878 réponses à ce sujet

[Sepewrath]

Xeranx wrote...
The ship was more than likely docked at the spaceport prior to that event.  Possibly legally.  Any smuggler can have a legit vessel to dock and disembark.  The reasons for that vessel being anywhere is up to the smuggler.  So long as he or she doesn't advertise that their business is illegal they're not doing any harm in the eyes of law enforcement.  It's why drug trafficking takes time to uncover and human smuggling has to be investigated.  Pitne For is a smuggler if I recall, but it seems as though he had legally docked his ship at the spaceport.  No criminal organization will make it known what they're doing unless they really have top members of law enforcement in their pockets.

And being a gang known for illegal activities, obviously any ships legally involved with the spaceport, would not be registered to said gang; because it would be greatly scrutinized. Every time you leave and come in, they would search your ship, so no one would know which ship is yours. Hence, even looking at what ships came and went, would be of no value to Samara. Pitne For was suppose to be a legitimate business owner, so there would be no reason to suspect his ships. But everyone knows the Eclipse are criminals, so having a ship with a big Eclipse logo on the side, probably not a good idea. Hence you would have to go find out specifically which ship is there's.

[Xilizhra]

Of course Samara could stop, its a choice, she chose to be and to continue to be a Justicar. At any point she could disregard that code and quit. If Morinth could be cured, she would still have to be locked up, because she was killing people for 4 centuries, you would have to keep her locked up for a long time to see how adjusted she is. Where as the ones locked up already, would probably be automatically released.

As Shepard, I would try to keep her protected if that happened.

[AnAccountWithNoName]

Morinth is a complete MONSTER. And i hate monsters. I don't know how anyone could pick her over the other one.

In a way she is worse then Saren. At least (if you do paragon options), you find out that Saren has some "humanity" left in him, and because of that commits suicide in the end, realizing his mistakes.

While Morinth has no conscience.


Bringing a monster like Morinth onto the Normandy, is like bringing Saren onto the ship, except worse.

There is no morality or rationality involved in choosing Morinth over Samara.

[Xeranx]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

That is more than likely the case for Morinth, but Aria has to ensure that she's top dog.  She did it with the old Krogan and kept him around as a symbol for everyone else to keep away.  Anyone who knows the history between those two will tell anyone else to not get on her bad side.  A datapad found while trying to get to Garrus and Ish's mission tell us that there are people looking to knock her out.  So a new kid on the block will definitely get Aria's attention just as surely as Shepard got it when (s)he arrived.

My scenario or a different version of it can certainly fit in with Aria's indifference if she feels that Morinth isn't a threat after trying to figure her out from afar.

Aria is concerned with *social* dominance, and only over Omega. That is why she's concerned with individuals who have leadership qualities that might overthrow her, e.g. Patriarch, Shepard, the Shadow Broker.

Morinth is concerned with *personal* dominance, over any individual really (although she does prefer certain individuals), and has no particular interest in Omega.

I never said Aria wanted dominance over areas other than Omega.  At the same time we don't know what Morinth's motivations are so we can't say that Aria might not regard her as a threat.

Morinth's concern with personal dominance may be likely but it's largely unknown.  Samara says that Morinth held a village in thrall and they did anything they wanted.  At that point she exhibited social dominance on them as well as far as Samara tells it.  We can't say with surety what her motivations are so defining her to the point of saying she's only concerned with personal dominance doesn't work.

I think Aria can gather this much simply from observing Morinth's behavioral patterns. There is no need for her to send out a particular probe/sacrifice such as Nef. There is no need even for her to know that Morinth is an Ardat-Yakshi. To her Morinth is just another decadent customer at her club searching for prey. One of possibly millions she has seen passing through. I doubt it would arouse her interest as much as you're suggesting.

How else will Aria observe Morinth than to have others do it for her?  Especially if Morinth tries not to call attention to herself?  

Aria has an entire club to run and a whole asteroid to keep in line.  She's going to delegate those responsibilities as she sees fit.  Good examples of this are Gavorn who minds the Vorcha, the slums quarantine, and the Batarian who greets Shepard outside the docking bay doors.

