878 réponses à ce sujet

[Raganheart]

D.Kain wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

 The implications of an Ardat Yakhi being a Justicar would be huge.

I want to play that game!  Or write it.

I had a similar idea about specters. Imagine if Morinth was a specter! I think she would make an awesome one, she poseses all the nescecery. Getting information out of people and frying those that need to be dealt with, and ofcourse her powerful biotics and combat skills. She would also get her danger that she wants and get an exscuse to fry people's brains. 

Awesome idea! Morinth for spectre all the way

[Xeranx]

D.Kain wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

 The implications of an Ardat Yakhi being a Justicar would be huge.

I want to play that game!  Or write it.

I had a similar idea about specters. Imagine if Morinth was a specter! I think she would make an awesome one, she poseses all the nescecery. Getting information out of people and frying those that need to be dealt with, and ofcourse her powerful biotics and combat skills. She would also get her danger that she wants and get an exscuse to fry people's brains. 

Yeah but an Ardat Yakshi Spectre is more of a black mark on the race as a whole.  An Ardat Yakshi Justicar offers much more conflict -- politically and socially as the Council seat is now in dire peril, the Asari would become the new Quarians, and the Asari themselves would have to wonder whether those put down by the Justicars they revered were put down justly or to satisfy a vice (whether it's Ardat Yakhi-ism or a cruel streak...examples being Wasea, and the Asari on Miranda's loyalty mission). 

It's one of the reasons I wondered whether or not the Asari would actively look for a cure for the condition.  If it can be used to lift yourself up then why not make others sacrifice their freedom for your benefit?  Those in seclusion would be cared for and you can give lip service about a cure being sought out.

[BHRamsay]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Morinth is treated very unfairly by the community. She is at her worst as bad as her mother is. Both women are equally dangerous.

However I think Samara gets a bit of a free pass just because people like the idea of what she does. I find her heinous. Morinth is heinous too, but at least she doesn't try to pretend she's anything but a predator.

I find her more entertaining and likable than Samara. She has more personality, more emotion, and a love her flair when she drops the facade. If you take her to Tuchanka she will break her cover a bit.

I wish that Shepard could survive melding with her because I'd love to see how it would affect her to find someone she can be with. Her sociopathy is the natural result of the way she lives. People can never be equal to her, they can never be people, just things. Someone who could survive would be a totally different experience for her.

assuming you don't mind fanfiction ...someone with a hell of a grip on the character made a fic that answers your question as well as if not better then BW ever will

http://www.fanfictio...rinth_In_Flames

[Raganheart]

Interesting details BHRamsay. Nice work! This Morinth thread seems to be running off now. I was actually thinking of another idea that involved fans from all around. Check the link that I provide to see more details. It has to do with fan creation of their own custom character and trying to give it a big push for Bioware to include the winning character in a nice cameo for ME3 or DLC.

http://social.biowar...5/index/8376344

[Xeranx]

BHRamsay wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

Morinth is treated very unfairly by the community. She is at her worst as bad as her mother is. Both women are equally dangerous.

However I think Samara gets a bit of a free pass just because people like the idea of what she does. I find her heinous. Morinth is heinous too, but at least she doesn't try to pretend she's anything but a predator.

I find her more entertaining and likable than Samara. She has more personality, more emotion, and a love her flair when she drops the facade. If you take her to Tuchanka she will break her cover a bit.

I wish that Shepard could survive melding with her because I'd love to see how it would affect her to find someone she can be with. Her sociopathy is the natural result of the way she lives. People can never be equal to her, they can never be people, just things. Someone who could survive would be a totally different experience for her.

assuming you don't mind fanfiction ...someone with a hell of a grip on the character made a fic that answers your question as well as if not better then BW ever will

http://www.fanfictio...rinth_In_Flames

Just read up to chapter 4 and it's good.  But it demonstrates a grip on Morinth's character if that's the way she's displayed completely.  Since she's not a fleshed out character saying that anyone has a grip of who or what she is can ultimately be thrown out if she's written in a more Dexter fashion.

I agree with Saphra in that she's regarded unfairly when just about everyone I've debated with - comparing her and Samara - agrees that Morinth is still not fully developed.  She can go either way and that demonstrates a a failing if she's supposed to be seen as a heartless monster.

I never got the idea that Morinth was supposed to be similar to a vampire.  Yes, despite all the likely hallmarks of vampire tales down to weird skin pigmentation for Asari I never made the connection.  I didn't know what the Demeter was in current folklore other than it was a ship she escaped on to get away from Samara.  So my reaction to her character was and is fresh and not bound by what is probably common knowledge, and I love vampire stories though never read about the person Dracula was based on..Vlad Tepis right?

