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[RagnarsGirl]

Asenza wrote...

RagnarsGirl wrote...


She's drawn to shep because she/he has a powerful dispositon. She says during their converstion on the ship "If anybody can survive..." then she leaves it hanging. She wants companionship. She's searching for companionship. Living your life knowing your own mother is hunting you is inconceivable. Deep down - I'm sure she was waiting for mum to save her. Not kill her. 

She's not on the ship beacause its a vacation. I keep seeing, "she likes dark dangerous places"... How dangerous and dark can the Normandy get? or are we saying vacation, because the Normandy is a touring vessel and commander shep is actually a tour guide.
She has to personify her mother, just to blend in. 

She loves going to clubs and living the high life. The SM is risky and dangerous but not really her flavour

The Sucide Mission is an extreme vacation. She gets to travel the galaxy on someone else's fuel-tab, and kill things. Lots of things. Tank-bred krogan, husks, collectors, small armies of mercs, etc.

The collector base isn't dark and dangerous? Fighting an entire krogan clan on Tunchanka isn't dangerous? Going to an old Quarian colony with a sun gone supernova isn't dangerous? It is exactly Morinth's flavor because it isn't safe. "I never understood the fascination with safety. Some of us choose differently."

You can't deny any of this when Morinth specifically addresses these points in her dialogue.

Well you can deny it all you like, but that's just blind and senseless devotion to a character that the narrative presents far differently than you choose, despite all evidence, to believe.

And yes, Morinth is evil. Killing people to get high is inconceivable, and unjustifiable. Samara hunting her down to end her four hundred year killing spree of people who hadn't done anything to harm Morinth, is not.

OK, so lets follow a bit of logic here. This is a woman who has been hunted by an ASARI JUSTICAR (her mother) for 400 years. She has spent all that time running and hiding (Earlier it was discussed that she was smuggled off Ilium). So if she devoted so much time to staying hidden, why would she, all of a sudden, find traipsing around the galaxy (disguised as her mother, who was trying to kill her) as a vacation. (Could we also stop using this word, it doesnt really fit the context of this debate). These actions spell nothing but loyalty to someone (shep in case you missed it) who was willing to see past what everybody thought she was, a monster.

Morinth does not kill to get high, this is shown when she reveals the pain she goes through in trying to find a connection with someone during her conversation with shep on the normandy (oh, and i have seen the normandy a few times, but thanks for describing it in such vivid detail, over and over and over again)

[RagnarsGirl]

Asenza wrote...

@ RagnarsGirl,

ms. serious is going to get dinner, so don't miss me too terribly while I go to get it.

Shoo i'm relieved i'm not the only ms in this discussion. Not like these boys could get the better of me anyway;)

[RagnarsGirl]

jreezy wrote...

RagnarsGirl wrote...

jreezy wrote...

RagnarsGirl wrote...

jreezy wrote...

RagnarsGirl wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Just a random Morinth fan thread question:

What do you guys think Expel 10 sounds like? =)

Hey, sorry for leaving. I like Expel 10, i have all their albums...lmao.
Havent you heard, 'Volus bust a nut'

....... Yes I went through each of those phases reading that.

Wait till you hear, 'The Enkindlers Drive-by remix'

Haha! Awesome. Keep it up!

Why don't you think of one. Make me laugh.
I have to deal with "mr serious" aka Asenza

Hmm. Let's see..
Drell R&B Album song: You'll always be my Siha. 

I heard that one. I liked, 'nothin better than a batarian's booty sweat'. What else have you heard?

[RagnarsGirl]

RagnarsGirl wrote...

jreezy wrote...

RagnarsGirl wrote...

jreezy wrote...

RagnarsGirl wrote...

jreezy wrote...

RagnarsGirl wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Just a random Morinth fan thread question:

What do you guys think Expel 10 sounds like? =)

Hey, sorry for leaving. I like Expel 10, i have all their albums...lmao.
Havent you heard, 'Volus bust a nut'

....... Yes I went through each of those phases reading that.

Wait till you hear, 'The Enkindlers Drive-by remix'

Haha! Awesome. Keep it up!