She's not going to leave things to chance, and she's not going to sacrifice her own if she can get the job done just as well with using someone else.  Doing otherwise doesn't inspire confidence or trust and leaves you open to mutiny.  Using someone else, however, engenders trust that even if one or two were to try something the rest would remember that they weren't sent to risk their lives pointlessly.

[Xilizhra]

Morinth is a complete MONSTER. And i hate monsters. I don't know how anyone could pick her over the other one.

I don't believe in monsters.

While Morinth has no conscience.

She's not sufficiently fleshed out to determine that.

[AnAccountWithNoName]

Xilizhra wrote...

Morinth is a complete MONSTER. And i hate monsters. I don't know how anyone could pick her over the other one.

I don't believe in monsters.

While Morinth has no conscience.

She's not sufficiently fleshed out to determine that.

LOL.....just keep telling yourself that.  Because the Monsters sure don't care if you don't believe in them.

There is plenty of proof that Monsters exist anyway.

And i think bioware heavily implied that Morinth had no concsience, though if you have a convincing argument against that, i would like to here that.

[Xeranx]

Sepewrath wrote...

Xeranx wrote...
The ship was more than likely docked at the spaceport prior to that event.  Possibly legally.  Any smuggler can have a legit vessel to dock and disembark.  The reasons for that vessel being anywhere is up to the smuggler.  So long as he or she doesn't advertise that their business is illegal they're not doing any harm in the eyes of law enforcement.  It's why drug trafficking takes time to uncover and human smuggling has to be investigated.  Pitne For is a smuggler if I recall, but it seems as though he had legally docked his ship at the spaceport.  No criminal organization will make it known what they're doing unless they really have top members of law enforcement in their pockets.

And being a gang known for illegal activities, obviously any ships legally involved with the spaceport, would not be registered to said gang; because it would be greatly scrutinized. Every time you leave and come in, they would search your ship, so no one would know which ship is yours. Hence, even looking at what ships came and went, would be of no value to Samara. Pitne For was suppose to be a legitimate business owner, so there would be no reason to suspect his ships. But everyone knows the Eclipse are criminals, so having a ship with a big Eclipse logo on the side, probably not a good idea. Hence you would have to go find out specifically which ship is there's.

And that's where law enforcement comes in.  Being in a position to lose a suspect or a likely lead, Samara should have made nice and asked if help could be given to her.  I'm sure that the Illium police department tries their best to know what the Eclipse sisters are up to, but if the sisters move around at the very least the spaceports can be under surveillance.  That leads to confidential informants.  Someone has to know something otherwise the Eclipse sisters on Illium are just too damn good to get caught.

Samara, as a Justicar, is well respected and feared by Asari.  I feel Ayala's bosses are Asari themselves, but even if they're not there is Ayala and other Asari working law enforcement.  Samara telling them that there's an Ardat Yakshi on Illium would be enough to get some of them to lend a helping hand.  Off-duty if need be.  Keep in mind that Samara wasn't detained for killing anyone.  She was being detained because the potential existed that she would kill non-Asari.

Samara never has to divulge that Morinth is her daughter and it's quite odd that given the similarities the Eclipse sisters and even Wasea never show that they've made the connection themselves.  

[D.Kain]

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Morinth is a complete MONSTER. And i hate monsters. I don't know how anyone could pick her over the other one.

I don't believe in monsters.

While Morinth has no conscience.

She's not sufficiently fleshed out to determine that.

LOL.....just keep telling yourself that.  Because the Monsters sure don't care if you don't believe in them.

There is plenty of proof that Monsters exist anyway.

And i think bioware heavily implied that Morinth had no concsience, though if you have a convincing argument against that, i would like to here that.

Even her following Shepard to the ship after Samara was dead is enough of a proof. Stop trolling. 

Modifié par D.Kain, 26 septembre 2011 - 01:47 .

[Xeranx]

D.Kain wrote...

@Xeranx I like your approach, you have interesting thoughts.

Thanks. Sorry I missed it earlier.

[D.Kain]

Xeranx wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

@Xeranx I like your approach, you have interesting thoughts.

Thanks. Sorry I missed it earlier.

Yeah I didn't even think about Samara that way. I though that she could have been lying but didn't think about her own actions so deep.

[AnAccountWithNoName]

D.Kain wrote...

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Morinth is a complete MONSTER. And i hate monsters. I don't know how anyone could pick her over the other one.

