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[Han Shot First]

My Shep is an Alliance Marine through & through. His loyalty is first and foremost with the Alliance.

He's also loyal to the Council. Perhaps not personally to loyal to some of the people currently on the Council (except for Anderson), but he supports the system and believes humanity should cooperate with  the galactic community as a whole.

He despises Cerberus and worked with them only out of necessity, and he neither likes nor trusts the Illusive Man.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 21 septembre 2011 - 05:57 .

[darkhorsedan]

My Shep believes in what the Council stands for and thinks it's great when it works, though he is frustrated at the way they continue to bury their head in the sand and dislikes the way politicians often use people like himself as pawns in their little political games. Looking after him when it suits them, and dumping him when it suits their interests too... hence why he chose Anderson to be on the council.

He's also still an Alliance boy at heart and believes in a strong humanity that should support and be part of the galactic community and not dominate it. Obviously he hates Cerberus (and only agreed to work with them so easily because the game demanded he should).

I'm surprised there are that many people who think Cerberus are okay.

[sevach]

I'm surprised that people don't see that the Alliance is as bad and manipulative as Cerberus...

[nelly21]

sevach wrote...

I'm surprised that people don't see that the Alliance is as bad and manipulative as Cerberus...

This. I've read a few of the books. The Alliance does some illegal stuff too. They ain't as squeaky clean as some people think.

[darkhorsedan]

True but at least with a legal organisation like the Alliance there is an issue of accountability which imposes certain limits on how far the Alliance can go. As an illegal organisation Cerberus has no accountability.

Like any government or large organisation the Alliance and the Council are far from perfect but they are no where near as dirty as Cerberus is.

[Saaziel]

sevach wrote...

I'm surprised that people don't see that the Alliance is as bad and manipulative as Cerberus...

I don't want to speak for others but,

For one thing : Shepard's background (if memory serves , its been a while) is Alliance military. He/she is most easily pictured as honour bound to the Alliance. Moreover Cerberus did try and kill Shep in Me1 ; Not a good first impression if you ask me.

Second , Accountability : Even if the Alliance were to have done worst than Cerberus , it would still be accountable to a political legislature. Something important if you're to represent humanity.

Finally , competence : The Illusive Man couldn't manage a ****** with 3 hands. He wasted the best chance at defeating the Reapers; His operation is too small to face the challenges up ahead. On the other hand the Alliance is an establish body ,with diplomatic ties to other species, more resources than Cerberus could ever get , is responsible for humanity's Space fairing & colonisation , Military prowess and for acquiring a seat on the Council.

I don't think its a question of people choosing the Alliance for being neither bad or manipulative.

Modifié par Saaziel, 21 septembre 2011 - 07:18 .

[Han Shot First]

darkhorsedan wrote...

True but at least with a legal organisation like the Alliance there is an issue of accountability which imposes certain limits on how far the Alliance can go. As an illegal organisation Cerberus has no accountability.

Like any government or large organisation the Alliance and the Council are far from perfect but they are no where near as dirty as Cerberus is.

Pretty much this.

Also while the Alliance may not be squeaky clean (no government is), it isn't on the same level as Cerberus, which has no ethics at all. Ceberus is willing to do anything to achieve human dominance no matter how unethical the experiment, no matter what the cost, and with an ends justifies the means mentality that has lead to atrocities committed even against their own species.

[SandTrout]

TobyHasEyes wrote...

@ Sandboy

It is a matter of interpretation as to whether you regard the actions of the Council as 'sacrificing lesser species because it is convenient to their interests at the time' or whether you consider them as a group which attempts to avoid all-out war, sometimes to the extent of being overly comfortable with not responding to aggression

There is some room for interpretation of intent, but most situations display notable incompetence on the council's part. I'll grant you that the Turians are the most apparently competent of the Big 3, but they're not the nicest either.

Was Eden Prime a case of the Council abandoning humanity to the Geth? Or was it a reluctance to be drawn into a conflict which occurred when the Alliance colonized areas they had been warned about?

It's incompetence to ignore the Geth threat 300 years ago as they were wiping out a Citadel species and then fail to react to sudden Geth aggression in the Traverse. If it were just Terminus Pirates and what-not, I could understand this line of Reasoning, but a sudden, unprovoked assault by a synthetic race that had violently rejected all attempts at diplomacy for 3 centuries? That's about as good of a reason to mobilize the fleets as you can get.

