412 réponses à ce sujet

[sponge56]

AdmiralCheez wrote...


A strong, beautiful, ruthlessly intelligent woman is incredibly sexy by default.  You don't need to put her in a skintight jumpsuit to get people to appreciate her.  Let's not cheapen our characters with that sort of thing, hm?

..I want to argue..but..cant..

Ok first of, good post.  Second... umm yeah I agree. BUTTT I don't think it desreves a rage. 

[AdmiralCheez]

slimgrin wrote...

That's most titles. Most games are family freindly, sanitized, ready for kid consumption. Thousands of them. I would also argue there are shades of grey here. Triss Meriigold or Sakura are not blatant sex symbols, like say Ivy from Soul Caliber is. Again, this topic is more nuanced than you are giving it credit for.

F*ck family-friendly, I want a mature game that does this.  And yes, I'm aware that there are shades of gray, but I feel that ME is swinging too far in one direction.  You are totally allowed to feel differently, but like you I have a right to b*tch when I feel like it and I appreciate it when I am heard.

(Triss Merigold is not oversexed lol lol lol.)

You are calling for your own brand of 'proper', and I'm not on board.

Proper?  No.  Sex, violence, and bad language are my three best friends.  But I want that sex, violence, and bad language to have genuine meaning and maturity behind it.  I don't want a tittytastic gorefest with f-bombs thrown in for sh*ts and giggles; I want a war story with gutwrenching emotional gravity, sex and romance that doesn't hide what it is and has genuine tenderness and depth, and for characters to express themselves when they're hurt or pissed off the way real people do.

In short, I want ME3 to be good, as opposed to the typical Hollywoodian tripe.

And BTW, some are Bi in Mass Effect, not Gay. Hardly pushing any boundaries there...

You can roleplay the savior of the galaxy as a gay space marine.  That's huge.

[LGTX]

...we've only seen her in her formal outfit for the trial. Of course she'd dress non-military, hair and all.

[GodWood]

slimgrin wrote...
What's with Street Fighter? Sakura, Mokoto, Ibuki, Karin all look 14-16, and many western viewers don't really get the influence behind their design, so they slap the sexism/kiddie porn tag on them. Which personally I think is a mistake.

So what is the 'correct' way to view this design choice?

LGTX wrote...
...we've only seen her in her formal outfit for the trial. Of course she'd dress non-military, hair and all.

No, this is one of her combat outfits as evidenced by the alternate appearance pack simply being a reskin of this outfit.

Modifié par GodWood, 23 septembre 2011 - 07:43 .

[AdmiralCheez]

sponge56 wrote...

Ok first of, good post.  Second... umm yeah I agree. BUTTT I don't think it desreves a rage. 

Rage on the internet is just that thing I do when I don't want to do my homework. ;3

PS: Thanks for understanding.  It's rare for someone to debate me long enough to actually figure out where I'm coming from.

PPS: Also yes I blow sh*t way the hell out of proportion all the damn time.  It's fun.  You should try it.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 23 septembre 2011 - 07:44 .

[Seagloom]

slimgrin wrote...

Triss Meriigold or Sakura are not blatant sex symbols, like say Ivy from Soul Caliber is.

I gotta disagree with that. Unless one's definition of sex symbol is only encompasses a certain type of character design, I think Sakura was definitely designed to titillate--albeit from a perspective typical in Japanese anime and manga. Several of Sakura's attacks flash her panties; which is standard fare when showing off T&A in those mediums. She is also largely ineffectual as a character. Despite all her drive and ambition to match up to Ryu, she is constantly in need of rescue by him.

Out of all the Street Fighter women, I consider her one of the worst despite wearing more clothing than Cammy or not being anywhere near as blatantly sexual as Juri. I could probably overlook the panty flashing if she had any real agency. She doesn't.

Modifié par Seagloom, 23 septembre 2011 - 07:50 .