[PauseforEffect]

It is so weird to see people comparing Morinth as an innocent even after she lies to Nef about who she is, kills her and displays absolutely no remorse whatsoever. Samara always had more honesty and decency than her sociopathic daughter. Though there are complaints that she is underdeveloped, it changes nothing that Morinth killed innocents intentionally and without regret. I see no reason to treat her fairly after what she brainwashed and ruined so many other families' lives. Regardless of how her childhood began, she lost all sympathy when she inflicted pain upon others for her own pleasure.

[Raganheart]

PrimalEden wrote...

It is so weird to see people comparing Morinth as an innocent even after she lies to Nef about who she is, kills her and displays absolutely no remorse whatsoever. Samara always had more honesty and decency than her sociopathic daughter. Though there are complaints that she is underdeveloped, it changes nothing that Morinth killed innocents intentionally and without regret. I see no reason to treat her fairly after what she brainwashed and ruined so many other families' lives. Regardless of how her childhood began, she lost all sympathy when she inflicted pain upon others for her own pleasure.

We don´t claim her innocence. Actually, we are defending her life. Born to be damned is not so good in anyone´s eyes. Who is any to tell you how to live your life because you have a disease, unless it´s medically good advice. It is insane to trap an individual in seclusion. Futhermore, I think it´s against the rights of the species. Just because something is different doesn´t mean you should highlight and outcast it, let alone control the species life and not try to help it medically. Obviously, there is no proof of medical research, but at least something would have come up. They say the condition is rare, but most asari don´t even know that it actually exist. They think it is a myth that they are actually told in childhood. That would only prove that it´s kept under wraps and no one is solving this matter. 

Samara has admitted in her younger years that she has done unlawful things in her past that she would rather forget. I´m guessing killing an innocent is one of them. She has matured now and is also under the justicar code which is a perfect example of good. Samara tries to right her wrongs, but her viscous and mysterious past has come back to haunt her. I guess Samara was lucky not to be killed by another Justicar when she was a mercenary. That kind of sparing she should implement on her daughter. 

Most of us defend Morinth because Samara has to take a good look in the mirror first

[Xilizhra]

It is so weird to see people comparing Morinth as an innocent even after she lies to Nef about who she is, kills her and displays absolutely no remorse whatsoever. Samara always had more honesty and decency than her sociopathic daughter. Though there are complaints that she is underdeveloped, it changes nothing that Morinth killed innocents intentionally and without regret. I see no reason to treat her fairly after what she brainwashed and ruined so many other families' lives. Regardless of how her childhood began, she lost all sympathy when she inflicted pain upon others for her own pleasure.

I personally never see any reason to treat anyone unfairly. My policy is "kill only in self-defense or defense of another," and who's doing what in the confrontation between Morinth and Samara is extremely blurred. I'd save them both if I could, even if it'd mean Samara hunted me. Unfortunately, I can't.

Also, Morinth did say that Nef experienced tremendous pleasure...

They say the condition is rare, but most asari don´t even know that it actually exist. They think it is a myth that they are actually told in childhood. That would only prove that it´s kept under wraps and no one is solving this matter.

Regrettably true.

Most of us defend Morinth because Samara has to take a good look in the mirror first

I don't think Samara is being hypocritical, as such, but I think the whole situation is badly unfortunate.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 25 septembre 2011 - 06:54 .

[Xeranx]

Xilizhra wrote...

I don't think Samara is being hypocritical, as such, but I think the whole situation is badly unfortunate.

My issue with Samara is that when I'm being fed all the horrible stuff about her daughter, hearing things and they they're said that make me think she's trying to justify her position, and telling me she's proud of her daughter though she has to kill her I start to question what's really going on.  And then I realize every detail of Morinth I hear from her pursuer and I see no evidence of anything she's done.  Nef is one instance and the only instance that doesn't involve Samara telling us a story.  I even have established what I feel a very possible and probably occurrence for Nef's death because I don't feel Morinth's attraction to Nef or Shepard match up with Samara's profile of what her daughter likes.

In numerous threads discussing Morinth I have repeatedly stated that there's nothing that says Samara can't play you.  Looking at Samara's situation on Illium and Ayala's knowledge of Justicars there was no middle ground in which Ayala could have asked Samara if she could help using proper channels.  Samara could have requested Illium's police force herself to help her get the information she needed.  She's been chasing Morinth for 400 years.  What was another month at the most?  Instead Shepard walks in and she says, "well I can be held for one day while you search, Shepard.  Any longer and I start killing people on my way out of here.  Not only that.  I can't be placed behind bars."  I find that utterly ridiculous and manipulative of the entire situation and the Asari fascination with Justicars.