Is the fate of the Quarians a case of the Council being pleased with the loss of the Quarian power base, and simply kicking them when they are down? Or is it a refusal to get drawn into a war of the Quarian's own creation? (though even I would concede that they could have done more to aid the Quarians finding a new home)

Its still valuing their own interests ahead of member species. Also, the Mourning War was started because the Quarians were afraid that they would suffer diplomatic sanctions because they had accidentally created AI. The Council's policies are most certainly relevant to the issue, even if we have no way of knowing if the Geth would have rebelled if the Quarians had not attempted to deactivate them en-mass. In this particular case, the Council could have preempted the Geth as a potential threat to organic life then, rather than just watch in apathy. This is a case of both incompetence and malice.

Was the use of the Krogan in the Rachni Wars simply a 'human' shield so that the Council races wouldn't have to commit numbers in combat? Or was it a decision reached after many Council forces had given their lives to the cause, and one based on the Krogan ability to handle the conditions necessary to reach the Rachni Queens?

It was done because the Council species were unable to defeat the Rachni, and then unable to defeat the Krogan. This is simply another example of their incompetence.

I am not saying that they have a perfect history, nor am I saying that a more generous interpretation is in each case the right one. I just object to the idea that anyone who sees the Council any differently to the skeptical interpretation is being naive to the extreme

Fair enough, but the evidence is of either malice, incompetence, or both.

[DragonIroh001]

For my Paragade Shepard, At this current point none.

He lost faith in the Alliance, when he heard how they left your body to rot, used his image and then promptly started making defamatory statements about him, once he wasn't useful to them anymore. Has a nagging feeling that Hackett used him with regards to Bahak.

Cerberus, despite never directly encountering them* and especially TIM, weren't winning any points with him, especially the stunts he pulled with Horizon and the Collector ship, and the things he saw that they were doing "for humanity", like Overlord and Teltin. Gave TIM a big FU by blowing the Collector Base up.

The old Council, he got frustrated by how they kept criticizing him on how to do his job (Feros anyone!), Sacrificed so that the 5th fleet could concentrate on the bigger threat, Sovereign. Has no real opinion on the new council, except he dislikes Udina more than ever.

* Didn't do the Kahoku set of missions, only heard about them from third party source like Exogeni.

[PhantomSpectre]

My Shep had no allegiances any longer.

He did save Council, but it turns out that they still continued to be idiots and not believing in Reaper threat. Now he had lost his fate on them.

Alliance. They were fast to use Shep and his fame to their own benefit, but even faster to abandon him, when he wasn't useful anymore. And even when he was back, Alliance didn't care much. So, basically, Alliance declared Shep dead, so let's keep it that way.

Cerberus.He was forced to work with them for greater good. But now that Collectors are dead, he had cut all ties into Cerberus. Now his only business with them is to kill as many of them as possible and eliminate the whole organization, if it's just possible.

So, my Shep have no allegiances, but because of current Reaper threat, he will still work with Alliance and Council. But after Reapers are defeated, he will end all connecting with both of them and retire. If they have something against it, they can go to hell. My Shep had done his part and it's time for well deserved retirement in some nice and warm with great company (LI).

[Icinix]

Batarians.

Feeling guilty over the destruction Shep caused (even without being there) - Shep dedicates their life to helping Batarian orphans.

[YouthCultureForever]

Han Shot First wrote...

My Shep is an Alliance Marine through & through. His loyalty is first and foremost with the Alliance.

He's also loyal to the Council. Perhaps not personally to loyal to some of the people currently on the Council (except for Anderson), but he supports the system and believes humanity should cooperate with  the galactic community as a whole.

He despises Cerberus and worked with them only out of necessity, and he neither likes nor trusts the Illusive Man.

This. And your other post about Cerberus. Our Sheps would get along grand.

[eye basher]

Irrelevant they already said your back with the Alliance in ME3.

[Golden Owl]

I can see many Sheps going all John Grissom (Revelation) after defeating the Reapers...I'm quite sure mine will be.

Looking at the above debates going on...my two cents....Alliance, Council and Cerberus all seem to have way too much in common for my Sheps comfort.

