176 réponses à ce sujet

[Siansonea]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

The reason why? Because people can't express their personal beliefs on the internet without someone else launching a personal attack for disagreeing and vice versa.

Oh yeah? Says you! That's so not true because...oh wait...

[Cutlass Jack]

Ferris95 wrote...
Or both.

Now I really want to see this. If for no other reason than the awkward conversation that happens when Femshep confronts Shepard about cheating on her with Sheploo.

[AnAccountWithNoName]

Comsky159 wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

Because if not for the force of law we'd all kill each other IRL, but one can't do that over the internet.

We're geeks!
Best we can do in reality is likely ****slap each other around a bit. The true power of nerdrage can only be manifested through the medium of the internet. 

So true, i don't think geeks have the guts to kill anyways.

[AnAccountWithNoName]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

The real question is: Why did you make this thread agian?

I made this thread because i was sick and tired of people flaming each other over how to implant S/S romance.  So i made this to try to show some "common sense", perhaps which could help beat down the flames. 

Modifié par AnAccountWithNoName, 20 septembre 2011 - 04:08 .

[BatmanPWNS]

Because we are human and we love to disagree with each other.

/end thread.

[Tonymac]

Siansonea II wrote...

I don't understand what the big deal is. If you don't like something, don't do it. I personally don't like xenophilic romances, except for asari who are physiologically compatible with other species due to their unique biology. But dextro-chiral alien romances especially don't make any sense to me, since the chemistry between them and humans is so different and hostile toward one another. The food of one is literally poison for the other. I would never do a romance with Garrus or Tali because of that complete lapse in basic logic that would have to take place in Shepard's and the LI's minds. It's just too farfetched for me. I might express that opinion on occasion, but I certainly wouldn't start an entire thread to discuss it. There's really not much to say about it.

And regardless, I would never suggest that BioWare take out alien romances, even though I dislike them. Why? Because other people LOVE them. And I can easily avoid them. Win-win.

So more players being more happy is more better to my way of thinking.

  The fact of that matter is - in decent public any contact beyond hand holding and a kiss on the cheek is considered bad taste.  Even acts of great passion were considered faux pas, with the exception of the end of the Great Wars - specificallly the sailor kissing a woman in New York the day WW2 ended.  That picture made headlines not only because of the end of WW2, but because it was the only time in decent society such an action was allowed.

  Now fast forward the timeline to the BSN - where we have people demanding to have homosexual acts and interactions in a video game.  Most of polite society does not accept such actions as the 'norm' - it is in fact far from normal - i.e. not approaching 50% of the population.

  The common decent man does not want any interaction of this type in his life - this is a question of choice.  One is either homosexual, bisexual, or heterosexual - but on a personal interaction level what you choose is not my business.  I feel that I may surround myself with peers of my own liking - but personally not to the degree of being a 'homophobe'.  Frankly, I do not care to know the sexual orientation of most individuals - it is not a topic of great interest to me.  What two consenting adults do in their free time is their business, however I ask that it not be shared with me, or forced upon me.

  That being said, I would prefer that the game that I choose to buy attempts to keep in line with what is considered good taste.  I am fully aware of the maturity rating of the game, however there is no 'homosexuality / bisexuality rating' or ESRB code that quantifies such things.  I have no desire to walk into the Crew's Mess of the Normandy and see some "Pulp Fiction - Zed vs Marsailles Wallace with a red rubber ball in his mouth" action going on - or to step into my own stateroom and hear "Duellling Banjos" blasting while Jacob in a Gimp suit jumps out of my bathroom.

  We can keep it clean, let it be known that this or that particular interaction takes one down a romance / bromance path.  All I ask is that there be no visions of unspeakable acts going on that I did not specifically click for - nothing on my monitor burning images into my brain or the sounds of pigs squealing in terror.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

The real question is: Why did you make this thread agian?

I made this thread because i was sick and tired of people flaming each other over how to implant S/S romance.  So i made this to try to show some "common sense", perhaps which could help beat down the flames. 

The cylce cannot be broken.

[Wereparrot]

ladyvader wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

ladyvader wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

It's not really an argument over 'straight' as I have yet to see anyone say a male Shepard shouldn't be able to romance all of the female LIs and vice versa for a straight FemShep with the male LIs.

