39 réponses à ce sujet

[Herr Uhl]

Sareth Cousland wrote...

I am currently on my 2nd playthrough and establishing my canon for DA3. I defeated the Arishok in single combat with my warrior about 5 hours ago and consider going back to defeat him with my party, as I think the Arishok should be beyond any Fereldan refugee to beat in a duel, considering how the Arishok is chosen in the Qun and what his role is. Any ideas to the contrary so I do not have to play these last 5 hours again? ;-)

That they're not chosen solely by fighting prowess?

[EmperorSahlertz]

And that Hawke has been trained in melee combat by Malcolm, who had been a soldier for much of his life. Hawke is a highly skilled combatant himself. That he is a refugee does not decrease his combat prowess.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Being a mage does not prevent you from being a skilled combatant. Look up on some of the codex entries of Malcom, Hawke and Carver, and they will explain it to you.

[whykikyouwhy]

You should have gained at least a small measure of the Arishok's respect (if not the full achievement) - that alone would make you "worthy" in the Arishok's eyes. He sees Hawke as different from the rest of Kirkwall because (s)he has worked to rise in position and control his/her fate, and (s)he answers his questions with honesty.

I wouldn't focus on Hawke being a refugee - his/her origins have nothing to do with the measure of the person (s)he is.

[thats1evildude]

Yes, it was a mere Fereldan refugee who defeated the Arishok, the qunari's greatest warrior.

And, in my case at least, it was a "mere" city elf peasant with a bit of martial training picked up from his mom who defeated the Archdemon — a god, no less — and ended the Fifth Blight within less than a year.

As whykikyouwhy pointed out, don't focus on the fact that Hawke was a Fereldan refugee. Most figures of legend have humble beginnings. By the time your Hawke faces the Arishok, he/she is a seasoned warrior who has already faced down countless demons, petty thugs, blood mages, darkspawn and worse.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 20 septembre 2011 - 10:32 .

[blothulfur]

Considering it's all a pack of lies spun by a dwarven braggart, go with whatever fabrication you wish. However the arishok is not our greatest warrior necessarily, he commands the body of the Qun thus leadership, charisma and strategy are of more use in his role than martial prowess (though often the two go hand in hand.)

[SkittlesKat96]

I wouldn't underestimate Hawke's strength, in my opinion he is nearly as powerful as the Grey Warden/Hero Of Ferelden.

[Herr Uhl]

Sareth Cousland wrote...

the Qun seems to determine rulership by combat prowess, as Sten demonstrates when he challenges you in DA:O. 

Sten does not determine squat about who is promoted or degraded. And the Arishok is no ruler either, if it was by strenght how would the Arigena and Ariqun be at the same level?

At least having a basic grasp of tactics would seem like a good skill for the main general, and anyone that leads men.

[Prince_12]

thats1evildude wrote...
And, in my case at least, it was a "mere" city elf peasant with a bit of martial training picked up from his mom who defeated the Archdemon — a god, no less — and ended the Fifth Blight within less than a year.

:lol:

[Sith Grey Warden]

nightshift002 wrote...

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

I wouldn't underestimate Hawke's strength, in my opinion he is nearly as powerful as the Grey Warden/Hero Of Ferelden.

Possibly stronger - Hawke has no taint in him that ultimately results in a death sentence.

Grey wardens have spidey sense when it comes to darkspawn and dream about them alot - no superhuman powers im aware of unless someone would like to correct me.

Unsure when Grey Wardens go to the deep roads for "their time has come"  but with no taint to kill him Hawke's strength and knowledge would only be honed further yes?

Until the calling, though, the taint does not harm the Warden's fighting ability.

Also, the Warden trains to the level of being able to kill the Archdemon, the most powerful kind of High Dragon, in a year, while after seven Hawke still only kills a regular High Dragon. Same thing goes with Harvesters.

[Davillo]

The Warden? I would not be surprised if the warden would not be one of the most powerful being in thedas. Especially the Amell warden dude I made a such a bad ass arcane warrior - Battlemage - Blood Mage- that I really could not tell who could possibly stand against the dude. I love that by the end of awakening your character was so just awesome I mean where else I can play as a mage in a huge black armor, put Magic Might on blood magic Draining aura and pew pew.

[UltiPup]

An Arishok is the leader of the army. That doesn't necessarily mean he was chosen because he was the strongest. He was the best Qunari to lead an army. Strength, cunning, wisdom, tenacity. He simply was the best leader among the Warriors.

Hawke isn't some refugee. Hawke is either already a trained mage or a solider in the King's army. They've had training to fight. Then they've had a few years to get stronger. Hawke and co. weren't lying around eating sweet meats. And at that point, Hawke has killed Qunari before. So that shows that it is not always true that a Qunari can beat any human. Hawke is no ordinary human either, so it isn't really weird that Hawke could win.

The fight itself is really hard too, so we know Hawke didn't faceroll the Arishok.

