163 réponses à ce sujet

[Rob Sabbaggio]

I loved my Hawke characters and I cant imagine DA2 DLC without them.

I actually liked the fact that he was trying to be the hero but couldnt win. It made a nice change from the all-conquering superhero who rights all wrongs. Sometimes, life just isnt like that.

I've always felt it was a shame that Bioware have got criticised for trying something different story-wise.

Anyway, I think this sets up a wonderful expansion possibility, where Hawke finally gets his chance to shine. Like any good story arc, Hawke has to deal with bitter defeat (DA2) before finally emerging victorious.

He couldnt stop the war starting, but he could still finish it.

Epic.

[dsl08002]

Normaly I would hale new characters in a franchise with enthusiasim and have high expectations of the game....
however in this case regarding DA franchise there are to many main characters at the moment wich have a much more deeper connection to the entire world of thedas and their story needs to end before going to the next.

the warden regardless if some players warden died is still alive in DA2 and on a mission that has ties to DA3,

Same goes for hawke that also is on a mission with ties to DA3 but we might see more dlc:s

if you bring in new pc than you will follow him/her, meet new friends and cameos, discover new places and shape the world, but then that is it, then in the next game you will be a new character and then it will be to many stories to keep track on.

DA isn´t ME i know but in ME you will follow a character through 3 games, you will fight along side characters you have known since the first game and you have a story line that is so long and then in the third game you will finally meet an epic conclusion.

that was what i felt when I played as the warden i thought that it was going to be an epic journey, like ME.

[Huntress]

Many already knows that any future DA game will have a NEW hero, what many have forgotten is that HAWKE is not meant to save the world or stop any war, hawke job is to get to power by all means. rofl..

I know Hawke is not going to take part of the mages/templar war, I would love too because one of my hawkes is with Anders, but in reallity Hawke, is not meant to get any real influence as the warden who saved a hole country from a blight.
Kirkwall is Just a city in the free marches and by no means Hawke leave the city in a peaceful state.. All my littles problems is about hawke not been able to do the little things is suppose to do, Like saving the ones around him/her other than that hawke is a superb superficial character and I really like it.

Let me point to out when hawke talks to Anders:
Anders said: You should be the leader in the war bah blah
Hawke: I didn't know is was going to go that far /diplomat
Hawke: me? a Leader? pff /sarcastic.

Now if the players who do not like hawke because is not saving the world want to whine and B,,,, for another 8 months, go ahead.

Modifié par Huntress, 23 septembre 2011 - 02:21 .

[RagingCyclone]

I like the idea of dlc's with companions or npc's because of one simple fact (for me at least)...I neither like my Hawke's or hate them...I just don't really care what happened to any of them. I have twelve finished wardens, and I like them enough I can write stories about them. I have six Hawke's (3 male and 3 female) and yet I feel nothing for any of them. I like that Hawke was ineffectual in Act 3, I liked some of the story arc that played out, but Hawke for me was just not interesting enough in any of the facets through the six of them. Each had a different romance, each a different personality and reasoning for doing what they did, and each did not touch me in any way. I played with different classes, different mixtures of outcomes and yet none inspire me to write anything about them. For me it's sad commentary when some of the npc's had more value to me than the character I was playing. So I can agree largely with the OP, some of the dlc's I would like to see other than Hawke. I have more interest in playing one centered around Charade than I do Hawke. I know it's not a majority outlook...but there it is.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Poor Hawke all he wanted was a hug and this is what he gets instead.

[billy the squid]

Rob Sabbaggio wrote...

I loved my Hawke characters and I cant imagine DA2 DLC without them.

I actually liked the fact that he was trying to be the hero but couldnt win. It made a nice change from the all-conquering superhero who rights all wrongs. Sometimes, life just isnt like that.

I've always felt it was a shame that Bioware have got criticised for trying something different story-wise.

Anyway, I think this sets up a wonderful expansion possibility, where Hawke finally gets his chance to shine. Like any good story arc, Hawke has to deal with bitter defeat (DA2) before finally emerging victorious.

He couldnt stop the war starting, but he could still finish it.

Epic.

No, they got critisized because they did a poor job in doing it.

The entire third act was a debacle, best left forgotten. Initially why both the Qunari and the Mage vs Templars were included doesn't make sense, particularly when one could have been focused on in greater detail instead of trying to do both, but not executing it satisfactorily.