Erhm, there's no one so far who has a problem with an LI being just gay or just lesbian.

Of course not.  Two women together is every straight man's fantasy. 

I'm hoping you're joking here...

I live in a very bigoted area.  And I've had many people tell me two women together they have no problem with.  They have issues with two men.  To me there is no difference.

 

There isn't. If I may assume that your 'bigoted' area is a Christian area, then I might also assume that these people read Leviticus but missed out Romans. Although Deuteronomy does say 'there shall be no wh0re of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel', so maybe they glossed over that too.

Modifié par Wereparrot, 20 septembre 2011 - 06:09 .

[imbeia]

it will be badly if after these all rows BW resign entirely from the option of any affairs - for the peace and quiet

[FoxHound109]

Tonymac wrote...

  The fact of that matter is - in decent public any contact beyond hand holding and a kiss on the cheek is considered bad taste.  Even acts of great passion were considered faux pas, with the exception of the end of the Great Wars - specificallly the sailor kissing a woman in New York the day WW2 ended.  That picture made headlines not only because of the end of WW2, but because it was the only time in decent society such an action was allowed.

  Now fast forward the timeline to the BSN - where we have people demanding to have homosexual acts and interactions in a video game.  Most of polite society does not accept such actions as the 'norm' - it is in fact far from normal - i.e. not approaching 50% of the population.

  The common decent man does not want any interaction of this type in his life - this is a question of choice.  One is either homosexual, bisexual, or heterosexual - but on a personal interaction level what you choose is not my business.  I feel that I may surround myself with peers of my own liking - but personally not to the degree of being a 'homophobe'.  Frankly, I do not care to know the sexual orientation of most individuals - it is not a topic of great interest to me.  What two consenting adults do in their free time is their business, however I ask that it not be shared with me, or forced upon me.

  That being said, I would prefer that the game that I choose to buy attempts to keep in line with what is considered good taste.  I am fully aware of the maturity rating of the game, however there is no 'homosexuality / bisexuality rating' or ESRB code that quantifies such things.  I have no desire to walk into the Crew's Mess of the Normandy and see some "Pulp Fiction - Zed vs Marsailles Wallace with a red rubber ball in his mouth" action going on - or to step into my own stateroom and hear "Duellling Banjos" blasting while Jacob in a Gimp suit jumps out of my bathroom.

  We can keep it clean, let it be known that this or that particular interaction takes one down a romance / bromance path.  All I ask is that there be no visions of unspeakable acts going on that I did not specifically click for - nothing on my monitor burning images into my brain or the sounds of pigs squealing in terror.

You do realize that "decent" and "polite" societial norms are not really universal, right? As an an anthropologist I can promise you that what is "decent" and "polite" societal norms varies wildly through time, geographical location, religious and spiritual influence, individuals, etc. Basically, your comment about societies is not really a supported point - especially because your use of the words "decent" and "polite" implies that only certain ideas fall under this category - not the least being because the game takes place in another reality, with a different time frame and a shift in social attitudes and norms. That's pretty much the entire gist of science-fiction as GOOD literature (and in any other medium that science-fiction is found): it's to create an alternate universe where the questions of how humanity and societies will evolve with time gets to be explored and answered. There is a reason why a game like Deus Ex: Human Revolution is so compelling in its story-telling: it's because the game deals with the subject of post-humanism and the question of the human condition evolving with the needs to a future society where priorities are shifting and changing.

Your point doesn't really holds water from an anthropological point of view, it doesn't hold much water from a literary point of view, and certainly holds no water from the standpoint of science-fiction writing as a form of art. If you personally feel that way, then by all means do so, but don't use "decent society" as any sort of concrete or valid debating point. 

Modifié par FoxHound109, 20 septembre 2011 - 06:39 .

[Blooddrunk1004]

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

The real question is: Why did you make this thread agian?

I made this thread because i was sick and tired of people flaming each other over how to implant S/S romance.  So i made this to try to show some "common sense", perhaps which could help beat down the flames. 

Common sense: You fail at it. Because if you would use it, you would discuss this on s/s thread that already exists, also in be4 lockdown.

[Omega4RelayResident]

Tonymac wrote...

