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David Gaider comments.

Débuté par Sister Goldring , sept. 23 2011 04:03

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#151
Killjoy Cutter
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 05:58

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Gervaise wrote...

How much is Justice/Vengence and how much Anders? He quite contemptuously describes Bethany and other Circle Mages as "dogs who have accepted the leash" whilst he remembers that he "is a wolf". He also reprimands Orsino for his compliance both when we go to see him in the Gallows and at the end of the game. It is almost as if he regards the Circle Mages as collaborators and therefore deserving of death. I thought at one time that towards the end Anders was almost the slave of Justice but he himself denies this and David Gaider seems to confirm it. If anything Justice has become the slave of Anders.


By the end of DA2, I think Anders is well down the path to Old Tevinter, and it certainly sheds a new light on his character going back to Awakening.  Perhaps not so much of an innocent victim of the Templars and Circle after all. 

#152
Killjoy Cutter
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 06:00

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Persephone wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

ghostbusters101 wrote...

Merrill was just too naïve. She was the only one I did the 100% rivalry relationship. She did grow up in the end, but only after the poor old lady died.



You mean the Keeper, who got herself killed by doing something stupid... after the Pride demon convinced her that only she could save Merrill? 


That's not what happened at all......:huh:


Maybe you played a different game, because in DA2 that's EXACTLY how it went down. 


No. I beat it over 10 times and that definitely NEVER happened. And that's actually a fave quest of mine.<_<


Keeper:  "You can't possibly control or defeat the demon, Merrill, but I could contain it and save you.  You were lied to by the demon Merrill, but I know it told me the truth about its plans for you."   Etc. 

#153
Persephone
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 06:00

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Gervaise wrote...

How much is Justice/Vengence and how much Anders? He quite contemptuously describes Bethany and other Circle Mages as "dogs who have accepted the leash" whilst he remembers that he "is a wolf". He also reprimands Orsino for his compliance both when we go to see him in the Gallows and at the end of the game. It is almost as if he regards the Circle Mages as collaborators and therefore deserving of death. I thought at one time that towards the end Anders was almost the slave of Justice but he himself denies this and David Gaider seems to confirm it. If anything Justice has become the slave of Anders.


By the end of DA2, I think Anders is well down the path to Old Tevinter, and it certainly sheds a new light on his character going back to Awakening.  Perhaps not so much of an innocent victim of the Templars and Circle after all. 


Interesting, yup. Given the insanely huge amount of foreshadowing re: Anders & Justice in Awakening. Replaying Awakening, I was completely shocked just how much the merge was foreshadowed. (Esp. in conversations between Justice, Anders and Nathaniel)

#154
Persephone
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 06:01

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

ghostbusters101 wrote...

Merrill was just too naïve. She was the only one I did the 100% rivalry relationship. She did grow up in the end, but only after the poor old lady died.



You mean the Keeper, who got herself killed by doing something stupid... after the Pride demon convinced her that only she could save Merrill? 


That's not what happened at all......:huh:


Maybe you played a different game, because in DA2 that's EXACTLY how it went down. 


No. I beat it over 10 times and that definitely NEVER happened. And that's actually a fave quest of mine.<_<


Keeper:  "You can't possibly control or defeat the demon, Merrill, but I could contain it and save you.  You were lied to by the demon Merrill, but I know it told me the truth about its plans for you."   Etc. 



And that's not what Marethari says either.

#155
Killjoy Cutter
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 06:03

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Persephone wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

ghostbusters101 wrote...

Merrill was just too naïve. She was the only one I did the 100% rivalry relationship. She did grow up in the end, but only after the poor old lady died.


You mean the Keeper, who got herself killed by doing something stupid... after the Pride demon convinced her that only she could save Merrill? 


That's not what happened at all......:huh:


Maybe you played a different game, because in DA2 that's EXACTLY how it went down. 


No. I beat it over 10 times and that definitely NEVER happened. And that's actually a fave quest of mine.<_<


Keeper:  "You can't possibly control or defeat the demon, Merrill, but I could contain it and save you.  You were lied to by the demon Merrill, but I know it told me the truth about its plans for you."   Etc. 


And that's not what Marethari says either.


That is exactly what she says, if you bother to actually stop and think about what comes out of her mouth, instead of just assuming that's she the wise old woman who knows everything and that Merrill is clueless and helpless. 


Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 07 octobre 2011 - 06:08 .

#156
RagingCyclone
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 06:05

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@Killjoy Cutter---She may say that, but also that to destroy the demon you have to kill her, or are you conveniently forgetting that part?

#157
Mr.House
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 06:06

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She does not say that at all, the dialog is different, unless me and Perse have different versions.

#158
Persephone
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 06:08

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Mr.House wrote...

She does not say that at all, the dialog is different, unless me and Perse have different versions.


