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[who would know]

Even if looks did matter, which they do not, the lineup for that would stretch all the way around the block.



In all seriousness, I was ready for a Vorcha squad member. I think I wanted to rebel against the game's patent presentation of them as nothing more than slobbering, slimy villains.

Modifié par who would know, 08 décembre 2011 - 02:31 .

[Random citizen]

@who would know

So whats your take and thoughts on the possibility and desirability of polyamorous relationships in ME3?

[jeweledleah]

Random citizen wrote...

While I understand that the topic is one that some of you have problems with taking seriously, but lets make an effort shall we?

I stopped taking you seriously when you called going from aknowledged and stated monogamy to polyamory "a character development" 

[Random citizen]

jeweledleah wrote...

Random citizen wrote...

While I understand that the topic is one that some of you have problems with taking seriously, but lets make an effort shall we?

I stopped taking you seriously when you called going from aknowledged and stated monogamy to polyamory "a character development" 

Poor choice of words from me.

If you let me clearify. Most people that are polyamorous (which BTW most people seem to be in one way or another - if we use the term in a wider and sloppier sense) have lived in monogamous relationship, bevause that is what most society expects and stipulate as "normal and acceptable" behaviour.( And yet a lot of people cheat on their partners - which is a bad thing as cheating is about betraying trust).
But the point is that some people realize (after som event or chain of events in ther lives) that they do not have to engage in relationships acording to this normative and predifined  "me- or him/her" model. There are more options then what we are usualy told about. They come to the conclution that it is not wrong to love or be interested in more then one peson if you are honest in your dealings with others, respect them and are able to formulate the rules of your relationship together in a constructive way (not import a predefined normative and prepacked stadard which monogamy often is).

Modifié par Random citizen, 08 décembre 2011 - 05:45 .

[Labrev]

who would know wrote...

In all seriousness, I was ready for a Vorcha squad member. I think I wanted to rebel against the game's patent presentation of them as nothing more than slobbering, slimy villains.

Sadly, it's more plausible than the new-species squadmate we'll be getting.

[jeweledleah]

Random citizen wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

Random citizen wrote...

While I understand that the topic is one that some of you have problems with taking seriously, but lets make an effort shall we?

I stopped taking you seriously when you called going from aknowledged and stated monogamy to polyamory "a character development" 

Poor choice of words from me.

If you let me clearify. Most people that are polyamorous (which BTW most people seem to be in one way or another - if we use the term in a wider and sloppier sense) have lived in monogamous relationship, bevause that is what most society expects and stipulate as "normal and acceptable" behaviour.( And yet a lot of people cheat on their partners - which is a bad thing as cheating is about betraying trust).
But the point is that some people realize (after som event or chain of events in ther lives) that they do not have to engage in relationships acording to this normative and predifined  "me- or him/her" model. There are more options then what we are usualy told about. They come to the conclution that it is not wrong to love or be interested in more then one peson if you are honest in your dealings with others, respect them and are able to formulate the rules of your relationship together in a constructive way (not import a predefined normative and prepacked stadard which monogamy often is).

except its pretty obvious that so far the only person who was shown to be that way?  is Shepard.  or are you trying to claim that these characters that we have met, don't know their own minds and how they feel about jealousy?  because their "him/her or me" mentality is just that - jealousy.  they do not want to share Shepard.  they made it pretty clear.  so no, it woudln't be a believable character development for them.

furthermore - people who cheat on their partners are rarely if ever truly polyamorous.  at best - they are serial monogamists (which is what most people ACTUALY are).  and I'm getting sick and tired of people trying to villanize the more standard relationships - some of us CHOSE them, becasue its what we want.

in addition - poly relationships are tough enough to handle in real life.  people manage, but its not easy.  handling it in game?  there was one poly relationship that was attempted in bioware games that I know of - in Jade empire.  and it was skimmed over still.  faded to black.  Mass Effect team have shown that they have trouble dealing with monogamous relationship development, edding another person to the mix? oy.

lastly - the voice recording for ME3 is finished.  so this thread is a pointless exercise in what ifs.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 08 décembre 2011 - 06:27 .

