73 réponses à ce sujet

[Savber100]

They were plenty of issues in Arrival that made the DLC disappointing... but worst DLC for ME? You clearly didn't play the ME1 DLCs like Pinnacle Station.

[Black Raptor]

capn233 wrote...

As far as the Reaper fleet using the Alpha to just go to the Citadel, the problem is still getting someone into the Citadel to prevent the arms from closing.  Apparently the Reapers cannot exert control over the station from outside, or else Sovi would have done so.  The Citadel is pretty tough when the arms are closed.  Even if the Reapers can blow it open, will the relay control functions remain intact?  The main usefulness is the control of the relay network, which allows each system to be isolated so that the Reapers choose the time and place of engagement, while the resistance has no means to reinforce in between systems.

If it weren't for the distance and time as well as control of the relays, I would agree that ME1 was somewhat pointless, but those are no small details when you are trying to ensure success against galactic resistance.

If getting an agent inside the Citadel was so important, Sovereign could've timed his attack to coincide with the Reapers ariving via the Alpha Relay. Negating the need for the Citadel being a big Mass Relay, but they'd still get control of everything and kill the council. 

d1sciple wrote...i don't understand the arguement? are you saying that they point of arrival overruled ME1 because the Reapers can just travel through the relays?

That was a common argument from people who didn't understand ME1 before arrival came out (why didn't the Reapers just fly in?) Now it is a valid argument again. 

[Sgt Stryker]

The Reapers didn't just fly in because they were all still hibernating. The fact that Sovereign did not just tell the rest of the armada to wake up and start flying, after its first signal to the Citadel failed (remember, the Protheans sabotaged the Keepers) tells me that Sovereign could not do that. In order to send such a signal, it had to access the Citadel and send it from there.

Either that or you could call it a plot hole. Your choice.

[Black Raptor]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

The Reapers didn't just fly in because they were all still hibernating. The fact that Sovereign did not just tell the rest of the armada to wake up and start flying, after its first signal to the Citadel failed (remember, the Protheans sabotaged the Keepers) tells me that Sovereign could not do that. In order to send such a signal, it had to access the Citadel and send it from there.

Either that or you could call it a plot hole. Your choice.

There are other ways of fixing the plot hole. None of them are confirmed though, so until bioware clarify, it's a plot hole.

That said, it's pretty obvious that the Reapers do have a means of communicating with each other, as shown by the fact that Harbinger can talk in real time with any collector in existence. Why make it so you can talk through some minion from anywhere to anywhere and not so you could speak to your own kind? (especially one as important as the vanguard)

[d1sciple]

Black Raptor wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

The Reapers didn't just fly in because they were all still hibernating. The fact that Sovereign did not just tell the rest of the armada to wake up and start flying, after its first signal to the Citadel failed (remember, the Protheans sabotaged the Keepers) tells me that Sovereign could not do that. In order to send such a signal, it had to access the Citadel and send it from there.

Either that or you could call it a plot hole. Your choice.

There are other ways of fixing the plot hole. None of them are confirmed though, so until bioware clarify, it's a plot hole.

That said, it's pretty obvious that the Reapers do have a means of communicating with each other, as shown by the fact that Harbinger can talk in real time with any collector in existence. Why make it so you can talk through some minion from anywhere to anywhere and not so you could speak to your own kind? (especially one as important as the vanguard)

personally i don't think Soveriegn was the vangaurd of anything, nor Harbinger some sort of leader, i don't think they work that way, maybe they just drew straws.
it's well established why the Citadel is what it is being the 'centre' of the galaxy. the Reapers need a hub to control the galaxy so they can go on harvesting in an orderly fashion, so there shouldn't be any arguement as to whether that's a good idea or not, that's their established plan.
so as far as a plot hole goes when we look at ME1 and Arrival the only logical conclusion is that the Reapers left for the Alpha when the signal failed and Sovereign went on it's suicide mission to restore the Citadel, there's nothing to say he didn't communicate with them or that they(the hibernating Reapers) don't know about it.
they need the Citadel and they need to get there, so the backup plan was to just bloody fly there and have Soveriegn try to take it by force instead of by surprise. it makes sense, that's what i'd do when planning an invasion that's failed, which is what it is now, a failed invasion.
i don't see why it needs to be clarified, i thought it was all pretty logical. my only gripe was the frustration at finding out the whole time i was chasing Saren and Sovereign around the place the Reapers were already on thier way, but i don't see how that then renders the story irrelevant.