Why don't you think of one. Make me laugh.
I have to deal with "mr serious" aka Asenza

Hmm. Let's see..
Drell R&B Album song: You'll always be my Siha. 

I heard that one. I liked, 'nothin better than a batarian's booty sweat'. What else have you heard?

This one just hit no.1 "you smell like a varren and you eat like one too"

[RagnarsGirl]

jreezy wrote...

RagnarsGirl wrote...

RagnarsGirl wrote...

jreezy wrote...

RagnarsGirl wrote...

jreezy wrote...

RagnarsGirl wrote...

jreezy wrote...

RagnarsGirl wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Just a random Morinth fan thread question:

What do you guys think Expel 10 sounds like? =)

Hey, sorry for leaving. I like Expel 10, i have all their albums...lmao.
Havent you heard, 'Volus bust a nut'

....... Yes I went through each of those phases reading that.

Wait till you hear, 'The Enkindlers Drive-by remix'

Haha! Awesome. Keep it up!

Why don't you think of one. Make me laugh.
I have to deal with "mr serious" aka Asenza

Hmm. Let's see..
Drell R&B Album song: You'll always be my Siha. 

I heard that one. I liked, 'nothin better than a batarian's booty sweat'. What else have you heard?

This one just hit no.1 "you smell like a varren and you eat like one too"

"Extinction: One Genophage at a time." Sounds like a compilation album.

That's a really good one. I'm rofl
Well done!!!!!!!!! you win!!! 

I don't think i'm going to top that. Do you want your prize now or later?  

[AnAccountWithNoName]

Xeranx wrote...

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

PrimalEden wrote...

A character thread is a place to talk about the specified character and Samara's thread has a few who criticize her for her actions. It's only fair that Morinth's actions be called to attention. It is not trolling to have an opinion about a character though I believe you should be backing it up with an explanation.

And here is my reason for why I agree with AnAccountWithNoName for saying Morinth is a monster. She kills people who did not deserve to die. She knows what she does is unacceptable in the amount of trouble she takes to hide her actions and it's proven that she would betray Shepard if given half the chance. There is nothing to redeem her character morally.

The idea that Morinth is a monster comes from the stance that she is evil.  There's nothing that illustrates that because her motives are unknown. 

Um......Bioware made it pretty clear that the Monster was evil in the game.  I played the game.  I know that for around 400 years, she has been murdering people (that includes innocents).  I take what is shown/said in the game as fact.

But to say she is not evil, is in complete denial.

It's like hearing on the TV that there is some psycopath on the run, who has been butchering many people, even killing after having sex with people, and seems to have no regard for other human life.  Im sure you wouldn't say...."he is not a monster, calling him a psycopath/monster comes from the stance that he is evil, there is nothing that illustrates that his motives are evil".

I know for more than 400 years, Samara has been killing/murdering people (that includes innocents regarding Anaya who was established as a clear potential victim).  

Evil is subjective.  One person's villain is another person's hero.  Again I would have to reference Anaya regarding that last statement because she still admired Samara despite the face that she was a hair's breath from ending up dead.  There are a number of other ways to flesh out Morinth.  She could be evil or she could focusing on those who make it their business to hurt people because they lead dangerous lives.  Labelling her as anything is speculation until she's fleshed out.  You can think that what you're given in-game is proof, but it's all heresay.

If I hear about someone killing people on television I can see the aftermath.  I see it in victim's families when they're interviewed.  I'm given details as to what occurred.  We try to get into a lot of detail about our violent offenders often illustrating the acts committed, hinting to how the acts were committed, or seeing the destruction left in their wake.  So I can reasonably make conclusions regarding any suspect or guilty party.

In Morinth's case we only have Nef who, if people want to go by her and Shepard's coversation and establishing her potential victims exist in the spectrum of that conversation, doesn't fit as a victim or even a potential victim.  If Morinth is drawn to dangerous places and dangerous people then people like Nef are in no danger.  So these so-called innocents aren't so innocent to begin with.  

