172 réponses à ce sujet

[clerkenwell]

Wow, that's a pretty good catch. It seems to me that he should be promoted to the rank of Captain as CO of the Normandy.

[racer700]

i just shepard to go up a rank, he's been the same for two games... saved the galaxy twice now and yet, nothing, makes you wonder if he ever get promoted.

[Orion1836]

<- Career Air Force, and yes at the moment space is largely handled by the USAF. However, there have already been pushes at forming a new space arm given the increased role space assets continue to play in modern conflict. Current international treaties forbid the weaponization of space, so we're not going to be seeing orbital ion cannons or (more likely) kinetic energy weapons, but there's nothing against using space to support military operations (GPS, SATCOM, JDAMs, etc).

Regarding Shepard's rank, these were good catches by both the OP and Mail Turtle. It's clear that the Alliance ranks are pretty different than anything we currently have in the US military. Flag officers (generals and admirals) typically have insigia that are much different than company or field grade officers. From what we've seen, Anderson has only one more bar as an admiral than he did as a captain. If we make the assumption that he's a full admiral as opposed to a rear admiral, that would mean he's an O-8 in the Systems Alliance per the codex. For four bars of insignia to cover eight ranks, you'd need to use alternating thin bars, kind of similar to the way the current US Navy insignias work:



That matches with Shepard's two bars representing lieutenant commander (which he has been up until now), but then again Kaidan has two bars, and we know he's a staff commander. Potentially, this could just be an oversight on Bioware's part or (more probably) they never really standardized the rank insignia and just let the artists do whatever they felt was appropriate.

I would like to see Shepard get promoted, but at the same time I highly doubt Bioware would drop the "Commander Shepard" name they have used for so long. If he gets promoted, it'll probably be from lieutenant commander to staff commander. That way, he moves up while still being called "Commander Shepard."

For the record, an officer in the US Navy can still be in command of a ship, and called "captain," without holding the rank of captain (O-6). Typically, only the most prestigious ships (such as carriers) are commanded by actual captains - smaller boats can be commanded by ranks as low as lieutenant commander or even lieutenant.

Modifié par Orion1836, 22 septembre 2011 - 03:49 .

[JeffZero]

Insightful post, Orion. Thank you!

[capn233]

Orion1836 wrote...
For the record, an officer in the US Navy can still be in command of a ship, and called "captain," without holding the rank of captain (O-6). Typically, only the most prestigious ships (such as carriers) are commanded by actual captains - smaller boats can be commanded by ranks as low as lieutenant commander or even lieutenant.

Aren't frigates and up (basically all the warships) commanded by at least full Commanders (O5)?  Not Lt Cmdrs?

But yes, clearly not all commanded by officers with rank of Captain.  Still can be called captain or skipper.

[Yakko77]

JediMaster_Murph wrote...

i thought shep was navy, not marines

I think the term "Marine" is generically used to describe his role at times.  IIRC, Shep identifies him/herself as being in the Alliance Navy at times.  Until recently, the USMC was under the Dept. of the Navy.  Maybe the Alliance works the same way.  Alliance naval personnel simply assume the role of "Marine" when engaged in groundside combat duties.

[Yakko77]

mango smoothie wrote...

Zakatak757 wrote...

footballzach50 wrote...

Would it be possible that he is not Military or Navy, since he is in space it could be a new group, correct? Navy = sea
Army = land
????? = space

Space IS Navy.

It has been that way in every sci-fi. The Navy was meerly converted to space. Spaceships replace Seaships. Caskets are put out an airlock, rather then dumped in the sea. All the same traditions, really.

The USS Enterprise was an aircraft carrier long before it was a ship in Star Trek.

Actually this is something in most Scifi shows/movies I have a problem with. Most countries today have it so any military space programs is actually part of the Air Force. In reality any future spaceships would be under Airforce command.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force

In the limited albeit vital role the USAF provides in space, if/when our militiaries attain actual warships in space, I imagine it'll involve the formation of a whole new military branch and involve personel from all the other military departments/branches.  A nearby AFB (Offutt, former SAC HQ) is now part of StratCom (Strategic Command, is involved with controlling all sea, air and land based nuclear weapons)  and the command of that base is very joint operation and IIRC the command of it alternates between a AF General and a Navy Admiral.

[capn233]

USMC is still part of the Dept of the Navy.

Modifié par capn233, 22 septembre 2011 - 04:14 .

[Yakko77]

capn233 wrote...

USMC is still part of the Dept of the Navy.

Ah, I think I ws confusing a push to make it a separate department not long ago as being successful.  I guess this former Squid can still use all the tried and true jokes.

M Y
A ss
R ides
I n
N avy
E quipment
S IR!!!



Edit:  Joking aside, it makes sense to keep them unified not just for traditional but for practical reasons.  The two are and will forever be linked.

Modifié par Yakko77, 22 septembre 2011 - 04:26 .

