878 réponses à ce sujet

[D.Kain]

PrimalEden wrote...

Samara's account gives that she was a selfish child despite being happy and free. AY have difficulty empathizing with people given their inability to meld successfully. That in of itself makes AY, like Morinth, inherent sociopaths.
Nowadays, sociopath's a cruel word for those who are taught with love and understanding. For those born with an inability to empathize with others, they can be taught to behave in a more acceptable way. So you are right to believe that a sociopath could be in a healthy relationship.
However in Morinth's case...I think I'm going to just agree to disagree.

Samara said that Morinth was a free child. And that freedom was threatened by the asari society for a not good enough reason. It's their own fault tha she turned to be this way. 

[D.Kain]

Lasien wrote...

It seems to me Morinth is a person with a severe personality disorder, as well as an addict. Those two really don't go together. Basically, the asari are at fault here, because for all intents and purposes, they shut their psychiatric patient away in an asylum without researching a cure. Morinth is at fault as well, however, because she essentially is that one patient that stops taking their medicine because they have decided they are cured. She is a sociopath, and the reason she seems calm on the ship is because sociopaths are very, very, good at pretending to be a normal person. And she may well have a twisted view of what love is. Remember, her first love died while Morinth was jacked into their brain. I don't even want to contemplate what that would do to someone. But while we are remembering that, lets also remember that noone can help her with her addiction or disease until she decides that she is an addict/has the disease, and at endgame of ME2, she was convinced she was perfect.

Morinth is not an addict nor has a personality disorder. Everything is fine with her, that's just what you get when you treat people bad, they treat you bad in return. She doesn't think she is perfect, she just is.

[PauseforEffect]

uhh, they put AY in seclusion to keep them from murdering people. Morinth wasn't even placed in one.

[Ravensword]

Déjà vu.

[D.Kain]

PrimalEden wrote...

uhh, they put AY in seclusion to keep them from murdering people. Morinth wasn't even placed in one.

Morinth was placed in one and she ran away. Putting people into seclusion for them to not murder people, before they do so willingly is bad.

[PauseforEffect]

oooooooookaaaayyy...

[Ravensword]

D.Kain really likes Morinth but is morally conflicted about it b/c of all the mindrape-murders that Morinth's committed.

[D.Kain]

PrimalEden wrote...




oooooooookaaaayyy...

Problem? 

[D.Kain]

Ravensword wrote...

D.Kain really likes Morinth but is morally conflicted about it b/c of all the mindrape-murders that Morinth's committed.

I am, and I am not. I can understand her, even though I wouldn't do it, I can still understand how one CAN do it. And I want her to stop and discover good things in life, and not make her another victim of asari regulations.

[PauseforEffect]

D.Kain wrote...

Problem? 

Me? Nah, I'm the last person who has the right to condemn you for defending a favorite character. Criticize incessantly, maybe, but not condemn.

[D.Kain]

PrimalEden wrote...

Me? Nah, I'm the last person who has the right to condemn you for defending a favorite character. Criticize incessantly, maybe, but not condemn.

The thing is when I was arguing with some people in the other thread about Morinth it came to be just that, they thought seclusion was the right thing and I though that seclusion was a wrong thing. 

So basically, we just can't argue on the character if we do not agree on the root concepts. 

[Radahldo]

Thats not the only thing causing these thread to be circular

[D.Kain]

Radahldo wrote...

Thats not the only thing causing these thread to be circular

Yes also arguments about not having enough information and interpreting the given information differently. And arguments about Samara and her character. 

[Ravensword]

Radahldo wrote...

Thats not the only thing causing these thread to be circular

Morinth is not and evil monster b/c it's the Asari's fault for trying to imprison her and so it's Morinth's right to escape and go about serial killing for the next 600 years b/c of Asari treatment, which is awful b/c it was wrong to put Morinth in seclusion and therefore it is her moral right to escape and go about serial killing for the next 600 years b/c the Asaria are mean for doing that to her. How's my logic?

Modifié par Ravensword, 21 octobre 2011 - 06:52 .

[D.Kain]

Ravensword wrote...

Radahldo wrote...

Thats not the only thing causing these thread to be circular

Morinth is not and evil monster b/c it's the Asari's fault for trying to imprison her and so it's Morinth's right to escape and go about serial killing for the next 600 years b/c of Asari treatment, which is awful b/c it was wrong to put Morinth in seclusion and therefore it is her moral right to escape and go about serial killing for the next 600 years b/c the Asaria are mean for doing that to her. How's my logic?

Well it's almost what I think. But the thing is I also think that it would be different if she wasn't hunted by the Justicars. The fact that she was might have led her to try and gather power to fight them back, because AY become stronger after melding. And seeing as she was at par with Samara I would say she was doing a good job. We also don't know the kind of people she was killing, a lot seems to hint on it being dark people. Maybe Morinth also wanted to brake other AY out of seclusion when she would get enough power. A lot of posibileties. BTW if in ME3 AY start to revolt and that is going to be asari issue, I am going to help the AY. 