Nef's journal has Nef describing herself as noone special.  She doesn't compare to Shepard in the least.  Omega being what it is and how it's described in the books is rife with dangerous people who could have been singled out by Morinth, but none of them were.  That Nef serves to be a victim in any way is a contrivance to get people to feel Morinth is evil because only someone who is evil will kill an "innocent little girl".  

No Morinth is evil because she has no regard for other life, except herself.  She also enjoys killing.  And don't give me that evil is subjective bull.  TRUE EVIL does exist in this world.  And you would be stupid to deny it.  Look at history.

I don't understand you.  You acknowledge that the Monster has been killing many innocent people, well we also know she does it for pleasure.  So isn't that evil?  If you don't see that as evil, then what is evil to you?

She also mindrapes as well.

[RagnarsGirl]

jreezy wrote...

RagnarsGirl wrote...
That's a really good one. I'm rofl
Well done!!!!!!!!! you win!!! 

I don't think i'm going to top that. Do you want your prize now or later?  

Your laughter is enough of a prize. My aim is to entertain...sometimes anyway.

Yeah i'm definately entertained and that was a rhetorical question BTW.

I'm losing brain cells trying to think of another.. I give up (you never going to hear that again)

Aren't you going to start ripping Morinth off? Everybody else is..

[Xeranx]

RagnarsGirl wrote...

Morinth isn't a monster, she gets together with nef because she wants to be close to her. She has these deep passionate feelings and wants to share it. She's been searching for 100's of years. How would you feel if everytime you wanted to get close to someone you end up killing them. She doesn't target people for their weakness. She's drawn by whatever draws her.
 Morinth is sad and lonely...Yes... A monster no. 

She's drawn to shep because she/he has a powerful dispositon. She says during their converstion on the ship "If anybody can survive..." then she leaves it hanging. She wants companionship. She's searching for companionship. Living your life knowing your own mother is hunting you is inconceivable. Deep down - I'm sure she was waiting for mum to save her. Not kill her. 

She's not on the ship beacause its a vacation. I keep seeing, "she likes dark dangerous places"... How dangerous and dark can the Normandy get? or are we saying vacation, because the Normandy is a touring vessel and commander shep is actually a tour guide.
She has to personify her mother, just to blend in. 

She loves going to clubs and living the high life. The SM is risky and dangerous but not really her flavour

I never said Morinth was a monster.  I don't agree with that stance because the evidence isn't there to make a conclusion.  Any and all conclusions are based on heresay and contrivances.  

I think Morinth joins Shepard because she feels Shepard might be special and might survive, but I won't romanticize it since people against Morinth are more apt to label any of her supporters as demented or anything along that line.

[RagnarsGirl]

Xeranx wrote...

RagnarsGirl wrote...

Morinth isn't a monster, she gets together with nef because she wants to be close to her. She has these deep passionate feelings and wants to share it. She's been searching for 100's of years. How would you feel if everytime you wanted to get close to someone you end up killing them. She doesn't target people for their weakness. She's drawn by whatever draws her.
 Morinth is sad and lonely...Yes... A monster no. 

She's drawn to shep because she/he has a powerful dispositon. She says during their converstion on the ship "If anybody can survive..." then she leaves it hanging. She wants companionship. She's searching for companionship. Living your life knowing your own mother is hunting you is inconceivable. Deep down - I'm sure she was waiting for mum to save her. Not kill her. 

She's not on the ship beacause its a vacation. I keep seeing, "she likes dark dangerous places"... How dangerous and dark can the Normandy get? or are we saying vacation, because the Normandy is a touring vessel and commander shep is actually a tour guide.
She has to personify her mother, just to blend in. 

She loves going to clubs and living the high life. The SM is risky and dangerous but not really her flavour

I never said Morinth was a monster.  I don't agree with that stance because the evidence isn't there to make a conclusion.  Any and all conclusions are based on heresay and contrivances.  

I think Morinth joins Shepard because she feels Shepard might be special and might survive, but I won't romanticize it since people against Morinth are more apt to label any of her supporters as demented or anything along that line.

I won't romanticize it either but not because i'm going to be labelled demented. I definately think dhe joins shep beacuse she hopes he can survive.