[Random citizen]

jeweledleah wrote...

Random citizen wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

Random citizen wrote...

While I understand that the topic is one that some of you have problems with taking seriously, but lets make an effort shall we?

I stopped taking you seriously when you called going from aknowledged and stated monogamy to polyamory "a character development" 

Poor choice of words from me.

If you let me clearify. Most people that are polyamorous (which BTW most people seem to be in one way or another - if we use the term in a wider and sloppier sense) have lived in monogamous relationship, bevause that is what most society expects and stipulate as "normal and acceptable" behaviour.( And yet a lot of people cheat on their partners - which is a bad thing as cheating is about betraying trust).
But the point is that some people realize (after som event or chain of events in ther lives) that they do not have to engage in relationships acording to this normative and predifined  "me- or him/her" model. There are more options then what we are usualy told about. They come to the conclution that it is not wrong to love or be interested in more then one peson if you are honest in your dealings with others, respect them and are able to formulate the rules of your relationship together in a constructive way (not import a predefined normative and prepacked stadard which monogamy often is).

except its pretty obvious that so far the only person who was shown to be that way?  is Shepard.  or are you trying to claim that these characters that we have met, don't know their own minds and how they feel about jealousy? 
because their "him/her or me" mentality is just that - jealousy.  they do not want to share Shepard.  they made it pretty clear.  so no, it woudln't be a believable character development for them.

furthermore - people who cheat on their partners are rarely if ever truly polyamorous.  at best - they are serial monogamists (which is what most people ACTUALY are).  and I'm getting sick and tired of people trying to villanize the more standard relationships - some of us CHOSE them, becasue its what we want.

in addition - poly relationships are tough enough to handle in real life.  people manage, but its not easy.  handling it in game?  there was one poly relationship that was attempted in bioware games that I know of - in Jade empire.  and it was skimmed over still.  faded to black.  Mass Effect team have shown that they have trouble dealing with monogamous relationship development, edding another person to the mix? oy.

lastly - the voice recording for ME3 is finished.  so this thread is a pointless exercise in what ifs.

Alright.

1. What I am suggesting is that people and their disposition sometimes change over time. I agree that it would be strange and even riduculus if all LIs was interested in "sharing", but some people do actually get used to the idea.
Of course it would not be appropriate to desplay such a shift in an instant, it would probably require both time, dialouge and having the right history and the relations with those involved (such as them being romanced in ME1 and ME2). As for jealousy, yes, there is always a risk for such feelings but they should not be exagerated. Any eventual jealousy is not exclusive to being "contained within" the relationship and does not automaticaly go away just because someone gets rejected. It would seem strange that all the characters that have been in a caring relationship with shepard by default would choose not to be with him/her over not being the exclusive love interest.

2. I was bringing up the example of people who cheat (or otherwhise have an "illegitime" interest in others) as an example of how people often are interested in more then one person. That is because you get differnt things from diffrent relations. Different people often enrich and "complete" you in differnt ways (which I guess is even more true in a multi-racial universe such as ME)

3. Its a challange no doubt. They would probanly really need to test their skill.

4 GROUNDBREAKING DLC!!!!

Modifié par Random citizen, 08 décembre 2011 - 06:59 .

[jeweledleah]

some people get used to a lot of ideas, just to keep the one they love. doesn't mean they are happy about it. case in point, I know of a couple where the guy is monogamous while the girl is Poly. becasue he wants her happy he tolerates a certain degree of outside relationships for her (mostly of a lighter sort), but he himself is not interested in anyone other then her. I don't know how long they can last that way. you can take a monogamous person and maybe possibly eventually cajole them into letting you have other partners, but its not their preference. they are not doing it becasue it makes THEM happy. they are doing it because its what YOU want.