I don't believe in monsters.

While Morinth has no conscience.

She's not sufficiently fleshed out to determine that.

LOL.....just keep telling yourself that.  Because the Monsters sure don't care if you don't believe in them.

There is plenty of proof that Monsters exist anyway.

And i think bioware heavily implied that Morinth had no concsience, though if you have a convincing argument against that, i would like to here that.

Even her following Shepard to the ship after Samara was dead is enough of a proof. Stop trolling. 

I am not trolling.  And how is following Shepard to his ship = having a conscience?  If she actually had a conscience i wouldn't even be calling her a monster.  She did not work in destroying the collector's base because she cared about the innocent life that the collectors could have destroyed, she is self-centered.  The collectors are a threat to her, besides if the Reapers wipe out all life, then that destroys her "fun".

[Xilizhra]

I am not trolling. And how is following Shepard to his ship = having a conscience? If she actually had a conscience i wouldn't even be calling her a monster. She did not work in destroying the collector's base because she cared about the innocent life that the collectors could have destroyed, she is self-centered. The collectors are a threat to her, besides if the Reapers wipe out all life, then that destroys her "fun".

I should also note that she compliments Shepard on destroying the Collector base, saying that it was an abomination.

[Xilizhra]

She might have been in love. Might have thought it would have worked out.

I personally believe that she hopes it'll work out with Shepard.

[Radahldo]

Everyone says destroying base was good idea.
I don't think the game gives enough information to say whether she has a conscience.
It probably wouldnt have taken a lot though. Just a little backstory and pensive expressions (like jack) or something, so I dont understand why everyone treats it like a dealbreaker.

[Sepewrath]

Xeranx wrote...
And that's where law enforcement comes in.  Being in a position to lose a suspect or a likely lead, Samara should have made nice and asked if help could be given to her.  I'm sure that the Illium police department tries their best to know what the Eclipse sisters are up to, but if the sisters move around at the very least the spaceports can be under surveillance.  That leads to confidential informants.  Someone has to know something otherwise the Eclipse sisters on Illium are just too damn good to get caught.

You do realize that she was a on schedule right, she wasn't going to wait around for a police investigation, giving Morinth more time to escape. She just got stuck with Shepard, because she either had to kill the cops or let Morinth get further away by joining Shepard. The cops were detaining her, like you said, because she was a danger to cause a diplomatic incident. They were not going to work with her, he code demands she kills people, when they found out Pitne For was a smuggler, she would have shot him in the face lol. They cant have that. A mix wouldn't work, it works for Shep, because everyone Shepard talks to dies anyway.

[Xilizhra]

Ferris95 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

She might have been in love. Might have thought it would have worked out.

I personally believe that she hopes it'll work out with Shepard.

Well I'm not so sure about being in love with Shepard. I always assumed that her first kill was entirely accidental. Maybe she kept her condition a secret thinking she could control it. She couldn't. Maybe it's just me but I always detected a small hint of her condition being a lot like an addiction. I hope ME3 explores her character more to flesh her out more. Really just explore what it means to be a reluctant monster.

My personal backstory has her denying to herself that she was an Ardat-Yakshi until her second kill, which wasn't for a while after she fled Thessia.
And it's also very blatantly an addiction.

[Xilizhra]

Agreed. We shall hope for ME3...

[D.Kain]

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...


I am not trolling.  And how is following Shepard to his ship = having a conscience?  If she actually had a conscience i wouldn't even be calling her a monster.  She did not work in destroying the collector's base because she cared about the innocent life that the collectors could have destroyed, she is self-centered.  The collectors are a threat to her, besides if the Reapers wipe out all life, then that destroys her "fun".

She could just kill Shepard and walk away after Samara was dead, or run away, I can't see how Shepard would be able to stop her without weapons and armor and with Shepards biotics being inferior. Shepard would never find her again. But she decided to come
And it actually makes me feel very good that Morinth is there for Shepard and not for the mission. She is there because she is grateful and doesn't care what I need to do, she is there to help. 

Anyway that again my interpritation, I do agree that we just don't have enough information about her. But these actions that she made speak to me as is written above.

Modifié par D.Kain, 26 septembre 2011 - 02:55 .

[Xeranx]

Sepewrath wrote...

