter that is forcing a setup for the third installment rather than having anything to do with who you got to pick to romance.

[Kaiser Shepard]

fostered wrote...

I felt that had more to do with it being a middle chapter that is forcing a setup for the third installment rather than having anything to do with who you got to pick to romance.

The fact that it is a middle chapter doesn't have to preclude it from having any decent choices: from what I've heard and seen of the Witcher 2, it seems perfectly possible.

[ElitePinecone]

@Recon:

What do you envisage replacing this lovely politically-correct leftist utopia that you claim is running rampant across whatever country you happen to live in?

A glorious golden age of righteous religious morality? Family values? Respect for flag, country, institutions? Children obeying their parents and everything obeying the natural order of things?

I'm genuinely interested.

[Russalka]

So many generalisations from everyone!

I think I should just spam this everywhere, but I only have strength to do it a second time:

Modifié par Russalka, 19 septembre 2011 - 07:37 .

[fostered]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

fostered wrote...

I felt that had more to do with it being a middle chapter that is forcing a setup for the third installment rather than having anything to do with who you got to pick to romance.

The fact that it is a middle chapter doesn't have to preclude it from having any decent choices: from what I've heard and seen of the Witcher 2, it seems perfectly possible.

Oh of course, I'm not excusing the choices fact based on it being a middle chapter. It was bothersome that all the plot choices were lacking. I'm just saying that I don't believe its failings had anything to do with everyone being a dateable option.

[Inquisitor Recon]

So this is what I'm getting from their argument:

All of the LIs should be bisexual because some people might feel left-out by not being able to sleep with the virtual LI of their choosing. Continuity and well-defined, well-written characters don't matter here because there are already some issues. If you find heterosexual characters more relatable, or (in the case of LIs) attractive, you're a homophobic bigoted member of the KKK whose opinion doesn't matter. Despite being a small minority of players and the overall population, we should have the exact same number of LIs, and nobody should refuse to sleep with us in-game based on gender. Bioware should listen to us because we are a minority who deserve an insane amount of catering even if it reduces the quality of the game for other players. The time and effort spent implementing this could not be better used elsewhere.

Seems about right.

[BroBear Berbil]

ElitePinecone wrote...

@Recon:

What do you envisage replacing this lovely politically-correct leftist utopia that you claim is running rampant across whatever country you happen to live in?

A glorious golden age of righteous religious morality? Family values? Respect for flag, country, institutions? Children obeying their parents and everything obeying the natural order of things?

I'm genuinely interested.

A lot of that actually sounds pretty good. Can't speak for Recon but I'd settle for a world where the writers write gay characters and straight characters but they're all distinct and have set backstories. Kind of like...um...oh New Vegas.

[Kaiser Shepard]

fostered wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

fostered wrote...

I felt that had more to do with it being a middle chapter that is forcing a setup for the third installment rather than having anything to do with who you got to pick to romance.

The fact that it is a middle chapter doesn't have to preclude it from having any decent choices: from what I've heard and seen of the Witcher 2, it seems perfectly possible.

Oh of course, I'm not excusing the choices fact based on it being a middle chapter. It was bothersome that all the plot choices were lacking. I'm just saying that I don't believe its failings had anything to do with everyone being a dateable option.

I think it has more to do with romances apparently being more of a reason to buy these sorts of games nowadays than the actual game, and that BW feels more romance options will satisfy more people with the game, even though the whole is lacking.

[Xilizhra]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

From the looks of this thread, there are a few heterophobes then...

No one here has ever attacked heterosexual relationships.

aaaaaand who has attacked homosexual relationships? Saying they don't want the characters in the game to all become bi has nothing to do with homosexual relationships. Who here is saying that homosexual relationships are wrong? Again, someone saying they don't want it in the game but don't care if it's in the "bedroom" is not attacking the relationship. They're attacking the in-game representation of it.

People are throwing around terms they have no business throwing around, is what I'm saying.