Jealousy is an inherently human emotion. we have to actively work on NOT feeling it. even in poly relationships where more then one partner is actually poly - jealousy tends to rear its ugly head and needs to be dealt with on regular basis.

what you are proposing is... lets be honest here, is fulfilling a fantasy of a threesome, NOT actual poly relationship.

[BatmanPWNS]

How hardcore are BSN gonna go?

One is enough. Don't need so many.

[Ryzaki]

I would like a poly relationship...but it would have to be with new LIs. Because save Liara all the other Lis are way too catty and terrortrial (even when Shep's not interested in a relationship!. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 08 décembre 2011 - 07:45 .

[Random citizen]

Ryzaki wrote...

I would like a poly relationship...but it would have to be with new LIs. Because save Liara all the other Lis are way too catty and terrortrial (even when Shep's not interested in a relationship!. 

It may be because there is no way to talk with them about it. like:
-Why they think they feel like that, -what if this where to happen, -Have you thought about it like this, -"you know our history", -" you know I love you both and ending it with eith or you would not change my feelings" etc
I guess most people wuold not want their partners to lie to themselvs or "amputate themselves emotionaly" and just pretend that "you are the only one I love".

The ME storyline does det up this type of problem, especially if your LI was Liara in ME and you romanced someone else because she basically rejects you up untill LOTSB. A similar love triangle can form if your LI was Ash, but unless she has changed a lot over the last years, she is very much monocentric (it might have to do with her religious upbringing/views).

[Random citizen]

jeweledleah wrote...

some people get used to a lot of ideas, just to keep the one they love. doesn't mean they are happy about it. case in point, I know of a couple where the guy is monogamous while the girl is Poly. becasue he wants her happy he tolerates a certain degree of outside relationships for her (mostly of a lighter sort), but he himself is not interested in anyone other then her. I don't know how long they can last that way. you can take a monogamous person and maybe possibly eventually cajole them into letting you have other partners, but its not their preference. they are not doing it becasue it makes THEM happy. they are doing it because its what YOU want.

Jealousy is an inherently human emotion. we have to actively work on NOT feeling it. even in poly relationships where more then one partner is actually poly - jealousy tends to rear its ugly head and needs to be dealt with on regular basis.

what you are proposing is... lets be honest here, is fulfilling a fantasy of a threesome, NOT actual poly relationship.

I am sorry if your friend will get hurt. Sometimes things dont work out. Perhaps he loves her more then he is annoyed by her making out with others, Pehaps he thinks it is better to be with her sometimes then to not be with her at all. Perhaps her allowed interest in others keeps her from loosing interest in her relationship with your friend, or perhaps it is somthing else going on entierly.. The point is I dont know, and you dont seem to know either.

If they have talked about it in an honest and open way, and if they respect (and possibly deeply love) one another they know. That is what important.

I dont think it is for me or you to judge them, neither is it wise to treat their relationship with suspicion just because it is different or not according to our personal preferences. If you do know, however, that the relationship is tearing on him, then you should encuroge him to end or re-negotiate its conditions.

Yes, jealousy is an human emotion (seem to be present in one for or another in other mamals too) but let us not make declarations on how people must feel (otherwhise it is "unnatural" or whatever) or that it is always so strong that it must mess up non-monogamous relatinships. I have personal experience that proves such conclusions wrong.

What I am proposing can take many forms but it is an expressen of a character who apearntly loves more then one person (In my maleshep playthrough it is Liara and Tali, in my Femshep playthrough it is Kaidan and Garrus)
not having to choose. It is possible that such a storyline would not result in threesomes and its even thinkable that one of the poly LIs could have other LIs beside Shepard, (but due to complexity reasons it seems even more unlikely then just keeping this within those already involved in the romantic plots we seen)

Modifié par Random citizen, 08 décembre 2011 - 08:23 .