Xeranx wrote...
And that's where law enforcement comes in.  Being in a position to lose a suspect or a likely lead, Samara should have made nice and asked if help could be given to her.  I'm sure that the Illium police department tries their best to know what the Eclipse sisters are up to, but if the sisters move around at the very least the spaceports can be under surveillance.  That leads to confidential informants.  Someone has to know something otherwise the Eclipse sisters on Illium are just too damn good to get caught.

You do realize that she was a on schedule right, she wasn't going to wait around for a police investigation, giving Morinth more time to escape. She just got stuck with Shepard, because she either had to kill the cops or let Morinth get further away by joining Shepard. The cops were detaining her, like you said, because she was a danger to cause a diplomatic incident. They were not going to work with her, he code demands she kills people, when they found out Pitne For was a smuggler, she would have shot him in the face lol. They cant have that. A mix wouldn't work, it works for Shep, because everyone Shepard talks to dies anyway.

Her schedule doesn't matter since the brute force she was exerting was getting her nowhere anyway.  If anything, it was pushing her schedule that farther back.  Her lack of finesse pushed away law enforcement.  At the rate she was going she'd have to go through every single Eclipse sister to get the information she needed if they decided to not comply.  Judging by the actions of Elnora (the new recruit) and Wasea (head of the Eclipse sisters on Illium) she would have killed them all.  Maybe then she would have gotten to the manifest, but how much time would she have wasted?  Also, if Shepard never entered the picture what would her resulting position be?  

Modifié par Xeranx, 26 septembre 2011 - 03:22 .

[D.Kain]

Xeranx wrote...

Sepewrath wrote...

Xeranx wrote...
And that's where law enforcement comes in.  Being in a position to lose a suspect or a likely lead, Samara should have made nice and asked if help could be given to her.  I'm sure that the Illium police department tries their best to know what the Eclipse sisters are up to, but if the sisters move around at the very least the spaceports can be under surveillance.  That leads to confidential informants.  Someone has to know something otherwise the Eclipse sisters on Illium are just too damn good to get caught.

You do realize that she was a on schedule right, she wasn't going to wait around for a police investigation, giving Morinth more time to escape. She just got stuck with Shepard, because she either had to kill the cops or let Morinth get further away by joining Shepard. The cops were detaining her, like you said, because she was a danger to cause a diplomatic incident. They were not going to work with her, he code demands she kills people, when they found out Pitne For was a smuggler, she would have shot him in the face lol. They cant have that. A mix wouldn't work, it works for Shep, because everyone Shepard talks to dies anyway.

Her schedule doesn't matter since the brute force she was exerting was getting her nowhere anyway.  Her lack of finesse pushed away law enforcement.  If Shepard never entered the picture what would her resulting position be?  

A bunch of dead cops, and no Morinth caught. 

Modifié par D.Kain, 26 septembre 2011 - 03:21 .

[Xeranx]

D.Kain wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

Sepewrath wrote...

Xeranx wrote...
And that's where law enforcement comes in.  Being in a position to lose a suspect or a likely lead, Samara should have made nice and asked if help could be given to her.  I'm sure that the Illium police department tries their best to know what the Eclipse sisters are up to, but if the sisters move around at the very least the spaceports can be under surveillance.  That leads to confidential informants.  Someone has to know something otherwise the Eclipse sisters on Illium are just too damn good to get caught.

You do realize that she was a on schedule right, she wasn't going to wait around for a police investigation, giving Morinth more time to escape. She just got stuck with Shepard, because she either had to kill the cops or let Morinth get further away by joining Shepard. The cops were detaining her, like you said, because she was a danger to cause a diplomatic incident. They were not going to work with her, he code demands she kills people, when they found out Pitne For was a smuggler, she would have shot him in the face lol. They cant have that. A mix wouldn't work, it works for Shep, because everyone Shepard talks to dies anyway.

Her schedule doesn't matter since the brute force she was exerting was getting her nowhere anyway.  Her lack of finesse pushed away law enforcement.  If Shepard never entered the picture what would her resulting position be?  

A bunch of dead cops, and no Morinth caught. 

Well, yes.  And I edited my post to add more about the Eclipse sisters.  It's like if things go bad you can't let them just be slightly bad, you have to make sure you fail with gusto.