Reconteam. I'm not sure about the others, but he has a definite agenda and has stated outright that he disapproves of homosexuality.
Also, asking to keep it in the bedroom, as an implication of never allowing the fact that you have a relationship to be exposed to the public, is another form of attack.

[Comsky159]

I think what I'm most worried about is they'll do away with the platonic relationship in pursuit of inclusiveness, further homogenizing already highly alike relationship dynamics to keep one group happy. Although I find the romance subplots engaging I'd have to say that my characters are Wrex and Garrus (as a male obviously) because I adore the "bro" dynamism they propagate.

I like versatility in the way relationships manifest themselves and I don't want every character thinking about Shepard's derriere constantly.

Basically I guess I just generally oppose new romance in ME3 altogether, however I'll accept them as long as the platonic concept of "friend" isn't butchered in these new romances' wake.

[BroBear Berbil]

greengoron89 wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

So this is what I'm getting from their argument:

All of the LIs should be bisexual because some people might feel left-out by not being able to sleep with the virtual LI of their choosing. Continuity and well-defined, well-written characters don't matter here because there are already some issues. If you find heterosexual characters more relatable, or (in the case of LIs) attractive, you're a homophobic bigoted member of the KKK whose opinion doesn't matter. Despite being a small minority of players and the overall population, we should have the exact same number of LIs, and nobody should refuse to sleep with us in-game based on gender. Bioware should listen to us because we are a minority who deserve an insane amount of catering even if it reduces the quality of the game for other players. The time and effort spent implementing this could not be better used elsewhere.

Seems about right.

You have terrible reading comprehension, then.

No that's pretty much been what the argument has been. Can't settle for a bisexual or homosexual option because omg straight people get 1 more option. I must have the straight character - it cannot refuse me.

[fostered]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

fostered wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

fostered wrote...

I felt that had more to do with it being a middle chapter that is forcing a setup for the third installment rather than having anything to do with who you got to pick to romance.

The fact that it is a middle chapter doesn't have to preclude it from having any decent choices: from what I've heard and seen of the Witcher 2, it seems perfectly possible.

Oh of course, I'm not excusing the choices fact based on it being a middle chapter. It was bothersome that all the plot choices were lacking. I'm just saying that I don't believe its failings had anything to do with everyone being a dateable option.

I think it has more to do with romances apparently being more of a reason to buy these sorts of games nowadays than the actual game, and that BW feels more romance options will satisfy more people with the game, even though the whole is lacking.

I can see that. Which is a shame. I'm rather hoping for a happy medium where we can have any pick of love interest based on personality and character and such, and also have a full bodied awesome story with valid choices. I think Dragon Age 2 did a good job with the romance aspect not so much on the whole story overall persay, and I'm hoping Mass Effect 3 takes the good things from DA2 and fixes the not so good things.

[ElitePinecone]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
 even though the whole is lacking.

What evidence, at all, do you have that this is the case for ME3?

DA2 was mismanaged, mismarketed, underfunded and incomplete. But that had nothing to do with the romances. 

Unless you think the time and effort spent on a few lines of dialogue, voice acting and animation could've fixed its central plot, created a dozen new environments and made the game significantly longer. 

[tagoloan boy]

I say just give the S/S crowd Vega. You know he's gona be a lame character ;-)

[tagoloan boy]

And kaiden too

[Inquisitor Recon]

OnionXI wrote...
Can't speak for Recon but I'd settle for a world where the writers write gay characters and straight characters but they're all distinct and have set backstories. Kind of like...um...oh New Vegas.

That'd work over this "everybody's bisexual" business.

