37 réponses à ce sujet

[Aradace]

Arthur Cousland wrote...

Yes, if something in a rpg or fantasy setting doesn't quite make sense, just say "It's magic!".

One of the many fun parts of videogames is being able to escape reality, and going on to fight dragons while casting spells from your character's fingertips.  It might not be "realistic", but that's why it's fun!

And hence why even though I find doing backflips in heavy armor impossible, I still find it "fun" because that is precisely why Im a gamer to begin with.  Because games are fun and I get to escape reality for a bit 

[Salaya]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

To see a man survive a 10 ton dragon strike, is not only ridiculous, it is bat**** crazy unrealistic (and not just the fighting a dragon part). A man would simply break every bone in his body after recieving a hit from a creature that size. Backflipping in plate armor can at least be explained by "the material is special" or some such (lame but at least feasible). The survivng a dragon part, can't be explained. Both should be accepted as happening though, since it is a fantasy game, and makes no attempt to revere the laws of physics.

You can explain both cases with numerous reasons. The fact that probably all of those explanations are extremely forced or artificial, makes both cases unbelivables. (The material is special, the dragon do not wants to kill our charcters with one blow, the templars have incredibly good training in doing jumps, shields of thedas are made of incredible super special material, etc, etc).

But, even in this case, what differs from each other is that seeing a High Dragon smashing your warior is not ridiculous as an image, or as per se; what we find ridiculous, probably, is the explanation behind this happening -and this, is what makes the fact unbelvable, not ridiculous. The acrobacies from rogue templars not only have forced explanations, the animations, the image of the acrobacies per se, are easy seen as ridiculous.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Salaya wrote...

I think the difference here is actually seeing the action taking place. And even so, unbelivable does not mean ridiculous. Seeing rogue templars jumping like ninjas and dissapearing is not only incredible, it's also ridiculous. Seeing a party fighting an oversized dragon is unbelivable... but ridiculous? I don't think so.

Exactly. It is unbelievable that 4 guys and girls with sticks and spells are going to kick a giant lizard and her wave spawning brood's asses. However, the fight itself was not ridiculous. The dragons moved as I would expect winged quadrapeds to move, if such a thing existed.

However, the amount of flexibility and agility that would be required to successfully execute a backflip and land on one's feet, ready to dish out some pain ninja-style is simply not achievable in heavy plate. Let alone the raw power needed to launch oneself high enough off the ground to execute such a move. That stretches into the realm of ridiculous. Not to mention how pretty near impossible it would be to "stealth" in heavy plate. Unless Kirkwall's templars are snorting some wicked lyrium that allows them to fly and become instant kung fu masters, it stretches the willing suspension of disbelief to breaking point. Into facepalm territory.

I wouldn't care if the templars could pull off some really wierd things, given their whole lyrium and anti-magic capabilities, as I would expect such things from such specialized warriors. However, busting some moves Bruce Lee would envy is not something I would expect from the templars. It just doesn't fit. At all.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The fight itself is extremely unbelieveable. You are not gonna survive a hit from such a big creature, no matter how much armor you are waering. It is as simple as that.

[Andraste_Reborn]

Since we have no information about what the rogue Templar's make their armor out of, I didn't find this particularly brain-breaking. It could be a metal as light as aluminium, for all we know.

[jamesp81]

Aradace wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

I think the dual-weapon wielding DA2 templars are identified as "Templar Assassins - and they do seem to be rogues, since they do that tricky little backflip-backstab manuever.

Am I the only one who can't help laughing when I see a Templar, wearing rather heavy looking armor, pull off a back flip?

Real plate armor is not nearly so heavy and unwiedly as popular culture thinks it is.

True, but it definitely weighs more than Chain Mail.  Which, correct me if Im wrong because I very well could be, is at least 40+ pounds?  So, wouldnt that make Plate Mail around at least, say, 60-80 pounds? With that being the case, I want to see someone put on a set of Plate Armor and do a backflip.  Not because I want  see if it can be done, but because I want to watch the impending neck snap that will occur when said person lands on their head.  And no, trampolines or other ways of modifying a person's natural jump height are not permitted solely for my own entertainment purposes 

Which in essence is why I dont let it bother me because I know it's a fantasy setting.  But I do gigle every time I see it though because I think of the afore mentioned scenario where the person lands on their head.