[Ravensword]

Actually, D.Kain, I must confess that I wasn't being serious. My logic is quite terrible, and deliberately so.

Modifié par Ravensword, 21 octobre 2011 - 06:58 .

[D.Kain]

Ravensword wrote...

Actually, D.Kain, I must confess that I wasn't being serious. My logic is quite terrible, and deliberately so.

Oh I know. Your logic is actually a good satire on my logic, but the truth is my logic is not so different from what you wrote. Asari could indeed avoid all that has happened, but they were too selfish. 

[Ravensword]

D.Kain wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Actually, D.Kain, I must confess that I wasn't being serious. My logic is quite terrible, and deliberately so.

Oh
I know. Your logic is actually a good satire on my logic, but the truth
is my logic is not so different from what you wrote. Asari could indeed
avoid all that has happened, but they were too selfish. 

I actually wasn't trying to satire your logic, at least not deliberately. I was trying to beg the question.

[D.Kain]

Ravensword wrote...

I actually wasn't trying to satire your logic, at least not deliberately. I was trying to beg the question.

The: how is my logic question? Or what exactly do you want to get?

[Ravensword]

D.Kain wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

I actually wasn't trying to satire your logic, at least not deliberately. I was trying to beg the question.

The: how is my logic question? Or what exactly do you want to get?

It was a response to this:

Radahldo wrote...

Thats not the only thing causing these thread to be circular

I was trying to go for a circular argument.

Modifié par Ravensword, 21 octobre 2011 - 07:12 .

[Radahldo]

Well it's almost what I think. But the thing is I also think that it would be different if she wasn't hunted by the Justicars. The fact that she was might have led her to try and gather power to fight them back, because AY become stronger after melding. And seeing as she was at par with Samara I would say she was doing a good job. We also don't know the kind of people she was killing, a lot seems to hint on it being dark people. Maybe Morinth also wanted to brake other AY out of seclusion when she would get enough power. A lot of posibileties. BTW if in ME3 AY start to revolt and that is going to be asari issue, I am going to help the AY.

Im not trying to be mean or troll you so please dont take it that way



I like morinth and have had pretty serious discussions from a criminology perspective on her character; but, even me, with all the understanding and sympathy my educational background has predisposed me to grant morinth I still find your arguments approaching trolling and very thin, easily toppled.

All of this has forcibly resigned me to the fact that there are not enough facts about her to carry on a conversation that merely doesnt veer off into a samara discussion, much less defend her.

There are some things I agree with you on (like the initial imprisonment being wrong) but I think you should just accept defeat. This just ridiculous I cannot believe how long you all have been having these discussions and I cannot believe your endurance to practically be the sole morinth defender in these discussions.


I tip my hat to you, D. kain.

[D.Kain]

@Radahldo

Yep, I'm still waiting for ME3 to see if my trust in Morinth will not bite me in the ass. I hope not, but I do not have enough information to be 100% sure, as nobody has. But my main concern is the actual amount of screen time Morinth is going to get...

[Radahldo]

I don't see where they can even go, so little was established about her. Her outfit is just an asari commandos, so what variation could they even include thats identifiably morinth like garrus' new armor is?
How would she even interact with the squadmates, who may or may not know she still exists?
What personal quest could she have? We know nothing about what really fuels her. I expect very, very little: It is a waste the character, the voice actor and.. just a really, really big waste.

I dont expect her to be a temp companion--I just expect a cameo.
It depresses me a little.

Modifié par Radahldo, 21 octobre 2011 - 07:25 .

[D.Kain]

Radahldo wrote...

I don't see where they can even go, so little was established about her. Her outfit is just an asari commandos, so what variation could they even include thats identifiably morinth like garrus' new armor is?
How would she even interact with the squadmates, who may or may not know she still exists?
What personal quest could she have? We know nothing about what really fuels her. I expect very, very little: It is a waste the character, the voice actor and.. just a really, really big waste.

I dont expect her to be a temp companion--I just expect a cameo.
It depresses me a little.

Well the best I came up with is: 

AY are revolting against asari and are braking free from seclusions. 
Asari and Justicars need to take care of it, but the AY are also powerful biotics. 
Samara would be on the Justicar side, Morinth would be on the AY side. 
So Shepard meets Morinth and the squad gets surprised, and Shepard says that he will explain latter. 
Then I can either get powerful Justicar biotics on my side and kill Morinth or Help saved Samara. 
Or get the Powerful AY biotics and side with Morinth or kill Samara that was saved.
Since most of the asari do nothing anyway, we will need a group of elite commandos from them, or something like that.

But that's just an: I dream version.

[Radahldo]

I would like to play that. Samaras loyalty was my favorite part of the game. Something like that would very interesting to play and could show interesting sides of both characters, whoever had survived from me2