878 replies to this topic

[Raganheart]

 One of the more interesting characters in the series. A rare genetic disease confines them to a life of seclusion. If they choose to leave they are hunted down and killed. There is no known cure for this disease, but has anyone tried to find a cure for this? I think they should be able to live a normal life outside seclusion. 

Morinth is definitely one of the strongest asari I´ve seen so far. I don´t think her methods are right, but with Shepard she seems calm and willing to change. Why not give her a chance or give it time to find a cure. She seems pretty stable on the Normandy.

They say the ardat- yakshi are sterile, but does that mean for both? Asari are immune to the mating disorder so if it only takes one side to mate it can be possible. ex. Morinth and Liara, Morinth would not be able, but Liara would so then they can reproduce. I guess my point is that Samara says that Morinth is not the genetic destiny because she is sterile,but her statement is not true and has no sense.

what do you think?

[Xilizhra]

There is no known cure for this disease, but has anyone tried to find a cure for this? I think they should be able to live a normal life outside seclusion.

Given the asari's "dirty little secret" status on this, not hard enough. I'm fairly sure salarian and/or human scientists could provide a lot of help here.

Morinth is definitely one of the strongest asari I´ve seen so far. I don´t think her methods are right, but with Shepard she seems calm and willing to change. Why not give her a chance or give it time to find a cure. She seems pretty stable on the Normandy.

This is, regrettably, sort of a risk and does involve betraying Samara, so I've always been badly unsure about doing it... though the Justicar Code doesn't seem flexible either, and I'm not sure which would be easier to change. Then again, having Morinth could provide some sort of motivation... it's one of the few decisions I've had genuine difficulty with.

They say the ardat- yakshi are sterile, but does that mean for both? Asari are immune to the mating disorder so if it only takes one side to mate it can be possible. ex. Morinth and Liara, Morinth would not be able, but Liara would so then they can reproduce. I guess my point is that Samara says that Morinth is not the genetic destiny because she is sterile,but her statement is not true and has no sense.

No, I think they kill other asari too.

[Raganheart]

exactly what I was talking about! I´m trying to get this thread going big. If anyone knows any more ppl for fan art to videos, they are more than welcome to put on here

[Raganheart]

Xilizhra wrote...

There is no known cure for this disease, but has anyone tried to find a cure for this? I think they should be able to live a normal life outside seclusion.

Given the asari's "dirty little secret" status on this, not hard enough. I'm fairly sure salarian and/or human scientists could provide a lot of help here.

Morinth is definitely one of the strongest asari I´ve seen so far. I don´t think her methods are right, but with Shepard she seems calm and willing to change. Why not give her a chance or give it time to find a cure. She seems pretty stable on the Normandy.

This is, regrettably, sort of a risk and does involve betraying Samara, so I've always been badly unsure about doing it... though the Justicar Code doesn't seem flexible either, and I'm not sure which would be easier to change. Then again, having Morinth could provide some sort of motivation... it's one of the few decisions I've had genuine difficulty with.

They say the ardat- yakshi are sterile, but does that mean for both? Asari are immune to the mating disorder so if it only takes one side to mate it can be possible. ex. Morinth and Liara, Morinth would not be able, but Liara would so then they can reproduce. I guess my point is that Samara says that Morinth is not the genetic destiny because she is sterile,but her statement is not true and has no sense.

No, I think they kill other asari too.

I thought so too but on the mass effect wiki codex entry it says other asari are immune to it.

[Xilizhra]

I don't think the wiki is wholly accurate in that regard, then. I don't see why other asari would be immune.

[MisterJB]

Where does it say that Asari are immune to Ardat-Yakshi? That doesn't seem likely since Samara tells us that, even before the Asari achieved space flight, the condition was already known.

Edit: "Although the condition does not harm the asari, during mating the Ardat-Yakshi's nervous system completely overpowers and dominates that of her mates, causing hemorrhaging in the victim's brain and ultimately death."

I'm thinking that by "Asari", the writer meant the Ardat-Yakshi herself.

Edited by MisterJB, 22 September 2011 - 04:07 PM.