[Black Raptor]

d1sciple wrote...

personally i don't think Soveriegn was the vangaurd of anything, nor Harbinger some sort of leader, i don't think they work that way, maybe they just drew straws.

Sovereign was a vanguard. He says as much himself. That's the reason he stayed behind.

it's well established why the Citadel is what it is being the 'centre' of the galaxy. the Reapers need a hub to control the galaxy so they can go on harvesting in an orderly fashion, so there shouldn't be any arguement as to whether that's a good idea or not, that's their established plan.
so as far as a plot hole goes when we look at ME1 and Arrival the only logical conclusion is that the Reapers left for the Alpha when the signal failed and Sovereign went on it's suicide mission to restore the Citadel, there's nothing to say he didn't communicate with them or that they(the hibernating Reapers) don't know about it.
they need the Citadel and they need to get there, so the backup plan was to just bloody fly there and have Soveriegn try to take it by force instead of by surprise. it makes sense, that's what i'd do when planning an invasion that's failed, which is what it is now, a failed invasion.
i don't see why it needs to be clarified, i thought it was all pretty logical. my only gripe was the frustration at finding out the whole time i was chasing Saren and Sovereign around the place the Reapers were already on thier way, but i don't see how that then renders the story irrelevant.

All sovereign needed to do was wait 2 years for the entire reaper fleet to arrive, then attack the Citadel with Saren and all the Geth. 

The reason the Citadel was so important to the Reapers was because it was their way into the galaxy. Suddenly arrival comes along and it's revealed that they were never more than 2 years away just by FTL, which makes the Citadel relay part a bit pointless. 

[d1sciple]

Black Raptor wrote...

All sovereign needed to do was wait 2 years for the entire reaper fleet to arrive, then attack the Citadel with Saren and all the Geth. 

The reason the Citadel was so important to the Reapers was because it was their way into the galaxy. Suddenly arrival comes along and it's revealed that they were never more than 2 years away just by FTL, which makes the Citadel relay part a bit pointless. 

you missed 3 crucial things i mentioned.

firstly that the Citadel Relay is part of a surprise/ambush plan. it makes alot more sense to launch a surprise attack on the centre of the galaxy than to risk a 2 year journey to get there, one which may see your opponent gain a possible advantage. in less than a minute you go from having a drink down in Zakera to having thousands of Reapers on top of you, that's a more preferable scenario to the Reapers than slowly making your way in, having to fight through organised battalians and having the galaxy form plans while you meander along and the species you've come for possibly escapes. it could take months to get through the relay system to the Citadel. every planet on the way will send word to everyone else and it'll be like fighting through a battlefield a galaxy long just to get to the Citadel. even though they think they're superior that is still not a prefered scenario.
remember also, and super important this, that the Citadel is where they control the rest of the relays as Vigil states. from there they can cut everyone off from everyone else and thus effectively stop any type of possible counterattack or escape, they need that control.

the second is that the plan failed. Sovereigns suicide mission finding Saren and taking control, building a Geth army and searching for the Conduit was their last hope of fullfilling their ambush plan and they waited to see that through. this is why the Reapers are traveling old school now, because their plan failed for the first time and now they have to do things the hard way.

the third being that only a fool would believe anything Sovereign says. someone in another thread tried to say that as machines Reapers can't lie, which is iliogical and was easily disproved. most of what Sovereign says to shep is a lie. the Reapers aren't immortal, they didn't create themselves, they don't destroy all organic life and the only reason it said that, in the way it did,  can only of been to intimidate shep. that interaction and the way it speaks can give us real insight into how it thinks and how the Reapers operate. on one hand it's telling you it's god, on the other it's making a desperate attempt to try and fix the failing plan, recruiting untrustworthy goons(that can be turned with a simple convo by shep) and fanatic robots and generally making a huge mess of things. god, vangaurd? yeah bloody right, great big purple fool more like it.

Modifié par d1sciple, 21 septembre 2011 - 10:19 .

[Sgt Stryker]

The Reapers began their journey after Sovereign was destroyed, not before. Look up Mac Walter's tweet from August 24. Again, they were in hibernation before the Battle of the Citadel, and only woke up after Sovereign was destroyed.