Whislt Mage Vs Templars was simply lacked any detail and devolved into A vs B where by the mages are bad, Templars try to kill them. Orsino goes mad and so does Meredith. Thats it?

There was detail on the different factions, in DAO, Libertarians, Isolationists, Loyalists and Antequarians among others within the Circle of Magi, why could this not have been expanded for DA2, the idea itself had potential. For instance in one side quest of DA2 we had Mages and Templars working together. This is good, I could see that going somewhere could I use this as champion of Kirkwall to remove or erode Meredith's position?

Nope, because one mage is a blood mage and comes up with some contrite reason why Hawke must be killed, kills the Templar and the combat starts all over again. I'm left feeling that everything Hawke does is largely pointless and whilst they may have wanted to instill a sense of helplessness in the player regarding the inexorable move towards the conflict, they did a shoddy job doing so. Particularly when one's direct invlovement in the situation does nothing to even mitigate the coming conflict or provide a semblance that some effect can be made between the differing faction of the Templars and Mages, without stopping the conflict itself.

It is that lack of detail and depth with irritates me, it makes it no better that the standard save the world storyline in DAO. Infact it makes it worse if the focus is on Hawke's position within Kirkwall, as I had no investment in them as characters. So I felt rather indifferent, I didn't care what happened to my siblings and playing as Hawke became a chore, with no reason as to why I should be continuing these quests. There were moments particularly some of the companions which I enjoyed, but they were few and far between.

I take a less sympathetic approach to the use of an expansion, particularly as DA2 smacks of a holding pattern, until the next one comes out, to continue the saga which was left hanging, for the simple price of £40. Personally I'd prefer to just let Hawke die as a character, I find him tainted by association. I wouldn't mind the Warden returning, but neither would I begrudge a new character, even one without the multiple origins, so long as they are given depth when they are introduced.

Modifié par billy the squid, 23 septembre 2011 - 03:13 .

[Pasquale1234]

jbrand2002uk wrote...
For me i found the whole Origins thing nothing more than a mask to compensate for being forced to join the wardens then forced to raise an army and then forced to save thedas from the impending doom of the Darkspawn horde which for me made the whole idea of choosing a race then setting whether you were poor,working class or privileged rather pointless plus it meant for me that your PC has no mystery to them since as you know how they lived etc.
 

Forced this... Forced that... I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would even bother to play a game if they did not accept the premise of the role they are to play and fully embrace the goals and objectives of that role.  Gaming is supposed to be entertaining at the very least (and sometimes enlightening, enriching, etc., in other respects).  You were not forced to play the game at all.  If the premise of a game does not appeal to me, I don't waste my time or money on it.

oh woopie doo xkg you can choose from 6 different surnames how
exciting........not the Warden is still fixed as you still must become a
grey warden regardless of you race or social standing it makes no
differance

After enjoying quite a few different playthroughs of DAO, I am currently playing a casteless (commoner) dwarf rogue for the first time, and am finding it to be an entirely different experience to see the world, the characters, the journey through her eyes.  Her reactions to her environment and experiences are very different from any other warden I've played thus far.  It's what some people would call actually role-playing - and that is something I found it very difficult (in some cases, nigh impossible) to do with Hawke, and for several reasons.

Chief among them were the VO and identical cinematics for each response for every Hawke you might want to try to play.  Bigger yet was the lack of any overarching motivation.  If your Hawke values wealth and status, well you spend the first Act scraping up the coin to invest in the expedition, but have no further motivation once Act 2 starts.  If your Hawke is family-focused, well, that motivation is lost by the middle of Act 2.  Want to save Kirkwall from the threat posed in Act 2?  Yeah, okay, you can do that.  But what possible reason do you have to continue playing through Act 3?  Despite my best efforts, I could not find a Hawke that would stick around and go through all of that with all of the limitations, restrictions, railroaded story events forced on her.

On Topic:  I can see how some DLCs similar to "Leliana's Song" could be interesting.  For example, the background story of how Anders and Justice came to merge; Isabela freeing the slaves through crashing in Kirkwall, that sort of thing.  I don't know that I would want to suggest any of those be produced, though, at least not for me.  I'm pretty much finished with DA2.

[rolson00]

Rob Sabbaggio wrote...

I loved my Hawke characters and I cant imagine DA2 DLC without them.

I actually liked the fact that he was trying to be the hero but couldnt win. It made a nice change from the all-conquering superhero who rights all wrongs. Sometimes, life just isnt like that.