[Almostfaceman]

I'm glad they changed her hair, she needed a fresh look. I'm not worried about hair draping in her eyes, since this series of games is obviously not a realistic combat simulator. I go back and forth on Ash, sometimes I'm in the mood for her personality sometimes I'm not. I always appreciate it though - she's got a point of view I can understand even if I don't agree with it.

[slimgrin]

GodWood wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
What's with Street Fighter? Sakura, Mokoto, Ibuki, Karin all look 14-16, and many western viewers don't really get the influence behind their design, so they slap the sexism/kiddie porn tag on them. Which personally I think is a mistake.

So what is the 'correct' way to view this design choice?

With some knowledge on what inspired it, namely Japanese Manga and Anime. I have freinds who think everything Anime is kiddie porn because of the way females are frequently rendered.

But hey, the more you know.

Modifié par slimgrin, 23 septembre 2011 - 08:07 .

[AdmiralCheez]

slimgrin wrote...

With some knowledge on what inspired it, namely Japanese Manga and Anime. I have freinds who think everything Anime is kiddie porn because of the way females are frequently rendered.

But hey, the more you know.

What it really shows is our differing tastes in sexuality as a culture.  Youth is attractive in girls, and androgyny is attractive in boys.  However, since they still suffer from oversexualization and shallow, stereotypical character types as much as we do, they have the same problem.

I probably know a little too much about Japanese culture thanks to a severe bout of "otaku"-ism a few years back.

[Chromie]

slimgrin wrote...

GodWood wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
What's with Street Fighter? Sakura, Mokoto, Ibuki, Karin all look 14-16, and many western viewers don't really get the influence behind their design, so they slap the sexism/kiddie porn tag on them. Which personally I think is a mistake.

So what is the 'correct' way to view this design choice?

With some knowledge on what inspired it, namely Japanese Manga and Anime. I have freinds who think everything Anime is kiddie porn because of the way females are frequently rendered.

But hey, the more you know.

Problem is getting people to stop being so close minded.

[lazuli]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

What it really shows is our differing tastes in sexuality as a culture.  Youth is attractive in girls, and androgyny is attractive in boys.  However, since they still suffer from oversexualization and shallow, stereotypical character types as much as we do, they have the same problem.

I probably know a little too much about Japanese culture thanks to a severe bout of "otaku"-ism a few years back.

Suddenly Final Fantasy protagonists make a lot more sense.

[GodWood]

slimgrin wrote...

GodWood wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
What's with Street Fighter? Sakura, Mokoto, Ibuki, Karin all look 14-16, and many western viewers don't really get the influence behind their design, so they slap the sexism/kiddie porn tag on them. Which personally I think is a mistake.

So what is the 'correct' way to view this design choice?

With some knowledge on what inspired it, namely Japanese Manga and Anime. I have freinds who think everything Anime is kiddie porn because of the way females are frequently rendered.

But hey, the more you know

Is the fact that they're inspired by anime/manga meant to prove that their designs are not purely for fanservice?

[slimgrin]

GodWood wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

GodWood wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
What's with Street Fighter? Sakura, Mokoto, Ibuki, Karin all look 14-16, and many western viewers don't really get the influence behind their design, so they slap the sexism/kiddie porn tag on them. Which personally I think is a mistake.

So what is the 'correct' way to view this design choice?

With some knowledge on what inspired it, namely Japanese Manga and Anime. I have freinds who think everything Anime is kiddie porn because of the way females are frequently rendered.

But hey, the more you know

Is the fact that they're inspired by anime/manga meant to prove that their designs are not purely for fanservice?

I'm saying their individual designs are not purely fanservice.

[GodWood]

Well Mokoto's isn't but the two ditzy school-girls with the frequent panty shots and the chick in the bathing suit are.

Come to think of it the only non-fanservice female street fighter character my sleepless mind can think of is Mokoto.

[AdmiralCheez]

lazuli wrote...

Suddenly Final Fantasy protagonists make a lot more sense.

