585 réponses à ce sujet

[Robhuzz]

Huh. I could see wanting to give Dumar a good kick to the backside from time to time but people realy wanted to kill him?

Well there was Saemus, luckily he was killed by someone else so Hawke didn't have to get his hands dirty on that one. Viscount Dumar however... can't see any reason why you'd want to kill him.

On the topic of Leliana: I never felt a desire to kill Leliana and I doubt I ever will.

[thats1evildude]

The Chantry forces mages into the Circle to protect others from the potential harm they pose to others. You advocate killing Leliana because you think that she exhibits a threat, even though she's merely acting on behalf of the Chantry to assess a potentially dangerous situation. That is the exact same thing. If you still can't see that, then you are either willfully ignorant or extremely dense.

LobselVith8 wrote...

This isn't a duplicate thread, because my OP has nothing to do with Leliana's views on mages, which was posted a long time ago.

IT. IS. THE. SAME. THREAD. The entire point of your first thread was ranting about Leliana's anti-mage agenda. This thread is also a rant about Leliana's anti-mage agenda, except now you've slightly modified the topic to include an assertion that she should be killed.

Never mind that there was never a consensus reached about whether Leliana was actually expressing "anti-mage" views, a point that was denied most of the people in the thread and by the writer of the bloody game. So now you've opened a new discussion that's a duplicate of your previous argument, obviously because the last thread fell down to Page 8.

In fact, most of the points you bring up about the storyline are simply variations of each other, ie. how Hawke isn't pro-active enough to fit your tastes. Are you so bored that you need to keep repeating yourself? I'd let it slide if you weren't so bloody tedious.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 22 septembre 2011 - 09:14 .

[Ryzaki]

Yeah it would be nice if people who were dead STAYED dead. Death is cheap is...well cheap.

[LobselVith8]

thats1evildude wrote...

The Chantry forces mages into the Circle to protect others from the potential harm they pose to others. You advocate killing Leliana because you think that she exhibits a threat, even though she's merely acting on behalf of the Chantry to assess a potentially dangerous situation. That is the exact same thing. If you still can't see that, then you are either willfully ignorant or extremely dense.

I don't see how wanting to remove a particular person who you know is dangerous is similar to imprisoning an entire population of people because they share an inherent trait. I'd argue that Hawke should have killed Sister Petrice since she was dangerous, and made it clear she tried to start a religious war between Andrastians and the Qunari. You claim this is the same thing as imprisoning hundreds of people because they were born mages. I don't see how you can make the claim. Imprisoning an entire population of people because of their shared trait isn't the same as wanting to remove a specific person who you know is dangerous.

thats1evildude wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

This isn't a duplicate thread, because my OP has nothing to do with Leliana's views on mages, which was posted a long time ago.

It. IS. THE. SAME. THREAD. The entire point of your first thread was ranting about Leliana's anti-mage agenda. This thread is also a rant about Leliana's anti-mage agenda, except now you've slightly modified the topic to include an assertion that she should be killed.

My topic is focused on the Exalted March against Kirkwall that Leliana mentions as Sister Nightingale. Leliana makes it clear that she was sent by the Divine to investigate the unrest in Kirkwall, where she neglects to mention the reign of Meredith, and even admits she doesn't know for certain what role the Resolutionists have played. If Leliana seems to be heading back to advise in favor of an Exalted March despite not having all her facts straight, then I'd advise killing her to give the city some time. Letting her head back will only guarentee that the city is doomed.

thats1evildude wrote...

Never mind that there was never a consensus reached about whether Leliana was actually expressing "anti-mage" views, a point that was denied most of the people in the thread and by the writer of the bloody game. So now you've opened a new discussion that's a duplicate of your previous argument, obviously because the last thread fell down to Page 8.

That would be because this issue is about the Exalted March against Kirkwall that Leliana seems to be in favor of, which is why I'd advocate that Hawke should have had the option of dealing with Leliana permanently. It would seem to be the reason why Leliana tells Hawke to warn Elthina to leave Kirkwall for sanctuary in Orlais.

thats1evildude wrote...