[BancsBubbl3]

I was going to give Arrival a go, but now I don't see the point...

Anyway, I have LotSB and that's good enough for me. And I already know what happens in Arrival, too, so...

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

Highly underrated DLC - I liked many aspects of it.

[Tonymac]

Seeing as that this is a non-spoiler thread, I am not going to get into the who - what-when-where-how and why.

It suffices to say that Arrival is a big part of ME2 that sets up ME3, and that it is in NO way at all a plothole in my opinion.

I thought that the DLC was quite a bit of fun. It is large, fairly involved, and fits into the ME genre well.

[Nyxia]

I thought it was alright, another standard shoot-everything-something-explodes kind of content.

[Black Raptor]

d1sciple wrote...

Black Raptor wrote...

All sovereign needed to do was wait 2 years for the entire reaper fleet to arrive, then attack the Citadel with Saren and all the Geth. 

The reason the Citadel was so important to the Reapers was because it was their way into the galaxy. Suddenly arrival comes along and it's revealed that they were never more than 2 years away just by FTL, which makes the Citadel relay part a bit pointless. 

you missed 3 crucial things i mentioned.

firstly that the Citadel Relay is part of a surprise/ambush plan. it makes alot more sense to launch a surprise attack on the centre of the galaxy than to risk a 2 year journey to get there, one which may see your opponent gain a possible advantage. in less than a minute you go from having a drink down in Zakera to having thousands of Reapers on top of you, that's a more preferable scenario to the Reapers than slowly making your way in, having to fight through organised battalians and having the galaxy form plans while you meander along and the species you've come for possibly escapes. it could take months to get through the relay system to the Citadel. every planet on the way will send word to everyone else and it'll be like fighting through a battlefield a galaxy long just to get to the Citadel. even though they think they're superior that is still not a prefered scenario.
remember also, and super important this, that the Citadel is where they control the rest of the relays as Vigil states. from there they can cut everyone off from everyone else and thus effectively stop any type of possible counterattack or escape, they need that control.

But that's the thing. Without Sovereign's attack on the Citadel, nobody would even know Reaper's existed. Therefore, them flying through the Alpha relay would still be a surprise attack because nobody would've been looking for them so they'd remain unseen for those 2 years of flying. All they'd need to do is fly to the Alpha relay and hop straight to the Citadel. No need for any of this "months of flying through relays" BS.

Modifié par Black Raptor, 21 septembre 2011 - 03:08 .

[Black Raptor]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

The Reapers began their journey after Sovereign was destroyed, not before. Look up Mac Walter's tweet from August 24. Again, they were in hibernation before the Battle of the Citadel, and only woke up after Sovereign was destroyed.

Why didn't they start as soon as they realised the Keeper's no longer obeyed their signal? Time their arrival at the Alpha Relay with Sovereign's attack on the Citadel.

A much better plan. It even allows Sovereign and Saren to be more subtle in finding the Conduit.

[Sgt Stryker]

Black Raptor wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

The Reapers began their journey after Sovereign was destroyed, not before. Look up Mac Walter's tweet from August 24. Again, they were in hibernation before the Battle of the Citadel, and only woke up after Sovereign was destroyed.

Why didn't they start as soon as they realised the Keeper's no longer obeyed their signal? Time their arrival at the Alpha Relay with Sovereign's attack on the Citadel.

A much better plan. It even allows Sovereign and Saren to be more subtle in finding the Conduit.

That's just it. "They" did not realize the Keepers did not obey the signal, because they were in Sleep Mode. Only Sovereign did. OK, let's assume that Sovereign can somehow communicate with the rest of the Reapers, no matter where they are in the universe (presumably it's equipped with a quantum entanglement communicator for each Reaper in existence). We know that Sovereign did not send a signal to the rest of the Reapers to wake up, when it realized that the Keepers were sabotaged. Instead, the events of ME1 took place. Therefore, I believe it is safe to conclude that even if Sovereign had the capability to send the Reapers a message, they would not be able to recognize it. The wake-up call has to come from the Citadel.

[Black Raptor]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Black Raptor wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

The Reapers began their journey after Sovereign was destroyed, not before. Look up Mac Walter's tweet from August 24. Again, they were in hibernation before the Battle of the Citadel, and only woke up after Sovereign was destroyed.

