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[Barquiel]

laecraft wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

laecraft wrote...

If you don't object to asari dominance, then why do you object to human dominance? Do you truly think that we'd do so much worse?

yes

Actually, I should've specified. That question was addressed to humans only. If you're an asari, don't bother answering. I already know what you think about it.

I think we have a universe with a myriad of alien species. As far as we know, there were only two major conflicts in the last 2500 years.

- Negotiation with the rachni was impossible. They just attacked all species in council space.
- The krogan launched a great war of conquest in search of "lebensraum"

There was nothing the council could do to prevent these wars. Now, if we look at human history...
I think the council did a great job (settling disputes between governments, maintaining law and order) for the last 2500 years.

Modifié par Barquiel, 23 septembre 2011 - 02:02 .

[Aeowyn]

Barquiel wrote...

laecraft wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

laecraft wrote...

If you don't object to asari dominance, then why do you object to human dominance? Do you truly think that we'd do so much worse?

yes

Actually, I should've specified. That question was addressed to humans only. If you're an asari, don't bother answering. I already know what you think about it.

I think we have a universe with a myriad of alien species. As far as we know, there were only two major conflicts in the last 2500 years.

- Negotiation with the rachni was impossible. They just attacked all species in council space.
- The krogan launched a great war of conquest in search of "lebensraum"

There was nothing the council could do to prevent these wars. Now, if we look at human history...
I think the council did a great job (settling disputes between governments, maintaining law and order) for the last 2500 years.

Because we know so much about the history of the Asari before they went out in Space. For all we know they have similar historic backgrounds as humans. And the whole "look down on pureblood Asari" and the handling of the Ardat-Yakshi isn't exactly flattering.

[Barquiel]

Aeowyn wrote...


Because we know so much about the history of the Asari before they went out in Space. For all we know they have similar historic backgrounds as humans.

That's true, of course. But from everything we've seen in Mass Effect 2, humanity hasn't changed. We have a police state on the citadel and two major military powers are now on a brink of war with each other.

[Sajuro]

laecraft wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

laecraft wrote...

If you don't object to asari dominance, then why do you object to human dominance? Do you truly think that we'd do so much worse?

yes

Actually, I should've specified. That question was addressed to humans only. If you're an asari, don't bother answering. I already know what you think about it.

what about elves? because I live with human dominance and frankly, it sucks

[Wulfram]

Aeowyn wrote...

Because we know so much about the history of the Asari before they went out in Space. For all we know they have similar historic backgrounds as humans. And the whole "look down on pureblood Asari" and the handling of the Ardat-Yakshi isn't exactly flattering.

From the codex

The asari came late to the concept of world government. For centuries, their homeworld of Thessia was dotted with loose confederacies of great republican cities. The closest Earthly equivalent would be the ancient Mediterranean city-states. Since the asari culture values consensus and accommodation, there was little impetus to form larger
principalities. Rather than hoard resources, the asari bartered freely. Rather than attack one another over differing philosophies, they sought to understand one another.

Modifié par Wulfram, 23 septembre 2011 - 03:49 .

[LorDC]

Barquiel wrote...

laecraft wrote...

If you don't object to asari dominance, then why do you object to human dominance? Do you truly think that we'd do so much worse?

yes

Burn the Heretic! Kill the Mutant! Purge the Unclean!Erm... wrong universe. With such line of thought, why shouldn't humanity just commit mass suicide to give space and resources for better species?

[BlueMagitek]

How did we go from the original topic to talking about the Asari background again?

[SandTrout]

Wulfram wrote...

From the codex

The asari came late to the concept of world government. For centuries, their homeworld of Thessia was dotted with loose confederacies of great republican cities. The closest Earthly equivalent would be the ancient Mediterranean city-states. Since the asari culture values consensus and accommodation, there was little impetus to form larger
principalities. Rather than hoard resources, the asari bartered freely. Rather than attack one another over differing philosophies, they sought to understand one another.

Fair point, but this is yet another reason that many consider the Asari a Mary Sue species.

Also, my paranoid side wonders how much of Asari History we can actually believe, and how much has been altered for general consumption.