In fact, most of the points you bring up about the storyline are simply variations of each other, ie. how Hawke isn't pro-active enough to fit your tastes. Are you so bored that you need to keep repeating yourself? I'd let it slide if you weren't so bloody tedious.

I advocate killing Leliana because she seems to endorse an Exalted March against Kirkwall, which is the purpose behind the original post. Leliana represents the Divine and acts as her "left-hand," and "Faith" leaves me feeling that Leliana will endorse an attack on the city. In killing Leliana and telling Grand Cleric Elthina any story that doesn't involve Hawke killing Leliana, it buys the city some time from a holy war that the Divine is contemplating.

[Morroian]

LobselVith8 wrote...

This isn't a duplicate thread, because my OP has nothing to do with Leliana's views on mages, which was posted a long time ago.

You're essentially arguiing the same thing via stealth.

[Wulfram]

1. Leliana does not endorse an Exalted March.
2. Killing the Divine's personal agent is not likely to delay any supposed Exalted March.
3. The story you tell Elthina will presumably have to include why Sebastian is dead, since I can't see him letting you murder the Divine's agent because you weren't paying attention properly and can't be bothered to ask questions. Or can you do the quest with him not present?

[Brian Lewis]

Kill her, no. Yell "It's the Templars fault!" at her, yes. At the very least, you should have told her to give Ethina a swift kick in the butt to get her to do her job.

[Heimdall]

Wulfram wrote...

1. Leliana does not endorse an Exalted March.
2. Killing the Divine's personal agent is not likely to delay any supposed Exalted March.
3. The story you tell Elthina will presumably have to include why Sebastian is dead, since I can't see him letting you murder the Divine's agent because you weren't paying attention properly and can't be bothered to ask questions. Or can you do the quest with him not present?

QFT

Really, when the Divine's agent goes missing, wouldn't that hasten an Exalted March?

[Big I]

Ryzaki wrote...

Yeah it would be nice if people who were dead STAYED dead. Death is cheap is...well cheap.

This as applies to Anders and Justice. Anders should not have been in DA2, they should have made a new "free all mages" character instead.

[Addai]

TeenZombie wrote...

Leliana isn't my favorite (or least favorite) character.  She is an interesting character, however, and I enjoyed Leliana's Song, despite the weird retconning, and her appearance in DA2, because she's part of a larger, interesting plot.

Killing Leliana would be an inelegant, brutal way to end her participation in the ongoing story.  Excuse me for enjoying the writing of these games and seeing characters in shades of grey.  I forgot I was on the BSN for a second.

And other people feel differently?  I don't find her interesting in the least.

I don't want to kill her.  I just want her to GO AWAY.

[Monica21]

LobselVith8 wrote...
I respectfully disagree. I don't think there's any reason to prevent Hawke from killing Sister Petrice when she admits she tried to start a religious war, and she's in a hovel with one single templar who participated in the act. I don't think Hawke should have simply stood by while Cullen and one other templar took Bethany away, since this is his baby sister, but it's certainly an issue that you seem to disagree with. I don't think Hawke should have simply stood by while Grace killed Ser Thrask, since both of them were right in front of him. I don't see the issue here - it's not as though I'm arguing that Hawke should have pulled a Neo and started killing every templar in the Gallows via The Matrix.

I know this has moved on but I'm catching up and wanted to respond to this.

Um, what the hell? What exactly do you think you're going to do to Cullen to prevent him from taking Bethany to the tower? Are you going to kill a Templar Knight-Captain? What on earth would that gain you? Why would anyone think that's a good idea? If you lose, at the very least you go to jail and at worst you either get killed or made tranquil since you're an apostate.

You have very irrational responses to things.

[SerraAdvocate]

Addai67 wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

Leliana isn't my favorite (or least favorite) character.  She is an interesting character, however, and I enjoyed Leliana's Song, despite the weird retconning, and her appearance in DA2, because she's part of a larger, interesting plot.