[Kaiser Shepard]

greengoron89 wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

So this is what I'm getting from their argument:

All of the LIs should be bisexual because some people might feel left-out by not being able to sleep with the virtual LI of their choosing. Continuity and well-defined, well-written characters don't matter here because there are already some issues. If you find heterosexual characters more relatable, or (in the case of LIs) attractive, you're a homophobic bigoted member of the KKK whose opinion doesn't matter. Despite being a small minority of players and the overall population, we should have the exact same number of LIs, and nobody should refuse to sleep with us in-game based on gender. Bioware should listen to us because we are a minority who deserve an insane amount of catering even if it reduces the quality of the game for other players. The time and effort spent implementing this could not be better used elsewhere.

Seems about right.

You have terrible reading comprehension, then.

Yet all of it is merely a summary of what has been said in this topic.

Xilizhra wrote...

Also, asking to keep it in the bedroom, as an implication of never allowing the fact that you have a relationship to be exposed to the public, is another form of attack.

Well yeah, do keep it in the bedroom. I have no need to know, read, or  - worst of all - see people's sexual activities (depravities, if you will) when not asked for. And with that I mean all of y'all, not just one minority or anything.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 19 septembre 2011 - 07:47 .

[Russalka]

tagoloan boy wrote...

You know he's gona be a lame character ;-)

No.

[Espurr]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

From the looks of this thread, there are a few heterophobes then...

No one here has ever attacked heterosexual relationships.

aaaaaand who has attacked homosexual relationships? Saying they don't want the characters in the game to all become bi has nothing to do with homosexual relationships. Who here is saying that homosexual relationships are wrong? Again, someone saying they don't want it in the game but don't care if it's in the "bedroom" is not attacking the relationship. They're attacking the in-game representation of it.

People are throwing around terms they have no business throwing around, is what I'm saying.

I'm not saying that everyone who doesn't want every character to be bisexual is homophobic, because I don't believe that. But some people in this thread have made some very homophobic comments (again, not everyone, but some).

What bothers me most is people acting like a character's sexuality is rigid, and a vital part of their personality. To me, a character's sexuality is completely incidental to their personality and having a character change/expand their sexuality (even though no character's sexuality has been explicitly stated, so this should be a moot point) is not particularly unrealistic.

[BroBear Berbil]

Comsky159 wrote...

I think what I'm most worried about is they'll do away with the platonic relationship in pursuit of inclusiveness, further homogenizing already highly alike relationship dynamics to keep one group happy. Although I find the romance subplots engaging I'd have to say that my characters are Wrex and Garrus (as a male obviously) because I adore the "bro" dynamism they propagate.

I like versatility in the way relationships manifest themselves and I don't want every character thinking about Shepard's derriere constantly.

Basically I guess I just generally oppose new romance in ME3 altogether, however I'll accept them as long as the platonic concept of "friend" isn't butchered in these new romances' wake.

I strongly agree with this and it's something I'm a little concerned about too. The platonic relationships in BioWare games to me have far exceeded the romances which come off as pretty shallow and a matter of pandering to whatever character.

[Gotholhorakh]

This argument always descends into stupidity, because on one hand you have some quite prejudiced people, and on the other hand, you have lots of people who think it's morally wrong for anyone to have a different world view to them.

I am honestly not sure which is the more horrifying.

Hundreds of shades of moderate debate from people (that is, the rest of us) get lost in between the black and white of 2 different sorts of reactionary fascism. Yay.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 19 septembre 2011 - 07:49 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Also, asking to keep it in the bedroom, as an implication of never allowing the fact that you have a relationship to be exposed to the public, is another form of attack.

Well yeah, do keep it in the bedroom. I have no need to know, read, or  - worst of all - see people's sexual activities (depravities, if you will) when not asked for. And with that I mean all of y'all, not just one minority or anything.

Kaiser summed up my thoughts on the matter. I'm not "attacking" you by expecting that. I don't like heterosexual guys giving me graphic details of their "exploits" either.

[tagoloan boy]

Can't speak for Recon but I'd settle for a world where the writers write gay characters and straight characters but they're all distinct and have set backstories. Kind of like...um...oh New Vegas.

Agree with this!