[Valdrane78]

I am going to have to disagree with you Orion, if your interpretation is correct then the Fleet Admiral would have 4 1/2 bars. This seems highly unlikely that the fleet admiral would be granted half a bar. I would also go out on a limb and say that not all officer chevrons are bars. More than likely, the upper echalon of officers have bars while the lower ranks of officers are denoted in some other way. So it could look like this.

* 2nd Lieutenant
** 1st Lieutenant
*** Staff Lieutenant
*I* Lieutenant Commander
I Staff Commander
II Captain/Major
III Rear Admiral/General
IIII Admiral
IIIII Fleet Admiral

This is of course all conjecture, we have no real hard evidence, nor ehave we actually ever seen what Alliance chevrons look like. As it has been said earlier in the thread the Rear Admiral had 1 bar. So it could possibly just be a design in the uniforms.

My original post is just my interpretation of what I saw on the video. Thanks for you rpost, it did give me something to think about.

[capn233]

There was a recent push to rename it to Department of the Navy and Marine Corps, but it didn't fly.

edit: regarding the ranks, I think getting someone at Bioware to comment would be the easiest thing to do since fictional ranks in a fictional organization would be hard to predict.

Still think Shep should have to be a full Cmdr to have a frigate, but who cares what I think

Oh and I think it is interesting that in ME1 the only person that calls you skipper is Ashley... nobody else calls you skipper or even captain...

Modifié par capn233, 22 septembre 2011 - 04:39 .

[Valdrane78]

Whiel I appreciate the bumps, please stay on topic. This thread concerns Shep's rank and the rank structure of the Alliance. It does not include Air Force space exploration or who controls space exploration in the future. So I again ask you to please stay on topic.

[Yakko77]

capn233 wrote...

There was a recent push to rename it to Department of the Navy and Marine Corps, but it didn't fly.

THAT'S what I was thinking of.  Thanks.

As for the ranking structure, it seems the Alliance would utilize joint operations and the line between military branches may be somewhat blurred.  Not that rivalries don't exist but I don't think they operate like for example the Empire of Japan during WWII where the Army and Navy borderline worked against each other in certain situations or at leat viewed each other with distrust.

[capn233]

Yes. The Alliance Navy (and Marines) are one uniformed service apparently. That makes them drastically different from their counterparts in the US where they are two services under one department.

I think it makes it more odd... if it was more "streamlined" you would have one set of ranks and that is that. Shepard disembarks routinely... if he was a Captain would he call himself a Major while groundside?

Modifié par capn233, 22 septembre 2011 - 04:46 .

[Leonia]

Hey Septimus did say Shepard would make a fine general herself some day..

/hasn'treadallofthethread

[didymos1120]

capn233 wrote...

I think it makes it more odd... if it was more "streamlined" you would have one set of ranks and that is that. Shepard disembarks routinely... if he was a Captain would he call himself a Major while groundside?

If your assignment is command of a vessel, you'd use Captain on or off that vessel.  If instead your assignment is to command ground forces, you'd be called Major, regardless of whether you were actually on the ground or not. 

[capn233]

Shepard does both though, does he not? Unless you don't count his squad as sufficient to warrant the term ground forces.

Do they really get to bounce around between being marines and sailors as they advance?

Modifié par capn233, 22 septembre 2011 - 06:11 .

[Han Shot First]

Serviceman 1st class/Corporal

Question: Is Corporal not being an NCO canon (as defined by Bioware), or did you arrange the ranks into those categories? The reason why I ask, if the categories were not set by Bioware Corporals in the ME universe *may* be NCOs.

In most militaries Corporals are NCOs. In the UK for example they are section leaders, and in the US they are Fire Team leaders and occasionally Squad Leaders. 

The Alliance Navy (and Marines) are one uniformed service apparently. That makes them drastically different from their counterparts in the US where they are two services under one department.

This.

Shepard is a Marine, but that has a slightly different meaning than it does for many real world militaries. Most countries that have Marines, have them organized into a different service than their Army & Navy. The Alliance however sort of combines all the various services (Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force) into a single service. So Shepard being a Marine is more of a specialization within the Alliance Navy, than a seperate service.

Alliance naval personnel simply assume the role of "Marine" when engaged in groundside combat duties.

I think it would be far more likely that the Alliance would have occupational specialities, rather than an arrangement like Star Trek where the crew were either sailors or grunts depending on circumstance. People who enlisted (or were commissioned) in the Alliance Navy, with ground combat related occupational specialities (Infantry, Armor, Artillery, Combat Engineers, ect) would probably be classified Marines. I imagine that Marine refers to an occupation field within the Alliance fleet, rather than a temporary title for sailors deployed groundside.

It would be simply impossible to train personnel as jacks of all trades that could perform any shipboard or groundside function.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 22 septembre 2011 - 10:34 .