Killing Leliana would be an inelegant, brutal way to end her participation in the ongoing story.  Excuse me for enjoying the writing of these games and seeing characters in shades of grey.  I forgot I was on the BSN for a second.

And other people feel differently?  I don't find her interesting in the least.

I don't want to kill her.  I just want her to GO AWAY.

You're just going to have to get over it. Leliana is pretty clearly intended to be one of the three or four most important characters in the DA universe we've been introduced to so far. She's not going anywhere.

[Addai]

Helm505 wrote...

You're just going to have to get over it. Leliana is pretty clearly intended to be one of the three or four most important characters in the DA universe we've been introduced to so far. She's not going anywhere.

The hell with that.  Flemeth I can understand- she's a prime mover.  Leliana is a waste of pixels.  If they can't come up with something more interesting than that, it's time to take up FPS games.

Modifié par Addai67, 23 septembre 2011 - 12:43 .

[thats1evildude]

Monica21 wrote...

Um, what the hell? What exactly do you think you're going to do to Cullen to prevent him from taking Bethany to the tower? Are you going to kill a Templar Knight-Captain? What on earth would that gain you? Why would anyone think that's a good idea? If you lose, at the very least you go to jail and at worst you either get killed or made tranquil since you're an apostate.

Some people contend that Hawke should have over-ruled Bethany's wishes, resisted the templars and then gone on the run.

Myself, I think Bethany would have actually fought her sibling if Hawke tried to attack Cullen. She made her wishes very clear. Then you would have had to kill her — which would kind of defeat the point of fighting the templars — or be forced to leave Kirkwall without her

Addai67 wrote...

The hell with that.  Flemeth I can understand- she's a prime mover.  Leliana is a waste of pixels.  If they can't come up with something more interesting than that, it's time to take up FPS games.

I recommend Bioshock.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 23 septembre 2011 - 12:50 .

[TJPags]

I'm not going to quote stuff, because I can't be bothered, but here's my thoughts after catching up on the rest of this thread:

1.  This is the same thread as the one you made before.  You're just more overt about wanting to kill her, and more covert about why.

2.  Leliana is not considering an Exalted March - she's investigating for the Divine, who IS considering one.  Let's not blame Leliana for the Divine's actions, okay?

3.  Maybe you and Ethereal need to have your porivate discussion on private?  I don't mean that as a knock on either one of you.  I disagree with you, Lob, but I enjoy debating with you (to a point).  And I have nothing against Ethereal.  But you explain you made this thread - which everyone except you seems to think is a repeat of the last one you made - to continue a discussion.  That's what PM's are for, not threads.

4.  Killing the person the Divine sent to see if Kirkwall needs to be destroyed is, well, stupid.  You want to potect your home, by killing her?  And you think THAT'S going to stop the Divine?  "Oh, gee, I sent my best agent to Kirkwall to see if it should be destroyed because mages are out of control, and she was killed by a mage sympathizer.  Okay, call off the Exalted March now".  Please.  Think before stating such silly thoughts.

5.  Sorry, I left Petrice and Cullen off the list of people you want to kill.  That list is insanely long.  Maybe we should work with the list of who should be allowed to live - it'd save bandwith.

6.  You're insane support of mages has seriously blinded you to common sense.

7.  I agree she should have stayed dead if you killed her in DAO, but that has nothing to do with the thread topic you posted.

[TEWR]

3. Maybe you and Ethereal need to have your porivate discussion on private? I don't mean that as a knock on either one of you. I disagree with you, Lob, but I enjoy debating with you (to a point). And I have nothing against Ethereal. But you explain you made this thread - which everyone except you seems to think is a repeat of the last one you made - to continue a discussion. That's what PM's are for, not threads.

He does have a point Lob.

Plus, we weren't so much discussing Leliana story-wise as we were discussing Leliana's appearance in DAII being better explained in Origins by having Bioware imply that her death may not mean she is gone from the series permanently. That Bioware should've said "Sure she died, but we wanted that to happen for when we bring her back because that death will have some meaning in terms of her character. The nature of that specific area has some significance for her returning".