Samara knew Morinth left on a ship.  Does Illium not have parking permits that people with space-faring vehicles need to pay for?  Liara, Illium's most powerful power brokers (as I believe she was described), waived Shepard's.  So why wasn't there some way to find out the ships name from someone at the spaceport?

[Xilizhra]

I even have established what I feel a very possible and probably occurrence for Nef's death because I don't feel Morinth's attraction to Nef or Shepard match up with Samara's profile of what her daughter likes.

So what do you think really happened there?

Samara knew Morinth left on a ship. Does Illium not have parking permits that people with space-faring vehicles need to pay for? Liara, Illium's most powerful power brokers (as I believe she was described), waived Shepard's. So why wasn't there some way to find out the ships name from someone at the spaceport?

Interesting, but what motive would she have for saying she couldn't?

[Mr.Pink]

Raganheart wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

 The implications of an Ardat Yakhi being a Justicar would be huge.

I want to play that game!  Or write it.

I had a similar idea about specters. Imagine if Morinth was a specter! I think she would make an awesome one, she poseses all the nescecery. Getting information out of people and frying those that need to be dealt with, and ofcourse her powerful biotics and combat skills. She would also get her danger that she wants and get an exscuse to fry people's brains. 

Awesome idea! Morinth for spectre all the way

You actually think Morinth would be a good Spectre? You do realize she's a sociopath who kills with sex, and thats her only passtime, and she's hooked on narcotics, yet she loves art and movies, with a side of crazy. Sorry, but Morinth as a Spectre would turn out as her killing everyone on the mission, including prisoners, while stoned, and then sleeps with and kills her partner. Ya, that's a great protector of the galaxy.......my opinion anyway. 

Modifié par Mr.Pink, 25 septembre 2011 - 09:54 .

[Raganheart]

Mr.Pink wrote...

Raganheart wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

 The implications of an Ardat Yakhi being a Justicar would be huge.

I want to play that game!  Or write it.

I had a similar idea about specters. Imagine if Morinth was a specter! I think she would make an awesome one, she poseses all the nescecery. Getting information out of people and frying those that need to be dealt with, and ofcourse her powerful biotics and combat skills. She would also get her danger that she wants and get an exscuse to fry people's brains. 

Awesome idea! Morinth for spectre all the way

You actually think Morinth would be a good Spectre? You do realize she's a sociopath who kills with sex, and thats her only passtime, and she's hooked on narcotics, yet she loves art and movies, with a side of crazy. Sorry, but Morinth as a Spectre would turn out as her killing everyone on the mission, including prisoners, while stoned, and then sleeps with and kills her partner. Ya, that's a great protector of the galaxy.......my opinion anyway. 

I totally agree with you on one condition. I want Morinth to be a spectre because the program is a joke. The council has them do their dirty work and when the spectre get in trouble they are cleared depending of how big the incident is. A nice sweep under the rug. Morinth will expose it all!!!!!!! MORINTH FOR SPECTRE!!!!

[Xeranx]

Xilizhra wrote...

I even have established what I feel a very possible and probably occurrence for Nef's death because I don't feel Morinth's attraction to Nef or Shepard match up with Samara's profile of what her daughter likes.

So what do you think really happened there?

It's not about what I think happened, but what I can say is likely.  When I've brought this up it was always my point that despite how people see Morinth as a predator on the innocent that Nef really doesn't need to be innocent.  I don't know how actual investigations work, but I can state that very few people actually know the people they're talking about.  In Nef's case I question what does her mother know about her daughter.  It didn't look like she knew her daughter took drugs.  Nef acquiring a name that would get her into the VIP section would suggest that her mother doesn't know who Nef really hangs out with.  A lot of parents don't for one reason or another.  

My scenario involved Aria using Nef to find out who Morinth is since she acknowledges that she suspected Morinth to be an Ardat Yakshi when we ask her and what she was doing on Omega.  Aria doesn't like anything that could potentially threaten her position on Omega.  She's made herself a good reputation and solidified herself as one to be reckoned with.  So she uses Nef to spy for her and that's how Nef knows to use Jaruut to get into the VIP section.

