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Characters' Motives: A Klassifikation

Débuté par Guest_iOnlySignIn_* , sept. 20 2011 04:54

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#1
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 20 septembre 2011 - 04:54

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Why does someone follow Commander Shepard? Some may share similar motivations. Here's a classification of their motives (by no means 100% accurate), for your comment and criticism.

Note: I didn't include "duty" as a motivation because it's superficial. In Shepard's time duties are not handed down via heredity. You need a personal motive to accept your duties in the first place.


1. Atonement

- Mordin. "Nice retirement after STG work complete."

- Thane. "I'm trying to make the universe brighter before I die."

- Ashley. For her grandfather though, not for herself.

- Samara. "My daughter's condition is my fault. And my redemption lies in killing her."


2. Payment

- Zaeed. "Your Illusive Man can move a lot of credits."

- Jack. "You want me on your ship? Let me look into those files."


3. A Desire For Purpose

- Wrex. "I followed you because I want to fight for something more than credits."

- Grunt. "You are my Battlemaster. You give me purpose."

- Chakwas. "Colonial military life is not for you?"

- Miranda. "I like to know where I fit in the world. I have a purpose here."

- Kaidan. Arguably.

- James. Probably.


4. To Escape From Bureaucrats

- Garrus. "I got fed up with the bureaucratic crap on the Citadel..."

- Jacob. "The Alliance is all talk. Ceberus is different."

- Ken and Gabby. "We need to fight the real enemy."

- James. Probably.


5. Admiration for/Obsession with Commander Shepard

- Liara. "Because I couldn't let you go."

- Tali. "I got better. I got you."

- Legion. "No data available."

- Morinth. "So strong. I need this."


6. For Fun

- Kasumi. "I do what I do for the love of it."

- Joker. "[Insert any Joker quote here]"


I don't think it's easy now for BioWare to come up with new characters who don't fall into one of these categories.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 20 septembre 2011 - 06:03 .

#2
Kaiser Shepard
Posté 20 septembre 2011 - 05:08

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I mostly agree with your list, save for a few characters:

- Ashley: to me it seems more like she's trying to prove herself, although redemption does factor into it.
- Zaeed: He's ultimately in it to get revenge on Vido, not the money.
- Tali: Selfishness, the need to further the cause of her people. The only thing she requires Shepard to do is give.

#3
Leonia
Posté 20 septembre 2011 - 05:10

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What about Samara/Morinth?

#4
Guest_EternalAmbiguity_*
Posté 20 septembre 2011 - 05:14

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I'm pretty sure Jack falls under #3, or just a place to belong. If you get to know her, that is. She's been thrown from place to place, and now someone wants her. She isn't turning that down, even after she gets her payment.

And I think people like Miranda or Kaidan, people who are with you at the beginning of the game, don't really have a particular motivation, at the beginning at least. Probably everyone's motivation changes over time.

#5
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 20 septembre 2011 - 05:15

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Kaiser Shepard wrote...
- Ashley: to me it seems more like she's trying to prove herself, although redemption does factor into it.

I think she's far more eager than the average marine to prove herself because of her grandfather. Calling it "Atonement" may be a bit over general, but I think that is the ultimate source of her motivation

- Zaeed: He's ultimately in it to get revenge on Vido, not the money.

Agreed. But that is part of his contract and can be considered his "payment". And it's hard to start a new category just for him.

- Tali: Selfishness, the need to further the cause of her people. The only thing she requires Shepard to do is give.

I agree she is selfish and will put her people's cause above Shepard and everything else, but I believe her admiration for Shepard is genuine (she's not playing Shepard for a sucker). There are better ways to further the Quarian cause than following around a disgraced Human Spectre, especially one who might even kill her and use her to betray the Quarians to the Geth.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 20 septembre 2011 - 05:28 .

#6
Valdrane78
Posté 20 septembre 2011 - 05:22

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Boredom:
Vigilante "I woke up one morning and found I had nothign to do. Heard about this Shepard guy who kills lots of things and thought, what the hell, lets go kill a few giant sentient machines!"

All joking aside, I pretty much agree with you.

#7
Valdrane78
Posté 20 septembre 2011 - 05:24

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Oh forgot about something Zaeed isn't doing it for the money technically, he's doing it so he can retire. Check out the dossiers on the SB ship. He just wants to retire.

#8
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 20 septembre 2011 - 05:24

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leonia42 wrote...

What about Samara/Morinth?

Lost in revision. Apologies. Added back now.

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

I'm pretty sure Jack falls under #3, or just a place to belong. If you get to know her, that is. She's been thrown from place to place, and now someone wants her. She isn't turning that down, even after she gets her payment.

And I think people like Miranda or Kaidan, people who are with you at the beginning of the game, don't really have a particular motivation, at the beginning at least. Probably everyone's motivation changes over time.

I agree. It's hard for me to classify Kaidan, seeing that he's mostly motivated by his duty.