I've always felt it was a shame that Bioware have got criticised for trying something different story-wise.

Anyway, I think this sets up a wonderful expansion possibility, where Hawke finally gets his chance to shine. Like any good story arc, Hawke has to deal with bitter defeat (DA2) before finally emerging victorious.

He couldnt stop the war starting, but he could still finish it.

Epic.

i never got da2(as i dont like it) but its what the da seires needs as good as da:o was it didnt leave any room for another game(the big gaping flaw in da:o), bioware had to make a da game that would allow them to make more. to me da2 lackedthe warmth of the 1sgt like leliana song and duncans and the kings death.

[Salaya]

Morroian wrote...

...

Hawke isn't a fixed character any more than say a Cousland warden was. I've got 5 Hawke's all quite different in personality.

I never said that Hawke is a fixed character, but a clear progression to that idea. Hawke, wheter you find origins differences important-relevant or not, is less customizable than the warden.

[Arthur Cousland]

While some may have liked the dlcs such as Leliana's Song and Darkspawn Chronicles, they both got one playthrough from me. I preferred the others as they were all together part of my warden's epic journey from his origin story to Witch Hunt.

Similarly with DA2, I prefer any possible dlc to feature Hawke as the main character.

As a side benefit of having Hawke in all of the DA2 dlc, they can actually approach the lv 50 cap without exploits. Most people who've played through DA2+Legacy seem to have reached no higher than ~lv 28, which is slightly over half of the total level cap. Before the book is closed on Hawke's DA2 journey, I want to fill out more of the ability trees.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Morroian wrote...

Salaya wrote...

I understand the claims of the people who likes Hawke... and probably, if I liked the character, I would say similar things. But, apart form that, I see this progression to fixed characters as one of those things that negates crpg roots.

Hawke isn't a fixed character any more than say a Cousland warden was. I've got 5 Hawke's all quite different in personality.

He/she is fixed character to me.

The only 2 different Hawkes I have are male and female. But that because of voice acting. Other than that, both gender are dominant diplomatic or Sarcastic or Agrresisive. All 6 of them. 3 more never pass ACT I because I gave up trying to play the character as myself.  3 fail attempts to role play Hawkes. 6 successful playthrough only because I view Hawke as nothing but another NPC like Anders, Fenris, Varric and the rest. I've tried to like Hawke. I like female Hawke sarcastic and male Hawke subtle voice acting. But he/she is not my character. He/she will never be. There're too many flaws. Some may ignore the voice tone incohesiveness problem. I can't. Some may find it interesting to see their character blabbering by himself/herself without player input. I find it jarring. Some want to watch their character reponse. I don't because I don't think any response matter when you interact with non human but AI. It can never be as realistic as real life interaction. And trying to justify it with cinematic approach only turn the experience into watching movie instead of role-playing.

Not only that, The story told by third person narrator is inapproriate for role-playing. It's perspective mess up with how I view things as the character ingame making it impossible to live the character. 

In short, DA 2 like JRPG is not my cup of tea. The only reason I force myself to wait for DA 3 news is because BioWare already mentioned they will not likely to use this kind of story telling but leave future PC open for feedback. I still hope for future toolset. With toolset, I can make my own character and story. Without toolset I feel as hopeless as Hawke himself. 

[jbrand2002uk]

Oh how a laugh and laugh when people say that the narration in the 3rd person in DA2 is inappropriate when you spend all of DAO playing in the 3rd person and viewing all the cutscenes in the 3rd person just like DA2 but because its the beloved DAO its acceptable oh the double standards of some people.

Oh how i laugh at how the warden who has mastered the art of being able to speak without moving his lips and who's expressions reach the dizzying height of waving his arms about and shrugging his shoulders is believed to have a personality ha ha ha

[Sacred_Fantasy]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

Oh how a laugh and laugh when people say that the narration in the 3rd person in DA2 is inappropriate when you spend all of DAO playing in the 3rd person and viewing all the cutscenes in the 3rd person just like DA2 but because its the beloved DAO its acceptable oh the double standards of some people.

 
So who's the third person narrator in DAO?

jbrand2002uk wrote...
Oh how i laugh at how the warden who has mastered the art of being able to speak without moving his lips and who's expressions reach the dizzying height of waving his arms about and shrugging his shoulders is believed to have a personality ha ha ha

The warden is the only human playable character. Others are nothing but AI that cannot and will not understand you. And Hawke? His smile and speak make him no different than the rest of NPC. 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 23 septembre 2011 - 06:10 .