My "Morinth support" came after months of killing her and keeping Samara. I eventually had enough renegade and guts to kill Samara instead. That's what got me thinking about Samara vs Morinth vs Shep.

Morinth just simply isn't the monster. Of course Samara is going to portray her as one she will say anything to justify her killing her own daughter.  I felt betrayed by Samara after Morinth admits to Shep about how she really feels about being an Ay.

[RagnarsGirl]

jreezy wrote...

RagnarsGirl wrote...

jreezy wrote...

RagnarsGirl wrote...
That's a really good one. I'm rofl
Well done!!!!!!!!! you win!!! 

I don't think i'm going to top that. Do you want your prize now or later?  

Your laughter is enough of a prize. My aim is to entertain...sometimes anyway.

Yeah i'm definately entertained and that was a rhetorical question BTW.

I'm losing brain cells trying to think of another.. I give up (you never going to hear that again)

Aren't you going to start ripping Morinth off? Everybody else is..

If the situation calls for it I don't mind getting into another Morinth debate although there already is a big one going on in the "Punished for trusting the Monster" thread.

I said before and i'll say it again.
Morinth is an easy target. Who else is there to hate on?

And no the situation does not call for it.lol 

[Xeranx]

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...

No Morinth is evil because she has no regard for other life, except herself.  She also enjoys killing.  And don't give me that evil is subjective bull.  TRUE EVIL does exist in this world.  And you would be stupid to deny it.  Look at history.

I don't understand you.  You acknowledge that the Monster has been killing many innocent people, well we also know she does it for pleasure.  So isn't that evil?  If you don't see that as evil, then what is evil to you?

She also mindrapes as well.

Please tell me where it's shown that Morinth has no regard for life.

"She enjoys killing."  She says she took up dueling and two talking pieces reference that aspect.  That she revels in the death of another after such a competition is no different from Samara the Pious.

I never said true evil doesn't exist.  Don't put words into my mouth.  I believe it does exist, however I've never seen true evil.  And I would bet every single penny I earn on this earth that you haven't seen true evil either, but evil is subjective.  Though it is an evil action to mass bomb a population, if you feel it serves to keep you safe you will support it.  Trying to argue that is ridiculous.

And no, I don't want to hear your horror stories because I don't want to be in the position of possibly belittling anything you've gone through.  Just know that any action(s) taken by anyone serves the person or persons who stand to benefit therefore making it bad for you (general you) and good for them.

The only innocent I have acknowledged is Nef and I even posit that she is a weird victim if we are to go by Morinth being drawn to dark and dangeorus places.  The atmosphere of the conversation only carries a hint of what Nef is about, but doesn't make sense in the majority of that conversation.  We don't know what Forta's art is or is about.  We don't know if he/she depicts violent images or serene landscapes.  Nef strikes me as someone who does beautiful art so the connection to someone who's supposed to be a monster as you state makes no sense.

How do we know Morinth melds for pleasure?  If we take Samara at her word Morinth isn't capable of having that exchange reciprocated.  She only gets smarter and stronger.  The people who derive any pleasure from the meld are the ones who end up dead.  Your statement of Morinth deriving pleasure from the act is made up.  There's no evidence that exists that says she receives any pleasure from it at all.

Mindrape...now I know you don't know what you're talking about.  If Morinth needs Shepard's permission to do anything there's no rape of any kind.  She had a suitor who pursued her meaning she didn't take advantage.  Her actions and her words.  Keep trying to spin that if you want.  Doesn't make it true.

[AnAccountWithNoName]

RagnarsGirl wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

RagnarsGirl wrote...

Morinth isn't a monster, she gets together with nef because she wants to be close to her. She has these deep passionate feelings and wants to share it. She's been searching for 100's of years. How would you feel if everytime you wanted to get close to someone you end up killing them. She doesn't target people for their weakness. She's drawn by whatever draws her.
 Morinth is sad and lonely...Yes... A monster no. 

She's drawn to shep because she/he has a powerful dispositon. She says during their converstion on the ship "If anybody can survive..." then she leaves it hanging. She wants companionship. She's searching for companionship. Living your life knowing your own mother is hunting you is inconceivable. Deep down - I'm sure she was waiting for mum to save her. Not kill her. 

