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The Spectres = The Council's Cerberus?


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#101
Xilizhra

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SandTrout wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

ME3.

Unknown what they're up to, at this point, or their motivations.

Ah, lovely, a point apparently uncomprehended by the majority of the TIM appreciation thread. Well done.

Regardless. I would love to reform the Council politically, because I feel it's too big to simply smash without causing unacceptable chaos. Cerberus lacks this, which is why I would like to simply destroy it altogether.

#102
SandTrout

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Xilizhra wrote...

Ah, lovely, a point apparently uncomprehended by the majority of the TIM appreciation thread. Well done.

Regardless. I would love to reform the Council politically, because I feel it's too big to simply smash without causing unacceptable chaos. Cerberus lacks this, which is why I would like to simply destroy it altogether.

Fair enough, though I personally expect so much chaos after the Reapers that disolving the Council won't be that big of a deal in any case.

We'll see how it turns out, I guess.

#103
Drone223

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Cerebers does have problems with Controlling there subjects in R&D 

In Overlord the the VI did work but it went rogue and killed most of the project personal

The Rachni clones went rogue because they had no queen
 
Gillian Greyson does show powerfull biotics in humans but she plans to take revenge on Cerberus

#104
Xilizhra

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SandTrout wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Ah, lovely, a point apparently uncomprehended by the majority of the TIM appreciation thread. Well done.

Regardless. I would love to reform the Council politically, because I feel it's too big to simply smash without causing unacceptable chaos. Cerberus lacks this, which is why I would like to simply destroy it altogether.

Fair enough, though I personally expect so much chaos after the Reapers that disolving the Council won't be that big of a deal in any case.

We'll see how it turns out, I guess.

Also, the Council seems to be a much more effective platform for introducing my master plan to dissolve monospecies governments and organizations. Cerberus is inherently divisive, and being in my own backyard, it's relatively easy to stop.

#105
marshalleck

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Xilizhra wrote...

Also, the Council seems to be a much more effective platform for introducing my master plan to dissolve monospecies governments and organizations.

Hah, good luck with that. A plan that flies in the face of simple biology can only fail. 

#106
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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SandTrout wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The second is that so far, only one Spectre has tried to destroy the galaxy, as compared to the whole of Cerberus apparently being in on that gig.

Only one Cerberus Op I can think of (overlord) presented a galaxy-wide threat.


Even that is debatable.

Regarding Arrival, sure, Cerberus can take some credit. It was a Cerberus ship and crew that made the completion of that mission possible. Cerberus funds all of your actions in ME2 except for the Normandy crash site so they can definitely take partial credit for all of it.

#107
SandTrout

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Xilizhra wrote...

Also, the Council seems to be a much more effective platform for introducing my master plan to dissolve monospecies governments and organizations. Cerberus is inherently divisive, and being in my own backyard, it's relatively easy to stop.

We'll argue about this insane plan after the Reapers have been dealt with.

#108
Xilizhra

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marshalleck wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Also, the Council seems to be a much more effective platform for introducing my master plan to dissolve monospecies governments and organizations.

Hah, good luck with that. A plan that flies in the face of simple biology can only fail. 

Not all of them. Health organizations and the like would need to stay that way. I was more referring to political ones.

#109
Raganheart

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Ieldra2 wrote...

So here they are, the Spectres.

They are called when failure is not an option
They do whatever it takes to get the job done.
Occasionally, one crosses a line too many - and nobody cares as long as it stays secret and the Council's interests don't suffer.

Doesn't sound too different from Cerberus to me. Except that the Spectres don't set their own policy. That doesn't make a great deal of difference for their victims though. They might as well be terrorists. The difference between secret police and terrorist is a matter of where you stand.

So why are people proud to be Spectres but hate Cerberus? In fact, it's because Cerberus' evil is pushed into our faces at every turn while the Spectres' remains mostly in the background, except for that little thing at the Dracon Trade Center. So the difference is...propaganda.

Spectres are above the law. Can anyone really believe they don't occasionally cross a moral event horizon like Cerberus did on Pragia? I don't believe that for a second. Given what the Council did to the quarians, I find it very plausible they wouldn't care overmuch if things were kept suitably secret.


Big thumbs up on this. I totally agree and think people should open their eyes about the council turning the other cheek when things like the Dracon Trade Center happen. I´m not saying Cerberus´s actions are ok, but Spectres and the Council are one in the same.