[Raganheart]

MisterJB wrote...

Where does it say that Asari are immune to Ardat-Yakshi? That doesn't seem likely since Samara tells us that, even before the Asari achieved space flight, the condition was already known.

Sorry I wasn´t clear before. I meant they are immune from the damage and hemorrhaging while the ardat yakshi try to mate. 

[Calamity Abounds]

Even if other asari were immune, the stigma involving "pureblood" reproduction is what I think makes them treated the way they are. Asari on Asari is taboo in their culture and if an asari is unable to mate with another species as it should be in their collective eyes then they are viewed as a blight to the gene pool nonetheless.

[HogarthHughes 3]

Raganheart wrote...

 One of the more interesting characters in the series. A rare genetic disease confines them to a life of seclusion. If they choose to leave they are hunted down and killed. There is no known cure for this disease, but has anyone tried to find a cure for this? I think they should be able to live a normal life outside seclusion. 

Morinth is definitely one of the strongest asari I´ve seen so far. I don´t think her methods are right, but with Shepard she seems calm and willing to change. Why not give her a chance or give it time to find a cure. She seems pretty stable on the Normandy.

They say the ardat- yakshi are sterile, but does that mean for both? Asari are immune to the mating disorder so if it only takes one side to mate it can be possible. ex. Morinth and Liara, Morinth would not be able, but Liara would so then they can reproduce. I guess my point is that Samara says that Morinth is not the genetic destiny because she is sterile,but her statement is not true and has no sense.

what do you think?

Are you kidding?  Morinth tries to kill Shepard a second time after the Suicide Mission.  She is unrepentantly evil, I don't see where people get this idea of redemption from.  Samara and her Code might not be that much better, but at the very least she won't slaughter innocents for pleasure.

[Raganheart]

Calamity Abounds wrote...

Even if other asari were immune, the stigma involving "pureblood" reproduction is what I think makes them treated the way they are. Asari on Asari is taboo in their culture and if an asari is unable to mate with another species as it should be in their collective eyes then they are viewed as a blight to the gene pool nonetheless.

That´s very true, but don´t you think Samara is wrong by saying she can´t be the genetic destiny because she is sterile. If it´s possible to mate with other asari which nonetheless like you say is looked bad upon, she is still able to reproduce with other asari. I assume Samara said that because she was thinking of Morinth reproducing but didn´t look at the big picture.

[PMC65]

Raganheart wrote...

*snip*

what do you think?

For me she is perfect in her "cobra" way. I said this on the last Morinth thread that I cringe going into Samara's mission because Morinth freaks me out. Letting her live and walk the Normandy so not gonna happen.

To somehow "lighten" her up would be a watering down for me. It's how they tried making Dr House softer - I hate that crap! So in my game she will always be that creature that I can't get away from fast enough ... which makes that mission a love/hate for me.

If in ME3 they want to make her character more friendly and redeemable for those that want that ... doesn't really matter to me and my gameplay. I like her as that vampiric, cold and seductive ... and very unapologetic killer. LOVE that!

http://t1.gstatic.co...UCRJed83ZlYt30 

[Xeranx]

Morinth is unfortunately not fleshed out and there are a few inconsistencies with how she's presented.  There are too many avenues you can pitch her.  She could be a "Dexter"-type character.  She could even be looking for a way to cure her ardat-yakshi situation.  She could love the thrill of the hunt.  She could hate it, but think that it's inevitable.  Look at "Lost Girl".

Judging by the way people regard Ardat-yakshi I would say they haven't bothered to take an active interest in them to see if anything could be done to help them.  They're put in seclusion or deemed unfit to live.  If I remember the Salem Witch trials it's similar to owning up to your condition and being given the ability to live versus denying your condition and being hunted for death.  Those who confessed to being witches were given the chance to repent and those who maintained that they weren't were hanged.  

Maybe Morinth thought she could control it, but being pursued for death meant she couldn't actively try to control it.  She had to engage her condition to get stronger so that she could edge out her pursuers in hopes that when she's no longer pursued she could then try and get a handle on it.  Judging from everything we're told in-game Ardat Yakshi are identified at birth, but Morinth didn't find out until after she mated and wasn't pursued until after that event as well.

