585 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

They don't assume that role, but they are second in command. The Knight-Commander retains the rank of Knight-Commander, but without a Grand Cleric, a Knight-Commander is the highest ranking Chantry member. So they get to decide wether or not an annulment is needed. However, usually whenever a Grand Cleric dies, the entire Chantry she was a part of, does not disintegrated aswell, so a Revered Mother is usually appointed to replace her.

You just backed my point.  If Elthina leaves, then KC Meredith (being senior most Chantry member) would call the Right of Annulment immediately.

-Polaris

[TJPags]

The requirement is that there is no Grand Cleric, and no successor.

If Elthinna goes on vacation, runs to Val Royieux, etc., there's a successor.

Man, I just love the way people twist everything until it's no longer recognizable in order to make their own twisted point.

[jbrand2002uk]

I can understand the Divine sending Sister Nightingale and the emphasis placed on the resoloutionists because from what was said they too are an group within the Chantry albeit an extremist 1 and also being mages which it seems the templars were having a hard time dealing with so i guess she was sent to evaluate 1st hand if the templars of Kirkwall were capable of dealing with the resoloutionists and if not then an exalted march would be required.

[Dave of Canada]

TJPags wrote...

Man, I just love the way people twist everything until it's no longer recognizable in order to make their own twisted point.

It's the only way he has a point.

[Heimdall]

Wait Polaris, successor in the role of Grand Cleric would imply a member of the clergy, like a Revered Mother not the Templar Knight Commander. It is only in the absence of a successor, like getting blown up in Anders' idiocy, that the Knight Commander takes charge. The Templars are subordinate to the clergy.

[jbrand2002uk]

I think he forgot the start of act 3 when Elthina overides Merediths idea of having Orsino clapped in irons and orders Meredith to return to the gallows like a good little girl

[Heimdall]

IanPolaris wrote...

However, unlike Meredith, Gregoire doesn't have an insane hatred of all mages.

-Polaris

  To be fare, she had no hatred for mages signifigantly greater than anyone else in the chantry before the idol made her lose it.

Therefore, it's all Hawke's fault.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Therefore, it's all Hawke's fault.

It usually is...

[jbrand2002uk]

Well Actually its all Varric's fault technically as he passed the idol to Bartrand

[Reno_Tarshil]

It's Bartrand's fault for having the idea to go down into the Deep Roads.

[EmperorSahlertz]

I'm sure we can somehow blame all of this on the Elves...

[Reno_Tarshil]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I'm sure we can somehow blame all of this on the Elves...

I agree, blasted knife-ears.

[jbrand2002uk]

yep Bartrand came up with the idea of the expedition to settle his debt at the blooming rose he racked up hopping into bed with that popular elven **** lol

[IanPolaris]

TJPags wrote...

The requirement is that there is no Grand Cleric, and no successor.

If Elthinna goes on vacation, runs to Val Royieux, etc., there's a successor.

Man, I just love the way people twist everything until it's no longer recognizable in order to make their own twisted point.

There is?  Really?  If that is the case then KC Meredith's action in the game should have been illegal since not all Sisters of the Chantry were killed by Anders which means there was a successor, but DG said otherwise.

I am only going by what DG has said.

-Polaris

[Heimdall]

IanPolaris wrote...

TJPags wrote...

The requirement is that there is no Grand Cleric, and no successor.

If Elthinna goes on vacation, runs to Val Royieux, etc., there's a successor.

Man, I just love the way people twist everything until it's no longer recognizable in order to make their own twisted point.

There is?  Really?  If that is the case then KC Meredith's action in the game should have been illegal since not all Sisters of the Chantry were killed by Anders which means there was a successor, but DG said otherwise.

I am only going by what DG has said.

-Polaris

  Then read what DG said, the successor must be a ranking Revered Mother, of which there aren't any because they tend to spend most of their time in the Chantry by all indications.  All gone along with half of Hightown.

[TJPags]

IanPolaris wrote...

TJPags wrote...

The requirement is that there is no Grand Cleric, and no successor.

If Elthinna goes on vacation, runs to Val Royieux, etc., there's a successor.

Man, I just love the way people twist everything until it's no longer recognizable in order to make their own twisted point.

There is?  Really?  If that is the case then KC Meredith's action in the game should have been illegal since not all Sisters of the Chantry were killed by Anders which means there was a successor, but DG said otherwise.

I am only going by what DG has said.

-Polaris

What Gaider said (and you were IN that original thread, and it's been posted here at least twice so far) is that if the GC is dead, and there is no available successor, the KC has the GC authority.

You want to twist that into some nonsense about Elthinna being down with a case of the runs giving Meredith the ability to call for a RoA, that's your issue.

Anders - your poster child for oppressed mages, defender of the weak and righter of wrongs (I'm sure that mage he almost kills right after Hawke rescues her thinks of him that way) - killed Elthinna and every ranking member of the Chantry.  There is no available successor.  THAT is what gives Meredith the authority to call for the RoA.

