878 réponses à ce sujet

[Asenza]

@ Xeranx,

1) You kind of have to tell someone when they can kill someone when mind melding with them. Keeping that information from Morinth is far more damaging, and it was unavoidable that she would find out for herself. Depending on the birth order of Morinth's sisters, Morinth could have already known that she also had the genetic defect, or that it was possible she too would have it. We don't know who told Morinth, but it doesn't matter. The asari know from past experience what Ardat-Yakshi do once they end up around other beings that they have no empathy for. That's why they came up with the isolation solution.

1) Cont'd. If Morinth was pursued after she accidently killed someone during mating, it would have been nice to hear Morinth tell us about it. Maybe the other person was someone she truly cared about, despite her very young age (remember, she was only forty when she ran, people weren't treating Liara as more than a child and she's a bit over a hundred). But that piece of fan-fiction doesn't give Morinth carte blanche to kill hundreds or thousands after the fact. It doesn't matter how she found out about her condition, the fact is that she did know and went on a four-hundred year killing spree. I said in a previous post that, as shown by her sisters, Rila and Falere, that Ardat-Yakshi don't have to be defined by their condition. They don't have to kill. But Morinth used her condition as a crutch to kill.

About Morinth in her apartment, and a comparison to Samara I don't understand what you're getting at.

[Xilizhra]

1) Cont'd. If Morinth was pursued after she accidently killed someone during mating, it would have been nice to hear Morinth tell us about it.

It'd be nice if she said a lot of things. Or, for that matter, anything.

I said in a previous post that, as shown by her sisters, Rila and Falere, that Ardat-Yakshi don't have to be defined by their condition. They don't have to kill. But Morinth used her condition as a crutch to kill.

It seems that they are defined by their condition after they do kill, which would have doomed Morinth if it was discovered accidentally.

Every teammate you just named has a justifiable reason for why they killed. They are not by nature inclined to kill a random person who poses no threat to them.

Well, not Zaeed. He was a murderous criminal seemingly just because.

She will not change because of Shepard.

As ME3 isn't out, you can't know this.

[Asenza]

@ Xilizhra,

You really need to stop doing this, filling up gaps of information with fanfiction. Yes, we don't know how Morinth found out about her condition. But you can't use that lack of information to make up your own series of events and then state that your imagined scenario justifies Morinth's actions that are part of the narrative and are shown in game.

You're romanticizing her also. You can't say things like, "I also think she'd be willing to leave the killing behind if she could have the condition removed." When the narrative doesn't support it. When her recruitment mission gives every indication that she enjoys what she does. When it's clear that she had a choice and chose violence. When she shows no signs or remorse, regret, sorrow, sadness, anything!

Remember, Ardat-Yakshi means that she cannot mate with others without killing her partner. Mating is necessary for the survival of the species as a whole, but not for an individual. It does not mean she will die if she doesn't do it. She gets stronger, faster, smarter when she kills another by mind-melding. It is entertainment only, not necessary for her continued existence. She has been up to it for over four-hundred years, and no one, not even Cyber-Jesus Shepard, will be able to change her. Morinth doesn't want to change herself. Shepard doesn't even want to change her, Shepard states at one point, "She's only dangerous to people she sleeps with and I don't plan on sleeping with her." That doesn't sound like one determined to change another from the path of wrong onto the one of good. Shepard doesn't care what Morinth did before the mission or what she'll do after. Shepard just wants her skills.

And Samara has those skills without the moral issue that whoever Morinth kills after the fact is not so indirectly Shepard's fault for not stopping her with Samara.

When I say change for Morinth, (which needs to happen because static characters aren't interesting) it doesn't even have to be in the typical, pious Christian variety; just stop killing people!

Modifié par Asenza, 26 septembre 2011 - 11:22 .

[Xilizhra]

[quote]You really need to stop doing this, filling up gaps of information with fanfiction. Yes, we don't know how Morinth found out about her condition. But you can't use that lack of information to make up your own series of events and then state that your imagined scenario justifies Morinth's actions that are part of the narrative and are shown in game.[/quote]
All I'm saying is that since we have no idea what happened, you can't make conclusive judgments about what did.