[jeweledleah]

I'm sorry, but most of the times - you HAVE to chose. and that relationship I was speaking of? I have no idea if they are even still together, we have lost touch over the years, but i can tell you one thing - relationship requires for all participants to have their needs filled.

a lot of times when people cheat, they don't cheat becasue they want to love more then one person. they cheat because their needs are not being filled in their current relationship, be it sexual fetish, emotional support, or pretty much anything that's needed for their contentment... and lacking.

you can convinced someone to try to share, but you cannot make them be happy about it.

Jealousy can mess up any relationship - monogamous or otherwise. but in monogamous relationship, you only have 2 people to figure out. the more people you add to the equation - the more complex it gets, and while it can work out and for some - it does, its still a factor you cannot simply dismiss becasue you refuse to make a choice.

LI's we have met so far are NOT poly. accept it. stop trying to find excuses why they can be. they themselves have said that they are not going to share. its tragic for your Shepards that they are in love with more then one person. but if they don't make that choice - they will make BOTH of them and in the end - themselves unhappy.

[Demonique]

Only if my Shepard can have both Garrus and Wrex or Grunt or, even better, all three

[Xilizhra]

LI's we have met so far are NOT poly. accept it. stop trying to find excuses why they can be. they themselves have said that they are not going to share. its tragic for your Shepards that they are in love with more then one person. but if they don't make that choice - they will make BOTH of them and in the end - themselves unhappy.

I think Liara's said otherwise.

[jeweledleah]

Xilizhra wrote...

LI's we have met so far are NOT poly. accept it. stop trying to find excuses why they can be. they themselves have said that they are not going to share. its tragic for your Shepards that they are in love with more then one person. but if they don't make that choice - they will make BOTH of them and in the end - themselves unhappy.

I think Liara's said otherwise.

I did mention Liara and Kelly as possible exceptions in my earlier posts.  although even Liara starts getting territorial in ME2.

[Xilizhra]

jeweledleah wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

LI's we have met so far are NOT poly. accept it. stop trying to find excuses why they can be. they themselves have said that they are not going to share. its tragic for your Shepards that they are in love with more then one person. but if they don't make that choice - they will make BOTH of them and in the end - themselves unhappy.

I think Liara's said otherwise.

I did mention Liara and Kelly as possible exceptions in my earlier posts.  although even Liara starts getting territorial in ME2.

How convenient, they're the ones who I want and the only ones I'd find it believable for (interesting that Kelly's and Liara's romance's can exist simultaneously with no harm to either in ME2).

[Random citizen]

jeweledleah wrote...

I'm sorry, but most of the times - you HAVE to chose. and that relationship I was speaking of? I have no idea if they are even still together, we have lost touch over the years, but i can tell you one thing - relationship requires for all participants to have their needs filled.

Yes, you always need to make decisions, but my point is that its not always a ”me or her/him” one, despite that our culture tries to drum it in. It is true, however that not all are people are interested in anything else then a monogamous relationship. They should of course not be forced to accept anything else, but neith should they expect that such an attitude works with everyone or that it is the only viable option regarding romantic relationship for humans (and in the case of ME, Asari- turinas and so on, at least as far as we know)

a lot of times when people cheat, they don't cheat becasue they want to love more then one person. they cheat because their needs are not being filled in their current relationship, be it sexual fetish, emotional support, or pretty much anything that's needed for their contentment... and lacking.

Agreed. They do not get everything they happen to want or need from one partner. Then its sad that such a need or want is challened in a deceptive way if there was a way to do so without deciving their partner.

you can convinced someone to try to share, but you cannot make them be happy about it.

Very true. And you can convince someone to be exclusive without making them happy about it.
In both cases it is a bad situation.

Jealousy can mess up any relationship - monogamous or otherwise. but in monogamous relationship, you only have 2 people to figure out. the more people you add to the equation - the more complex it gets, and while it can work out and for some - it does, its still a factor you cannot simply dismiss becasue you refuse to make a choice.