By your logic, Greagor could have called for the RoA himself, since there was no GC standing next to him.  Yet, no, he had to send to Denerim.

Please, you continue to twist things to suit your own twisted logic.  Which is the only way it makes sense.

[IanPolaris]

Lord Aesir wrote...
  Then read what DG said, the successor must be a ranking Revered Mother, of which there aren't any because they tend to spend most of their time in the Chantry by all indications.  All gone along with half of Hightown.

That is not what DG said.  He said nothing about that.  I remember that thread very well thank you.  It might be that to be a permanent sucessor, you might need to be a ranking Mother, but that is not the same thing as saying there is 'no clear successor'.  For example, there are cases in history where raw lieutentants have taken over entire battalions or even brigades because all the senior officers were either KIA or MIA.  No different here.

DG even admitted that all KC Meredith had to do was get Elthina assassinated in order to declare a RoA on her own hook (but gave various reasons I found unconvincing why she didn't).  If Elthina left and there is no one in the Grand Cleric's Chair, then KC Meredith will have arguably the legal authority to declare a RoA and given Meredith's state of mind, she would be very apt to 'interpet' the rule as liberally as possible.

-Polaris

[Zanallen]

If Elthina just left, what would stop her from declaring her own successor?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Other than Elthina not being dead yet, nothing. Hell, there probably already was a named successor, given Elthina's advanced age.

[TEWR]

she'd leave it in the Maker's hands to decide who should be her successor.

[Heimdall]

@Zanallen

Absolutely nothing.

Frankly Polaris, I don't know where you get the idea Meredith would want Elthina dead. Just to call the Right of Annulment? You misjudge her. Fanatical as her paranoia of Mages may be, Meredith has shown no inclination that she desired harm upon the woman she has no doubt looked up to since childhood and her superior in the Chantry. Go over her head and try to get the RoA from the Divine maybe, but killing her is something I don't see her even considering.

[TEWR]

Lord Aesir wrote...

@Zanallen

Absolutely nothing.

Frankly Polaris, I don't know where you get the idea Meredith would want Elthina dead. Just to call the Right of Annulment? You misjudge her. Fanatical as her paranoia of Mages may be, Meredith has shown no inclination that she desired harm upon the woman she has no doubt looked up to since childhood and her superior in the Chantry. Go over her head and try to get the RoA from the Divine maybe, but killing her is something I don't see her even considering.

I do. She says that the Grand Cleric has been siding with Orsino a lot, and believes that Hawke is under the effects of mind control if Hawke says Orsino had no involvement in Best Served Cold (gah... I hate that quest but that's another matter). If she assumes that Hawke is under Orsino's control when Hawke defends Orsino, it's not unreasonable to assume that Meredith would think the same of Elthina when she's defending Orsino as well.

Eventually, she would slay Elthina and say it was a "mercy killing for her friend".

[IanPolaris]

Zanallen wrote...

If Elthina just left, what would stop her from declaring her own successor?

Pride would be the most likely reason especially if she left under protest (as she certainly would).  Elthina has a lot of misplaced pride.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Lord Aesir wrote...

@Zanallen

Absolutely nothing.

Frankly Polaris, I don't know where you get the idea Meredith would want Elthina dead. Just to call the Right of Annulment? You misjudge her. Fanatical as her paranoia of Mages may be, Meredith has shown no inclination that she desired harm upon the woman she has no doubt looked up to since childhood and her superior in the Chantry. Go over her head and try to get the RoA from the Divine maybe, but killing her is something I don't see her even considering.

If you side with her through Act III, it's clear that Meredith is frustrated with Elthina and thinks that Orsino and "bloodmages" have unreasonable influence with the Grand Cleric.  Given Meredith's paranoia and long standing willingness to 'creatively interpret' the rules, I can easily see a situation where Meredith would have given the quiet OK to have Elthina assassinated.  In fact I think Anders merely beat Meredith to the punch.

-Polaris

[DPSSOC]

My read on the GC/KC thing is this. In the event of the death of the GC the KC takes over until a successor is found. This means sending notice to Val Royeux that the current GC has died, and the Divine needs to name a new one. How a successor is chosen I haven't the faintest (perhaps it's just seniorit), regardless not important. The purpose of this is to allow a smooth transition without a lot of down-time. The KC can continue to perform his/her duties including those which would normally involve GC approval. In most cases this doesn't cause an issue but also in most cases the Circles aren't located in cities that are sitting on a mountain of crazy.

Regarding Gregoire if I remember correctly he isn't the Knight Commander his is a Knight Commander (Mages Collective has you deliver Lyrium Potions to one of two KC's) so it's possible that, even if the Fereldan GC is dead or incommunicado, authority falls to another.