[qutoe]You're romanticizing her also. You can't say things like, "I also think she'd be willing to leave the killing behind if she could have the condition removed." When the narrative doesn't support it. When her recruitment mission gives every indication that she enjoys what she does. When it's clear that she had a choice and chose violence. When she shows no signs or remorse, regret, sorrow, sadness, anything![/quote]
Aside from the line I mentioned to you earlier...

[quote]Remember, Ardat-Yakshi means that she cannot mate with others without killing her partner. Mating is necessary for the survival of the species as a whole, but not for an individual.[/quote]
It's more than that. She can't meld at all. She can't share her thoughts with anyone else, losing out on both a fundamental asari sense and mode of communication.

[quote]Shepard doesn't even want to change her, Shepard states at one point, "She's only dangerous to people she sleeps with and I don't plan on sleeping with her." That doesn't sound like one determined to change another from the path of wrong onto the one of good. Shepard doesn't care what Morinth did before the mission or what she'll do after. Shepard just wants her skills.[/quote]
I don't remember this line, and I certainly wouldn't have said it even if I knew it existed. To whom does Shepard say this? If it exists...

[Xeranx]

Asenza wrote...

@ Xeranx,

1) You kind of have to tell someone when they can kill someone when mind melding with them. Keeping that information from Morinth is far more damaging, and it was unavoidable that she would find out for herself. Depending on the birth order of Morinth's sisters, Morinth could have already known that she also had the genetic defect, or that it was possible she too would have it. We don't know who told Morinth, but it doesn't matter. The asari know from past experience what Ardat-Yakshi do once they end up around other beings that they have no empathy for. That's why they came up with the isolation solution.

Sure that's an obligation that is supposed to be fulfilled, but that doesn't mean it will happen or did in this case.  Yes leaving Morinth in the dark is damaging, but it's also likely.  Samara could have gone through postpartum depression when her child was diagnosed with the condition.  It would be a very good reason for Morinth to not know what she is.

Everything I've seen hints at Morinth being the last born.  For her to be the first...I thought the condition was diagnosed at birth.  If so, why let Morinth run free and her younger sisters are then imprisoned afterward?

1) Cont'd. If Morinth was pursued after she accidently killed someone during mating, it would have been nice to hear Morinth tell us about it. Maybe the other person was someone she truly cared about, despite her very young age (remember, she was only forty when she ran, people weren't treating Liara as more than a child and she's a bit over a hundred). But that piece of fan-fiction doesn't give Morinth carte blanche to kill hundreds or thousands after the fact. It doesn't matter how she found out about her condition, the fact is that she did know and went on a four-hundred year killing spree. I said in a previous post that, as shown by her sisters, Rila and Falere, that Ardat-Yakshi don't have to be defined by their condition. They don't have to kill. But Morinth used her condition as a crutch to kill.

About Morinth in her apartment, and a comparison to Samara I don't understand what you're getting at.

I agree it would have been nice to get her backstory from her rather than from the person who took it upon themselves to end her life.  That colors the backstory for me.  Also I never said anything gave her the right to kill.  But I have plenty of murderers on my ship as it is.  What's the difference?

Her age helps in trying to figure out her mind state if the age of maturity for an Asari happens at 40.  Not to draw a parallel to humans, but that's like 16-18 depending where you live.  Or even 14 in some areas.  You don't look at people who may still be in highschool or fresh out as though they're on par with your average 40 year-old.  You'd like them to be, but you don't expect it.  As such I don't imagine Morinth seeing her mate die, being told that it was her fault and she will forever have it happen to her, and on top of that she has to make the decision to live in isolation or be killed.  What 16 year-old is going to allow that to happen without fighting back or running?

Also, it really does matter how she found out.  People are crushed by bad news all the time and when it's delivered without a care as to how a person might take it, well, it shows disregard for that person or how they might feel.  
Morinth: "Mother, my mate...she's...(sobs)...she's dead."
Samara: "How did it happen?"
Morinth: "We were just together...and..."
Samara: "You mated with her and she died?"
Morinth: (nods)
Samara: "Well I guess you either choose life-long seclusion or you die.  By the way, I should have mentioned it, but I couldn't bring myself to say it.  You're an Ardat Yakshi.  They're not myths, and I could have saved you this heartbreak, but (shrugs)"

In a scenario like that I would think Morinth would feel like there's no compassion and nothing for her there.  Might as well run for freedom.