  The fact of that matter is - in decent public any contact beyond hand holding and a kiss on the cheek is considered bad taste.  Even acts of great passion were considered faux pas, with the exception of the end of the Great Wars - specificallly the sailor kissing a woman in New York the day WW2 ended.  That picture made headlines not only because of the end of WW2, but because it was the only time in decent society such an action was allowed.

 
What exactly is decent public? Things vary... regionally. I go to the Village in NYC from time to time to go to a show, bar, art exhibit, or for business... I swear to you I would not be surprised if I saw two people making love in public by going here. Its 2011... the "Leave it to Beaver" era is over... its been over and its not comming back. As far as decent public... I see emo teenagers cursing off the elderly and act like jackasses everyday of their life. There is no decency left. Useless parents of the 90's have allowed their kids to run amuck and do whatever and say whatever they want.

 

Now fast forward the timeline to the BSN - where we have people demanding to have homosexual acts and interactions in a video game.  Most of polite society does not accept such actions as the 'norm' - it is in fact far from normal - i.e. not approaching 50% of the population.

 
Once again it is regional. I do not see too much of polite society anywhere. In the suburbs people dont mind their own business and constantly gossip behind eachothers backs. In the city either you are running things because you take charge of situations, or you are an artist which means that anything goes. There is no such thing as "true polite society" just varying degrees of society. Everyone is rude in their own way. These differences are acceptable in some places and frowned upon in others.

 

The common decent man does not want any interaction of this type in his life - this is a question of choice.  One is either homosexual, bisexual, or heterosexual - but on a personal interaction level what you choose is not my business.  I feel that I may surround myself with peers of my own liking - but personally not to the degree of being a 'homophobe'.  Frankly, I do not care to know the sexual orientation of most individuals - it is not a topic of great interest to me.  What two consenting adults do in their free time is their business, however I ask that it not be shared with me, or forced upon me.

 
This statement makes sense except for one part. The part where it contradicts it self with modern society. I do not think anyone is forcing a lifestyle on you. However if you are talking about immagery of other people lifestyle exhibited then you are asking for a fools wish. That means you dont want intimacy in song lyrics, movies, games, books, and the news. Modern day media constantly exhibits the personal life of people. Shows about the private lives of celebrities, and reality TV shows counter act your wishes. Reality TV exhibits a majority of people's personal intimate behavior and tests the borderline of being refered to as sexually explicit. I can understand the fact that you do not wish to see these things but in the modern day media it is trully unavoidable. 

As a sidenote I want to add that if you have ever watched pornography with the intention of watching it then this statement you made is hypocritical. Its explicit sexual behavior between persons and it is exhibited for no other reason than exhibiting it. I am not making assumptions about your lifestye... I was just saying IF you ever did then the statement is a hypocracy. Then you are using a bias argument because you feel someone might be forcing upon you material that is not within your taste.

 

That being said, I would prefer that the game that I choose to buy attempts to keep in line with what is considered good taste.  I am fully aware of the maturity rating of the game, however there is no 'homosexuality / bisexuality rating' or ESRB code that quantifies such things.  I have no desire to walk into the Crew's Mess of the Normandy and see some "Pulp Fiction - Zed vs Marsailles Wallace with a red rubber ball in his mouth" action going on - or to step into my own stateroom and hear "Duellling Banjos" blasting while Jacob in a Gimp suit jumps out of my bathroom.

  We can keep it clean, let it be known that this or that particular interaction takes one down a romance / bromance path.  All I ask is that there be no visions of unspeakable acts going on that I did not specifically click for - nothing on my monitor burning images into my brain or the sounds of pigs squealing in terror.

In the game you have a choice on what to do. BioWare is not forcing anything on you. You also have a choice not to buy the game if it offends you so much. Asking to censor a game experience for your own personal taste is selfish. The Majority... yes I said Majority.... of the community either: does not care about; knows how to avoid; or wants as content in thir game. I am a straight man with no inclinations towards homosexuality, I understand that I am in full control of my game experience and I know how to avoid the situation. I feel it is rude, selfish, and wrong to take content out of a game that does in fact appeal to some people. Similar content is forced upon the viewers in books, movies, and TV and it wins Oscars and Golden Globes.

If it is forced upon you in a movie, but given to you as a choice in the game... literally there should be no argument about it on these forums. I believe that a small portion of the community is trying to force their values upon a larger portion that doesnt care, wont let it affect them, or prefers to have the content available to them.