She's not on the ship beacause its a vacation. I keep seeing, "she likes dark dangerous places"... How dangerous and dark can the Normandy get? or are we saying vacation, because the Normandy is a touring vessel and commander shep is actually a tour guide.
She has to personify her mother, just to blend in. 

She loves going to clubs and living the high life. The SM is risky and dangerous but not really her flavour

I never said Morinth was a monster.  I don't agree with that stance because the evidence isn't there to make a conclusion.  Any and all conclusions are based on heresay and contrivances.  

I think Morinth joins Shepard because she feels Shepard might be special and might survive, but I won't romanticize it since people against Morinth are more apt to label any of her supporters as demented or anything along that line.

I won't romanticize it either but not because i'm going to be labelled demented. I definately think dhe joins shep beacuse she hopes he can survive.

My "Morinth support" came after months of killing her and keeping Samara. I eventually had enough renegade and guts to kill Samara instead. That's what got me thinking about Samara vs Morinth vs Shep.

Morinth just simply isn't the monster. Of course Samara is going to portray her as one she will say anything to justify her killing her own daughter.  I felt betrayed by Samara after Morinth admits to Shep about how she really feels about being an Ay.

If Morinth is not a Monster......then what is a Monster?  Because if someone in the real world was doing what Morinth was doing, going around, murdering people, whether they are innocent are not, taking pleasure in having "sex" with the victims.  Somebody who ENJOYS hunting and preying (the dialogue supports that Mornith does this)) on others, someone with no regard for the importance of human life...they would be called a MONSTER, even if said monster was sad and lonely.

You can't sugarcoat her actions.

[AnAccountWithNoName]

Xeranx wrote...

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...

No Morinth is evil because she has no regard for other life, except herself.  She also enjoys killing.  And don't give me that evil is subjective bull.  TRUE EVIL does exist in this world.  And you would be stupid to deny it.  Look at history.

I don't understand you.  You acknowledge that the Monster has been killing many innocent people, well we also know she does it for pleasure.  So isn't that evil?  If you don't see that as evil, then what is evil to you?

She also mindrapes as well.

Please tell me where it's shown that Morinth has no regard for life.

"She enjoys killing."  She says she took up dueling and two talking pieces reference that aspect.  That she revels in the death of another after such a competition is no different from Samara the Pious.

I never said true evil doesn't exist.  Don't put words into my mouth.  I believe it does exist, however I've never seen true evil.  And I would bet every single penny I earn on this earth that you haven't seen true evil either, but evil is subjective.  Though it is an evil action to mass bomb a population, if you feel it serves to keep you safe you will support it.  Trying to argue that is ridiculous.

And no, I don't want to hear your horror stories because I don't want to be in the position of possibly belittling anything you've gone through.  Just know that any action(s) taken by anyone serves the person or persons who stand to benefit therefore making it bad for you (general you) and good for them.

The only innocent I have acknowledged is Nef and I even posit that she is a weird victim if we are to go by Morinth being drawn to dark and dangeorus places.  The atmosphere of the conversation only carries a hint of what Nef is about, but doesn't make sense in the majority of that conversation.  We don't know what Forta's art is or is about.  We don't know if he/she depicts violent images or serene landscapes.  Nef strikes me as someone who does beautiful art so the connection to someone who's supposed to be a monster as you state makes no sense.

How do we know Morinth melds for pleasure?  If we take Samara at her word Morinth isn't capable of having that exchange reciprocated.  She only gets smarter and stronger.  The people who derive any pleasure from the meld are the ones who end up dead.  Your statement of Morinth deriving pleasure from the act is made up.  There's no evidence that exists that says she receives any pleasure from it at all.

Mindrape...now I know you don't know what you're talking about.  If Morinth needs Shepard's permission to do anything there's no rape of any kind.  She had a suitor who pursued her meaning she didn't take advantage.  Her actions and her words.  Keep trying to spin that if you want.  Doesn't make it true.

