411 réponses à ce sujet

[spirosz]

Random citizen wrote...

spiros9110 wrote...

They already have enough trouble with dialogue for existing characters and you're open to the idea of have multiple characters with Shepard. I can just imagine the train wreck of dialogue that would open up, but that's just me, lol.

NORMANDY OF LOVE!

Well it is the final MEgame...(at least about Shepard and gang) and I dont think it would require any overwhelming amout of more dialouge.

If its a bedroom three-way, well then there is of course need for more replacement dialouge and animation. If it is a more common poly relationship (the three or whatever, -too many in the relationship of course becomes unmanagable - do not share bed, most of the "default monogamous /single LI" relationship dialogue can be kept and only small additions are needed.

Don't get me wrong, I'm open to it, I just see it being a mess concerning dialogue and maybe even exploits of the game.  For example, what would stop Shepard from just being in a relationship with every single crew member of the game and then having the game itself acknowledging it, I believe there would be certain game limitations to that factor; how would the "romance scene" work?  Obviously, it doesn't have to be restricted to sex or even mentioned, but what if someone wanted that to be the case.  Before the final mission, would they just include scene after scene after scene of "multiple" romance partners or just have it in one big scene?  Regadless, it's just the way I view it, so if it's in ME3, that's fine, whatever contributes to someone's enjoyment of the game.

[Dean_the_Young]

android654 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

android654 wrote...

So, from the views on sex on BSN... Homosexuality? No. Polyamorous relationships? No.

Is it me or is there a thick sense of sexual repression amongst a lot of people on here?

It's you.

Are you sure? Hmm... lets see, I'm not afraid of gay people or people who are sexual or interesting enough that more than one person would want them in a sexual way at a single time. I'm also not adverse to seeing it in film, games, books, etc. I also don't see a reason to keep these things from other people.

Don't see how that's repressive.

Then again, the oppositte is repressive and a lot of people here seem to favor that, so...

Also, nice of you to come to the attack of my question. It doesn't make you seem sexually repressed at all.

Considering I've made exactly... zero posts about my stance on homosexuality in Mass Effect, and my objection to polyamorous in Mass Effect is based on my prediction of the handling of the subject and not the subject itself, and I only posted in the last page...

And yet you're still assigning me a number of positions when you have so little to go on...

It really is you. Stop projecting uniformity on people. Prejudice and discrimination are unsightly things.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 07 décembre 2011 - 05:09 .

[android654]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

android654 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

android654 wrote...

So, from the views on sex on BSN... Homosexuality? No. Polyamorous relationships? No.

Is it me or is there a thick sense of sexual repression amongst a lot of people on here?

It's you.

Are you sure? Hmm... lets see, I'm not afraid of gay people or people who are sexual or interesting enough that more than one person would want them in a sexual way at a single time. I'm also not adverse to seeing it in film, games, books, etc. I also don't see a reason to keep these things from other people.

Don't see how that's repressive.

Then again, the oppositte is repressive and a lot of people here seem to favor that, so...

Also, nice of you to come to the attack of my question. It doesn't make you seem sexually repressed at all.

Considering I've made exactly... zero posts about my stance on homosexuality in Mass Effect, and my objection to polyamorous in Mass Effect is based on my prediction of the handling of the subject and not the subject itself, and I only posted in the last page...

And yet you're still assigning me a number of positions when you have so little to go on...

It really is you. Stop projecting uniformity on people. Prejudice and discrimination are unsightly things.

Did I reference you in the first post? Did I reference anyone at all? No on both counts, it was a statement to the forum as a whole. The fact that you decided to respond kind of implies that you sensed that statement was directed at you. And if you think that you don't hold those views, why would you think it was directed to you at all?

In do agree however, prejudice and discrimination is horrible, like when you discriminate againsnt people who have sex differently than you.

[Tup3x]

Random citizen wrote...

Tup3xi wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Polyamory means having more than one LI at a time w/ the full knowledge of everyone involved in the relationship?

Wat? No.

Care to elaborate?

Answer for the thread title if that wasn't obvious. No need to explain why polyamory is just plain stupid idea. It's way too obvious.

Modifié par Tup3xi, 07 décembre 2011 - 05:18 .

[Random citizen]

spiros9110 wrote...

Random citizen wrote...

spiros9110 wrote...

They already have enough trouble with dialogue for existing characters and you're open to the idea of have multiple characters with Shepard. I can just imagine the train wreck of dialogue that would open up, but that's just me, lol.

