878 réponses à ce sujet

[RagnarsGirl]

It took me a long time to finally choose Morinth over Samara.*i usually play paragon*
I should have done it sooner,Morinth is way more fun. I didn't miss Samara at all.

Then I started thinking, 'what kind of a mother hunts her own daughter?' Not a very good one clearly.. And all the time I had Samara on the ship she talks about 'killing for shepherd', making exceptions to her code for the quest they were on if the need arises,but she can't sort things out with her own daughter.

She portrays Morinth as the vilest being to scour the galaxy - devoid of morals and any code of conduct, yet Morinth effortlessly fallls in line on the ship going out of her way (dresssing and acting like Samara) to please shepherd and to make things easier on the crew.

I think the AY needs to get off their high horses.They have this high opinion of themselves. The operative word being 'they'.

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Its there fault she ran away its her fault she killed. What they were doing was sending her to a monastery in seclusion. To be honest its safe for them to do that since Ardat Yakshi naturally do not like to cooperate with a lot of people for long periods of time and the temptation of them being around others they can meld with would likely be too much. Its quite possible they would go into seclusion anyway. Morinth however seems to have likely killed anyway. Its 50/50 with her.

The purpose of the Justicar order isn't to hunt Ardat Yakshi. It is part of it but only in a peripheral sense. Ardat Yakshi commit injustice and Justicars hunt those who commit injustice nothing more. Justicars are no worse then Spectres at times. Hell the only times Samara necessarily had to kill civillians was due to Morinth. Sounds a lot like Spectres. Morinth was a great threat and the Justicar must do whatever it takes to complete her mission. Spectres kill civillians all the time to complete there mission. Hell Justicars are outright saintly at times. Remember Nihlus took a civillian hostage. Samara had to let Nihlus go to save the civillian.

Ok, but I still need Morinth to help me to stop the reapers and to kill everybody who tried to put her into seclusion. When that is done and she will still want to kill random people I would be forced to deal with her too. 

No you don't. Its quite clear that Samara is just as strong as Morinth and implied that Samara is more skilled with weapons fighting since she has trained for so long. Jack is such a powerful human biotic that even the collectors wanted her just as much as they wanted Shepard. Morinth is not needed and is in fact more dangerous than Samara since she has no real loyalty and can mind control some of your crew.

[D.Kain]

1136342t54 wrote...


No you don't. Its quite clear that Samara is just as strong as Morinth and implied that Samara is more skilled with weapons fighting since she has trained for so long. Jack is such a powerful human biotic that even the collectors wanted her just as much as they wanted Shepard. Morinth is not needed and is in fact more dangerous than Samara since she has no real loyalty and can mind control some of your crew.

On that I am going to strongly disagree. EVEN if Morinth is as unforgivable as you say, EVEN if she is not as powerful ( which I believe she is more useful than Samara. ) She is still THE most loyal squadmate. If I had a choice of choosing only 1 squad mate that will watch my back, it would be Morinth.

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...
On that I am going to strongly disagree. EVEN if Morinth is as unforgivable as you say, EVEN if she is not as powerful ( which I believe she is more useful than Samara. ) She is still THE most loyal squadmate. If I had a choice of choosing only 1 squad mate that will watch my back, it would be Morinth.

No she is not the most loyal squadmate at all. Provide some sort of evidence that even suggests it.

[RagnarsGirl]

Morinth is very aware of shepard's status on the ship and in the glaxy. She does have loyalty for shepard.
Her loyalty stems from respect, she definately has that for shepard..no doubt about that.

[D.Kain]

1136342t54 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...
On that I am going to strongly disagree. EVEN if Morinth is as unforgivable as you say, EVEN if she is not as powerful ( which I believe she is more useful than Samara. ) She is still THE most loyal squadmate. If I had a choice of choosing only 1 squad mate that will watch my back, it would be Morinth.

No she is not the most loyal squadmate at all. Provide some sort of evidence that even suggests it.

Her Gratitude, her coming for the mission in the first place. Don't tell me that she just randomly wanted to risk her life on a dangerous mission. And don't tell me that she wanted to kill Shepard because that action is suicide for her too. 