The people that are that angry with this to the point of wanting to make everyones life and forum experience miserable need to delete their accounts and not purchase ME3. I do not feel that you are one of those people and you seem intelligent enough to know... that the game does not force you to be one way or another. You chose your path in game. There are people out there that bring this issue up in rude and hatefull ways that bothers the entire community as a whole and they need to leave the community in order to respect the community as a whole.

I have serious issues with Religion... yet I dont go around trying to force my beliefs and agenda down peoples throats. I respect everyone on here enough to know they are happy with their choices.

Modifié par Omega4RelayResident, 20 septembre 2011 - 06:51 .

[Fidget6]

Xilizhra wrote...

Because the first group is riddled with genuine homophobes using the pretense of tolerance as a smokescreen. They rather blur together.

What a bunch of crap. I'm gay and I would fit in the first group. I would prefer to have new characters be s/s options (or at least only make a previously non-romancable character like Kasumi be a bi option.) I think I would feel cheated out of having a romance for the past two games if say Kaidan was bi. Plus, why would he wait all that time to show ANY indication whatsoever if he had any sort of feelings for you up until that point? To me, it would break immersion and be silly fanservice like the DA2 "EVERYONE is bi now!" approach. I'm so sick of everyone screaming "homophobe!" so quickly just because someone looks at things differently than you. You want people to be more open-minded? Open YOUR mind a little every once in awhile.

[Wereparrot]

imbeia wrote...

it will be badly if after these all rows BW resign entirely from the option of any affairs - for the peace and quiet

That would be a bad thing? Romances aren't necessary anyway. I wouldn't miss them.

[imbeia]

Wereparrot wrote...

imbeia wrote...

it will be badly if after these all rows BW resign entirely from the option of any affairs - for the peace and quiet

That would be a bad thing? Romances aren't necessary anyway. I wouldn't miss them.

I would miss

[JessJohn]

I personally don't see the big deal. If Bioware want to make all romances available for both genders then so be. Not a problem with me. Im not a gamer who's a fuss pot about it. I made my fem shepard romance Liara and that's what Im sticking with til the end. At the end of the day you don't have to romance anyone. Its all optional. Why are people making such a big deal over what is considered extra content of the games?

[nelly21]

Civil war? Really?

It's more like 5 or 6 people who are pissed, the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of people who don't care either way and the dozen or so who are in favor.

I really don't care. I'm glad the option will be in there for the people that wanted it though. More content for more people is never a bad thing I think.

[Gabriel S.]

BatmanPWNS wrote...

Because we are human and we love to disagree with each other.

/end thread.

After about 100 pages or so, I'll quote this with the punch line "EPIC FAIL!":police:

[Tonymac]

FoxHound109 wrote...

Tonymac wrote...

  The fact of that matter is - in decent public any contact beyond hand holding and a kiss on the cheek is considered bad taste.  Even acts of great passion were considered faux pas, with the exception of the end of the Great Wars - specificallly the sailor kissing a woman in New York the day WW2 ended.  That picture made headlines not only because of the end of WW2, but because it was the only time in decent society such an action was allowed.

  Now fast forward the timeline to the BSN - where we have people demanding to have homosexual acts and interactions in a video game.  Most of polite society does not accept such actions as the 'norm' - it is in fact far from normal - i.e. not approaching 50% of the population.

  The common decent man does not want any interaction of this type in his life - this is a question of choice.  One is either homosexual, bisexual, or heterosexual - but on a personal interaction level what you choose is not my business.  I feel that I may surround myself with peers of my own liking - but personally not to the degree of being a 'homophobe'.  Frankly, I do not care to know the sexual orientation of most individuals - it is not a topic of great interest to me.  What two consenting adults do in their free time is their business, however I ask that it not be shared with me, or forced upon me.

  That being said, I would prefer that the game that I choose to buy attempts to keep in line with what is considered good taste.  I am fully aware of the maturity rating of the game, however there is no 'homosexuality / bisexuality rating' or ESRB code that quantifies such things.  I have no desire to walk into the Crew's Mess of the Normandy and see some "Pulp Fiction - Zed vs Marsailles Wallace with a red rubber ball in his mouth" action going on - or to step into my own stateroom and hear "Duellling Banjos" blasting while Jacob in a Gimp suit jumps out of my bathroom.