NORMANDY OF LOVE!

Well it is the final MEgame...(at least about Shepard and gang) and I dont think it would require any overwhelming amout of more dialouge.

If its a bedroom three-way, well then there is of course need for more replacement dialouge and animation. If it is a more common poly relationship (the three or whatever, -too many in the relationship of course becomes unmanagable - do not share bed, most of the "default monogamous /single LI" relationship dialogue can be kept and only small additions are needed.

Don't get me wrong, I'm open to it, I just see it being a mess concerning dialogue and maybe even exploits of the game.  For example, what would stop Shepard from just being in a relationship with every single crew member of the game and then having the game itself acknowledging it, I believe there would be certain game limitations to that factor; how would the "romance scene" work?  Obviously, it doesn't have to be restricted to sex or even mentioned, but what if someone wanted that to be the case.  Before the final mission, would they just include scene after scene after scene of "multiple" romance partners or just have it in one big scene?  Regadless, it's just the way I view it, so if it's in ME3, that's fine, whatever contributes to someone's enjoyment of the game.

Well how it would be solved and how it would be portrayed would be depending on several factors obviosly.
Som LI might, as a lot of people suggest, not be confortable with "sharing" and even if they "came around" they might have some conditions ( for example Tali might understand why shepard also wants to be with Liara because of their history and might be ok with it as long as she gets enough affection and attention from Shepard when they are together, but for now she will draw the line there. No Aria, Miranda etc or she is not interested- Others might have a much lesser need for attention but have an amorous interest)

Modifié par Random citizen, 07 décembre 2011 - 05:24 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Random citizen wrote...

Example on what was problematic please?

ME2's inability to have a relationship that wasn't a basic power/healing-penis fantasy for the M!Shep romances, short of the pure-flirt Kelly 'romance' or the 'keep the relationship with Liara.'

Tali, Jack, and Miranda all were 'strong' women who, after fiercly asserting their independences, are emotionally dependent on Shepard in order to become happy and/or emotionally healthy and in True Love. 'Only' the big-strong Shepard can do this for them, provided he's wise enough to break past their insecurities to touch their heart and look past their shell to the tender person inside. Decades of of logic, habit, and basic survival instincts are thrown out the airlock for the chance to find happiness atop Commander Shepard's emotionally-healing sex organ, which leads these strong women to become emotionally healthy and happy in ways they never have been able to be before, and may never be again whether it's because no one else is as good a man as Shepard/no one else is as dependable and trustworthy as Shepard/no one else is Shepard..

And that's ignoring the bra-belt/dat-ass body suit/sexualized full-body catsuits these three 'strong' and 'powerful' women were taking into battle.

I have played through most romances and liked most of them (Jacobs priiize was a both funny and a bit worrying at the same time though and did not help me much with the immersion, but you know, people are diffrent) the Tali, Jack and Liara LOTSB and Garrus romances were especially nice.

Good for you. There's quite a bit to be said about some of them in different respects. And there's nothing to be too ashamed about: it's not like romance is something that's entirely logical.

But they did have underlying weaknesses in the design, and those weaknesses would only be exagerated in a Commander Shepard's polyamorous route.

And I am not suggesting a "harem-ending" .

That pretty much is what any polyamorous relationship in the Mass Effect universe is going to be. It's going to be built by, for, and around Commander Shepard, with selective recruitment at player choice. It would have to be incredibly modular to compensate for the variety of possible combinations, whether it was one or five.


Entire books struggle to deal with the complications of multiple people having emotions for multiple people. Polyamory isn't some quick-fix: relationships are complicated, and Bioware struggles at it when more than two people are involved.

[Dean_the_Young]

android654 wrote...

Did I reference you in the first post? Did I reference anyone at all? No on both counts

Never said you did.

, it was a statement to the forum as a whole.

And that's why it's still just you. You're projecting uniformity on a wide group.

The fact that you decided to respond kind of implies that you sensed that statement was directed at you. And if you think that you don't hold those views, why would you think it was directed to you at all?

I didn't think your first post was directed at me. I still think it's you.

In do agree however, prejudice and discrimination is horrible, like when you discriminate againsnt people who have sex differently than you.

At this stage, you've yet to establish that any of it is occuring at all.

[Random citizen]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Random citizen wrote...

Example on what was problematic please?