That way, it wouldn't be a character returning due to the fans wanting her back. It would be due to Bioware having a plan for Leliana if that occurred and they followed through on it, thus eliminating the anger some of the fans had when she returned.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 23 septembre 2011 - 01:39 .

[LobselVith8]

[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

Yet it's part of the narrative that Morrigan reveals that Flemeth will likely return even though she has been slain by The Warden, and Flemeth is an abomination of legend. Leliana is simply an ordinary human who was trained as a bard.[/quote]

Leliana is also a person who may have had a vision. She believes it was from the Maker, but the Guardian doubts this. That doesn't mean however that she didn't have a vision. Perhaps it came from Fen'Harel the Dread Wolf, Trickster of the Elvhenan?

Who's to say she didn't actually have a divine vision? Perhaps she did, but it wasn't from the Maker. Perhaps some divine being wants her to do something. For all we know it was the bloody Stone that gave her that vision. [/quote]

Leliana does say to The Warden (if her personality was hardened) that her vision wasn't real during the royal ceremony.

[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

Wouldn't the corpse in the ruins have come back to life, then? [/quote]

That's gameplay, and is not tied to lore.

Also, at first I thought you were talking about Leliana, so I typed out this long comment for that and then I realized you were talking about the lootable corpse. I'm still going to leave my comment here though for people to read and maybe get a good laugh.

Maybe Leliana was reincarnated in a new body by some divine being and we've got another Leliana walking around. One that's rotting.

Of course, that's pushing it I feel.

Though now I'm thinking that there are two Lelianas and it'll be like Kingdom Hearts. One Leliana will be Heartless, having no soul or body but a heart full of Darkness. And even with that heart, they behave entirely devoid of emotions (hence the name Heartless).

And the other Leliana will be a Nobody, having a soul and body but no heart, and thus no understanding of emotions. She will use her memories of her time when she was complete to emulate emotions, but she cannot naturally feel emotions anymore.

That would be both awesome and annoying to see happen in Thedas. Mainly because it wouldn't be an original idea from Bioware.

....now I want to play Kingdom Hearts. [/quote]

I suppose it's impossible to know how Leliana will be brought back - or how well-done the explanation will be - until the writers reveal it, but I'm still not a fan of resurrecting mortal characters.

[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

Wynne is an abomination.[/quote]

Wasn't the point. My point was that Wynne died, but her spirit didn't immediately leave her body. The same thing applies to Leliana. [/quote]

You're suggesting that Leliana could be an abomination?

[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

But Leliana was brought back because she was popular with some people, which is the same reason Anders shows up in Dragon Age 2.[/quote]

I know, and while that's somewhat bad the devs could've easily just said "Oh you never killed her. She was just unconscious like Oghren". That they're acknowledging that she did die means that the choice to kill her does still matter.

Question: Had they given the player information to doubt whether Leliana was permanently dead, would this be an issue? Because that's all I'm saying. Bioware needs to have more of a plan for the series. Right now, it just seems like they're focusing on the "now" instead of the "now, then, and later on down the line".

Bioware just needs to have codexes update to give a shred of doubt to the player about a person's death.

To be honest though, I'd rather we not be able to kill any companions in the future. Betray? Sure. Knock unconscious? Sure, but at least establish that in the game it happens.

The companions seem like they'll do a lot for the world of Thedas if they're alive, and that's really why I dislike killing them. But any other way to get them out of the party permanently is fine by me. [/quote]

I'd rather Bioware stick with the policy "dead means dead."

[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

If the area brought her back, why didn't it bring back Wynne, Kolgrim, the Guardian, or the corpse near the Urn of Sacred Ashes?[/quote]

Wynne has a Spirit of Faith inside her that brought her back once and could theoretically do so again.

Kolgrim was killed outside of the Gauntlet area, so it doesn't apply to him. He was killed in a cavern that doesn't have any magic infused within it or lyrium running through it.