Why didn't they start as soon as they realised the Keeper's no longer obeyed their signal? Time their arrival at the Alpha Relay with Sovereign's attack on the Citadel.

A much better plan. It even allows Sovereign and Saren to be more subtle in finding the Conduit.

That's just it. "They" did not realize the Keepers did not obey the signal, because they were in Sleep Mode. Only Sovereign did. OK, let's assume that Sovereign can somehow communicate with the rest of the Reapers, no matter where they are in the universe (presumably it's equipped with a quantum entanglement communicator for each Reaper in existence). We know that Sovereign did not send a signal to the rest of the Reapers to wake up, when it realized that the Keepers were sabotaged. Instead, the events of ME1 took place. Therefore, I believe it is safe to conclude that even if Sovereign had the capability to send the Reapers a message, they would not be able to recognize it. The wake-up call has to come from the Citadel.

Says who? Why didn't Sovereign send a signal? It makes no sense. The Citadel is already a huge linchpin in the Reaper's plans, why make it their alarm clock too? Are you seriously trying to suggest that Sovereign was unable to have any way of notifying the rest of his kind? 
The Reapers are a good enemy because they are clever. All the suggestions to answer the Arrival plothole just makes them seem like retards.

[Sgt Stryker]

If Sovereign could send a signal, then why not send one immediately after finding out the Keepers were b0rked? The fact that it didn't even try suggests that it could not do so on its own.

It did have a way of informing the rest of its kind - through the Citadel. In fact, Sovereign came incredibly close to succeeding. The only reason it failed is because Shepard happened to be at the right place, at the right time.

Anyway, if you feel so strongly about this, I could ask someone on the Twitter thread to tweet the devs.

[AtreiyaN7]

It was enjoyable, and it also sets up the starting events in ME3. I definitely don't think it was the worst ME DLC (hello, Pinnacle Station - the one piece of ME DLC that I never bothered finishing ).

[Black Raptor]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

If Sovereign could send a signal, then why not send one immediately after finding out the Keepers were b0rked? The fact that it didn't even try suggests that it could not do so on its own.

It did have a way of informing the rest of its kind - through the Citadel. In fact, Sovereign came incredibly close to succeeding. The only reason it failed is because Shepard happened to be at the right place, at the right time.

Anyway, if you feel so strongly about this, I could ask someone on the Twitter thread to tweet the devs.

Who's to say Sovereign didn't? It's not far fetched to think that all the Reapers knew plan A wasn't working. 

[d1sciple]

again some of your assumptions are based on flawed logic guys.

firstly there is indisputable evidence that Sovereign could communicate with the fleet. this is the fact that harbinger was NOT hibernating but instead controlling the Collectors every move, and not just giving them instructions and leaving them to it but CONSTANT control. so then to assume that all the Reapers were hibernating and couldn't receive a signal and/or that Sovereign was unable to send a message is completely illogical.

Given the way that Sov speaks to shep it's highly likely that it thinks itself omnipotent and able to take the Citadel itself and it basically says as much. now the steps it's taken to prepare for this assault have taken time, perhaps longer than what is assumed at around 10+ years before ME1, this shows us that the Keepers signal failed BEFORE the events of ME1, so again it's illogical to assume that Sov had no contact with the Reapers over that time. this is the Reaps plan b, they have prepared a new plan and have sent Sov confident that it would prevail.

secondly the flight to the alpha was the backup plan that they undertook after Sovereign failed. when looked at from any angel, even if you believe yourself omnipotent and are surrounded by about a thousand of your buddies, this is a bad plan. as Arrival shows there's no way they can make the 2 year journey without being 'caught', and they know the negative effects of letting your opponent prepare against you. remember Ilos? they knew a faction of the Protheans escaped, they didn't know about the Keeper signal and the Conduit until after the signal failed and Sov undertook it's mission to find out how and why, but that risk is too great and just barging through the galaxy is a bad idea, but now the only option left to them.

