11 réponses à ce sujet

[pponmypupu]

i was thinking of making a ranged fighter thinking with the extra feats i could nab the ranged feats + weapon focus/specialization/criticals/etc. early on.  but then i realized thats basically all fighter can offer and most of those feats are gotten by level 9 or 10.  where does most of ranged damage come from usually?  are sneak attacks pretty much required with any ranged build?  do you have to pidgeon hole 9-10 levels into arcane archer (as well as elf) to be viable as a ranged?  does taking fighter over ranger have any benefit?
 
if it helps, im thinking maybe 9 levels in fighter to pick up all the ranged and weapon specific feats plus the high BAB and then dumping the rest into thief for sneak attack.

[The Fred]

Fighter is generally not a great class to take to L20, because all it gives are bonus feats. These are really useful, but only up to a point. You'll see a lot of builds only take a few levels to get what they need, often Fighter 4 for weapon specialisation or probably at most 8 for Greater Weapon Focus I think it is.

I don't think that ranged damage is necessarily any different to melee damage except for the fact that some bonuses do not apply. Remember that Sneak Attack only works within a certain range, even with ranged weapons, so you can't pewpew everyone from a distance.

It does depend on a certain extent on gear, though, since if you can get a bow with a good Mighty upgrade, you can pump Strength and get the same extra damage a melee weapon would get. The availability of magical ammo is also a factor. This is kind of true for most builds, though, since melee combat is a whole different ball game depending on magic level.

[Dann-J]

The best way to maximise damage with a bow is to take the rapid shot feats. Each shot may not do a huge amount of damage (compared to a fighter in melee), but they add up when they come thick and fast. The down side is that you constantly need to restock your arrow supplies.

A ranger with a few levels of fighter can make a great dedicated archer. As The Fred suggests, you only need enough fighter levels to reach Weapon Specialisation (Bow). The ranger class will take care of the Rapid Shot and Many Shot feats (with increasing bonuses for each). You can use the fighter's other feats for Point-Blank Shot and the feats that improve critical hits.

Sneak Attack would be the icing on the cake, but I've found that Rapid Shot tends to be deadly enough without it. Plus a few levels of rogue will decrease your BAB, compared to where it would be with just fighter and ranger levels. Although a single level of wizard might be worth it to become an Arcane Archer. Then you can also use wands and scrolls as backup if needed, and filling all your available level one spells with Identify can come in handy.

[dunniteowl]

I like taking Ranger with Bow feats. They get rapid shot and many shot very early on (for Fre~~ee!) and with those free feats/skills taken in at specific intervals, I spend most of my other feats on making my Ranger a decent two weapon fighter as well. Though as often as not, I favor a longsword and medium shield (for the extra AC) and then pick my Favored Enemies accordingly.

Using a bow most of the time, you have to decide where you're going to stand and whether or not you're going to let other party members run way out in front, or stand a defend your position. Also, switching ammo quickly and with an eye to the best type of damage you can do is a factor. It may cost for magical arrows, but I say, it's worth it and the gold generally just sort of flows to you in this game, so why not spend it?

The advice about a Mighty Bow is well taken and a Mighty +3 or +4 bow, combined with a decent strength bonus (you should have at least a 17 STR for any Ranger IMO to start with) and those combined with Gloves of Dexterity (better for Dex chance to hit with ranged weapons) and you can make a real killing with a Bow focused Ranger.

Always bear in mind that a little care and setup with your hotkeys for your bow and for your melee weapons groups is worth more to you than most magic spells in this case. And don't forget to make sure you have plenty of healing kits, potions, etc. for your Ranger. Ranger spells are so gimped from the original Ranger class that you're better off not relying on them as a Ranger. Again, that's just IMPO (P = player's)

[painofdungeoneternal]

The different ways to do an archer ( at least off the top of my head ):

Zen Archer, a max wisdom cleric with the zen archery feat, dash of monk if you can swing it for AC ( ie if you don't mind cheese ), with dex trailing your wisdom. At level 21 take divine champion and get epic wisdom 1-10 all the way to level 30. This is a full powered caster, with DCs that can take down almost anything, and a bow that just won't quit.

Divine Archer, focus on charisma and dexterity, and do some turn undead/power attack to get the divine might/divine shield line of feats. Your arrows will do divine damage, which is nothing to sneeze at. Probably one of the better builds i've seen in practice. ( paladin/cleric both work on this ) You could do a zen archer even with this.

Rogue Archer, all dex and sneak damage. Shortbows and halflings.

Ranger - pretty well known, just choose archery instead of 2 weapon fighting.