I want to see her fleshed out and I don't want her to be written to be some callous villain.  The fact that she seems more of an afterthought asks that she be given more effort later.  Also wanted to throw in that Grunt's banter with Morinth on Tuchanka and Kasumi's comment later seems to imply that the team would have been fine with Shepard's decision to take Morinth over Samara.

[Calamity Abounds]

Raganheart wrote...

That´s very true, but don´t you think Samara is wrong by saying she can´t be the genetic destiny because she is sterile. If it´s possible to mate with other asari which nonetheless like you say is looked bad upon, she is still able to reproduce with other asari. I assume Samara said that because she was thinking of Morinth reproducing but didn´t look at the big picture.

I agree with you there. Samara being a Jusitcar is bound by "The Code" . If you talk to her she states how there is over 5000 mantras in the code that covers all situations and isn't flexible. I'm sure the asari didn't want other species to find out there is a sex vampire in there midst since they need other species for repoduction. Based on that stigma I'm sure the code is clear that if an ardat yakshi does not accept the terms of a pampered lifestyle without breeding they are to be considerd criminals and dealt with accordingly. If you as her how she's doing after Morinth's death she responds with "I just killed my smartest, toughest and most gifted daughter and she fought to the end, I'm so proud of her." (paraphrased of course). I believe Samara is guilty of breaking the taboo of mating with anoter asari and it came back to bite her in the quad. Her other two daughters are also ardat yakshi. In order to attone for her mistake she joined the Justicars to right wrongs throughout and was then bound to kill Morinth by the code.

My point being is that I don't think its a matter of Samara not seeing the big picture but rather that she couldn't based on her allegiance to the code. She cared about Morinth with all of her being but her duty was to end her murderous rampage on top of stopping a rogue ardat yakshi.

Edited by Calamity Abounds, 22 September 2011 - 04:53 PM.

[Xilizhra]

Xeranx wrote...

Morinth is unfortunately not fleshed out and there are a few inconsistencies with how she's presented.  There are too many avenues you can pitch her.  She could be a "Dexter"-type character.  She could even be looking for a way to cure her ardat-yakshi situation.  She could love the thrill of the hunt.  She could hate it, but think that it's inevitable.  Look at "Lost Girl".

Judging by the way people regard Ardat-yakshi I would say they haven't bothered to take an active interest in them to see if anything could be done to help them.  They're put in seclusion or deemed unfit to live.  If I remember the Salem Witch trials it's similar to owning up to your condition and being given the ability to live versus denying your condition and being hunted for death.  Those who confessed to being witches were given the chance to repent and those who maintained that they weren't were hanged.  

Maybe Morinth thought she could control it, but being pursued for death meant she couldn't actively try to control it.  She had to engage her condition to get stronger so that she could edge out her pursuers in hopes that when she's no longer pursued she could then try and get a handle on it.  Judging from everything we're told in-game Ardat Yakshi are identified at birth, but Morinth didn't find out until after she mated and wasn't pursued until after that event as well.

I want to see her fleshed out and I don't want her to be written to be some callous villain.  The fact that she seems more of an afterthought asks that she be given more effort later.  Also wanted to throw in that Grunt's banter with Morinth on Tuchanka and Kasumi's comment later seems to imply that the team would have been fine with Shepard's decision to take Morinth over Samara.

Agreed. There's just not enough information about her to make an informed decision, though I do have my fears that it'll stay that way and I'll just save Samara thanks to it being the default choice. Even so, I feel rather bad about carrying on an oppressive cultural tradition...

[Raganheart]

Calamity Abounds wrote...

Raganheart wrote...

That´s very true, but don´t you think Samara is wrong by saying she can´t be the genetic destiny because she is sterile. If it´s possible to mate with other asari which nonetheless like you say is looked bad upon, she is still able to reproduce with other asari. I assume Samara said that because she was thinking of Morinth reproducing but didn´t look at the big picture.