The Guardian is a spectral remnant tied to the Ashes, and the lyrium in the Mountain is what most likely keeping him alive. There's no guarantee even that a defiled Urn becomes useless. For one thing, dragon's blood grants the drinker more constitution and strength. For another, Kolgrim is insane (Reavers do go insane) and has no knowledge of the arcane yet professes to know something about the arcane.

That corpse near the Urn is just an element of gameplay, and is not equal to lore. The nature of the area -- being an area watched by the Maker -- doesn't mean anyone who dies there will be resurrected. For all we know he walked through the fire without removing his earthly possessions and the Guardian killed him. Why would the area meant to protect the Urn resurrect someone who disrespected the area? [/quote]

Why would a thick wall of lyrium ressurect one single woman?

[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

I'm a firm believer in the idea that death should be permanent. Bringing characters back to life simply cheapens any risks because death isn't permanent. I understand the issue about Flemeth, because it's the premise that she's not human and may not permanently die, but when it comes to mortal characters - I don't think they should be brought back.[/quote]

Had it been established that a person's soul immediately leaves the body upon death in Thedas and had Leliana died in a castle I'd agree with you.

But Leliana died in an area that's supposedly watched by an immortal deity. She may be mortal, but the very nature of the area she died in could render that mortality to be meaningless. [/quote]

She may be one Archdemon short of the Blight, too.

[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

I don't see where being Danarius' slave would inform him about any clandestine plots in Kirkwall, especially if you're telling me that Fenris is merely speaking about rumors that he heard.[/quote]

The Resolutionists are active throughout Thedas, though they are more active in Kirkwall. He would've probably heard from Danarius that the Magisters support the Resolutionists throughout Thedas, probably under the idea that it'll be easier to recreate an Imperium if you have various factions supporting your cause spread throughout the land.

but that's if Tevinter is in fact supporting the Resolutionists. If they are, then it's a bad thing. [/quote]

I suppose part of it is that I don't trust Leliana now. I did in Ferelden, but I don't have any confidence in her as Sister Nightingale. She seems to be condemning Kirkwall to die at the mercy of the Divine when she admits that she doesn't even know the truth behind what's going on. She admits to Hawke, "The Resolutionists have become violent. They are likely behind the unrest here." Even her suspicion about the involvement of the Resolutionists is merely her suspicions, but she seems to be advocating that Kirkwall dies with a new Exalted March.

[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

Connor did a better job illustrating the dangers of magic, in my humble opinion. [/quote]

Yea he did. [/quote]

Speaking of which, I wonder why they cut Connor from Dragon Age 2.

[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...

I think you have the right idea, Ethereal. Having options within the narrative to support one faction or the other would have been better.

Thanks for sharing your ideas, Ethereal. [/quote]

Thank you.  [/quote]

I'm sure Merrill would have some words of wisdom right about now.

[SerraAdvocate]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Leliana does say to The Warden (if her personality was hardened) that her vision wasn't real during the royal ceremony.

No she doesn't. She accepts that the Warden doesn't think it was the Maker, and she allows for the possibility that maybe it wasn't the Maker, but she never says that she believes it wasn't the Maker. She just says that it was definitely a good thing, because it helped show her the way she needed to go. She certainly never says that her vision wasn't real.

Modifié par Helm505, 23 septembre 2011 - 02:31 .

[DPSSOC]

Monica21 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...
I respectfully disagree. I don't think there's any reason to prevent Hawke from killing Sister Petrice when she admits she tried to start a religious war, and she's in a hovel with one single templar who participated in the act. I don't think Hawke should have simply stood by while Cullen and one other templar took Bethany away, since this is his baby sister, but it's certainly an issue that you seem to disagree with. I don't think Hawke should have simply stood by while Grace killed Ser Thrask, since both of them were right in front of him. I don't see the issue here - it's not as though I'm arguing that Hawke should have pulled a Neo and started killing every templar in the Gallows via The Matrix.

I know this has moved on but I'm catching up and wanted to respond to this.

Um, what the hell? What exactly do you think you're going to do to Cullen to prevent him from taking Bethany to the tower? Are you going to kill a Templar Knight-Captain? What on earth would that gain you?