My point in the comparison was that both Samara and Morinth revel in combat.  Samara says she used to when she was younger.  Judging by how she bullrushed Eclipse I would say that part of her didn't really die especially since she picked a profession in which she can get the taste of her matron days along with acquiring the respectability of a matriarch.  The comparison of Justicars to Judges a la "Judge Dredd" is fitting as well.  A civilian murders someone and they'll be brought up on charges.  A judge can kill someone outright and say they judged them.  They enjoy much of what criminals do at great risk to themselves if caught, but enjoy the respect of being law enforcement.

Modifié par Xeranx, 27 septembre 2011 - 01:26 .

[Asenza]

@ Xilizhra,

 1)  "All I'm saying is that since we have no idea what happened, you can't make conclusive judgments about what did."

All i'm saying is that the narrative does not support your sympathetic, tragic and emotional imaginings of Morinth's past.

2) "I get lonely sometimes. I can never truly feel the love of another."  "It's more than that. She can't meld at all. She can't share her thoughts with anyone else, losing out on both a fundamental asari sense and mode of communication."

I mentioned it earlier, I'll say it again. Lonely is fine. Lonely is great, a grain of characterization on a beach of rot and dead animals. Being lonely does not excuse all the murders she has committed over the years. Sex does not = love. Mind-melding might be even more important for the Asari than it is for humans, but again, couples spend far more time out of bed than in bed, that cannot be all there is to a (healthy) relationship. Morinth's sad loss, intimacy, does not give her the right to deprive people of their lives.

3) It does exist. Please don't act like I'm just making things up, you're the one writing entire Morinth fanfiction chapters. I'm trying to find a youtube clip of it since, I don't have a save around that point in the game but I think it takes place during the "Please render assistance" dialogue that triggers the loyalty mission. Definitely somewhere on the ship. Shepard kills Samara because they believe that Morinth is more useful to them, (despite having the same amount of power as Samara)  not because they see something in Morinth that can be changed, or want to make it their mission to change her.

Modifié par Asenza, 27 septembre 2011 - 01:57 .

[Xilizhra]

1) "All I'm saying is that since we have no idea what happened, you can't make conclusive judgments about what did."

All i'm saying is that the narrative does not support your sympathetic, tragic and emotional imaginings of Morinth's past.

And I'm saying that the narrative supports nothing because the narrative is ****ing ****ty.
*coughs*

I mentioned it earlier, I'll say it again. Lonely is fine. Lonely is great, a grain of characterization on a beach of rot and dead animals. Being lonely does not excuse all the murders she has committed over the years. Sex does not = love. Mind-melding might be even more important for the Asari than it is for humans, but again, couples spend far more time out of bed than in bed, that cannot be all there is to a (healthy) relationship. Morinth's sad loss, intimacy, does not give her the right to deprive people of their lives.

You're not getting it. It's more than the equivalent of physical intimacy; it's like being unable to sleep with or to talk to whomever your partner is, like you have to text message all your communications. And no fair lip-reading either; your partner has no mouth and no way to make obvious facial expressions either, and nor do you.

3) It does exist. Please don't act like I'm just making things up, you're the one writing entire Morinth fanfiction chapters. I'm trying to find a youtube clip of it since, I don't have a save around that point in the game but I think it takes place during the "Please render assistance" dialogue that triggers the loyalty mission. Definitely somewhere on the ship. Shepard kills Samara because they believe that Morinth is more useful to them, (despite having the same amount of power as Samara) not because they see something in Morinth that can be changed, or want to make it their mission to change her.

The line upon actually picking Morinth is "Morinth will be more useful to me," which sucks because it's nothing like what my Shepard would actually say. But then again, my Shepard would never say "End of the line, Morinth" either, so they've got me coming and going.

[Asenza]

@Xilizhra,

1) And I'm saying you cannot correct that narrative failing with fanfiction and then cite the fanfiction as justification for Morinth's actions in the game.

2) You're not getting it. Morinth's secondary needs are not greater than other people's right to live. I mean, Morinth sees it that way but that doesn't make it right. And if you're saying that Morinth's sexual/physical/intimate needs ARE more important than the lives of many, many others, well then, I don't know what else to say to you.

Modifié par Asenza, 27 septembre 2011 - 03:49 .

[D.Kain]

Asenza wrote...