Actually, full plate weighs around 45 pounds.  I've seen video of people doing cartwheels in it.  Well designed plate also distributes the weight evenly over the whole body, so no one muscle group is overly strained by wearing it.  Modern soldiers carry at least this much gear, and it's usually not as well distributed over the entire body either, yet they get around just fine.

Basically, if a man were capable of doing a Chuck Norris backflip, with only minimal training he could do it in full plate.

The popular culture's perception of two handed swords weighing 30 pounds and full plate being so heavy that a man could barely move in it are all myths.

Modifié par jamesp81, 22 septembre 2011 - 02:34 .

[jamesp81]

Aradace wrote...

Arthur Cousland wrote...

Yes, if something in a rpg or fantasy setting doesn't quite make sense, just say "It's magic!".

One of the many fun parts of videogames is being able to escape reality, and going on to fight dragons while casting spells from your character's fingertips.  It might not be "realistic", but that's why it's fun!

And hence why even though I find doing backflips in heavy armor impossible, I still find it "fun" because that is precisely why Im a gamer to begin with.  Because games are fun and I get to escape reality for a bit 

See above.  If a man has the skill to do a backflip move in regular clothes, it only takes minimal training to do it in full plate.  It's crazy how many myths have grown up around plate armor being unwieldy.

[Aradace]

jamesp81 wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Arthur Cousland wrote...

Yes, if something in a rpg or fantasy setting doesn't quite make sense, just say "It's magic!".

One of the many fun parts of videogames is being able to escape reality, and going on to fight dragons while casting spells from your character's fingertips.  It might not be "realistic", but that's why it's fun!

And hence why even though I find doing backflips in heavy armor impossible, I still find it "fun" because that is precisely why Im a gamer to begin with.  Because games are fun and I get to escape reality for a bit 

See above.  If a man has the skill to do a backflip move in regular clothes, it only takes minimal training to do it in full plate.  It's crazy how many myths have grown up around plate armor being unwieldy.

  You are NOT realistically doing a backflip in nearly 80 (depending on the make/type of plate you're wearing) pounds of armor on you.  Infantry soldiers sure as crap cant do it (and I used to run around with nearly 100lbs worth of equipment strapped to me.) But again, it doesnt really matter because it's a fantasy game.  My point is, training or no, you are NOT doing a backflip in a 60-80 pound set of full plate armor, its just not happening.  Cartwheels are different and in no way require the same amount of skill, agility, or dexterity as performing a backflip.  

Side note: You best do your research again bro because Full plate does NOT weigh 45 pounds lol...Try closer to 60-65.  

Modifié par Aradace, 22 septembre 2011 - 03:48 .

[jbrand2002uk]

While this wont entirely justify the templar in full armour doing ninja style flips during the game at some shops and sometimes as a gift from the knight commander you can get a "templar light issue" armour which is likely what the templar hunters wear making it more possible than if in standard or heavy issue armour.

Although Aradace is right on the weight of chainmail it is quite heavy as during the summer months i used to take part in re-inactments of english civil war battles like the siege of Rochester Castle etc wearing full chainmail under my plate armour, though sadly cant do it anymore since my health has gone in a downwards spiral and i doubt they had wheelchair archers lol

[Wulfram]

The basic Templars wear a mixed leather/plate armour that might not be all that heavy. But the Templar Hunters wear a heavier version.

It would be much better if they used a reskinned version of the seeker armour Leliana is wearing at the end of the game.

[DKJaigen]

Aradace wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Arthur Cousland wrote...

Yes, if something in a rpg or fantasy setting doesn't quite make sense, just say "It's magic!".

One of the many fun parts of videogames is being able to escape reality, and going on to fight dragons while casting spells from your character's fingertips.  It might not be "realistic", but that's why it's fun!

And hence why even though I find doing backflips in heavy armor impossible, I still find it "fun" because that is precisely why Im a gamer to begin with.  Because games are fun and I get to escape reality for a bit 

See above.  If a man has the skill to do a backflip move in regular clothes, it only takes minimal training to do it in full plate.  It's crazy how many myths have grown up around plate armor being unwieldy.