But "duty" is hardly satisfying as a motivation. You need a superior motive to accept that duty in the first place. Kaidan seemed to be motivated by his desire to explore the universe. That's why I put it under "desire for purpose".

Miranda is pretty much an adult version of Grunt IMO. She's got all those abilities and don't know what to do with herself after she escaped. Then she was seduced by TIM and his grandiose rhetoric of ensuring Humanity's future.

As for Jack, I never played MaleShep so I can't comment on that. For my FemShep Jack's pretty much there for the pay, and to have some fun killing things. Yeah and I triggered all her dialogue and was mostly very friendly with her. I blame BioWare for removing the lesbian Jack romance. :-(

#9
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 20 septembre 2011 - 05:26

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Valdrane78 wrote...

Oh forgot about something Zaeed isn't doing it for the money technically, he's doing it so he can retire. Check out the dossiers on the SB ship. He just wants to retire.

Ah poor old guy. I've seen his Dossier but I never interpreted it that way. I just thought it's a sensible thing to look into for someone of his age.

Perhaps we can visit him in his new home in ME3 and persuade him out of retirement. :-)

#10
Capt_Flashheart
Posté 20 septembre 2011 - 05:27

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Kaiser Shepard wrote...

 Tali: Selfishness, the need to further the cause of her people.

May I suggest you reconsider your use of the word selfishness? I don't think it means what you think it does.

#11
Leonia
Posté 20 septembre 2011 - 05:31

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Capt_Flashheart wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

 Tali: Selfishness, the need to further the cause of her people.

May I suggest you reconsider your use of the word selfishness? I don't think it means what you think it does.


I agree with Kaiser's assessment. It's absolutely selfish, in both games really.

#12
Dhiro
Posté 20 septembre 2011 - 05:32

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Ooh, I like this thread.

#13
Dave of Canada
Posté 20 septembre 2011 - 05:35

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Capt_Flashheart wrote...

May I suggest you reconsider your use of the word selfishness? I don't think it means what you think it does.


How so? It works in this context.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 20 septembre 2011 - 05:37 .

#14
Drone223
Posté 20 septembre 2011 - 05:42

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Mostly correct but Legion was ment to make contact with Shepard and assist him/her in fighting the Reapers and also he is Shepards terminal to the true Geth, also Tali is a Qurian she is usefull with ships

Modifié par Drone223, 20 septembre 2011 - 05:44 .

#15
Capt_Flashheart
Posté 20 septembre 2011 - 05:45

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leonia42 wrote...

I agree with Kaiser's assessment. It's absolutely selfish, in both games really.

But how? Selfishness is a desire for personal gain, an excessive concern for oneself.
In what way does wanting to help others constitute a desire for personal gain?

#16
Drone223
Posté 20 septembre 2011 - 05:51

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Capt_Flashheart wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

I agree with Kaiser's assessment. It's absolutely selfish, in both games really.

But how? Selfishness is a desire for personal gain, an excessive concern for oneself.
In what way does wanting to help others constitute a desire for personal gain?


@Capt_Flashheart

Yeah Tali is thinking about her people she is willing to do anything to save them which includes serving with Shepard

#17
Dave of Canada
Posté 20 septembre 2011 - 05:57

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Capt_Flashheart wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

I agree with Kaiser's assessment. It's absolutely selfish, in both games really.

But how? Selfishness is a desire for personal gain, an excessive concern for oneself.
In what way does wanting to help others constitute a desire for personal gain?


One doesn't have to try and benefit themselves to be considered selfish, one's desires for a certain situation to benefit a friend / community can be consistuted as selfish.

For example, a man who cares for the benefit of his family despite their objections and will strive at nothing to achieve it can be considered selfish as all he's thinking about is his idea of benefitting the family.

Tali falls into the above catagory.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 20 septembre 2011 - 05:57 .

#18
Han Shot First
Posté 20 septembre 2011 - 05:57

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Nice list.

I mostly agree with it, though I would add that Ashley and Kaidan didn't have much choice in the matter. As Alliance Marines they can't pick and choose their missions or their commanding officers. That being said I would agree that they have personal motivations beyond duty (although duty should be it's own category as well), and the ones you listed for both are spot on.

Likewise Chakwas and Joker didn't have a choice in the matter either in ME1. They were duty bound to follow Shepard into hell and back, whether or not they wanted to.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 20 septembre 2011 - 06:00 .

#19
Guest_iOnlySignIn_*
Posté 20 septembre 2011 - 06:07

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Han Shot First wrote...

Likewise Chakwas and Joker didn't have a choice in the matter either in ME1. They were duty bound to follow Shepard into hell and back, whether or not they wanted to.

I think they had plenty of choices, but both are eager to be back.

Chakwas was bored on Mars. She "lived a full life (of adventures)" and wants to give others "the same opportunity".

Joker was an Ace pilot grounded. He was itching to fly and the Normandy is the best ship he knows of.

I don't think either of these two is as attached to Commander Shepard personally as Liara or even Legion.