  We can keep it clean, let it be known that this or that particular interaction takes one down a romance / bromance path.  All I ask is that there be no visions of unspeakable acts going on that I did not specifically click for - nothing on my monitor burning images into my brain or the sounds of pigs squealing in terror.

You do realize that "decent" and "polite" societial norms are not really universal, right? As an an anthropologist I can promise you that what is "decent" and "polite" societal norms varies wildly through time, geographical location, religious and spiritual influence, individuals, etc. Basically, your comment about societies is not really a supported point - especially because your use of the words "decent" and "polite" implies that only certain ideas fall under this category - not the least being because the game takes place in another reality, with a different time frame and a shift in social attitudes and norms. That's pretty much the entire gist of science-fiction as GOOD literature (and in any other medium that science-fiction is found): it's to create an alternate universe where the questions of how humanity and societies will evolve with time gets to be explored and answered. There is a reason why a game like Deus Ex: Human Revolution is so compelling in its story-telling: it's because the game deals with the subject of post-humanism and the question of the human condition evolving with the needs to a future society where priorities are shifting and changing.

Your point doesn't really holds water from an anthropological point of view, it doesn't hold much water from a literary point of view, and certainly holds no water from the standpoint of science-fiction writing as a form of art. If you personally feel that way, then by all means do so, but don't use "decent society" as any sort of concrete or valid debating point. 

FoxHound109 ,

  I get that  decent and polite as societal norms have changed throughout history and various regions.  If anything, we know that the Romans were, shall we say, far above and beyond open in their .....  relationships - and as to what was considered polite and decent.  I was not debating that.  All that I am really asking in my post is that the game provides for choice.  I even tried to do so in an amusing fashion.

  Whatever point of view you may want to take; anthropologically, literally, literarily, or even science fiction wise there are still norms for what we define decent and polite as.  Try and warp the definitions of those words as much as you care to - their meaning still has merit.  Webster's will attest to that both as a rescource and an institution.  

  There is also a counterpoint to my argument - one that is fairly hidden.  I am not judging anyone's lifestyle.  The choices that the player makes in the game are their own - and I have no issue whatsoever with that.  All I am really asking is that these options be clearly set up so that  people know they are making a romance choice and do not head down that path by accident.  If this is accomplished, then the norms of decent and polite are followed, are they not?

[Tonymac]

Omega4RelayResident wrote...

Ok, first off, I love the name.  It reminds me of my profile pic a bit.

Tonymac wrote...

  The fact of that matter is - in decent public any contact beyond hand holding and a kiss on the cheek is considered bad taste.  Even acts of great passion were considered faux pas, with the exception of the end of the Great Wars - specificallly the sailor kissing a woman in New York the day WW2 ended.  That picture made headlines not only because of the end of WW2, but because it was the only time in decent society such an action was allowed.

 

"What exactly is decent public? Things vary... regionally. I go to the Village in NYC from time to time to go to a show, bar, art exhibit, or for business... I swear to you I would not be surprised if I saw two people making love in public by going here. Its 2011... the "Leave it to Beaver" era is over... its been over and its not comming back. As far as decent public... I see emo teenagers cursing off the elderly and act like jackasses everyday of their life. There is no decency left. Useless parents of the 90's have allowed their kids to run amuck and do whatever and say whatever they want. "

 

Now fast forward the timeline to the BSN - where we have people demanding to have homosexual acts and interactions in a video game.  Most of polite society does not accept such actions as the 'norm' - it is in fact far from normal - i.e. not approaching 50% of the population.

 
"Once again it is regional. I do not see too much of polite society anywhere. In the suburbs people dont mind their own business and constantly gossip behind eachothers backs. In the city either you are running things because you take charge of situations, or you are an artist which means that anything goes. There is no such thing as "true polite society" just varying degrees of society. Everyone is rude in their own way. These differences are acceptable in some places and frowned upon in others." 


Just because teenagers act like hooligans does not mean that we have to stoop to their level.  A good portion of the gaming population is approximately my age.  Decent and polite still have meaning - even if it is no longer the norm for them.  Trust me - they will learn their manners before too long as they grow up.  I did, after all.  I also understand that what is considered as decent and polite have changed throughout history and vary on a regional basis.