If you think that bad people have no gratitute think again. I even know an example from one of the bioware games Neverwinter nights:

I was roleplaying an evil character and saw a demon stuck in a circle of power. The demon asked me to free him in return for a reward. Which I did. And this Chaotic Evil being came out of the circle all: Muahaha, I will destroy! But then the demon didn't hurt me, even though he was clearly stronger, instead he gave me my nice artifact and some of his power and left saying: Thank you.

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...
Her Gratitude, her coming for the mission in the first place. Don't tell me that she just randomly wanted to risk her life on a dangerous mission. And don't tell me that she wanted to kill Shepard because that action is suicide for her too. 

If you think that bad people have no gratitute think again. I even know an example from one of the bioware games Neverwinter nights:

All I have to say about this is. So the **** what?

That doesn't prove she is the most Loyal. It means that Morinth would like to repay Shepard for helping her. Also considering that she also attempted to convince Shepard to do an action that would kill himself doesn't show loyalty.

I was roleplaying an evil character and saw a demon stuck in a circle of power. The demon asked me to free him in return for a reward. Which I did. And this Chaotic Evil being came out of the circle all: Muahaha, I will destroy! But then the demon didn't hurt me, even though he was clearly stronger, instead he gave me my nice artifact and some of his power and left saying: Thank you.

Its a Demon. No matter how evil demons are they MUST adhere to deals. Basically you scratched its back and it will scratch yours that is how demons are done in many settings. Doesn't show loyalty.

[1136342t54_]

RagnarsGirl wrote...

Morinth is very aware of shepard's status on the ship and in the glaxy. She does have loyalty for shepard.
Her loyalty stems from respect, she definately has that for shepard..no doubt about that.

It still doesn't mean she is the most loyal. It means that she is willing to repay Shepard for saving her life. In that aspect you can relate her to a demon who always keeps promises. That is to be honest the only redeamable feature about her.

[D.Kain]

1136342t54 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...
Her Gratitude, her coming for the mission in the first place. Don't tell me that she just randomly wanted to risk her life on a dangerous mission. And don't tell me that she wanted to kill Shepard because that action is suicide for her too. 

If you think that bad people have no gratitute think again. I even know an example from one of the bioware games Neverwinter nights:

All I have to say about this is. So the **** what?

That doesn't prove she is the most Loyal. It means that Morinth would like to repay Shepard for helping her. Also considering that she also attempted to convince Shepard to do an action that would kill himself doesn't show loyalty.

I was roleplaying an evil character and saw a demon stuck in a circle of power. The demon asked me to free him in return for a reward. Which I did. And this Chaotic Evil being came out of the circle all: Muahaha, I will destroy! But then the demon didn't hurt me, even though he was clearly stronger, instead he gave me my nice artifact and some of his power and left saying: Thank you.

Its a Demon. No matter how evil demons are they MUST adhere to deals. Basically you scratched its back and it will scratch yours that is how demons are done in many settings. Doesn't show loyalty.

We made no official contracts and it wasn't a devil type. Oh and the game also said that he was Chaotic Evil, not Lawful Evil. But back to Morinth.

Yes she is grateful, but what makes her THE most loyal squad member is the center of her actions being Shepard. Tali for example cares for quarians and Legion for geth, and Zaeed for money, and Samara for codex etc. Morinth cares for Shepard, and that's it. There is no way for me to screw up my relationship with her without directly attacking her.

Modifié par D.Kain, 03 octobre 2011 - 11:28 .

[RagnarsGirl]

1136342t54 wrote...

RagnarsGirl wrote...

Morinth is very aware of shepard's status on the ship and in the glaxy. She does have loyalty for shepard.
Her loyalty stems from respect, she definately has that for shepard..no doubt about that.

It still doesn't mean she is the most loyal. It means that she is willing to repay Shepard for saving her life. In that aspect you can relate her to a demon who always keeps promises. That is to be honest the only redeamable feature about her.

I don't know of any demon that keeps promises? do you? She can repay him in other ways she doesn't have to be loyal...She chooses 

[RagnarsGirl]

Of all the crew she has the least to lose if she leaves. In fact she'd be better off alone, without supervision (she is free-spirited afterall) The fact that she sticks around and personifies Samara for shepard and the crew's benefit shows...wait for it..loyalty

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...

We made no official contracts and it wasn't a devil type. Oh and the game also said that he was Chaotic Evil, not Lawful Evil. But back to Morinth.