#110
marshalleck

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Xilizhra wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Also, the Council seems to be a much more effective platform for introducing my master plan to dissolve monospecies governments and organizations.

Hah, good luck with that. A plan that flies in the face of simple biology can only fail. 

Not all of them. Health organizations and the like would need to stay that way. I was more referring to political ones.

There is no way any species would allow its planetary/homeworld government to be dissolved. 

I can't see turians abandoning the Hierarchy in order to allow a multiracial affair take over on Palaven. Same for salarians, asari, humanity, elcor, hanar, etc. etc. with their worlds and colonies.

Modifié par marshalleck, 20 septembre 2011 - 09:05 .


#111
Arkitekt

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

The council[/i][i] stepped in to stop the turians.


Of-course they did. The Council didn't want a war and for all they knew at that point humanity was bigger than the turians were.



I think not.

#112
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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You are thinking so mundanely, Xilizhra. The future is the entire galaxy wired together as one great mind. After I've subdued the galaxy I'll disseminate nano-Reaper technology throughout the entire galaxy and use it to link us all together. It will be the dawn of a new age.

#113
SandTrout

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@Marshalleck & Xilizhra,

You two are getting pretty far off topic.

#114
SandTrout

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Saphra Deden wrote...

You are thinking so mundanely, Xilizhra. The future is the entire galaxy wired together as one great mind. After I've subdued the galaxy I'll disseminate nano-Reaper technology throughout the entire galaxy and use it to link us all together. It will be the dawn of a new age.

The same thing we do every night, Pinky....

#115
marshalleck

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SandTrout wrote...

@Marshalleck & Xilizhra,

You two are getting pretty far off topic.

it's fine

#116
Barquiel

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SandTrout wrote...

Who is the Council acountable to?


I think it's save to assume Tevos was elected to be the Asari councilor -> the asari can vote her out as well.
Velarn answers to the Turian Hierarchy
Udina/Anderson -> the alliance parliament?
the salarian -> no idea

#117
Xilizhra

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the salarian -> no idea

The various Dalatrasses, I believe.

#118
SandTrout

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Also, the Hierarchy is anything but democratic. It is actually more akin to a fascist governmental structure.

Edit: Cerberus is accountable to its varrious corporate and governemental doners. It's not completely self-sufficient.

Modifié par SandTrout, 20 septembre 2011 - 09:13 .


#119
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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The Council isn't accountable to anyone that we know of.

#120
Weskerr

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The Spectres are indeed a secret police organiztion. They have no accountability to the law and only answer to the government. The Council is neither either wholly a democratic government nor wholly an authoritarian government. They are a bit of both.

#121
marshalleck

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SandTrout wrote...

Also, the Hierarchy is anything but democratic. It is actually more akin to a fascist governmental structure.

Who called the Hierarchy democratic? Just because an appointed representative to the Council may answer to the government back home doesn't mean that government itself is a democracy.

#122
Weskerr

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Saphra Deden wrote...

The Council isn't accountable to anyone that we know of.


Then they're autocrats. Although I find it hard to believe that each Council member is not at least, in part, accountable to the individual species each represents. Or at the very least, each species who has a seat on the council has some leverage over its respective Councilor member.

#123
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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Weskerr wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

The Council isn't accountable to anyone that we know of.


Then they're autocrats. Although I find it hard to believe that each Council member is not at least, in part, accountable to the individual species each represents. Or at the very least, each species who has a seat on the council has some leverage over its respective Councilor member.


I'm sure that's the case. However as long as that Councilor acts in their species' interest the native government has no need to press on them. The Council is a sovereign government, after all.

#124
Weskerr

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Saphra Deden wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

The Council isn't accountable to anyone that we know of.


Then they're autocrats. Although I find it hard to believe that each Council member is not at least, in part, accountable to the individual species each represents. Or at the very least, each species who has a seat on the council has some leverage over its respective Councilor member.


I'm sure that's the case. However as long as that Councilor acts in their species' interest the native government has no need to press on them. The Council is a sovereign government, after all.


Agreed, If, however, any Councilor does not act in his/her species's best interest, then it wouldn't be surprising to find out that the native government of that councilor's species would apply pressure of some sort (political mostly) to change their councilor's actions and behavior.

#125
Omega4RelayResident

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Saphra Deden wrote...

The Council isn't accountable to anyone that we know of.


And neither is Cerberus... TIM thinks hes untouchable.