Arcane Archer, do a half elf or elf, take a single level in wizard or bard for divine spells, and then do ranger/fighter/divine champion.

[I_Raps]

pponmypupu

Somewhere in my vast horde of characters is a fighter specialized in longbow.  It's as good a character as any, don't worry.  You will find good uses for all your feats.  You want DEX primarily, but you also want some STR (there are Mighty 5 bows available, so you want 20 STR at least (modded, of course).  It - like all archers - is one of the funnest classes to play, as well, because you get to be more active.  The biggie - hardly mentioned so far in this thread - is Manyshot, which is a target-and-click attack.  You will be ripping folks up to great and very satisfying effect with that.

The feats you want are Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus and Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus and Specialization, and Improved Critical with your chosen weapon, Rapidshot, Improved Rapid Shot, Manyshot, Dodge - Mobility - Spring Attack.  That's 12 -- pretty much all you get before Epic, right?  The general feats you're going to take include Blindfight etc., the same as anyone else.  In Epic, you will get One Shot, DEX boosts, Epic Focus and Specialization, maybe Epic Prowess, Armor Skin, etc.  You're not going to run out of useful Feat choices.

You don't need Sneak Attack;  don't let me deter you if you want to go that route, but it's a choice - you will have to give up something.  And having full effect versus Ancient Vampires is its own reward.  Likewise, Arcane Archer is a different choice, with its own strengths and weaknesses, but not necessary;  and not even available to the non-elf majority.

[dunniteowl]

I said it first, hah hah! I didn't capitalize it, but yeah, Many Shot is the shizzle. Isn't the Rapid Shot and and Improved Rapid Shot for crossbows? And I agree, sneak attack is for back stabbing cowards. Suck on that all you thieves disguised as rogues. That's right, I said it, COWARDS! Step up and fight me in my face. (You know I'm just kidding, some of my best friends are back stabbing thieves -- true story!)

I wish the monk had better options. Imagine a bow wielding monk who can catch arrows, reload and shoot right back. Coolness!

dno

[Dann-J]

You're thinking of Rapid Reload, which improves the attack rate for crossbows. Rapid Shot is basically Flurry of Blows for archers.

[I_Raps]

DannJ wrote...

You're thinking of Rapid Reload, which improves the attack rate for crossbows. Rapid Shot is basically Flurry of Blows for archers.

You're both almost right - Rapid Reload allows you to use Rapid Shot and Manyshot with a crossbow.  Bows (and don't forget slings! - /Frodo) don't need it.

[pponmypupu]

well that was an enlightening read!

[The Fred]

Just bear in mind that the power of ranged is somewhat situational. Most people prefer melee because the OC(s) favour it, to a certain extent, with close-ranged battles and super-powerful melee weapon crafting. Something like Last of the Danaan or Legacy of White Plume Mountain is a bit more suited to ranged combat, though that doesn't mean it can't be effective in almost any setting.

With stuff like Point Blank shot, your ranged weapon is also your melee weapon, in effect. However, the big bonus of ranged attacks are that you can shoot people who can't hit you. Perhaps getting companions with Haste and Slow spells and suchlike could be an effective strategy for hit-and-run tactics?

[Haplose]

Well, for a ranged-specialized character it's tough to beat an Arcane Archer. +5 Attack/Damage? Yes, please! Even if in practice that's +4 Attack/+5 Damage, because you need to "waste"a level on a caster. On the other hand, you could pick practiced caster to make these Shield and Mage Armor spells last a while. And as you're not carrying a real shield, that spell might really come in handy.
Something like Ranger 6/Wizard 1/ AA 9 works real nice in modules like The Last of the Danaan.

Pain mentioned a Divine Archer. This should work all right. I've played one of those in NWN1 on a roleplaying PW server. The problem was... even though I've had some 15 AA levels and my ranged AB was going through the roof, I tended to stay with the trusty old scimmitar and go toe-to-toe with enemies. The cleric buffs made it real easy to hit everyone anyway and the killing took 1/2 of the time in melee, due to all the bonuses that didn't apply to ranged, but did in melee. You're still going to want at least 13 Str for Divine Might or rather 21 Str for Epic Divine Might and as much Cha, as you can get. This won't leave so much room for high Dex/Wis. So often it may turn out that going melee is the better option.

Well, one other ranged character that can be pretty effecive I guess is a variation of the Zen cleric archer - the Zen StormLord with added elemental damage + 3 enhancement to throwing axes and shurikens.

Modifié par Haplose, 26 septembre 2011 - 09:54 .