@Xilizhra,

1) And I'm saying you cannot correct that narrative failing with fanfiction and then cite the fanfiction as justification for Morinth's actions in the game.

2) You're not getting it. Morinth's secondary needs are not greater than other people's right to live. I mean, Morinth sees it that way but that doesn't make it right. And if you're saying that Morinth's sexual/physical/intimate needs ARE more important than the lives of many, many others, well then, I don't know what else to say to you.

Narattive says that Morinth has a ****ty life and that she killed some people.

Why did Morinth kill peole? Dunno - speculation. 
What was actually Morinth's life like in detail? Dunno - speculation.
Why did Morinth run away? Dunno - speculation. 
Is there really no cure? Dunno - speculation. 

Let's see what do I know from the narative. 

Morinth is a powerful squad member.
She respects me.
She willingly comes to help because she is grateful.
She doesn't cause anymore trouble while on the ship, only is bold enough to think that maybe Shepard can survive melding.

[Asenza]

@D.Kain,

1) Why did Morinth kill people? Lets keep it simple and say after she escaped. Because she liked the feeling it gave her. Because she enjoyed the chase. Because it made her stronger, faster, smarter.
2) What was Morinth's life like in detail? She spends a lot of time in bars, takes people home. She has an expensive lifestyle, lives very well- as evidenced by her apartment and the items in it. She had to spend a lot of the time after she escaped killing people, otherwise she would not have closed the power gap between herself and her mother.
3) Why did Morinth run away? Because she wanted to kill, and if she was in isolation, she couldn't do that. Because she's a child that never grew up.
4) Not you too, about the cure. For the last time, I have no problem with a cure. What I have a problem with is when you inject the cure in the middle of a conversation that had nothing to do with it.

Lets see what I know from the narrrative:

Morinth is a powerful life-sucker with four-hundred years of murder under her belt.
Morinth wiill continue to kill, sees nothing wrong with the way she lives her life, nothing wrong with taking away other people's.

There is also the fact that anyone Morinth murders after the SM is not so indirectly Shepard's fault, for he/she didn't end her when they had the chance.

See you all in the morning.

[D.Kain]

Asenza wrote...

@D.Kain,

1) Why did Morinth kill people? Lets keep it simple and say after she escaped. Because she liked the feeling it gave her. Because she enjoyed the chase. Because it made her stronger, faster, smarter.
2) What was Morinth's life like in detail? She spends a lot of time in bars, takes people home. She has an expensive lifestyle, lives very well- as evidenced by her apartment and the items in it. She had to spend a lot of the time after she escaped killing people, otherwise she would not have closed the power gap between herself and her mother.
3) Why did Morinth run away? Because she wanted to kill, and if she was in isolation, she couldn't do that. Because she's a child that never grew up.
4) Not you too, about the cure. For the last time, I have no problem with a cure. What I have a problem with is when you inject the cure in the middle of a conversation that had nothing to do with it.

Lets see what I know from the narrrative:

Morinth is a powerful life-sucker with four-hundred years of murder under her belt.
Morinth wiill continue to kill, sees nothing wrong with the way she lives her life, nothing wrong with taking away other people's.

There is also the fact that anyone Morinth murders after the SM is not so indirectly Shepard's fault, for he/she didn't end her when they had the chance.

See you all in the morning.

But the thing is I can do that too! I cat completely reverse everything you said here, and you won't be able to tell me that I am wrong. lol
It's speculation. And from what we know from the game we react differently.
What do you think I am a masohist or something? You think I want to have a crappy swuad member for lolz? You think that I want a squad member that doesn't care about me and doesn't respect me? I don't, but I can paint Morinth to be a good squad member right know. 

And see you. 

Modifié par D.Kain, 27 septembre 2011 - 04:14 .

[Xilizhra]

2) You're not getting it. Morinth's secondary needs are not greater than other people's right to live. I mean, Morinth sees it that way but that doesn't make it right.

I didn't say they were. I was just saying that she's very badly circumstantially disadvantaged.

[Ieldra]

Raganheart wrote...
They say the ardat- yakshi are sterile, but does that mean for both? Asari are immune to the mating disorder so if it only takes one side to mate it can be possible. ex. Morinth and Liara, Morinth would not be able, but Liara would so then they can reproduce. I guess my point is that Samara says that Morinth is not the genetic destiny because she is sterile,but her statement is not true and has no sense.

what do you think?