  You are NOT realistically doing a backflip in nearly 80 (depending on the make/type of plate you're wearing) pounds of armor on you.  Infantry soldiers sure as crap cant do it (and I used to run around with nearly 100lbs worth of equipment strapped to me.) But again, it doesnt really matter because it's a fantasy game.  My point is, training or no, you are NOT doing a backflip in a 60-80 pound set of full plate armor, its just not happening.  Cartwheels are different and in no way require the same amount of skill, agility, or dexterity as performing a backflip.  

Side note: You best do your research again bro because Full plate does NOT weigh 45 pounds lol...Try closer to 60-65.  

You can do back flips and handstand in full plate armor. their are even accounts of such things in medieval writings. and 60 or 80 pounds of armor is not that heavy if all the muscles carry it. But your information is incorrect in this regard as well as a full plate armor of temperd steel usually only weights 45 pouinds. in fact chainmail causes much more fatigue because only several muscles are involved. Also keep in mind that knights have practiced all their lives with plate armor. To them it would feel like a second skin not armor at all.

[jamesp81]

Aradace wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Arthur Cousland wrote...

Yes, if something in a rpg or fantasy setting doesn't quite make sense, just say "It's magic!".

One of the many fun parts of videogames is being able to escape reality, and going on to fight dragons while casting spells from your character's fingertips.  It might not be "realistic", but that's why it's fun!

And hence why even though I find doing backflips in heavy armor impossible, I still find it "fun" because that is precisely why Im a gamer to begin with.  Because games are fun and I get to escape reality for a bit 

See above.  If a man has the skill to do a backflip move in regular clothes, it only takes minimal training to do it in full plate.  It's crazy how many myths have grown up around plate armor being unwieldy.

  You are NOT realistically doing a backflip in nearly 80 (depending on the make/type of plate you're wearing) pounds of armor on you.  Infantry soldiers sure as crap cant do it (and I used to run around with nearly 100lbs worth of equipment strapped to me.) But again, it doesnt really matter because it's a fantasy game.  My point is, training or no, you are NOT doing a backflip in a 60-80 pound set of full plate armor, its just not happening.  Cartwheels are different and in no way require the same amount of skill, agility, or dexterity as performing a backflip.  

Side note: You best do your research again bro because Full plate does NOT weigh 45 pounds lol...Try closer to 60-65.  

The weights varied.  Some sets undoubtedly did weigh in the 60 lbs range, others were lighter.  A man who can do the chuck norris backflip as seen in the game should be able to eventually learn to do it in plate, although I doubt there are many people that could pull that stunt anyway, regardless of equipment.

Also, consider that the 100 lbs of stuff you used to carry wasn't as evenly distributed across your body as well designed plate would be.  The people who designed that stuff were not fools.  The even weight distribution allowed the user an amazing amount of mobility and kept fatigue down a lot more than most realize.

Full plate didn't do well on muddy terrain, though.  Not very good traction.  On dry ground it was hell on wheels.  Or horseback.  Or whatever.

Modifié par jamesp81, 23 septembre 2011 - 02:47 .

[jamesp81]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

While this wont entirely justify the templar in full armour doing ninja style flips during the game at some shops and sometimes as a gift from the knight commander you can get a "templar light issue" armour which is likely what the templar hunters wear making it more possible than if in standard or heavy issue armour.

Although Aradace is right on the weight of chainmail it is quite heavy as during the summer months i used to take part in re-inactments of english civil war battles like the siege of Rochester Castle etc wearing full chainmail under my plate armour, though sadly cant do it anymore since my health has gone in a downwards spiral and i doubt they had wheelchair archers lol

I would be curious about the manufacture of your replica armor.  I don't know how good yours is.  I know that a lot of those replicas are made with lower quality steels than the originals, the result often being an armor set that is considerably heavier than the original would've been.  Same with swords.  The perception among some that a broadsword is excessively heavy comes from people picking up pot metal replicas and not realizing the real deal was of a much higher quality steel, weighed considerably less, and was stronger as a weapon as well.