Morinth, being that she's on the run, would probably be suspicious of any one who might cross her.  Omega's new ground and since she probably didn't get a lay of the land before she touched down she has to do it while trying to maintain her safety. Morinth is already sure the guy talking about Expel 10 is no threat so when the next newcomer arrives she focuses on her.  While working Nef she finds out that Nef is a plant.  Not knowing who for she kills Nef thinking a trap is being set.  When she learns no one comes for Nef she relaxes.  Aria doesn't lose a member of her crew and upon more reconnaisance Morinth learns to stay away from Aria.

It's a bit clumsy, but the sticking point for me is how Nef got the password to get in the VIP section.  

Samara knew Morinth left on a ship. Does Illium not have parking permits that people with space-faring vehicles need to pay for? Liara, Illium's most powerful power brokers (as I believe she was described), waived Shepard's. So why wasn't there some way to find out the ships name from someone at the spaceport?

Interesting, but what motive would she have for saying she couldn't?

I don't know.  She could have avoided killing many Eclipse mercs and probably avoided the scenario of threatening a police officer who is only doing her job.  From everything we're shown all I can surmise is that Samara never tried courteous methods to getting what she wanted.  Instead, she makes an impatient grasp for information when she could have used subtelty.  

[Xilizhra]

My scenario involved Aria using Nef to find out who Morinth is since she acknowledges that she suspected Morinth to be an Ardat Yakshi when we ask her and what she was doing on Omega. Aria doesn't like anything that could potentially threaten her position on Omega. She's made herself a good reputation and solidified herself as one to be reckoned with. So she uses Nef to spy for her and that's how Nef knows to use Jaruut to get into the VIP section.

Interesting, but it doesn't match what Nef's personality seemed to be from her own diary. I don't know how she got the name either, but it seemed to be an unexpected accomplishment from the way she talked about it.

It didn't look like she knew her daughter took drugs.

Actually, Nef's mother specifically mentions this, albeit blaming it on Morinth.

I don't know. She could have avoided killing many Eclipse mercs and probably avoided the scenario of threatening a police officer who is only doing her job. From everything we're shown all I can surmise is that Samara never tried courteous methods to getting what she wanted. Instead, she makes an impatient grasp for information when she could have used subtelty.

True. The justicars aren't much for subtlety, it seems.

[D.Kain]

@Xeranx I like your approach, you have interesting thoughts.

[Sepewrath]

Raganheart wrote...
We don´t claim her innocence. Actually, we are defending her life. Born to be damned is not so good in anyone´s eyes. Who is any to tell you how to live your life because you have a disease, unless it´s medically good advice. It is insane to trap an individual in seclusion. Futhermore, I think it´s against the rights of the species. Just because something is different doesn´t mean you should highlight and outcast it, let alone control the species life and not try to help it medically. Obviously, there is no proof of medical research, but at least something would have come up. They say the condition is rare, but most asari don´t even know that it actually exist. They think it is a myth that they are actually told in childhood. That would only prove that it´s kept under wraps and no one is solving this matter. 

Its more than medically good advice, its socially the right thing to do. Look at what the outcome was of not doing something, a 400yr killing spree. To argue against the measures taken against them, when Morinth is the only example of one "in the wild" so to say, is isane. It would be one thing if Morinth was just one of many, with others not doing anything, as far as we can tell right now, what you see in Morinth is what you get in free A-Y--a predator.

There is nothing to suggest that they don't try to help them, but it cant be cured, so the only thing is to keep them in seclusion. Its better for them and everyone else, she has to live her life hunted like an animal, while she takes the lives of others, still a prisoner, there is just a different kind of walls. And of course its kept under wraps, the Asari position would fall apart in the galaxy if people started think that an Asari can kill you with a glance or a touch. Morinth was dealt a bad hand, that sucks, But she took it and decided to use it to ruin other peoples lives, I don't feel sorry for her and Samara should have killed her.

@Xeranx

Morinth was smuggled off world, key word "smuggled" of course there was no record of it at the spaceport.

Modifié par Sepewrath, 25 septembre 2011 - 11:48 .

[Xilizhra]

It would be one thing if Morinth was just one of many, with others not doing anything, as far as we can tell right now, what you see in Morinth is what you get in free A-Y--a predator.

After having been imprisoned. She had to actively escape.

Morinth was dealt a bad hand, that sucks, But she took it and decided to use it to ruin other peoples lives, I don't feel sorry for her and Samara should have killed her.

Theoretically, if some solution was found, she could stop. Could Samara stop the whole justicar thing?

Modifié par Xilizhra, 25 septembre 2011 - 11:45 .

[Xeranx]

Xilizhra wrote...