[Pasquale1234]

Salaya wrote...

Morroian wrote...

...

Hawke isn't a fixed character any more than say a Cousland warden was. I've got 5 Hawke's all quite different in personality.

I never said that Hawke is a fixed character, but a clear progression to that idea. Hawke, wheter you find origins differences important-relevant or not, is less customizable than the warden.

You might not have said that Hawke is a fixed character, but I might venture there.  

No matter how many times you play DA2, Hawke always has exactly the same background and family (although your class choice determines which of your twin siblings survives the flight from Lothering).

Hawke can make some different choices that may result in different outcomes for some of the other NPCs, can choose to romance different NPCs, can be one of three different classes, and can be diplomatic, snarky, or aggressive.  Regardless of any other considerations, every single Hawke will deliver (for example) a specific snarky line in exactly the same way as every other Hawke delivers that same snarky line.  That is not true of the Warden - unless the player chooses to make it so.

[jbrand2002uk]

You dont need a 3rd person narrator to break the immersion the 3rd person perspective does that all ready unless of course we all in real life view ourselves and everything that happens around us from 7ft behind and 2 feet above our own bodies, i know i sure as hell dont have a 24/7 out of body experience but if you do please give me some of what your smoking because it sounds like some real trippy stuff man

[Sacred_Fantasy]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

You dont need a 3rd person narrator to break the immersion the 3rd person perspective does that all ready unless of course we all in real life view ourselves and everything that happens around us from 7ft behind and 2 feet above our own bodies, i know i sure as hell dont have a 24/7 out of body experience but if you do please give me some of what your smoking because it sounds like some real trippy stuff man

First of all, we are playing a role playing game. You assume the role of  a given character. You know what that mean? It mean, you need to  feel, think and act like the character. So how can you do that if you're too busy out of your body all the time watching how cute your character with Anders or Fenris or Isabela etc.. ?

Now speaking about Hawke. If you play the role of Hawke, tell me where were you when Cassandra interrogated Varric? Can you answer that? 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 23 septembre 2011 - 06:41 .

[Zanallen]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

First of all, we are playing a role playing game. You assume the role of  a given character. You know what that mean? It mean, you need to  feel, think and act like the character. So how can you do that if you're too busy out of your body all the time watching how cute your character with Anders or Fenris or Isabela etc.. ?

Now speaking about Hawke. If you play the role of Hawke, tell me where were you when Cassandra interrogated Varric? Can you answer that? 

So, you would prefer the game in a first person perspective? I can roleplay my Hawke just fine. Same with my Warden.

And where was the Warden when Loghain was talking to his advisors? He obviously wasn't in the room with him. Yet we see the scene play out anyway. I see it as an acceptable break in order to further the narrative.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Zanallen wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

First of all, we are playing a role playing game. You assume the role of  a given character. You know what that mean? It mean, you need to  feel, think and act like the character. So how can you do that if you're too busy out of your body all the time watching how cute your character with Anders or Fenris or Isabela etc.. ?

Now speaking about Hawke. If you play the role of Hawke, tell me where were you when Cassandra interrogated Varric? Can you answer that? 

So, you would prefer the game in a first person perspective?

Because we view things in first person perspective?

Zanallen wrote...
And where was the Warden when Loghain was talking to his advisors? He obviously wasn't in the room with him. Yet we see the scene play out anyway. I see it as an acceptable break in order to further the narrative.

The Warden was on his way to Redcliff when that scene play out. We see it because the developer want us to know more detail about the story. That's all. Nothing else and you can ignore it because it doesn't affect your role. 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 23 septembre 2011 - 06:58 .

[MerinTB]

billy the squid wrote...
No, they got critisized because they did a poor job in doing it.

The entire third act was a debacle, best left forgotten. Initially why both the Qunari and the Mage vs Templars were included doesn't make sense, particularly when one could have been focused on in greater detail instead of trying to do both, but not executing it satisfactorily.

Whislt Mage Vs Templars was simply lacked any detail and devolved into A vs B where by the mages are bad, Templars try to kill them. Orsino goes mad and so does Meredith. Thats it?