The rationalization for the asari mating process is that one partner uses the other to randomize her own genetic sequence. If the non-ardat-yakshi is the "mother" and the ardat-yakshi the "father", there might theoretically be offspring, but since the "mother" doesn't survive the process the question is moot.

Even should the killing be avoidable, the ardat-yakshi will not pass on any of its genetic material because the "fathers" don't do that in the asari mating process. The ardat-yakshi-genes will not be inherited by the next generation and consequently, the ardat-yakshi cannot be the genetic destiny of the asari.

Conclusion: Morinth lied.

[Asenza]

D.Kain wrote...

Asenza wrote...

@D.Kain,

1) Why did Morinth kill people? Lets keep it simple and say after she escaped. Because she liked the feeling it gave her. Because she enjoyed the chase. Because it made her stronger, faster, smarter.
2) What was Morinth's life like in detail? She spends a lot of time in bars, takes people home. She has an expensive lifestyle, lives very well- as evidenced by her apartment and the items in it. She had to spend a lot of the time after she escaped killing people, otherwise she would not have closed the power gap between herself and her mother.
3) Why did Morinth run away? Because she wanted to kill, and if she was in isolation, she couldn't do that. Because she's a child that never grew up.
4) Not you too, about the cure. For the last time, I have no problem with a cure. What I have a problem with is when you inject the cure in the middle of a conversation that had nothing to do with it.

Lets see what I know from the narrrative:

Morinth is a powerful life-sucker with four-hundred years of murder under her belt.
Morinth wiill continue to kill, sees nothing wrong with the way she lives her life, nothing wrong with taking away other people's.

There is also the fact that anyone Morinth murders after the SM is not so indirectly Shepard's fault, for he/she didn't end her when they had the chance.

See you all in the morning.

But the thing is I can do that too! I cat completely reverse everything you said here, and you won't be able to tell me that I am wrong. lol
It's speculation. And from what we know from the game we react differently.
What do you think I am a masohist or something? You think I want to have a crappy swuad member for lolz? You think that I want a squad member that doesn't care about me and doesn't respect me? I don't, but I can paint Morinth to be a good squad member right know. 

And see you. 

Fine. Go ahead and do it. Tell me that Morinth doesn't enjoy killing, prove it in what the game showed us. Tell me that Morinth isn't a mass-murderer with a four-hundred year history, then justify it. Tell me what you've seen that shows she's finally realized the error of her ways and wants to stop living the way that she is. Tell me how, assuming Morinth survived the SM, when she goes off killing again, that those murders aren't now partially your fault.

You also didn't answer any of my points. Define a good squadmate; powerful? Definitely. But in all other areas, Morinth is probably the very worst example one can use of a character that doesn't care about Shepard. I can paint Morinth as a pious, gentle, and affectionate person, but that doesn't mean she is one.

Modifié par Asenza, 27 septembre 2011 - 01:07 .

[Xilizhra]

Tell me how, assuming Morinth survived the SM, when she goes off killing again, that those murders aren't now partially your fault.

Kindly don't use events that haven't happened yet.

[Asenza]

Xilizhra wrote...

Tell me how, assuming Morinth survived the SM, when she goes off killing again, that those murders aren't now partially your fault.

Kindly don't use events that haven't happened yet.

Right then. Given her history, what proof do you have that she won't go on, happily murdering her way through a millennia? I can make this not-so-farfetched, educated guess, because I have plenty of proof that she will.

"I didn't say they were. I was just saying that she's very badly circumstantially disadvantaged."

Yes, she's at a disadvantage, but you're excusing her actions just because she's at a disadvantage. Anyone with a disability or a disorder is at a disadvantage to those who aren't in some way or another, but then you start inventing things like, Morinth found out about her condition by accidently killing her first lover, or Morinth's first kill was an accident, and I believe Morinth can change, or would want to if there was a cure, none of which the narrative supports!

At the very best, Morinth is a child who cannot help herself due to a genetic defect and sociopathic tendencies, a child who cannot see the wrong of her actions and who is now addicted to the taking of a life. At the worst, due to the genetic defect and sociopathic tendencies, Morinth is a simple murderer with no conscience who knows exactly what she is doing is wrong and doesn't care how many people she has to kill to satisfy her inclination to kill.