#20
Han Shot First
Posté 20 septembre 2011 - 06:26

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I agree that they also had personal motivations for being invovled in the mission, but as Alliance military personnel assigned to the Normandy they also didn't have much choice but to follow Shepard in ME1. Unlike Garrus, Wrex, Liara or Tali they initially were also duty bound to the mission.

#21
Capt_Flashheart
Posté 20 septembre 2011 - 06:31

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Dave of Canada wrote...

One doesn't have to try and benefit themselves to be considered selfish, one's desires for a certain situation to benefit a friend / community can be consistuted as selfish.

For example, a man who cares for the benefit of his family despite their objections and will strive at nothing to achieve it can be considered selfish as all he's thinking about is his idea of benefitting the family.

Tali falls into the above catagory.

The situations you describe are not so much acts of selfishness as they are examples of acting in oneself's intrests. If a man dies to save his family, does the family objecting to this act automatically make it a selfish one?

Making decisions based on what you personally value doesn't make you selfish. Making decsions that only benefit youself is what makes one selfish.

According to Tali's Shadow Broker dossier, she has a "Typical Quarian investment in species' future instead of personal advancement."

That, is her motivation. When Tali makes decisions influenced by her motivation, it isn't selfish, it's just Tali acting in accordance with her raison d'être.

#22
Homebound
Posté 20 septembre 2011 - 06:36

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*classifiCation*

#23
Homebound
Posté 20 septembre 2011 - 06:37

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Capt_Flashheart wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

One doesn't have to try and benefit themselves to be considered selfish, one's desires for a certain situation to benefit a friend / community can be consistuted as selfish.

For example, a man who cares for the benefit of his family despite their objections and will strive at nothing to achieve it can be considered selfish as all he's thinking about is his idea of benefitting the family.

Tali falls into the above catagory.

The situations you describe are not so much acts of selfishness as they are examples of acting in oneself's intrests. If a man dies to save his family, does the family objecting to this act automatically make it a selfish one?

Making decisions based on what you personally value doesn't make you selfish. Making decsions that only benefit youself is what makes one selfish.

According to Tali's Shadow Broker dossier, she has a "Typical Quarian investment in species' future instead of personal advancement."

That, is her motivation. When Tali makes decisions influenced by her motivation, it isn't selfish, it's just Tali acting in accordance with her raison d'être.


i agree, tali isnt selfish, she's selfless.

#24
arne1234
Posté 20 septembre 2011 - 06:59

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Hellbound555 wrote...

Capt_Flashheart wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

One doesn't have to try and benefit themselves to be considered selfish, one's desires for a certain situation to benefit a friend / community can be consistuted as selfish.

For example, a man who cares for the benefit of his family despite their objections and will strive at nothing to achieve it can be considered selfish as all he's thinking about is his idea of benefitting the family.

Tali falls into the above catagory.

The situations you describe are not so much acts of selfishness as they are examples of acting in oneself's intrests. If a man dies to save his family, does the family objecting to this act automatically make it a selfish one?

Making decisions based on what you personally value doesn't make you selfish. Making decsions that only benefit youself is what makes one selfish.

According to Tali's Shadow Broker dossier, she has a "Typical Quarian investment in species' future instead of personal advancement."

That, is her motivation. When Tali makes decisions influenced by her motivation, it isn't selfish, it's just Tali acting in accordance with her raison d'être.


i agree, tali isnt selfish, she's selfless.


Witch brings us back to admiration, because a lot of the things she likes abouth Shepard are his self sarificing acts.

#25
Kaiser Shepard
Posté 20 septembre 2011 - 07:11

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[quote]Capt_Flashheart wrote...

[quote]Dave of Canada wrote...

One doesn't have to try and benefit themselves to be considered selfish, one's desires for a certain situation to benefit a friend / community can be consistuted as selfish.

For example, a man who cares for the benefit of his family despite their objections and will strive at nothing to achieve it can be considered selfish as all he's thinking about is his idea of benefitting the family.

Tali falls into the above catagory.
[/quote]
The situations you describe are not so much acts of selfishness as they are examples of acting in oneself's intrests. If a man dies to save his family, does the family objecting to this act automatically make it a selfish one?[/quote]No, but it doesn't absolve him of selfishness either: after all, he had a vested interested in keeping his contribution to the gene pool safe.

Would you argue that that same man killing another family for the benefit of his ownisn't selfishness, then? Is stealing from them? Is covering up their murder because your actions poorly thought through choices ultimately led to your someone your own direct relative killing them?


[quote]Making decisions based on what you personally value doesn't make you selfish. Making decsions that only benefit youself is what makes one selfish.[/quote]
Then surely the Illusive Man is the paragon of selflessness.

[quote]According to Tali's Shadow Broker dossier, she has a "Typical Quarian investment in species' future instead of personal advancement."

That, is her motivation. When Tali makes decisions influenced by her motivation, it isn't selfish, it's just Tali acting in accordance with her raison d'être.[/quote][/quote]
That only means she's as conceited and selfish as most of her species.
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