29 réponses à ce sujet

[Queensilverwing]

Henesua Wrote:
I don't think a meaningful death has to be permadeath. The important factor is that the dying player give up something. Even if all that is given up is a nominal tax of XP and GP then I think at least with regards to game play death means something.

*Blinks slowly* Ah! Then we are in agreement *grins* consequences to our actions is just fine, and can work both ways, good and bad. Oh well then, now I understand, and am more than willing to pay the piper should I die through my own stupidity (well it really - has - to be through my own stupidity if I'm solo). I really hope I can play your module and soon!

Vives had a dirtnap league which publicly listed the death tally of each character on the website. I think that also works. For some it was a point of pride to have died a great deal. For others it was shameful.

I remember that about Vives

A herd of wild spiders takes you down... <herd?> Hush, Bother. I'm pontificating <snort> They drag you to their nest (I *really* like where you're going H :-). You're hurt, alone. What do you do next?

An interesting scenario you err both present. So, I'm surrounded by a Clutter of spiders *grins*. Well, I'm hurt, but I'm guessing that the spiders are not -that- hungry because they have not eaten me yet. Soooo, I play dead but ensure that I secret my small dagger just in case I need to cut myself out of some webbing. Playing dead also allows to me to conserve strength (hopefully!) and since it was day when the spiders attacked me, I'm also betting that they sleep or doze at night. I wait and keep a slitted eye out for an opportunity to escape stealthily...I really don't want to fight in my condition, but if I have to, perhaps I can take them by surprise.

*Grins wryly at the fanatical glint in his killer eyes*

- Old style... Sheesh, this is too hard... probably a dead end (pun intended) in the story... load last saved...
(The assumption is that the player bit off more than he can chew (DM error, actually) and that he needs to get back to the main plot thread to get anywhere)

Naa, that would be boring

- New style... Whoa. How the heck will I survive *this*? What a story it will make!
(The assumption is that the designer knows what he is doing and will not just throw the PC away for taking risks)

Yep, much more interesting, not to mention challenging *chuckles at his evilness*

You need mechanisms to recover from player excesses, both intentional and un. You need mechanisms that are contextual and consistent with your mythos. You need mechanisms that are unique, rewarding in and of themselves. You need players to identify and care about their character. Most of all, you need players to *enjoy* playing and not want to stop!

Let me toss a few ideas out:
- Inheritence... if the PC dies the final death <redundant!> the player gets a new character... but inherits both ability & goods from the deceased. The new character is not started from scratch, but given a huge boost as next of kin.

- Explicit death. Any time someone attempts to kill an intelligent being (NPC or PC), they will have to declare *explicitly* that they are commiting murder. This *will* have consequences, both public (*if* witnessed) and religious (the Gods participate in Amethyst ;-), not just for the murderer, but for the victim's friends, family and *matron diety*. Only named, plot NPCs will ever commit murder. Only terribly evil (griefers are in that category) PCs will commit murder.

- Divine intervention... How do you handle griefers? Personally? How about tracking murder? When a griefer is about to murder one of your eldest and most beloved PCs, what would happen if the appropriate Goddess manifested and shook her finger under his nose... with consequences? Hmmm, you *do* have mechanisms in place for "sensing" alignment actions and faction readjustments, right?

Hrmmm, must look up your PW Master Rolo Kipp, you are both quite interesting fellows...completely mad, but definitely interesting!

Modifié par Queensilverwing, 21 septembre 2011 - 07:01 .

[Rolo Kipp]

<chuckling...>

Queensilverwing wrote...

A herd of wild spiders takes you down... <herd?> Hush, Bother. I'm pontificating <snort> They drag you to their nest (I *really* like where you're going H :-). You're hurt, alone. What do you do next?

An interesting scenario you err both present.

My familiar, the Raven Wings-of-Shadow-Under-the-Vanguard-of-Storms (you can see why I call her Bother), makes a habit of snide <cynical> comments to keep me awake <humble>.

*Grins wryly at the fanatical glint in his killer eyes*

Hehe, she was actually talking about the glint in my killer's eyes. The last guy that killed me, what? twenty-thirty years ago?
<if it makes you feel better>
What? You weren't?
<...>
What are you trying to say?

Hrmmm, must look up your PW Master Rolo Kipp, you are both quite interesting fellows...completely mad, but definitely interesting!

<...at how great minds, or at least ravens & wyrms, think alike>

[Elhanan]

Remembering that NWN is not PnP, a smaller penalty for Death is pleasing as some forget that while my Rogue may be able to Dodge and Evade quickly on the field of battle, the Player may stall and freeze at the controls for reasons that are sometimes beyond one's control (eg; pizza burning in the oven, illness, upset children, storms, spouses, etc). If the penalty takes the Player out of the game, then I hold that this may be something that needs re-visited in the rules.

[Rolo Kipp]

<Striking a heroic pose...>

Elhanan wrote...
Remembering that NWN is not PnP, a smaller penalty for Death is pleasing as some forget that while my Rogue may be able to Dodge and Evade quickly on the field of battle, the Player may stall and freeze at the controls for reasons that are sometimes beyond one's control (eg; pizza burning in the oven, illness, upset children, storms, spouses, etc). If the penalty takes the Player out of the game, then I hold that this may be something that needs re-visited in the rules.

Completely and absolutely true. Well, not the size of the penalty for death, but the inappropriateness of trivial death in the gaming experience.

These are supposed to be heroic adventures, not some idle daydream of nymphs and honey and dappled shadows and <a-HEM!> er, idle daydreams that can be shattered by trivial and random chance! That robs death of its meaning, if not its sting.

To die *must* be a purposeful, meaningful act. To allow dying while AFK is... lazy, IMO.

<...ruined by the brandy snifter in one hand and the pipe in the other>

Modifié par Rolo Kipp, 21 septembre 2011 - 09:31 .

[WebShaman]

I view a lot of this really sadly.

Sooo many seem to have forgotten how to roleplay.

I really do not know how you all play your SP games. I really do not.

I like to play mine a bit roleplay-ish.

So...if I die, and get "respawned" - obviously respawning does not occur in RL, does it? So in a fantasy sense, I got brought back for some reason.

Now, here is where the RP comes into play! Now I can RP a number of different things, depending on where I got respawned and how I died!

So...if I get whacked by spiders...perhaps I did get dragged back to their lair...and they coccooned me.  I happened to keep my wits, and using a dagger, slowly, strand by strand, freed myself and slipped away as they were sleeping...

Sounds pretty good to me!

In one particular SP environment where I play, death is NOT possible in most areas - and there is a valid ingame reason for it. I really, really like this. And for important Bosses, it explains why they keep coming back, after being "vanquished" - because they cannot die, either. It is alot like the Land of Oz - where dying is not possible.

Nothing like a valid, ingame reason for respawns. Ingenious!

Modifié par WebShaman, 23 septembre 2011 - 09:23 .