Its true that adding more people to a relationship might add complexity as there are more people involved who can have different ideas on what is ok and not, some people are more joalus or want more attention then
others and so on. Some of this can of course be if not solved at least alliviated by clear communication on what is what and how things work. You know, no false promises or exepextations. One possible advantage of poly relationships is also that those involved does not automatically need to view one another as competition in the
useual way (since its not a ”him/her or me-scenario). I agree that it is not for all, but the lesson here is that we often assume that everyone is or should be monogamous. Its not true just as there are a wide range of other types of relationship besides your standard homesexual marrige. I think it is important that we try to define our
own relationships together with those we are involved with, not just use predefined forms proclaimed by the elders or society.

LI's we have met so far are NOT poly. accept it. stop trying to find excuses why they can be. they themselves have said that they are not going to share. its tragic for your Shepards that they are in love with more then one person. but if they don't make that choice - they will make BOTH of them and in the end - themselves unhappy.

I dont know if you played that part of ME1 where Shepard is confonted by Liara and Ash, but lets just say that Liara says she can understand if Ash feel as she understand the concept of human joalousy. Liara however does
not seem to have much of a problem with jealousy (If Asari in general is less prone to jealousy I dont know).She did however remark on your LI when she was stressed out on Ilium, but it seemed to me like she was trying to rationalize not wanting to awaken her feelings for shepard and risk loosing him/her again to death.

Anyway, Lots of unhappyness comming up in ME3 it seems as it seems two people will always be unhappy and one will end up in a relationship with an more or less unhappy shepard.

Modifié par Random citizen, 08 décembre 2011 - 09:46 .

[Seboist]

who would know wrote...

Even if looks did matter, which they do not, the lineup for that would stretch all the way around the block.

In all seriousness, I was ready for a Vorcha squad member. I think I wanted to rebel against the game's patent presentation of them as nothing more than slobbering, slimy villains.

The Vorcha are given some positive portrayals here and there unlike the Batarians though.

[Medhia Nox]

Do I support it as an option for other people? Sure - why not.

Do I support it? No - not at all.

[feliciano2040]

Seboist wrote...

who would know wrote...

Even if looks did matter, which they do not, the lineup for that would stretch all the way around the block.

In all seriousness, I was ready for a Vorcha squad member. I think I wanted to rebel against the game's patent presentation of them as nothing more than slobbering, slimy villains.

The Vorcha are given some positive portrayals here and there unlike the Batarians though.

Vorcha ? Positive portrayals ? *Gavorn laugh*

I would say it's actuallly the other way, Vorcha are just irredeemable according to Bioware !

[jeweledleah]

@ Random Citizen - I do not assume that everyone SHOULD be monogamous, however, in case of ME LI's we've met so far are not interested in sharing (and I HAVE mentioned possible exception of Kelly and Liara earlier, multiple times no less - partly due to that scene you get with Liara and Ash/Kaidan in which they unequivocally state that they will NOT share, to the point where they will feel better NOT in a relationship at all as opposed to sharing)

its not even a matter of "they never said otherwise, so its possible to expand their portrayal" becasue they did. have you noticed all the hoopla about Ashley's outfit. OUTFIT. we're not even talking dialogue or anything, just outfit. and a lot of the criticism is due to something she specifically said, about preferring good hard armor and a big gun. Changing character's outlook on relationship and monogamy is much MUCH bigger then an outfit. and harder to justify, unless you go with "oh to hell with what they were, we'll just rewrite the characters the way we see fit" every time Bioware tries that? oh the backlash, my god the backlash.

either way - its far too late to request anything like that for ME3 and good thing, that. they messed with existing characters enough as it is.

and your Shepards are going to have to make a choice.

[Xilizhra]

and your Shepards are going to have to make a choice.

I hope that mine doesn't.