I agree with you there. Samara being a Jusitcar is bound by "The Code" . If you talk to her she states how there is over 5000 mantras in the code that covers all situations and isn't flexible. I'm sure the asari didn't want other species to find out there is a sex vampire in there midst since they need other species for repoduction. Based on that stigma I'm sure the code is clear that if an ardat yakshi does not accept the terms of a pampered lifestyle without breeding they are to be considerd criminals and dealt with accordingly. If you as her how she's doing after Morinth's death she responds with "I just killed my smartest, toughest and most gifted daughter and she fought to the end, I'm so proud of her." (paraphrased of course). I believe Samara is guilty of breaking the taboo of mating with anoter asari and it came back to bite her in the quad. Her other two daughters are also ardat yakshi. In order to attone for her mistake she joined the Justicars to right wrongs throughout and was then bound to kill Morinth by the code.

My point being is that I don't think its a matter of Samara not seeing the big picture but rather that she couldn't based on her allegiance to the code. She cared about Morinth with all of her being but her duty was to end her murderous rampage on top of stopping a rogue ardat yakshi.

Very well said. This forum is definitely full of great statements. I think the comment above yours is amazing as well. I think it´s a series of Darwin´s evolution and adaptation. She hungers to live therefore she fights harder to exist. Whether the thrill of the hunt or a secret plan to cure herself, she definitely deserves a second look or chance. It´s just really so frustrating to pick between the two. They are well written characters with more potential character growth in the future.

[clennon8]

MisterJB wrote...

Where does it say that Asari are immune to Ardat-Yakshi? That doesn't seem likely since Samara tells us that, even before the Asari achieved space flight, the condition was already known.

Edit: "Although the condition does not harm the asari, during mating the Ardat-Yakshi's nervous system completely overpowers and dominates that of her mates, causing hemorrhaging in the victim's brain and ultimately death."

I'm thinking that by "Asari", the writer meant the Ardat-Yakshi herself.

^This.  I am 100% sure that is what was meant.

Xeranx wrote...

Morinth is unfortunately not fleshed out and there are a few inconsistencies with how she's presented.  There are too many avenues you can pitch her.  She could be a "Dexter"-type character.  She could even be looking for a way to cure her ardat-yakshi situation.  She could love the thrill of the hunt.  She could hate it, but think that it's inevitable.  Look at "Lost Girl".

It seems quite clear to me that Morinth is a "thrill of the hunt" kind of gal.

[Raganheart]

dennon8,

good work! I didn´t realize it was written in that way. As for the thrill of the hunt, I´m not sure if that was the reason from the beginning. I think she left her seclusion because she didn´t want to imagine a life without choice. The consequences after were because that was the nature of the disease. Once you´ve had the desire to mate it becomes an uncontrollable desire and not easy to control. What if she escaped and fell in love and thought she could change her disease and overpowered her lover unintentionally. People do start off innocent and the next events can drastically change a person. For instance, losing a close love whether a friendship or family dramatically impacts a person in many ways. They could become deeply depressed, angry at the world and crave only violence for the rest, completely alone and not feeling attached emotionally. I think that´s what she has lost.

[Labrev]

HogarthHughes 3 wrote...

Are you kidding?  Morinth tries to kill Shepard a second time after the Suicide Mission.  She is unrepentantly evil, I don't see where people get this idea of redemption from.  Samara and her Code might not be that much better, but at the very least she won't slaughter innocents for pleasure.

That's Shepard's own damn fault if he/she pursues it, and it serves him/her right. Morinth clearly suffers from having to live "foreveralone," she wants to be able to enjoy life/feel love like others do. But she can't because of her condition.

She was onto something, Shepard is stupid surivable, if anyone were able to survive her melding it would be him/her. Grasping at straws, maybe, but can't blame her for wanting to have a little hope for herself.

When Shepard says he/she will try it, Morinth is not like "Ehhhxcelent *evil laugh*" she's like "Really? You mean that? You want to be with me?" Honestly, that was one the saddest moments in the game, IMO. She just wants to be loved, another reason she hated her mother ("she was a terrible mother. She did her job with no love"). And besides which, she has no problem backing off if Shepard does not want to pursue it either.