 
Adding Knight Captain to the list of things you've only killed one of?

Monica21 wrote...
Why would anyone think that's a good idea? If you lose, at the very least you go to jail and at worst you either get killed or made tranquil since you're an apostate.

 
If you've got Bethany around you're either a warrior or rogue (unless something changed in a patch since I started my last game).  So Tranquility doesn't seem like a danger but still death very possible.  Also the likelihood of torture in either case until they break you and you reveal the location of your two apostate friends, Marethari, and Fenryel (if not in the Circle) who in turn will be tortured until they break and reveal the location of any others they know about (or die, torture can be messy like that).  Bethany will probably be in for much of the same.

Modifié par DPSSOC, 23 septembre 2011 - 02:39 .

[LobselVith8]

TJPags wrote...

I'm not going to quote stuff, because I can't be bothered, but here's my thoughts after catching up on the rest of this thread:

1. This is the same thread as the one you made before. You're just more overt about wanting to kill her, and more covert about why.

No, I'm pretty clear on why I think Sister Nightingale should be stopped in my original post: the Exalted March that she mentions in "Faith."

TJPags wrote...

2. Leliana is not considering an Exalted March - she's investigating for the Divine, who IS considering one. Let's not blame Leliana for the Divine's actions, okay?

I'm addressing how I saw the scene play out. Some have agreed with me. You're welcome to disagree.

TJPags wrote...

3. Maybe you and Ethereal need to have your porivate discussion on private? I don't mean that as a knock on either one of you. I disagree with you, Lob, but I enjoy debating with you (to a point). And I have nothing against Ethereal. But you explain you made this thread - which everyone except you seems to think is a repeat of the last one you made - to continue a discussion. That's what PM's are for, not threads.

Why should I take the discussion private? If you don't want to participate in the discussion, you're welcome to ignore the thread. So is anyone else who doesn't wish to participate in the discussion. I'm not demanding that anyone participate in the discussion if they don't feel they have anything to contribute.

TJPags wrote...

4. Killing the person the Divine sent to see if Kirkwall needs to be destroyed is, well, stupid. You want to potect your home, by killing her? And you think THAT'S going to stop the Divine? "Oh, gee, I sent my best agent to Kirkwall to see if it should be destroyed because mages are out of control, and she was killed by a mage sympathizer. Okay, call off the Exalted March now". Please. Think before stating such silly thoughts.

I would imagine killing Leliana would have to do with the fact that she seems to be confirming she'll endorse an Exalted March against Kirkwall. I think that any protagonist who wants to protect his home would do anything to save it. If Leliana returns and endorses an Exalted March, I imagine an attack would happen sooner than if she went AWOL because she was killed and nobody found out what happened to her.

TJPags wrote...

5. Sorry, I left Petrice and Cullen off the list of people you want to kill. That list is insanely long. Maybe we should work with the list of who should be allowed to live - it'd save bandwith.

You were wrong about virtually everyone you initially claimed, and I addressed why. I never claimed anyone should kill First Enchanter Orsino, I never claimed Hawke should have tried to kill Knight-Commander Meredith in Acts I and II, I never claimed Hawke should have killed Grand Cleric Elthina for disagreeing with him. What exactly were you correct about when everything you listed was factually inaccurate?

TJPags wrote...

6. You're insane support of mages has seriously blinded you to common sense.

You're? "You are insane support..."?

And this thread doesn't have anything to do with the dichotomy between mages and templars, it has to do with saving Kirkwall from destruction.

TJPags wrote...

7. I agree she should have stayed dead if you killed her in DAO, but that has nothing to do with the thread topic you posted.

My thread has to do with eliminating a threat to the city-state of Kirkwall. If Hawke has remained in Kirkwall for three years, I'd imagine he cares about the city he's lived in for nearly a decade.

[Zanallen]

Monica21 wrote...

I know this has moved on but I'm catching up and wanted to respond to this.