There was detail on the different factions, in DAO, Libertarians, Isolationists, Loyalists and Antequarians among others within the Circle of Magi, why could this not have been expanded for DA2, the idea itself had potential. For instance in one side quest of DA2 we had Mages and Templars working together. This is good, I could see that going somewhere could I use this as champion of Kirkwall to remove or erode Meredith's position?

Nope, because one mage is a blood mage and comes up with some contrite reason why Hawke must be killed, kills the Templar and the combat starts all over again. I'm left feeling that everything Hawke does is largely pointless and whilst they may have wanted to instill a sense of helplessness in the player regarding the inexorable move towards the conflict, they did a shoddy job doing so. Particularly when one's direct invlovement in the situation does nothing to even mitigate the coming conflict or provide a semblance that some effect can be made between the differing faction of the Templars and Mages, without stopping the conflict itself.

It is that lack of detail and depth with irritates me, it makes it no better that the standard save the world storyline in DAO. Infact it makes it worse if the focus is on Hawke's position within Kirkwall, as I had no investment in them as characters. So I felt rather indifferent, I didn't care what happened to my siblings and playing as Hawke became a chore, with no reason as to why I should be continuing these quests. There were moments particularly some of the companions which I enjoyed, but they were few and far between.

I take a less sympathetic approach to the use of an expansion, particularly as DA2 smacks of a holding pattern, until the next one comes out, to continue the saga which was left hanging, for the simple price of £40. Personally I'd prefer to just let Hawke die as a character, I find him tainted by association. I wouldn't mind the Warden returning, but neither would I begrudge a new character, even one without the multiple origins, so long as they are given depth when they are introduced.

Yes.  I agree very much with this.

I don't want Hawke.  I don't need my Warden back, that's never been a sticking point with me.

But let me MAKE a new character.  Or, at the very least, let me role-play the character you decide to provide me with.

I don't mean to start sounding too much like Sylvius here (he can make his own points quite well) but the game went out of its way to constantly remind me that I didn't get to decide Hawke's personality, choices or anything meaningful outside of class, equipment and love interest.  Hawke kept saying things in cut scenes, or even after I chose my "paraphrase" in a dialog scene, that made me hit my head against the desk.

[Pasquale1234]

Zanallen wrote...

So, you would prefer the game in a first person perspective? I can roleplay my Hawke just fine. Same with my Warden.

There are some scenes that I think could be very interesting to see in first-person perspective.

I would not like to try to do combat or much exploration that way, though - seeing your avatar helps you to keep a better sense of your immediate surroundings, imho.

DAO had quite a few over-the-shoulder types of shots, especially during dialog, that I really prefer over watching Hawke deliver the lines.

And where was the Warden when Loghain was talking to his advisors? He obviously wasn't in the room with him. Yet we see the scene play out anyway. I see it as an acceptable break in order to further the narrative.

I think the term for that may be "dramatic irony" - when the audience (or in this case, the player) knows something that the protagonist does not know.  I agree with your assessment, and am okay with the idea of coming out of role-playing for this purpose.

Modifié par Pasquale1234, 23 septembre 2011 - 07:36 .

[Zanallen]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Because we view things in first person perspective?

I do, yes. I don't see myself talking to people. Not do I see myself when wandering around or as I type this currently. But that doesn't answer my question. Would you prefer if the DA games were in first person?

The Warden was on his way to Redcliff when that scene play out. We see it because the developer want us to know more detail about the story. That's all. Nothing else and you can ignore it because it doesn't affect your role. 

And the next time? There are, I believe, three such scenes with Loghain. Not too mention that the Warden couldn't possibly have seen Cailan's death while he was being overwhelmed in the tower. And nothing Varric says to Cassandra affects Hawke's role. He just sets the scene for us as we move between acts.

[jbrand2002uk]

While i agree combat in 1st person might be tricky i remember Red Steel on the Wii gave me motion sickness i just think cutscenes and any instance when your PC is in a conversation with a companion or other NPC would make more sense role playing wise, while keeping 3rd person perspective for combat( the viewpoint segments in Legacy feel like 1st person at least to me they certainly felt more immersive)

[Morroian]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

No matter how many times you play DA2, Hawke always has exactly the same background and family (although your class choice determines which of your twin siblings survives the flight from Lothering).

So does your warden.

[Pasquale1234]

Morroian wrote...

Pasquale1234 wrote...

No matter how many times you play DA2, Hawke always has exactly the same background and family (although your class choice determines which of your twin siblings survives the flight from Lothering).

So does your warden.