Modifié par Asenza, 27 septembre 2011 - 02:54 .

[Xilizhra]

Right then. Given her history, what proof do you have that she won't go on, happily murdering her way through a millennia? I can make this not-so-farfetched, educated guess, because I have plenty of proof that she will.

This is why I haven't made a final decision on whom to save yet, because I'm not sure if the narrative is going to continue to be a one-sided suckfest.

Yes, she's at a disadvantage, but you're excusing her actions just because she's at a disadvantage. Anyone with a disability or a disorder is at a disadvantage to those who aren't in some way or another, but then you start inventing things like, Morinth found out about her condition by accidently killing her first lover, or Morinth's first kill was an accident, and I believe Morinth can change, or would want to if there was a cure, none of which the narrative supports!

What I'm saying is that your version of events isn't necessarily completely true. I'm not saying that mine is either, I'm only saying that it fits with the events as we see them onscreen. I don't much care whether or not it fits into the narrative intent, because the narrative is so bad and I feel no obligation to respect bad writing.

At the very best, Morinth is a child who cannot help herself due to a genetic defect and sociopathic tendencies, a child who cannot see the wrong of her actions and who is now addicted to the taking of a life.

This seems likely. If you kill her, her last line is "And they call me a monster!," which would imply that she believes she's in some sort of right here. Given the invective she delivers against Samara later, it's evident that she feels genuinely wronged, regardless of whether or not she actually was.

[Asenza]

@ Xilizhra,

1) There you go again, avoiding answering whether or not the narrative supports Morinth's future actions by stating that ME3 still has time to change things. That's true, and I agree with you. But until then, there is every indication that Morinth will keep killing. She has had no great revelation, no kind of life-changing experience, no change of perspective, nothing. And you just refuse to admit it.

2) What parts of what I've stated aren't true? I don't much care about narrative intent, I care about what the narrative showed us. And what was shown to us, was that four hundred years ago, under vague circumstances, Morinth escaped being put into isolation and went on to live a life of callous decadence at the expense of many other other peoples lives.

The how and why of her escape are almost completely irrelevant, given what she goes on to do after the fact. You can only blame her past for so long. After a certain point (we don't know how many murders she's committed, but lets just say two-hundred years before Shepard was born) everything she does is her fault. She brought it all on herself. That doesn't make her tragic. Or sympathetic. It just makes her someone determined to destruction. Her initial disorder might make her situation in life tragic, but she as a character is not.

3) Of course she feels like she's been wronged. She's been playing a game for hundreds of years and her mother just told her she's been naughty and its time to face her punishment. And if she's a child that can't help herself, doesn't want to change and won't change, then she needs to be killed or captured and incarcerated not only to keep her from being a danger to others, but as punishment for the crimes she's already comitted.

Modifié par Asenza, 27 septembre 2011 - 03:33 .

[Xilizhra]

1) There you go again, avoiding answering whether or not the narrative supports Morinth's future actions by stating that ME3 still has time to change things. That's true, and I agree with you. But until then, there is every indication that Morinth will keep killing. She has had no great revelation, no kind of life-changing experience, no change of perspective, nothing. And you just refuse to admit it.

Given that she's currently in an unprecedented situation, I think it's more difficult than that to say exactly what she'll do.

The how and why of her escape are almost completely irrelevant, given what she goes on to do after the fact. You can only blame her past for so long. After a certain point (we don't know how many murders she's committed, but lets just say two-hundred years before Shepard was born) everything she does is her fault. She brought it all on herself. That doesn't make her tragic. Or sympathetic. It just makes her someone determined to destruction. Her initial disorder might make her situation in life tragic, but she as a character is not.

Whether she's supposed to be sympathetic or not, I find irrelevant. I sympathize regardless. Of course, I sympathize with a lot of people. But that does include her.

3) Of course she feels like she's been wronged. She's been playing a game for hundreds of years and her mother just told her she's been naughty and its time to face her punishment. And if she's a child that can't help herself, doesn't want to change and won't change, then she needs to be killed or captured and incarcerated not only to keep her from being a danger to others, but as punishment for the crimes she's already comitted.

Or redeemed to the extent that she no longer feels the need to commit said crimes, and can instead do good in the galaxy. That would be far more productive than killing/imprisoning her.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 27 septembre 2011 - 03:57 .