the Reapers are beyond powerful and i cringe when thinking about how the devs are gonna sort that one out, i don't see any way of destroying them and predict a let down but we're talking about how they work and how to predict their actions. it's all there in Sovs little speech, it's just talking a whole load of ****, like kids in the playground. in reality it's undertaking a desperate mission to fix a plan that has failed. it's not a huge stretch to believe that the Reapers think themselves and Sov powerful enough to fulfil it's mission but at the same time Sovs conduct hints at the Reapers desperation and that to me is the crux of it.
this has taken time, from before ME1 and we know this because Saren, under Sovs control, setup BH and ExoG with Cerberus to get a hold of the Rachni egg and the Thorian. there is no reason Saren would of done this on his own, and then coincidentally it's just the stuff Sov wants when they meet up, that is completely illogical. so this suicide mission of Sov's has been in action for a long time, to then suggest that in all that time it could not contact the other Reapers or made a better plan is again illogical. the Reapers aren't a hive mind so we can guess that this is a well thought out plan by a race that believes themselves gods.

holes solved lol.

[Black Raptor]

d1sciple wrote...
secondly the flight to the alpha was the backup plan that they undertook after Sovereign failed. when looked at from any angel, even if you believe yourself omnipotent and are surrounded by about a thousand of your buddies, this is a bad plan. as Arrival shows there's no way they can make the 2 year journey without being 'caught', and they know the negative effects of letting your opponent prepare against you. remember Ilos? they knew a faction of the Protheans escaped, they didn't know about the Keeper signal and the Conduit until after the signal failed and Sov undertook it's mission to find out how and why, but that risk is too great and just barging through the galaxy is a bad idea, but now the only option left to them.

Why couldn't they make the 2 year journey without being caught? 

If Sovereign hadn't attacked then nobody would even know the Reaper's existed. They wouldn't be looking for Reaper artifacts and wouldn't know what one was if they found one. Thus, Object Rho wouldn't have attracted so much attention and definately wouldn't have warned anybody. 

So, the Reaper's sneak up on the Alpha relay, completely undetected by anyone until they enter the system. Batarian slaves are like "wtf are those" and the Reaper fleet hop through the relay to the Citadel. Meanwhile, Sovereign and Saren have found the conduit and attack similtaniously with the rest of the Reapers to gain control of the Citadel, kill the council and take control of the Relays. 

Every objective completed with far fewer risks.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Black Raptor wrote...

d1sciple wrote...
secondly the flight to the alpha was the backup plan that they undertook after Sovereign failed. when looked at from any angel, even if you believe yourself omnipotent and are surrounded by about a thousand of your buddies, this is a bad plan. as Arrival shows there's no way they can make the 2 year journey without being 'caught', and they know the negative effects of letting your opponent prepare against you. remember Ilos? they knew a faction of the Protheans escaped, they didn't know about the Keeper signal and the Conduit until after the signal failed and Sov undertook it's mission to find out how and why, but that risk is too great and just barging through the galaxy is a bad idea, but now the only option left to them.

Why couldn't they make the 2 year journey without being caught? 

If Sovereign hadn't attacked then nobody would even know the Reaper's existed. They wouldn't be looking for Reaper artifacts and wouldn't know what one was if they found one. Thus, Object Rho wouldn't have attracted so much attention and definately wouldn't have warned anybody. 

So, the Reaper's sneak up on the Alpha relay, completely undetected by anyone until they enter the system. Batarian slaves are like "wtf are those" and the Reaper fleet hop through the relay to the Citadel. Meanwhile, Sovereign and Saren have found the conduit and attack similtaniously with the rest of the Reapers to gain control of the Citadel, kill the council and take control of the Relays. 

Every objective completed with far fewer risks.

Yeah because Sovereign should have predicted that a human and his/her two cohorts would travel after Saren, Fight their way up the citadel tower though Geth, rocket turrets, Krogans, more geth even more rocket turrets and then killing first Saren and and after that Sovereign himself...

Come on man Sovereign had no idea that attacking the citadel would constitute any major risk for him.

It's just Monday morning quarterbacking.