The common decent man does not want any interaction of this type in his life - this is a question of choice.  One is either homosexual, bisexual, or heterosexual - but on a personal interaction level what you choose is not my business.  I feel that I may surround myself with peers of my own liking - but personally not to the degree of being a 'homophobe'.  Frankly, I do not care to know the sexual orientation of most individuals - it is not a topic of great interest to me.  What two consenting adults do in their free time is their business, however I ask that it not be shared with me, or forced upon me.

 
"This statement makes sense except for one part. The part where it contradicts it self with modern society. I do not think anyone is forcing a lifestyle on you. However if you are talking about immagery of other people lifestyle exhibited then you are asking for a fools wish. That means you dont want intimacy in song lyrics, movies, games, books, and the news. Modern day media constantly exhibits the personal life of people. Shows about the private lives of celebrities, and reality TV shows counter act your wishes. Reality TV exhibits a majority of people's personal intimate behavior and tests the borderline of being refered to as sexually explicit. I can understand the fact that you do not wish to see these things but in the modern day media it is trully unavoidable. 

As a sidenote I want to add that if you have ever watched pornography with the intention of watching it then this statement you made is hypocritical. Its explicit sexual behavior between persons and it is exhibited for no other reason than exhibiting it. I am not making assumptions about your lifestye... I was just saying IF you ever did then the statement is a hypocracy. Then you are using a bias argument because you feel someone might be forcing upon you material that is not within your taste." 

 Actually, the point lies more along the lines of I don't care what you choose as a player - I only want to see that the decisions for romance paths be clearly marked so that one does not happen down the wrong path with a character interraction.  It does not matter if I watch porn or not - all I am asking for here is that if I click on a certain choice that it is clearly defined if it heads down one of those paths.  The romance scenes are hardly porn as I would define it (in game) - yet all I desire here is that no 'digital sci-fi porn' be happening that I did not expressly choose.  This can benefit either side of the coin - no one is offended on either side of the fence in this manner.

 

That being said, I would prefer that the game that I choose to buy attempts to keep in line with what is considered good taste.  I am fully aware of the maturity rating of the game, however there is no 'homosexuality / bisexuality rating' or ESRB code that quantifies such things.  I have no desire to walk into the Crew's Mess of the Normandy and see some "Pulp Fiction - Zed vs Marsailles Wallace with a red rubber ball in his mouth" action going on - or to step into my own stateroom and hear "Duellling Banjos" blasting while Jacob in a Gimp suit jumps out of my bathroom.

  We can keep it clean, let it be known that this or that particular interaction takes one down a romance / bromance path.  All I ask is that there be no visions of unspeakable acts going on that I did not specifically click for - nothing on my monitor burning images into my brain or the sounds of pigs squealing in terror.

"In the game you have a choice on what to do. BioWare is not forcing anything on you. You also have a choice not to buy the game if it offends you so much. Asking to censor a game experience for your own personal taste is selfish. The Majority... yes I said Majority.... of the community either: does not care about; knows how to avoid; or wants as content in thir game. I am a straight man with no inclinations towards homosexuality, I understand that I am in full control of my game experience and I know how to avoid the situation. I feel it is rude, selfish, and wrong to take content out of a game that does in fact appeal to some people. Similar content is forced upon the viewers in books, movies, and TV and it wins Oscars and Golden Globes.

If it is forced upon you in a movie, but given to you as a choice in the game... literally there should be no argument about it on these forums. I believe that a small portion of the community is trying to force their values upon a larger portion that doesnt care, wont let it affect them, or prefers to have the content available to them.

The people that are that angry with this to the point of wanting to make everyones life and forum experience miserable need to delete their accounts and not purchase ME3. I do not feel that you are one of those people and you seem intelligent enough to know... that the game does not force you to be one way or another. You chose your path in game. There are people out there that bring this issue up in rude and hatefull ways that bothers the entire community as a whole and they need to leave the community in order to respect the community as a whole.

I have serious issues with Religion... yet I dont go around trying to force my beliefs and agenda down peoples throats. I respect everyone on here enough to know they are happy with their choices.