She has no regard for the importance of other life, because she can end said life just for the benefit of herself (whether that is for pleasure, strength, or both, etc).  She is selfish.

But please take this on the other thread about the Monster, because the intention of this thread is not about what makes the Monster a Monster.  I would love to have a debate with you on the other thread, on why she is what i state, but not here:P

[Xeranx]

You don't know what she thins so how can you say that she doesn't care about other life of the importance of other life? She was housed by the Eclipse sisters on Illium and smuggled off-world by them to boot in light of a Justicar pursuing her. Wasea remarks that Morinth is a "filthy creature", but still gave her a place to stay and a way off planet eluding her pursuer. No remarks were made about Morinth killing anyone there.

It's all guesswork that she kills for "pleasure, strength, or both". She has the ability to kill for those benefits but with her being truthful about Nef's death she doesn't mention her reasons for any of the things she does. So, again, where are you getting that she has no importance for any other life but her own? Her pursuer who will be granted some kind of solace in killing her?

You call Morinth selfish not knowing her motives or her drives (just guessing at them) and the one person who would be relieved at her passing is the one who explicity asks that you join her in killing her own daughter (unbeknownst to you at the time).

About that other thread, you posted here first before you created that one. Where we could have discussed Morinth you decided to take her elsewhere. The only reason I mentioned the other thread was in response to you and because you did over there what you could have done here.

The closest example I can think of right now is having a disagreement with a family member in your house and then taking it out to the street to discuss it with other people and then invite said family member to have the same discussion out in public. Why should I do that? If you look at my history there are plenty of Morinth fan threads that I've been a part of that every facet of her character was discussed in those threads.

So, though I have made comments in that thread before (and even provided a link to this thread there), I respectfully decline.  If I decide to post in that thread in the future it will not be at your request.

Modifié par Xeranx, 04 octobre 2011 - 10:49 .

[1136342t54_]

Morinth could be seen on the level of Chaotic evil but I find her more Neutral. My reasons? She follows her addiction and she does that solely through some collateral damage. Morinth has no remorse for her victims at all and fully realizes the extent at which her actions have taken her. Morinth doesn't care about anyone else but herself and her next victim. Its possible she did care about others but due to her condition when she made that first kill she was addicted. The more she kills the more of a psychopath she becomes. It is explicitly stated in the codex that AY eventually become psychopaths the more they kill.

Morinth of course focus on the hunt. She has no ambitions really. If she did its quite possible she could take over a few Merc bands using her mind control abilties and get herself a small army. Morinth however doesn't give a crap about anyone else mostly. Any times someone may have believed she cared for Shepard is likely just her wanting to take on the best meld she would have gotten in centuries.

[D.Kain]

Pretty biased with no reason some people are here, don't you think Xeranx? =)

[Xeranx]

What can you do?

[1136342t54_]

jreezy wrote...

Some people here really need to read the Codex entries.

The codex entries are lies!

[SandTrout]

1136342t54 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Some people here really need to read the Codex entries.

The codex entries are lies!

I wouldn't go that far, but like any information, you need to consider the context of its source.

Modifié par SandTrout, 05 octobre 2011 - 02:27 .

[D.Kain]

1136342t54 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Some people here really need to read the Codex entries.

The codex entries are lies!

We read codex. If it was enough, we wouldn't have this discution in the first place.

[1136342t54_]

SandTrout wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

Some people here really need to read the Codex entries.

The codex entries are lies!

I wouldn't go that far, but like any information, you need to consider the context of its source.

Oh I know that. The thing is the codex entry on the AY seem fairly accurate to be honest. They don't necessarily use too much of the ancient lore as real evidence but its enough to show that a small amount of AY going rogue can disrupt society.  Plus even there psychologists seem to actually be able to figure out the mind of a AY when they continue killing. They turn into psychopaths due to there condition. They would have to atleast not have any empathy to continue killing constantly.

Why would the predator feel sorry for its prey?

Hell even when they say AY cannot cooperate with long term makes sense also. I even doubt AY who wants to go out in to the general populace would even agree to it since that is a lot of temptation around them. Going to a monastery maybe a relief to many.