[RhiPanda]

I understand why people sympathise with Morinth but I really do not agree with it, she is a serial killer and from my point of view undeserving of any sympathy. But I do hope you guys get to learn more about her character etc in ME3, cause it's not like it is gonna affect my game so not gonna get angry about it

[Asenza]

RhiPanda wrote...

I understand why people sympathise with Morinth but I really do not agree with it, she is a serial killer and from my point of view undeserving of any sympathy. But I do hope you guys get to learn more about her character etc in ME3, cause it's not like it is gonna affect my game so not gonna get angry about it

That's interesting. I'm trying to sympathise with her. That's why I'm on this thread, trying to understand why people do. But instead, all I'm getting is people making things up, people who think she's cool, and people who are white-washing her past, sanitizing it, and making excuses.

Modifié par Asenza, 27 septembre 2011 - 05:03 .

[RhiPanda]

Asenza wrote...

RhiPanda wrote...

I understand why people sympathise with Morinth but I really do not agree with it, she is a serial killer and from my point of view undeserving of any sympathy. But I do hope you guys get to learn more about her character etc in ME3, cause it's not like it is gonna affect my game so not gonna get angry about it

That's interesting. I'm trying to sympathise with her. That's why I'm on this thread, trying to understand why people do. But instead, all I'm getting is people making things up, people who think she's cool, and people who are white-washing her past, sanitizing it, and making excuses.

Oh don't get me wrong, I hate Morinth and I kill her every time, but I get why people are sympathising with her, I think it's for all the wrong reasons and while I do understand why they sympathise with her I don't actually get it =S

[D.Kain]

Asenza wrote...

Fine. Go ahead and do it. Tell me that Morinth doesn't enjoy killing, prove it in what the game showed us. Tell me that Morinth isn't a mass-murderer with a four-hundred year history, then justify it. Tell me what you've seen that shows she's finally realized the error of her ways and wants to stop living the way that she is. Tell me how, assuming Morinth survived the SM, when she goes off killing again, that those murders aren't now partially your fault.

You also didn't answer any of my points. Define a good squadmate; powerful? Definitely. But in all other areas, Morinth is probably the very worst example one can use of a character that doesn't care about Shepard. I can paint Morinth as a pious, gentle, and affectionate person, but that doesn't mean she is one.

Why would I need to prove THOSE things? I think that Morinth enjoys killing because it is physical pleasure, who she kills is a different question, and WHY she started killing is a different question too. I justify her killing by the fact that she is hunted by justicars. Morinth has no errors in her ways, it's the asari culture in regards to Ardat-Yakshi that does. Morinth would probably stop killing now that Samara is dead, since she doesn't need to do it anymore to survive, unless another justicar shows up. Also there are plenty places in the galaxy where Morinth would be welcome to use her abileties and explore them further - like being a spectre for example. 

Morinth is a good squadmate. Morinth does actually care about Shepard more than most of other squadmates. If I could only choose 1 squad mate from ME2 squad to watch my back it would be Morinth.

[Raganheart]

Asenza wrote...

RhiPanda wrote...

I understand why people sympathise with Morinth but I really do not agree with it, she is a serial killer and from my point of view undeserving of any sympathy. But I do hope you guys get to learn more about her character etc in ME3, cause it's not like it is gonna affect my game so not gonna get angry about it

That's interesting. I'm trying to sympathise with her. That's why I'm on this thread, trying to understand why people do. But instead, all I'm getting is people making things up, people who think she's cool, and people who are white-washing her past, sanitizing it, and making excuses.

You really are full of s*** then. I have never said any of that. I said her character depth is great and she is an interesting character. What you all are saying (haters) is that she can´t be fixed, once a serial killer always. I think that´s wrong. Everyone deserves a second chance despite their past. When I say she is stable under Shepard, SHE REALLY IS. If not she would be killing squadmates, getting high all the time, and finding the first way out. People say well Morinth made a promise to Shepard then you would be contradicting yourself. You say she can´t be trusted and she loves to kill. Only something trustworthy would give their word to a person and follow through. Guess what she did? Exactly, she went through everything with you and followed orders. She finds Shepard intriguing and has never met someone like this. Maybe Shepard is that person to change her around. All I´m saying is don´t give up on her. She can change for the better or for worse, but she needs the chance.