[d1sciple]

you're right in that if Sov hadn't of gone on it's suicide mish than no one would've been the wiser as far as the existence of the Reapers goes, but whether or not Rho had been found and studied the 2 year mission is still too much of a risk.

the main point is control of the Citadel, if they go the hard way, which they are now they don't gain control until after a battle, like with Sov, and that leaves your enemies options like retreating and preparing, studying you and possibly gaining an upper hand.

i mean if a thousand Reapers suddenly turned up(remember the Citadel relay is out in space, the Conduit that Sov used is what let them jump right on top of the Citadel, something the Reapers wouldn't have) turned up you think the Ascension and the Turian fleet would stick around for a fight? no way man, they'd grab the council and run and the Reapers would not be able to stop them because not only are the relays still active but they wouldn't be able to predict where they jumped to. that's an incredibly clumsy attack.

if they had of coordinated with Sov then maybe they'd have something extra but then there's the fact that Sov foolishly let it's presence know putting the whole galaxy on stand by which would've led to Rho and so on.

also, importantly, you're forgetting TIM and his 'special' knowledge. regardless of Sov's plans he has intimate knowledge of the Reapers, and that also gives their game away.

there's a huge amount of dangerous variables in the plan, like the Beacon on Eden Prime, someone would've activated it and gained knowledge about them. maybe Liara if left to her studies would've cracked the code and found Ilos. i'm sure if the daughter of Matiarch Benezia, who to everyone's knowledge is not working for the bad guys, had a vision it would be taken seriously by the Council.

too many variables, it's almost like the 50,000 year cycle is the perfect balance between advancement and danger, any longer and the Reapers would be found out and any earlier the galaxies races wouldn't be advanced enough to be useful.

[Black Raptor]

d1sciple wrote...

you're right in that if Sov hadn't of gone on it's suicide mish than no one would've been the wiser as far as the existence of the Reapers goes, but whether or not Rho had been found and studied the 2 year mission is still too much of a risk.

the main point is control of the Citadel, if they go the hard way, which they are now they don't gain control until after a battle, like with Sov, and that leaves your enemies options like retreating and preparing, studying you and possibly gaining an upper hand.

Somehow I feel as if that wouldn't matter so much. Once the Reapers are in and have control of the Citadel, then they are unstoppable. The Protheans tooks centuries to die off, but they were never able to fight back even though they were more advanced.

i mean if a thousand Reapers suddenly turned up(remember the Citadel relay is out in space, the Conduit that Sov used is what let them jump right on top of the Citadel, something the Reapers wouldn't have) turned up you think the Ascension and the Turian fleet would stick around for a fight? no way man, they'd grab the council and run and the Reapers would not be able to stop them because not only are the relays still active but they wouldn't be able to predict where they jumped to. that's an incredibly clumsy attack.

Erm, the conduit led to the relay monument. It was only used by Saren, a few geth stormtroopers and later Shepard and co. Sovereign and the Geth fleet went in the old fashioned way via the Relay network, not the conduit. 

there's a huge amount of dangerous variables in the plan, like the Beacon on Eden Prime, someone would've activated it and gained knowledge about them. maybe Liara if left to her studies would've cracked the code and found Ilos. i'm sure if the daughter of Matiarch Benezia, who to everyone's knowledge is not working for the bad guys, had a vision it would be taken seriously by the Council.

It would amount to an interesting theory as to why the Protheans went extinct, but they'd have no way of knowing about the Citadel being a trap. The Reaper's would still win.

[Sgt Stryker]

d1sciple wrote...

again some of your assumptions are based on flawed logic guys.

firstly there is indisputable evidence that Sovereign could communicate with the fleet. this is the fact that harbinger was NOT hibernating but instead controlling the Collectors every move, and not just giving them instructions and leaving them to it but CONSTANT control. so then to assume that all the Reapers were hibernating and couldn't receive a signal and/or that Sovereign was unable to send a message is completely illogical.

Harbinger was only active after the events of ME1, though. For all we know, the Collectors could have been running a passive observation program, and not actively taking part in the Reaper's plans. There is no indication that Harbinger needs to constantly Assume Control for the Collectors to function. Unless there's some novel or comic that says otherwise.

In any case, here's another possibility that I came up with. Perhaps there is something inherently inefficient about traveling through FTL for long periods of time, and traveling via relay into the Milky Way is much more efficient? Maybe direct transit will leave the Reapers starved of energy, and that will be reflected in some way in ME3? I guess we'll all have to wait for March before we can find out.

Outside of the universe, this does seem to be a plot hole though, and does need a definitive explanation. In-universe, however, any number of plausible reasons can explain why Sovereign bothered going through with the Saren-Conduit plot.