Modifié par SandTrout, 23 septembre 2011 - 05:27 .

[Ieldra]

BlueMagitek wrote...
How did we go from the original topic to talking about the Asari background again?

We were talking about the current asari dominance and reasons why it is (not) preferable to human dominance as a consequence of comparing the desirability of upholding the Council's power by the Spectres with the attempt to establish human dominance by Cerberus. If the asari are a Mary Sue species then in-universe their dominance would of course have only good consequences for the galaxy, though players would resent them on those grounds and apply Screw You, Elves!. If they aren't a Mary Sue species but have considerable flaws then asari dominance is not preferable to the dominance of any other species, like humans.

As for the flaws of the asari, hear Aethyta speak. They are a long-lived species and have all the innate conservatism that that brings with it, being basically unable to try new and innovative solutions to things and being more set in their ways than the other species. There's also that prejudice against purebloods (which makes no sense, but that's another topic). So I don't think they're portrayed as better than the other species, and as a consequence it cannot be said that the asari are generally preferable as Citadel Space's pre-eminent power.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 septembre 2011 - 08:34 .

[Golden Owl]

1136342t54 wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...
Did I say that?....No....I did not...Just not allowing the Council to wash their hands of their responsibilities in it.

Then its pointless to compare the Council directly to Cerberus. At best you can compare them to the Illusive Man.

 Your clutching at straws 113....I am currently replaying ME1....Want me to gather the proof?...I would be more than happy to...word for word in fact.

No I'm not since I'm basically going off what Miranda said. ME1 never really specified the purpose of the experiments other than some type of super soldier or something. Miranda clarified that for us.

False....Kahlee Sanders lover boy Jiro was tasked with administrating Gillian doses of chemicals supplied by Cerberus via Paul Grayson's deliveries in 'Ascension'....Page 125 through to page 148....the escape was spurred because of this fact, not the other way around.

To be honest you still haven't proven much with that post even though you didn't clarify what exactly the doses were doing to her. Luckily I remember that part and yeah that last dose nearly killed her.

I meant to say killed out right. Still what did you expect Paul Grayson isn't an entirely innocent person and has done some horrible things for Cerberus and still betrayed them. Like I said I don't like it but remember he did betray them. Experimenting on him isn't even the worse thing they have done. Although it is arguably the stupidest thing.

But didn't you previously state Cerberus hadn't been involved in Assassinations until I pointed out otherwise?

No if I did my mistake

...Oh and my apologies, I forgot to mention the eezo dumps on the human colonies in an attempt to make more Biotics....most of the unborn babes die in utero or are born with numerous nasty problems (I can get the stats and direct words and source if you wish) upon exposure, a very small percentage are born with Biotics...thats not sickeningly ruthless and on par?

If you want to play the numbers game? I'd still say no. What Spectres done and continuosly have been doing are all in all much more destructive at times than Cerberus. Am I saying Cerberus is better because of it? Hell no in fact they could have been the Alliance version of the STG but they are too freelance and are liable to hurt the Alliance more than help it. Although a Rogue Spectre is no better at times.

 Refer to above forementioned activities....unless you would like me to extend the list further?

I have stop turning this into a pissing match what is your point in trying to scavenge for anything Cerberus did? 

You obviously have more faith in Miranda and other Cerberus lackies than I do...Miranda's SB Dossier itself describes her as ruthless....Then there's Pel and Kai Leng, the rules so far have been at all cost.

Kai Leng is an Assassin not a genocidal maniac. Sure he is a sociopath but he isn't a Spectre. He can kill the extra civillian here and there but if he goes too far of the mission Cerberus is taking care of him. Don't remember Pei. No duh Miranda is ruthless but she is on the more reasonable practical camp of Cerberus. LIke I said if they were reasonably provoked by an enemy similar to the Collectors or Reapers sure they would do it but just committing genocide with little reason other than "Your not human." Is unlikely for them. Cerberus sees the use in other species. 

I can continue with an endless counter debate....but you have continously misunderstood points, expect me to spell too much out in too much detail, etc... The one thing we can agree on, is to agree to disagree...ending the debate.