"

  Ok, for one - we are not taking a religious stance here.  It has nothing to do with the game.  It is a whole new set of personal choices and usually ends in conflict.   There is plenty of History to support this - on and off of the forums.

  Now, back to our discussion!  Have you played the game and had Tali Zorah (or any of the other characters) seem to imply that they thought you were hitting on them?  To me that was out of the blue.  I like Tali - she is awesome!  However, I did not feel that I had made choices that were leading into a romance with her.  All I had to say was "You deserved better." and the game considered that a romance option.  I understand that the writers and developers wanted to put that into the game to add a level of interaction.  It's a great idea.  However, I am asking that in ME3 that these interactions be more clearly defined, thats all.  I feel that hiding the true intent is a deception - and that is a means of forcing a reaction or an interaction.  All I want here is these paths to be clearly defined. 

  I have chosen my argument specifically with the point of taking both sides into view.  No one on either side of the fence is harmed or insulted or even offended (as I see it) if romance options are clearly marked.  This should apply for all romance options regardless of gender or sexual preference.  In this manner, if a player opts for a relationship they know clearly if it is heading down a path of romance.  In this manner I could (for instance) be a pal with Garrus or Jacob or Kaiden, but not be heading into, shall we say, uncomfortable territory.  This would avoid unpleasantries before they occur.  I also feel that this is in no way limiting anyone from their personal choices. 

[FoxHound109]

First off, I apologize if my post came off as attacking you. As anthropologist, I get irked easily by things like this. 

Tonymac wrote...

FoxHound109 ,

  I get that  decent and polite as societal norms have changed throughout history and various regions.  If anything, we know that the Romans were, shall we say, far above and beyond open in their .....  relationships - and as to what was considered polite and decent.  I was not debating that.  All that I am really asking in my post is that the game provides for choice.  I even tried to do so in an amusing fashion.

  Whatever point of view you may want to take; anthropologically, literally, literarily, or even science fiction wise there are still norms for what we define decent and polite as.  Try and warp the definitions of those words as much as you care to - their meaning still has merit.  Webster's will attest to that both as a rescource and an institution.

I am actually not saying that societal norms don't exist. They do. They just vary greatly and evolve. My general point is that you can't fairly ask that Mass Effect, a game in a made up universe in a distant future, adheres to all the societal norms you have come to expect from your own cultural upbringing. For example, your comment about kissing not being acceptable in public: that's debatable, to be honest. But let's pretend for a second that this was true of all western society. It doesn't mean that it can't change, that these characters can't inhabit a future where public displays of affection are prefectly accepted in their respective societies. 

 There is also a counterpoint to my argument - one that is fairly hidden.  I am not judging anyone's lifestyle.  The choices that the player makes in the game are their own - and I have no issue whatsoever with that.  All I am really asking is that these options be clearly set up so that  people know they are making a romance choice and do not head down that path by accident.  If this is accomplished, then the norms of decent and polite are followed, are they not?

I think that's less about norms and more about gameplay design. If you end up being ninjamanced in a video game it's not about the social norms surrounding it but about bad gameplay mechanics from the designers. I'm not talking about the "no ******" issue people seem to have, I'm talking in general. Nobody should be ninjamanced by characters they aren't interested in. I shouldn't have my manShep get ninjamanced by Ashley when I role play him as gay, just as I shouldn't have my femShep get ninjamanced by Jacob when I role play her as someone who would have better taste than to date Jacob. ;]

[Valdrane78]

Because people on the internet in general are ****s, and lash out if you don't agree with them 100%!

[Kaiser Shepard]

FoxHound109 wrote...

I shouldn't have my manShep get ninjamanced by Ashley when I role play him as gay, just as I shouldn't have my femShep get ninjamanced by Jacob when I role play her as someone who would have better taste than to date Jacob. ;]

Ah yes, because guys hitting on girls and vice versa doesn't happen all the time, and obviously isn't the norm. And what exactly do you mean with "would have a better taste than to date Jacob"? 

Also, I can't help but chuckle everytime I see you saying "as an antropologist".

[Xilizhra]

Ah yes, because guys hitting on girls and vice versa doesn't happen all the time, and obviously isn't the norm.

But is similarly unpleasant for some people. If the goal is to not make anyone uncomfortable, why not remove that ninjamancing?