[Captain Crash]

Brand Recognition = Commander Shepard

[Kronner]

It's Shepard. Rank is meaningless.

[Captain Crash]

He/she is known as Commander Shepard, not simply Shepard to all those casual gamers out there. You mention Shepard to them they probably think of the guy from CoD. You say Commander Shepard they more likely to think of ME.

Shepard is a common name used in more then one Game (even in Command and Conquer).  Commander Shepard is already established character and title. They could change it, I personally wouldn't mind. I just think that they are are more likely to keep it as Commander due to what already perceived and recognised.

Modifié par Captain Crash, 22 septembre 2011 - 10:24 .

[Robhuzz]

Valdrane78 wrote...

Was watching a video on youtube dealing with Shep's escape from earth
and after he jumps on the Normandy and Anderson elects to stay behind,
you can very visiably see 2 bars on his collar denoting a Captain or
Major (probably Major since Shep is a Marine).  Now this could be for
several reasons..............

14:04 of this video by D3MON-SOVER3IGN (nice vid btw)

1) The armor was just laying around and he needed it in a pinch, it just happened to belong to a Major.
2) He was posthumously awarded the rank of Major (we just didn't know it at the time)
3) Anderson field commisioned him to Major so he would be senior officer on board th eNormandy (if Kaidan survives     Virmire)
4) He was given rank by Alliance Command after the Reapers attacked (and cleared of all charges)

My apologies if this has been stated before, I didn't see anythign related to this, just my two cents.

Updated for link

I doubt any officer would just leave their official alliance clothing lying around so if Shepard wears it, it's his. Sounds good, Shepard was overdue for a promotion though captain seems a bit low. How about Fleet Admiral Shepard instead:pinched:

Of course the whole suit he wears in the demo could still be a placeholder for his real oufit which hasn't been revealed yet. I'm hoping for a promotion though, Shep deserves it way more than Kaidan/Ashley....

[Captain Crash]

Overdue yes, she certainly deserves it. Logistically Im not convinced she wil get it though. Not just for the out of game imagery my above post states, but due to the circumstances in game.

With the political climate as it is no way Shepard could get a promotion in my eyes. She is just about to go and trial for the possible murder of 300,000 Batarians. Any promotion during this event is unrealistic as a court-martial is a possible outcome. After all the latest Comic shows the Alliance is taking it seriously and she is in the Brig.

I dont know military regulation, but im sure if your about to be put on trial and the eyes of the world (Galaxy) are on you, getting a promotion during its events is not very impartial. Also remember the Galaxy dont know about the Reapers and the Council have shrugged it off. The Alliance will no doubt do the same. Of course when the Reapers show up that will stop everything. But I dont think a random field promotion during the course of the Galactic War will really add anything to my game.

Shepard wont Command the fleets. But will be an influential figure in the fighting. Much like the Battle of the Citadel. Hackett commanded, but Shepard role had a massive impact.


Anyway the bars in the video are misleading. It could indicate a promotion, it may not.  I would like to think her efforts have been recognised.  Yet im not convinced that it will happen

Modifié par Captain Crash, 22 septembre 2011 - 10:55 .

[Valdrane78]

Crash, there are several ways he could have been awarded the rank of Major/Captain. posthumously awarded the rank of Staff Commander, promoted to Major/Captain in a time of war by Anderson. Based on rumor and what Ash said in the vid I watched, I am going to go out on a limb and say Shep is back with the Alliance. And logistically it makes sense... first you don't put a civilian in charge of a military vessel, period, even in make believe it's a no-no. Second, it would make sense that Shep get promoted and be the highest ranking officer on board so that there are no delusions about who is in charge (if Kaidan survived Virmire).

And it may not add anything to your game, but to many of us it would. His actions alone in ME1 should have garnered him the rank of Staff Commander.... and who knows maybe it did and Bioware didn't tell us, we don't know because he is still called Commander. This last little part is all just personal preferance anyways.

@ Han Shot First
First off your name I like it and you are most correct, I never liked that change. Anyways, yes Corporal are indeed an enlisted title and not an NCO. I was confused at first as well when I first saw it, because Corporals are usually non commissioned officers. But in the ME world they are just plain ole enlisted folks. It doesn't make any sense either that there are more officer ranks than enlisted ranks either, but every game has a different interpretation of military rank structure.

[Captain Crash]

While agree that her actions should be rewarded, that I have no doubt, that post still doesn't explain the logic in receiving a promotion during an ongoing tribunal or trial. Regardless whether its civilian or military. Being awarded a new rank during its process isn't impartial regardless of jurisdiction. In fact it sends out the message that the Alliance supports Shepard and gives a indication of bias, even if it was based on past actions.


However in the simple case of needing to be a higher rank then Kaiden I do concede. It makes no sense for Shepard to not be a higher rank or at least equal. In that sense im sure a promotion could be woven into the story regardless of events.