Um, what the hell? What exactly do you think you're going to do to Cullen to prevent him from taking Bethany to the tower? Are you going to kill a Templar Knight-Captain? What on earth would that gain you? Why would anyone think that's a good idea? If you lose, at the very least you go to jail and at worst you either get killed or made tranquil since you're an apostate.

You have very irrational responses to things.

More games should have automatic failure options. The game should give you a really stupid choice with an obvious right answer and, if you should pick the wrong answer, the game should go directly to the game over screen.

[phaonica]

LobselVith8 wrote...

I would imagine killing Leliana would have to do with the fact that she seems to be confirming she'll endorse an Exalted March against Kirkwall. I think that any protagonist who wants to protect his home would do anything to save it. If Leliana returns and endorses an Exalted March, I imagine an attack would happen sooner than if she went AWOL because she was killed and nobody found out what happened to her...And this thread doesn't have anything to do with the dichotomy between mages and templars, it has to do with saving Kirkwall from destruction.

I'm wondering why you think Meredith's threat that "the people will demand blood" near the end of the game is imaginary and not to be considered seriously, but Leliana's claim that the Chantry might march against Kirkwall (at that point with less reason) is to be considered a dire threat.

Modifié par phaonica, 23 septembre 2011 - 03:12 .

[TJPags]

Lob, you're off your rocker now.

1.  You're last thread about this was about how anti mage she is.  You contemplated killing her in that one, didn't you?  This one is about how you should kill her . . .and why?  Because she's anti-mage.  After all, why ELSE would there be an Exalted March?  Why ELSE would you complain about her "fall to magic" line?

2.  If you thought Leliana was the one considering calling for an Exalted March, go play it again.  And read the lore about who can call an Exalted March again.  I disagree with you here because you are wrong.

3.  You specifically said you made this thread to continue a conversation you were having with someone.  Sounds like prime PM territory to me.  But whatever.

4.  So, you're not so much protecting your home, just postponing its inevitable destruction?  Ensuring it, actually, since as I said, Leliana walks away NOT ready to suggest it to the Divine.  That's assuming your Ferelden Hawke gives 2 craps about the City where, as you point out repeatedly, mages are persecuted in so many horrid ways, the KC is a mage hating nutcase, your mage sister is dragged off to possible rape, tranquil, and torture, and is run illegally by a dictator-like Knight Commander.  What is there to like, exactly?
 
5. You've never espoused killing Meredith?  Really?  Okay, whatever you say.
 
6.  Oh, my spelling error is such a compelling argument in your favor.
 
7.  And what does Leliana being dead or alive have to do with Hawke caring about Kirkwall?  The topic - as you stated in the first post - was whether to kill Leliana.  Yet you spend a lot of posts discussing whether she should have stayed dead in Origins.  Now, while I agree she should have, THOSE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER.  Do you really not get that?
 
And honestly, killing Leliana because she's a threat is, as I said before, dumb.  I send an agent to investigate whether I should invade someplace.  Those I send her to investigate kill her.  That place is gone.  Very soon.  And very badly.  Do you not get that?

[IanPolaris]

phaonica wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I would imagine killing Leliana would have to do with the fact that she seems to be confirming she'll endorse an Exalted March against Kirkwall. I think that any protagonist who wants to protect his home would do anything to save it. If Leliana returns and endorses an Exalted March, I imagine an attack would happen sooner than if she went AWOL because she was killed and nobody found out what happened to her...And this thread doesn't have anything to do with the dichotomy between mages and templars, it has to do with saving Kirkwall from destruction.

I'm wondering why you think Meredith's threat that "the people will demand blood" near the end of the game is imaginary and not to be considered seriously, but Leliana's claim that the Chantry might march against Kirkwall (at that point with less reason) is to be considered a dire threat.

Because the Divines have an unfortunate history of being old bats with too much power and not enough restraint.  Ambrosia II wanted to call an Exalted March against her own Cathedral and wanted to slaughter all mages for being mages and had to be talked out of it.  Given the Chantry's history, if the "Divine's Left Hand" (who presumably knows the Divine better than anyone) is hinting at a Divine March, it should indeed be considered a dire and realistic threat.

-Polaris