It doesn't matter. There are demons who are basically the personification of insanity but they are in many ways constrained by deals due to the way they are created. Its in a way could be something that demons do not like but by nature they have to follow deals. Also deals do not have to be a contract at all.

Yes she is grateful, but what makes her THE most loyal squad member is the center of her actions being Shepard. Tali for example cares for quarians and Legion for geth, and Zaeed for money, and Samara for codex etc. Morinth cares for Shepard, and that's it. There is no way for me to screw up my relationship with her without directly attacking her.

Morinth cares about living. If Shepard fails she dies. Morinth also promised Shepard she would help him. It was a promise for saving her life that was it. She is likely the type who keep her promises. Like I said it is the only redeamable feature about her.

[1136342t54_]

RagnarsGirl wrote...
I don't know of any demon that keeps promises? do you? She can repay him in other ways she doesn't have to be loyal...She chooses 

Yes. There are a lot of demons in fiction who does deals and stay within the confines of the deal. The problem is with people who deal with demons is that demons can find many ways to make the deal work for the demon more than the human. 

Edit: Have you ever played Dragon age or at least watched some supernatural shows?

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 03 octobre 2011 - 11:45 .

[D.Kain]

1136342t54 wrote...
Morinth cares about living. If Shepard fails she dies. Morinth also promised Shepard she would help him. It was a promise for saving her life that was it. She is likely the type who keep her promises. Like I said it is the only redeamable feature about her.

The promise that she could brake right of the bat just after Samara died. Samara is dead Morinth is there, she can do anything. What are you going to do to stop her? You have no weapons, no armor if you are a biotic she is clearly stronger. She could just walk away or could kill Shepard, or could put him back in the couch and torture him until he gives up and melds with her. But no, she asks so poletely: ''Let me take my mothers place on your team''. And goes on risking her life on a suicide mission.

[RagnarsGirl]

Yes. There are a lot of demons in fiction who does deals and stay within the confines of the deal. The problem is with people who deal with demons is that demons can find many ways to make the deal work for the demon more than the human. 

Edit: Have you ever played Dragon age or at least watched some supernatural shows?

[/quote]
Dragon age (not my thang) Supernatural shows, yes.
I don't think loyalty and demons ever go together.. Have you watched supernatural shows?
Doing something and then expecting something in return and............ returning a favour is too different things. 

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...
Morinth cares about living. If Shepard fails she dies. Morinth also promised Shepard she would help him. It was a promise for saving her life that was it. She is likely the type who keep her promises. Like I said it is the only redeamable feature about her.

The promise that she could brake right of the bat just after Samara died. Samara is dead Morinth is there, she can do anything. What are you going to do to stop her? You have no weapons, no armor if you are a biotic she is clearly stronger. She could just walk away or could kill Shepard, or could put him back in the couch and torture him until he gives up and melds with her. But no, she asks so poletely: ''Let me take my mothers place on your team''. And goes on risking her life on a suicide mission.

Did you read anything in that post? Seriously that is a real question because that post basically says the reasons why Morinth won't kill Shepard.

Morinth is a person who keeps a promise. Like I said 3 times already that is the only redeamable feature about her. Also Morinth would likely want to eventually meld with Shepard since he is strong enough to resist her. Seriously he is powerful and she loves power.

[RagnarsGirl]

Morinth's loyalty is not questionable for ME. I know she can leave whenevever she wants to.
Like i said she would be better off if she does. She chooses to stay.

Some of the crew onboard have no choice but to stick around for the suicide mission.
That's questionable. Not Morinth

[Sepewrath]

RagnarsGirl wrote...

It took me a long time to finally choose Morinth over Samara.*i usually play paragon*
I should have done it sooner,Morinth is way more fun. I didn't miss Samara at all.

Then I started thinking, 'what kind of a mother hunts her own daughter?' Not a very good one clearly.. And all the time I had Samara on the ship she talks about 'killing for shepherd', making exceptions to her code for the quest they were on if the need arises,but she can't sort things out with her own daughter.

I guess you missed that part about her daughter being a serial killer, who will also amusingly kill Shepard if given the chance. And you really wonder why she is hunted? Morinth certainly does need to be put down.

[1136342t54_]

[quote]
[/quote]
Dragon age (not my thang) Supernatural shows, yes.
I don't think loyalty and demons ever go together.. Have you watched supernatural shows?
Doing something and then expecting something in return and............ returning a favour is too different things. [/quote]
Its literally the same thing most demons and what MOrinth is doing. Shepard saved her life and in return she will help on the mission. In that way she is like a demon. Demon like deals and they seem to at times make deals with people who assist them. 