[Valdrane78]

To be perfectly honest, I really don't know. It all depends on how they handle themselves when I confront them and how the trial turns out. But I stand ready to aid the Alliance and kick those Reaper dogs to the curb.

[Zakatak757]

Vanessa will fight for the Alliance.
Soren will fight for Cerberus.
And Aspan will fight for her, herself, and the titular individual.

[LadyofRivendell]

Easily, Alliance. I believe they have a strong code, sense of right and wrong, and abide by the laws. The Council is just backhanded power, and Cerberus is a terrorist group (despite what they may claim in ME2).

[sevach]

The Alliance is pretty much using Shepard from the beggining.
Their front, Udina, is the biggest a-hole in the galaxy, they have their fair share of dirty projects, and where connected to Cerberus at least up until the SR-1 construction (if they really split and aren't supporting behind the scenes).

Cerberus is no good at all, i won't say otherwise, but at least they are more straight shooters instead of Alliance hypocrisy.

The Council is a semi-dictatorship, that doesn't really care about the little guy, and turns a blind eye every so often.
I haven't seen they do anything evil per se... they are just, to quote a friend of mine, "made up of a bunch of blind stubborn morons" lol

[capn233]

Interesting topic.

Cerberus was an ally for no other reason than the enemy of my enemy is my friend... He wouldn't be loyal to Cerberus unless the goals are still reasonably aligned. It looks like they might not be after ME2. Sort of a pity since they have given you at least as much support as the Alliance in the games (in many ways more), and generally better intel.

The Council... was loyal to them in the first game, but they weren't interested in helping Shepard in the second one. Didn't believe anything about Reapers, or at least dented it publicly. At least they reinstated his Spectre status which is worth a lot. Now not as loyal as would have been, even if Shepard still wants to serve the galactic community as a whole.

The Alliance. Gave him the first Normandy, outside that you had to clean up messes for them without much assistance or even intel throughout ME1. After you come back from the dead, they had helped sweep everything from the first game under the rug. Did not support Shepard looking into the Collectors. Then they send him on a "political suicide" mission in Batarian space and then put you on trial for it. We will have to see how the beginning of ME3 goes.

If anything Shepard is predominantly loyal to his comrades and shipmates, not some big bureaucratic organizations at this point.

Modifié par capn233, 22 septembre 2011 - 05:15 .

[jbblue05]

I don't understand people complaining about being used Shepard knew what he/she signed up for.

Why do people complain about the Alliance abandoning them, Shepard was last seen in the vacuum of space what exactly are they supposed to do? The Alliance probably did more for you than you think with their connections with Cerberus

[SandTrout]

jbblue05 wrote...

I don't understand people complaining about being used Shepard knew what he/she signed up for.

Why do people complain about the Alliance abandoning them, Shepard was last seen in the vacuum of space what exactly are they supposed to do? The Alliance probably did more for you than you think with their connections with Cerberus

Quite true. Soldiers sign up with the unspoken agreement that they are tools for their respective governments to use. Being used by the Alliance that trained you, fed you, and paid you for the last decade or two is part of the contract.

Also, the Alliance didn't send you to blow up the Mass Relay, they sent you to get Kensen out of Batarian Hands. After she's at the Rho facility, everything else was Shepard's perogative, not part of the mission that Hacket sent him on.

[Leonia]

But the Alliance could have done more to protect their colonies instead of banking on Shepard to solve the mystery with the Collectors.

They also knew that going into batarian space was going to aggravate the Hegemony but that didn't stop them letting Kenson and her team do their research.

They are also responsible for the discovery of Sovereign (read: Revelation).

Not exactly a stellar track record.

Modifié par leonia42, 22 septembre 2011 - 06:24 .

[SandTrout]

leonia42 wrote...

But the Alliance could have done more to protect their colonies instead of banking on Shepard to solve the mystery with the Collectors.

They are not Alliance collonies, though. They are independent human collonies that chose to go to the Terminus Systems in order to escape Alliance authority. The Alliance has no authority and no obligation to defend those collonies.

Even so, they still sent a skilled agent (Vermire survivor) to the region to gather intell on the situation, which was more than they were required to do.

[Leonia]

Regardless, they didn't seem too concerned about human lives which forced Shepard (with Cerberus' help) to do their job for them.