ME2's inability to have a relationship that wasn't a basic power/healing-penis fantasy for the M!Shep romances, short of the pure-flirt Kelly 'romance' or the 'keep the relationship with Liara.'

Tali, Jack, and Miranda all were 'strong' women who, after fiercly asserting their independences, are emotionally dependent on Shepard in order to become happy and/or emotionally healthy and in True Love. 'Only' the big-strong Shepard can do this for them, provided he's wise enough to break past their insecurities to touch their heart and look past their shell to the tender person inside. Decades of of logic, habit, and basic survival instincts are thrown out the airlock for the chance to find happiness atop Commander Shepard's emotionally-healing sex organ, which leads these strong women to become emotionally healthy and happy in ways they never have been able to be before, and may never be again whether it's because no one else is as good a man as Shepard/no one else is as dependable and trustworthy as Shepard/no one else is Shepard..

And that's ignoring the bra-belt/dat-ass body suit/sexualized full-body catsuits these three 'strong' and 'powerful' women were taking into battle.

I have played through most romances and liked most of them (Jacobs priiize was a both funny and a bit worrying at the same time though and did not help me much with the immersion, but you know, people are diffrent) the Tali, Jack and Liara LOTSB and Garrus romances were especially nice.

Good for you. There's quite a bit to be said about some of them in different respects. And there's nothing to be too ashamed about: it's not like romance is something that's entirely logical.

But they did have underlying weaknesses in the design, and those weaknesses would only be exagerated in a Commander Shepard's polyamorous route.

And I am not suggesting a "harem-ending" .

That pretty much is what any polyamorous relationship in the Mass Effect universe is going to be. It's going to be built by, for, and around Commander Shepard, with selective recruitment at player choice. It would have to be incredibly modular to compensate for the variety of possible combinations, whether it was one or five.

Entire books struggle to deal with the complications of multiple people having emotions for multiple people. Polyamory isn't some quick-fix: relationships are complicated, and Bioware struggles at it when more than two people are involved.

Aha, yes. I very much agree with the problem of the LI being "seemingly strong and independet"  but ultimatly emotionally dependant on the dashing knight/Rouge Shepard who "completes and saves" them from their anxiety and pain. Very good critique on the onedimentional falocentric and steretype thematics. Yes, hopefully they learn from their mistakes. We know they can do better.

If you ask me, part of the problem in this afrementioned thematic is the repedition of certain stereotypes of witch a monogamous relationships constitutes a part, by being stiplulated as default. But of course you are right in that just introducing a polyamours alternative in itself will not fix the problems you mentioned.
But if Bioware are aware of these things, I am sure they could do it.

Modifié par Random citizen, 07 décembre 2011 - 06:05 .

[Sharizah]

no

[Dean_the_Young]

They could fix it... but then it would be ME3: Romance Simulator (With Reapers Somewhere).

Romance can only be so much of a small part of the ME experience, and quality requires depth and breadth. It's hard, but possible, to do so in voluntary bi-amorous relationships. Once you get bigger, however, much of the dynamic has to be scripted from the start, taking away from player choice, or else must be much, much bigger.

[Olive Oomph]

Generally yes, but I agree, that it is probably too complex for a game like that.

[D.Kain]

I support variety in any way. But there would have to be characters closed to this too, if it was present in the game.

[Random citizen]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

They could fix it... but then it would be ME3: Romance Simulator (With Reapers Somewhere).

Romance can only be so much of a small part of the ME experience, and quality requires depth and breadth. It's hard, but possible, to do so in voluntary bi-amorous relationships. Once you get bigger, however, much of the dynamic has to be scripted from the start, taking away from player choice, or else must be much, much bigger.

Well I am quite aware that it the complexity could get out of hand if the relation involved more then three individuals.
Three might be doable without it getting out of hand or have quality suffering though. You know, sometimes (quite often when it comes to storytelling) craftmenship is best (IMHO) seen when the craftsman works with challanging material.

[Random citizen]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

I'm still puzzled as to why anyone thinks any of the LIs would actually go along with this.

1. Because a lot of people are polyamorous in one way or another, even if they started out  as "default mono".
2. Because Liara indicated that she had no real problem with it in ME.

Modifié par Random citizen, 07 décembre 2011 - 05:54 .

[Xilizhra]

ME2's inability to have a relationship that wasn't a basic power/healing-penis fantasy for the M!Shep romances, short of the pure-flirt Kelly 'romance' or the 'keep the relationship with Liara.'

