11 réponses à ce sujet

[jamesp81]

I can't believe I'm doing this, because I hated her at first.  I mean, really?  Butchering human caravans because you couldn't be bothered to check your facts?  Rude, unstable, full of rage, and who knows when she might decide to start killing shems for fun?  She embodies the very worst of Dalish racism.

Truth is though, when I consider where she's at as an individual (and not as a member of a Dalish clan) I just can't hate her anymore.  Exiled from her clan, consumed by a need for vengeance, sister kidnapped by darkspawn.  No one could go through all that and be sane.  She eventually faces what she's done and believes she's not even worthy of forgiveness.  While that might be true, that's not up to her anyway.  Still, it's a depressing place to be in as a person.  The whole situation is just really sad.

I really think this one is salvageable though.  I tried to be nice to her, which was difficult at times, because I think a kind word and a real friend might go a long way to start healing everything that's wrong with her.  And for those who demand that she face justice, let's remember that she's a Warden.  Dying peacefully in bed is generally not on the agenda for Wardens.

[GSSAGE7]

The problem with Velanna is that she's twice as much of a b as Morrigan, but with half of the character development.

[danteliveson]

GSSAGE7 wrote...

The problem with Velanna is that she's twice as much of a b as Morrigan, but with half of the character development.

Just like everyone in Awakening.

[ylaenna]

GSSAGE7 wrote...

The problem with Velanna is that she's twice as much of a b as Morrigan, but with half of the character development.

And not as pretty.

To OP: You're probably right, of course. I didn't really give Velanna the time of day; I was so annoyed with her I didn't even bother talking to her to raise her friendliness status.  But I admit this is more my own personality (not much patience with grown-ups who can't get a grip on their own issues) than any attempt at roleplaying or understanding. Maybe I'll try to roleplay a nice girl in another playthrough.

Modifié par ylaenna, 19 septembre 2011 - 07:38 .

[Satyricon331]

The DAO Codex had an entry that said emissaries could sometimes speak human language, while in DAA it seemed everyone thought talking darkspawn was unprecedented.  Either way, it seems plausible Velanna had never heard of talking, intelligent darkspawn, in which case it's not unreasonable for her not to have considered the darkspawn as an explanation (it's a bit analogous to us not considering talking, intelligent chimps as an explanation for something - although not quite as defensible since Thedas has magic).  So, I think her factual conclusion, while wrong, wasn't stupid like many people have said elsewhere (especially since she likely wouldn't be familiar with humans to know a weapons dump would by atypical behavior for them, etc.), and I can somewhat sympathize with her position even though there's little excuse other than mental illness for her attacks on innocent caravans.

Still, I think it's an extremely disturbing thought pattern for the OP (1) to be able to sympathize with her when thinking about her individually but (2) to be unable to do so when thinking about her as a member of her ethnicity.

Modifié par Satyricon331, 21 septembre 2011 - 05:21 .

[GSSAGE7]

If we take what Wynne says at face value, magic requires speech. So obviously, emissaries would have to be able talk, otherwise, no magic. But Awakened darkspawn talk, you know, intelligently. It's the difference between a human and a parrot.

[jamesp81]

Satyricon331 wrote...

The DAO Codex had an entry that said emissaries could sometimes speak human language, while in DAA it seemed everyone thought talking darkspawn was unprecedented.  Either way, it seems plausible Velanna had never heard of talking, intelligent darkspawn, in which case it's not unreasonable for her not to have considered the darkspawn as an explanation (it's a bit analogous to us not considering talking, intelligent chimps as an explanation for something - although not quite as defensible since Thedas has magic).  So, I think her factual conclusion, while wrong, wasn't stupid like many people have said elsewhere (especially since she likely wouldn't be familiar with humans to know a weapons dump would by atypical behavior for them, etc.), and I can somewhat sympathize with her position even though there's little excuse other than mental illness for her attacks on innocent caravans.

Still, I think it's an extremely disturbing thought pattern for the OP to be able to sympathize with her when thinking about her individually but to be unable to do so when thinking about her as a member of her ethnicity.

Individuals are more important than groups.

[Satyricon331]

jamesp81 wrote...
Individuals are more important than groups.

Which is exactly why those two judgments I mentioned shouldn't have differed; her ethnicity shouldn't affect your judgment.  But as long as you don't make such prejudiced judgments against actual people, I don't really care, so it's fine.

[jamesp81]

Satyricon331 wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...
Individuals are more important than groups.

Which is exactly why those two judgments I mentioned shouldn't have differed; her ethnicity shouldn't affect your judgment.  But as long as you don't make such prejudiced judgments against actual people, I don't really care, so it's fine.

You didn't mention two different judgments in your post.

The rest of your post is....ridiculous.  Do me the courtesy of keeping the false racism accusations out of this.

Modifié par jamesp81, 20 septembre 2011 - 07:26 .

[Satyricon331]

jamesp81 wrote...
You didn't mention two different judgments in your post.

The rest of your post is....ridiculous.  Do me the courtesy of keeping the false racism accusations out of this.

I did, and I've done you the courtesy of going back to number them.

And if someone who can fall into such thinking judges my posts "ridiculous," all the better for me.

edit: look, if your OP was about an actual ethnicity, it would have been racist.  Your willingness to share such thoughts suggested you were oblivious to that issue, which is why I flagged it.  If you don't want to admit it publicly, I'm fine with that - I'm even fine with you not admitting it to yourself, as long as you don't have such attitudes w/r/t to RL.  But it undermines your own credibility to say my post was "ridiculous," especially in such a conclusory fashion.

Modifié par Satyricon331, 21 septembre 2011 - 07:00 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Or you could just post your own personal opinion about Velanna instead of the OP.

[jamesp81]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Or you could just post your own personal opinion about Velanna instead of the OP.

Probably best to just not respond to him at all.  He's made up his mind about me and arguing the point will only get the thread locked or bans handed out.

Now, back on topic.....

My own worldview tells me that who a person is matters and their race does not.  She does, at least initially, represent some bad stereotypes about her people.  As you get to know her you realize just how damaged she is.  The whole situation is more sad than anything else.