Irresponsible, yes (seems the apple doesn't fall far from the tree!). Evil, I'm not so sure..

[clennon8]

Well, yeah, she ran away because she didn't want to live in a monastery.  That would be boring.
As for love...  I don't think she's capable of loving another.  She's a sociopath.

Btw, here's a short story I wrote featuring Morinth:  Hollow  (NSFW)

Edited by clennon8, 22 September 2011 - 06:02 PM.

[ladyvader]

Raganheart wrote...

 One of the more interesting characters in the series. A rare genetic disease confines them to a life of seclusion. If they choose to leave they are hunted down and killed. There is no known cure for this disease, but has anyone tried to find a cure for this? I think they should be able to live a normal life outside seclusion. 

Morinth is definitely one of the strongest asari I´ve seen so far. I don´t think her methods are right, but with Shepard she seems calm and willing to change. Why not give her a chance or give it time to find a cure. She seems pretty stable on the Normandy.

They say the ardat- yakshi are sterile, but does that mean for both? Asari are immune to the mating disorder so if it only takes one side to mate it can be possible. ex. Morinth and Liara, Morinth would not be able, but Liara would so then they can reproduce. I guess my point is that Samara says that Morinth is not the genetic destiny because she is sterile,but her statement is not true and has no sense.

what do you think?

No, you either didn't listen to everything Samara said or didn't understand.  There is no gentle meld of the nervous systems.  Mornith burns it out, leaving you a  mindless shell then death.  That would be true with anyone she melded with.  Species would not matter. 

Use your Shepard and see how fast you die once the meld starts.  Very quick.  

[HogarthHughes 3]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

That's Shepard's own damn fault if he/she pursues it, and it serves him/her right. Morinth clearly suffers from having to live "foreveralone," she wants to be able to enjoy life/feel love like others do. But she can't because of her condition.

She was onto something, Shepard is stupid surivable, if anyone were able to survive her melding it would be him/her. Grasping at straws, maybe, but can't blame her for wanting to have a little hope for herself.

When Shepard says he/she will try it, Morinth is not like "Ehhhxcelent *evil laugh*" she's like "Really? You mean that? You want to be with me?" Honestly, that was one the saddest moments in the game, IMO. She just wants to be loved, another reason she hated her mother ("she was a terrible mother. She did her job with no love"). And besides which, she has no problem backing off if Shepard does not want to pursue it either.

Irresponsible, yes (seems the apple doesn't fall far from the tree!). Evil, I'm not so sure..

You believe that Morinth really thinks Shepard will survive their melding?  I don't for a second.  Like Samara says, "Morinth would say anything that served her cause."  Morinth murdered Nef for pleasure, how is that possibly justified?  Because she is addicted to killing?  Couldn't she have chosen a victim that "deserved it" a la Dexter, or perhaps just stayed in the Ardat-Yakshi monastary thing where her addiction could at least be tempered?  No, Morinth chooses to kill innocents for her own personal pleasure, freedom, and power.  Morinth didn't choose to be born an Ardat-Yakshi, but she did choose to indulge her murderous cravings (on innocents no less).

Edited by HogarthHughes 3, 22 September 2011 - 06:09 PM.

[Xilizhra]

Well, yeah, she ran away because she didn't want to live in a monastery. That would be boring.
As for love... I don't think she's capable of loving another. She's a sociopath.

If she displays those behavioral traits, I suspect it's largely learned. I think it's too much to say out of hand that she's incapable of love.

[Labrev]

@ ladyvader. I think Morinth deluded herself into thinking Shepard could survive, that's all.

@HH 3. I'm not convinced it's completely a pleasure thing, I think maybe she really had feelings for the ones she kills, and that it's become her perverted idea of love. Like I said, I think Morinth also deludes herself into thinking Shepard would survive. Maybe she doesn't and shes really evil, but I'd like to think Morinth is a more complex character than that (but who am I kidding, she was basically pointless to recruit)