My scenario involved Aria using Nef to find out who Morinth is since she acknowledges that she suspected Morinth to be an Ardat Yakshi when we ask her and what she was doing on Omega. Aria doesn't like anything that could potentially threaten her position on Omega. She's made herself a good reputation and solidified herself as one to be reckoned with. So she uses Nef to spy for her and that's how Nef knows to use Jaruut to get into the VIP section.

Interesting, but it doesn't match what Nef's personality seemed to be from her own diary. I don't know how she got the name either, but it seemed to be an unexpected accomplishment from the way she talked about it.

Unfortunately it doesn't really have to match Nef's personality and someone could write it better than I could so it could fit.  It was an example to show that I could fit a possibility in there.  Another one in the same vein doesn't include Nef knowing what she's in for or that she's made a patsy.

It didn't look like she knew her daughter took drugs.

Actually, Nef's mother specifically mentions this, albeit blaming it on Morinth.

I did forget that.  My apologies.

iOnlySignIn wrote...

My scenario involved Aria using Nef to find out who Morinth is since she acknowledges that she suspected Morinth to be an Ardat Yakshi when we ask her and what she was doing on Omega. Aria doesn't like anything that could potentially threaten her position on Omega. She's made herself a good reputation and solidified herself as one to be reckoned with. So she uses Nef to spy for her and that's how Nef knows to use Jaruut to get into the VIP section.

Unlikely. Aria's and Morinth's objectives are completely independent of each other. I'd believe Aria's indifference towards Morinth ("She hasn't tried to seduce me.") to be genuine.

That is more than likely the case for Morinth, but Aria has to ensure that she's top dog.  She did it with the old Krogan and kept him around as a symbol for everyone else to keep away.  Anyone who knows the history between those two will tell anyone else to not get on her bad side.  A datapad found while trying to get to Garrus and Ish's mission tell us that there are people looking to knock her out.  So a new kid on the block will definitely get Aria's attention just as surely as Shepard got it when (s)he arrived.

My scenario or a different version of it can certainly fit in with Aria's indifference if she feels that Morinth isn't a threat after trying to figure her out from afar.

Edited to add last bit and fix quoting.

Modifié par Xeranx, 25 septembre 2011 - 11:50 .

[Xilizhra]

Unfortunately it doesn't really have to match Nef's personality and someone could write it better than I could so it could fit. It was an example to show that I could fit a possibility in there. Another one in the same vein doesn't include Nef knowing what she's in for or that she's made a patsy.

Nef may have been used as a pawn by Aria, I agree, but I doubt she'd have any knowledge of it.

[Sepewrath]

Xilizhra wrote...

It would be one thing if Morinth was just one of many, with others not doing anything, as far as we can tell right now, what you see in Morinth is what you get in free A-Y--a predator.

After having been imprisoned. She had to actively escape.

Morinth was dealt a bad hand, that sucks, But she took it and decided to use it to ruin other peoples lives, I don't feel sorry for her and Samara should have killed her.

Theoretically, if some solution was found, she could stop. Could Samara stop the whole justicar thing?

Of course Samara could stop, its a choice, she chose to be and to continue to be a Justicar. At any point she could disregard that code and quit. If Morinth could be cured, she would still have to be locked up, because she was killing people for 4 centuries, you would have to keep her locked up for a long time to see how adjusted she is. Where as the ones locked up already, would probably be automatically released.

[Xeranx]

Sepewrath wrote...

@Xeranx

Morinth was smuggled off world, key word "smuggled" of course there was no record of it at the spaceport.

The ship was more than likely docked at the spaceport prior to that event.  Possibly legally.  Any smuggler can have a legit vessel to dock and disembark.  The reasons for that vessel being anywhere is up to the smuggler.  So long as he or she doesn't advertise that their business is illegal they're not doing any harm in the eyes of law enforcement.  It's why drug trafficking takes time to uncover and human smuggling has to be investigated.  Pitne For is a smuggler if I recall, but it seems as though he had legally docked his ship at the spaceport.  No criminal organization will make it known what they're doing unless they really have top members of law enforcement in their pockets.

[Xeranx]

Xilizhra wrote...

Unfortunately it doesn't really have to match Nef's personality and someone could write it better than I could so it could fit. It was an example to show that I could fit a possibility in there. Another one in the same vein doesn't include Nef knowing what she's in for or that she's made a patsy.

Nef may have been used as a pawn by Aria, I agree, but I doubt she'd have any knowledge of it.

I agree.

Modifié par Xeranx, 25 septembre 2011 - 11:58 .