You are confusing loyalty with making a promise/deal. Morinth will only help you until the Suicide Mission is over. Afterwards she doesn't really care and is likely staying with you so she can meld. If you go by this reasoning you could say that Zaeed is effectively the most loyal team member simply because you payed him monetarily and with revenge. It was a official deal between Cerberus and him.

[D.Kain]

1136342t54 wrote...

Did you read anything in that post? Seriously that is a real question because that post basically says the reasons why Morinth won't kill Shepard.

Morinth is a person who keeps a promise. Like I said 3 times already that is the only redeamable feature about her. Also Morinth would likely want to eventually meld with Shepard since he is strong enough to resist her. Seriously he is powerful and she loves power.

Bold part, you got it right.  As it already have been said, she is THE most loyal squad member. Does she want to meld with Shepard? Oh yes. Would she do that if she trully believe that he would die and there is no chance for him to survive? No way.

[D.Kain]

[quote]1136342t54 wrote...

[quote]

Dragon age (not my thang) Supernatural shows, yes.
I don't think loyalty and demons ever go together.. Have you watched supernatural shows?
Doing something and then expecting something in return and............ returning a favour is too different things. [/quote]
Its literally the same thing most demons and what MOrinth is doing. Shepard saved her life and in return she will help on the mission. In that way she is like a demon. Demon like deals and they seem to at times make deals with people who assist them. 

You are confusing loyalty with making a promise/deal. Morinth will only help you until the Suicide Mission is over. Afterwards she doesn't really care and is likely staying with you so she can meld. If you go by this reasoning you could say that Zaeed is effectively the most loyal team member simply because you payed him monetarily and with revenge. It was a official deal between Cerberus and him.

[/quote]
[/quote]
Absolutely there pal. Zaeed IS the second most loyal squadmate on my team, you got that right. 

Modifié par D.Kain, 04 octobre 2011 - 12:05 .

[RagnarsGirl]

[quote]1136342t54 wrote...

[quote]
[/quote]
Dragon age (not my thang) Supernatural shows, yes.
I don't think loyalty and demons ever go together.. Have you watched supernatural shows?
Doing something and then expecting something in return and............ returning a favour is too different things. [/quote]
Its literally the same thing most demons and what MOrinth is doing. Shepard saved her life and in return she will help on the mission. In that way she is like a demon. Demon like deals and they seem to at times make deals with people who assist them. 

You are confusing loyalty with making a promise/deal. Morinth will only help you until the Suicide Mission is over. Afterwards she doesn't really care and is likely staying with you so she can meld. If you go by this reasoning you could say that Zaeed is effectively the most loyal team member simply because you payed him monetarily and with revenge. It was a official deal between Cerberus and him.

[/quote]
How can loyalty and a deal be the same? No Let me be clear and say that's not my reasoning. Morinth's overall personality is strong willed and self-serving, the fact that she efforlesslesly and willingly stays for the suicide mission shows that she's considering someone other than herself.

 

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...
Bold part, you got it right.  As it already have been said, she is THE most loyal squad member. Does she want to meld with Shepard? Oh yes. Would she do that if she trully believe that he would die and there is no chance for him to survive? No way.

She won't kill Shepard before the SM. I should've been more specific.

[D.Kain]

1136342t54 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...
Bold part, you got it right.  As it already have been said, she is THE most loyal squad member. Does she want to meld with Shepard? Oh yes. Would she do that if she trully believe that he would die and there is no chance for him to survive? No way.

She won't kill Shepard before the SM. I should've been more specific.

Not before, not after, not ever if bold part.

[1136342t54_]

D.Kain wrote...
Absolutely there pal. Zaeed IS the second most loyal squadmate on my team, you got that right. 

Considering that this claim goes against a crap load of reasons why you like Morinth this is actually wrong. Its quite possible that Morinth won't kill Shepard due to her wanting to meld with shep and keeping a promise. Morinth can easily change her mind. Zaeed after you do him a favor and after he is paid is only loyal to shepard until the Suicide Mission. After wards everyone on that ship is more loyal than Morinth and Zaeed. Grunt is possibly the most loyal squadmate to be honest.