Oh, but it doesn't stop there.

Behold, visual kei.

They're all men.

[lazuli]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Suddenly Final Fantasy protagonists make a lot more sense.

Oh, but it doesn't stop there.

Behold, visual kei.

They're all men.

To each their own, I guess.  Thanks for providing some perspective on beauty in Japanese pop culture.

[Rinaros]

Speaking of Ashley's hair, Am I the only one who has noticed that her hair is suddenly BROWN instead of her usual BLACK? Or is it simply the bad lighting? (though I dont think its that) I know you probably think it is a small and petty thing to point out, but I just find it kinda odd. Letting her hair down I can understand (I've always been curious as to how she looks with it down), but was it really necessary to alter her hair-color also? Or am I simply missing something here? If anyone knows anything please tell.

"End of Line" - MCP, TRON

[Almostfaceman]

Rinaros wrote...

Speaking of Ashley's hair, Am I the only one who has noticed that her hair is suddenly BROWN instead of her usual BLACK? Or is it simply the bad lighting? (though I dont think its that) I know you probably think it is a small and petty thing to point out, but I just find it kinda odd. Letting her hair down I can understand (I've always been curious as to how she looks with it down), but was it really necessary to alter her hair-color also? Or am I simply missing something here? If anyone knows anything please tell.

"End of Line" - MCP, TRON

Women change their hair color and style - happens all the time. Nothing weird or unusual about it. At all.

[AdmiralCheez]

lazuli wrote...

To each their own, I guess.  Thanks for providing some perspective on beauty in Japanese pop culture.

No problem.  I'd actually be a fan of visual kei if it didn't constantly overlap with vampires.  I can't stand vampires for some reason.

@Rinaros: Yeah, I noticed that, too.  And it kind of bugged me, because she looked good with black hair.  Seems like they had to white her up, too.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 23 septembre 2011 - 09:04 .

[JeffZero]

Neither can I.

[JeffZero]

And that, ladies and turians, is my big, constructive post for this thread.

[LGTX]

GodWood wrote...

LGTX wrote...
...we've only seen her in her formal outfit for the trial. Of course she'd dress non-military, hair and all.

No, this is one of her combat outfits as evidenced by the alternate appearance pack simply being a reskin of this outfit.

That's not an "evidence" of anything. You haven't played the game. The only "evidence" we have as of now (including her announced but not-yet shown armor variant) points to that being her formal attire. 

Collector's Editions can reskin combat armors, or they can reskin casual outfits, or maybe even fingernail colors. 

[Wulfram]

My theory is that it was intended to be her combat outfit, but they reconsidered based on fan reaction.

If it really was intended to be a casual outfit, it's surprisingly close to how medium armour looks in ME1. The gloves and shoulders clearly are armoured, in fact.

[Rinaros]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Rinaros wrote...

Speaking of Ashley's hair, Am I the only one who has noticed that her hair is suddenly BROWN instead of her usual BLACK? Or is it simply the bad lighting? (though I dont think its that) I know you probably think it is a small and petty thing to point out, but I just find it kinda odd. Letting her hair down I can understand (I've always been curious as to how she looks with it down), but was it really necessary to alter her hair-color also? Or am I simply missing something here? If anyone knows anything please tell.

"End of Line" - MCP, TRON

Women change their hair color and style - happens all the time. Nothing weird or unusual about it. At all.

Ofcourse I know that, that wasnt the point I was trying to make. But then again considering they've changed everything else about her then complaining about her hair color is like a broken pencil ("Pointless"). So I'll just shut up about it for now.

Modifié par Rinaros, 23 septembre 2011 - 10:07 .

[ddv.rsa]

GodWood wrote...

No, this is one of her combat outfits as evidenced by the alternate appearance pack simply being a reskin of this outfit.

Perhaps that was the case. Didn't Casey Hudson say she has proper combat armor? Maybe they only made that decision after the backlash over the new outfit.