Tali, Jack, and Miranda all were 'strong' women who, after fiercly asserting their independences, are emotionally dependent on Shepard in order to become happy and/or emotionally healthy and in True Love. 'Only' the big-strong Shepard can do this for them, provided he's wise enough to break past their insecurities to touch their heart and look past their shell to the tender person inside. Decades of of logic, habit, and basic survival instincts are thrown out the airlock for the chance to find happiness atop Commander Shepard's emotionally-healing sex organ, which leads these strong women to become emotionally healthy and happy in ways they never have been able to be before, and may never be again whether it's because no one else is as good a man as Shepard/no one else is as dependable and trustworthy as Shepard/no one else is Shepard..

And that's ignoring the bra-belt/dat-ass body suit/sexualized full-body catsuits these three 'strong' and 'powerful' women were taking into battle.

Wait, you agree with that? I'm stunned, I didn't know this would be the place we'd find common ground... sort of, as I feel it's mostly an issue with Jack. But there are points with the other two as well.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

I'm up for it.

[Burneye Is God]

Ravensword wrote...

Polyamory means having more than one LI at a time w/ the full knowledge of everyone involved in the relationship?

sign me up lol

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

ME2's inability to have a relationship that wasn't a basic power/healing-penis fantasy for the M!Shep romances, short of the pure-flirt Kelly 'romance' or the 'keep the relationship with Liara.'

Tali, Jack, and Miranda all were 'strong' women who, after fiercly asserting their independences, are emotionally dependent on Shepard in order to become happy and/or emotionally healthy and in True Love. 'Only' the big-strong Shepard can do this for them, provided he's wise enough to break past their insecurities to touch their heart and look past their shell to the tender person inside. Decades of of logic, habit, and basic survival instincts are thrown out the airlock for the chance to find happiness atop Commander Shepard's emotionally-healing sex organ, which leads these strong women to become emotionally healthy and happy in ways they never have been able to be before, and may never be again whether it's because no one else is as good a man as Shepard/no one else is as dependable and trustworthy as Shepard/no one else is Shepard..

And that's ignoring the bra-belt/dat-ass body suit/sexualized full-body catsuits these three 'strong' and 'powerful' women were taking into battle.

Wait, you agree with that? I'm stunned, I didn't know this would be the place we'd find common ground... sort of, as I feel it's mostly an issue with Jack. But there are points with the other two as well.

Dude (chick), I've been saying that for... months, at least, if not over a year.

[Xilizhra]

I haven't talked to you much over the past several months, though I recall some things with Tali.

[Dean_the_Young]

Random citizen wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

They could fix it... but then it would be ME3: Romance Simulator (With Reapers Somewhere).

Romance can only be so much of a small part of the ME experience, and quality requires depth and breadth. It's hard, but possible, to do so in voluntary bi-amorous relationships. Once you get bigger, however, much of the dynamic has to be scripted from the start, taking away from player choice, or else must be much, much bigger.

Well I am quite aware that it the complexity could get out of hand if the relation involved more then three individuals.
Three might be doable without it getting out of hand or have quality suffering though. You know, sometimes (quite often when it comes to storytelling) craftmenship is best (IMHO) seen when the craftsman works with challanging material.

About the only characters who would work well as a third-wing would be Liara and/or Kelly. In part because they're about the only character to ever express any interest in multiple species, and because most of the other characters have 'marks' against them.

Jacob and Miranda are Cerberus, with Jacob not getting along with Thane in particular and Miranda not getting especially well with, almost everyone. Thane's dying, Tali's Shepard-centric and not just experimental in general, Kaiden and Ashley are mono-e-mono, Jack's trust only goes so far and is pretty 'exlcusive' in outlook, and Garrus...

Well, Garrus might go for a third.

So, Shepard, Garrus, Kelly, and Liara.

Garrus's harem, for fem!Sheps.

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

I haven't talked to you much over the past several months, though I recall some things with Tali.

Clearly you need to talk with me more.

[Sealy]

Ravensword wrote...

Polyamory means having more than one LI at a time w/ the full knowledge of everyone involved in the relationship?

Uh, yah. Actually if Bioware would like to make it available that Shep buys a big bed... or maybe a smaller bed for forced cuddles and then EVERYONE on the boat can have Shep sexytimes.

[D.Kain]

Regarding what Dead_the_young said and a little of topic. Was there EVER a strong female romance option in ANY bioware game? You know a character that has everything fine and doesn't need fixing at all.