[Nauks]

Defeating the Arishok as a warrior in single combat seems very iffy indeed, not to mention as a rogue.

I like the fight as a mage, where it's easier to suspend disbelief, leveling the playing field with spells rather than Hawkes arguably (quite significantly) weaker martial abilities.
The fights mechanics are more straight up as a mage too, not as much awkward kiting.
It's all right there in the trailer, the Arishok looks like he'll put Hawke down like a dog, but then... BOOM, spell-headshot!

Modifié par Nauks, 21 septembre 2011 - 05:51 .

[Satyricon331]

Sareth Cousland wrote...
I am currently on my 2nd playthrough and establishing my canon for DA3. I defeated the Arishok in single combat with my warrior about 5 hours ago and consider going back to defeat him with my party, as I think the Arishok should be beyond any Fereldan refugee to beat in a duel, considering how the Arishok is chosen in the Qun and what his role is. Any ideas to the contrary so I do not have to play these last 5 hours again? ;-)

Personally, I think a strong, trained Qunari should be beyond any individual human to beat in a duel, barring some unusual gear or something.

I reconcile it by thinking the Arishok's combat prowess has atrophied in his leadership position, and particularly during his years-long stay in Kirkwall.  For whatever reason (the Qun lends itself to all kinds of speculation), the Arishok hasn't been training as hard as Hawke's actual combat situations have been.  The Arishok's just a little off his game.

This type of thing is why I usually like playing magic-users (I totally agree with Nauks it's easier to suspend disbelief in these situations for mages), but DA2 upends that pattern, sadly.

[thats1evildude]

Sith Grey Warden wrote...

Also, the Warden trains to the level of being able to kill the Archdemon, the most powerful kind of High Dragon, in a year, while after seven Hawke still only kills a regular High Dragon. Same thing goes with Harvesters.

That's not really a fair comparison. Many of the creatures that Hawke faces are considerably stronger than they were in Origins. Compare the rage demons you face in DA2 to the ones you fight in DAO; the former would laugh at the latter and then ****-slap them into submission.

Or, for an even better example, compare alpha darkspawn from the first game to the second.

Satyricon331 wrote...

Personally, I think a strong,
trained Qunari should be beyond any individual human to beat in a duel,
barring some unusual gear or something.

I really don't see why. They may be stronger than humans on average, but they're hardly gods.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 21 septembre 2011 - 06:11 .

[Satyricon331]

thats1evildude wrote...

Satyricon331 wrote...
Personally, I think a strong,
trained Qunari should be beyond any individual human to beat in a duel,
barring some unusual gear or something.

I really don't see why. They may be stronger than humans on average, but they're hardly gods.

I don't agree at all with an implication that anything beyond individual humans' ability to defeat (in a duel setting) would need to be a god.

[thats1evildude]

Satyricon331 wrote...

I don't agree at all with an implication that anything beyond individual humans' ability to defeat (in a duel setting) would need to be a god.

I meant metaphorically. Sort of like how you might say someone is a god amongst men, but they're not actually omnipotent. Or how some people jokingly refer to Felicia Day as "a geek goddess," even though she's not omniscient or has temples built in her honour. That I know of.

Maybe I should have stuck with my original wording of "they're hardly invincible" to avoid confusion.

I'll just note that the Arishok himself expresses surprise that Hawke was able to defeat the Arvaarad from Shepherding Wolves. So from the qunari's perspective, he's already better than most mortal warriors.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 21 septembre 2011 - 06:33 .

[Satyricon331]

Ah, I see. Well, I agree they're not invincible. And perhaps I should have expanded on my original statmeent's qualification that there are things that could give the human victory (the "something" being things like malnutrition in one, or sheer luck, etc.) But there's every reason to think that someone who's been bred for combat and trained from birth (by a society like the Qunari's, no less) will do better than someone who's trained from teenage hood and comes from a shorter, weaker species. There are always possibilities like, the Qunari are slow learners and the Arishok is really young, or whatever, but since there's just as much (or little, as the case may be) reason to beleive their opposite (like, the Qunari are really fast learners and the Arishok's old by human standards), they wash out.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that going into the battle, there's little reason to expect the Arishok was off his game. It's only in light of the information that Hawke defeated him that it becomes more plausible.

(All this is assuming Varric isn't bluffing Cassadnra).

[thats1evildude]

That just guarantees the Arishok is a strong opponent, beyond the capabilities of most ordinary men to defeat. Hawke is no ordinary man/woman.

[Satyricon331]

I'm not often one to believe in guarantees, and I'm not quite sure what you're arguing. Are you saying there's some particular reason to believe Hawke's experience is enough to overcome the factors I've mentioned? I disagree.

[thats1evildude]

Satyricon331 wrote...

I'm not often one to believe in guarantees, and I'm not quite sure what you're arguing. Are you saying there's some particular reason to believe Hawke's experience is enough to overcome the factors I've mentioned? I disagree.

More that Hawke has considerable natural talent.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 21 septembre 2011 - 07:07 .