The dialogue IS different. A large chunk is missing for one and the supposed quote isn't quoted correctly at all.

#159
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 06:09

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I'm not sure about the exact paraphrasing but there is a narrative one can derive from the situation that says Marethari is the fool and it's not Merrill's fault at all, yes.

Modifié par Filament, 07 octobre 2011 - 06:09 .

#160
Killjoy Cutter
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 06:10

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RagingCyclone wrote...

@Killjoy Cutter---She may say that, but also that to destroy the demon you have to kill her, or are you conveniently forgetting that part?


No.  Watch how that fight ends. 

#161
Mr.House
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 06:11

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Filament wrote...

I'm not sure about the exact paraphrasing but there is a narrative one can derive from the situation that says Marethari is the fool and it's not Merrill's fault at all, yes.

That's after the Keeper is dead and Hawke can say that. Not the Keeper to Merrill.

#162
Mr.House
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 06:13

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

RagingCyclone wrote...

@Killjoy Cutter---She may say that, but also that to destroy the demon you have to kill her, or are you conveniently forgetting that part?


No.  Watch how that fight ends. 

Uh the demon is still alive, when Merrill stabs the possessed Keeper, the demon dies and thus the Keeper also dies. Replay the game.

#163
Yrkoon
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 06:13

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Mr.House wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

^Completionists.

No.

Prove otherwise.

#164
RagingCyclone
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 06:13

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At the beginning before the fight (played this 6 times) when you are actually talking to Marethari (the end is the demon, not her) she states she went up to confront the demon, but she was not strong enough to defeat it or drive it back into the fade. The only option she had left to contain the demon was to take it into herself, and it was up to Merrill or Hawke to destroy the demon, but the only way is to kill her in the process.

Modifié par RagingCyclone, 07 octobre 2011 - 06:14 .

#165
Persephone
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 06:14

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

RagingCyclone wrote...

@Killjoy Cutter---She may say that, but also that to destroy the demon you have to kill her, or are you conveniently forgetting that part?


No.  Watch how that fight ends. 


IF you choose to FORGET what Marethari actually told you. YOUR fault, not hers. (Never did that, because I knew that killing her was necessary)

#166
Persephone
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 06:15

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Yrkoon wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

^Completionists.

No.

Prove otherwise.


Seriously? You make an assumption and then ask for PROOF? That's some....gall.;)

#167
Killjoy Cutter
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 06:15

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Filament wrote...

I'm not sure about the exact paraphrasing but there is a narrative one can derive from the situation that says Marethari is the fool and it's not Merrill's fault at all, yes.


The pride demon played on Merethari's beliefs and fears and prejudices perfectly. 

(Gotta love Anders' massive hypocrit moment if he's along, BTW.)

#168
Killjoy Cutter
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 06:17

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Mr.House wrote...

Filament wrote...

I'm not sure about the exact paraphrasing but there is a narrative one can derive from the situation that says Marethari is the fool and it's not Merrill's fault at all, yes.

That's after the Keeper is dead and Hawke can say that. Not the Keeper to Merrill.


Derive from the situation, not based on what Merethari claims to be true. 

#169
Persephone
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 06:18

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Filament wrote...

I'm not sure about the exact paraphrasing but there is a narrative one can derive from the situation that says Marethari is the fool and it's not Merrill's fault at all, yes.


The pride demon played on Merethari's beliefs and fears and prejudices perfectly. 

(Gotta love Anders' massive hypocrit moment if he's along, BTW.)


Worked on you too, the playing on, I mean. Given that you fell for its lie when it tries to convince you that it is dead.:)

And that demon IN Merrill? Dear Lord, no!!! Blood mage AND possessed? What a great...idea.:lol:

#170
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 06:19

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Mr.House wrote...

Filament wrote...

I'm not sure about the exact paraphrasing but there is a narrative one can derive from the situation that says Marethari is the fool and it's not Merrill's fault at all, yes.

That's after the Keeper is dead and Hawke can say that. Not the Keeper to Merrill.

I'm not talking about what anyone said in-game, I'm saying some people look at the situation and think Marethari was a fool for accepting an ostensibly trapped pride demon into herself based on its word that it wasn't so trapped and was going to go through Merrill's mirror and possess her instead. Playing off Marethari's pride that she knows what's better for Merrill and it's up to her to protect Merrill.

#171
Mr.House
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 06:19

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Merrill is possessed? What?

#172
Persephone
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 06:19

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Filament wrote...

I'm not sure about the exact paraphrasing but there is a narrative one can derive from the situation that says Marethari is the fool and it's not Merrill's fault at all, yes.

That's after the Keeper is dead and Hawke can say that. Not the Keeper to Merrill.


Derive from the situation, not based on what Merethari claims to be true. 


So Merrill unchaining that demon would have been smarter how? 

#173
Persephone
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 06:20

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Mr.House wrote...

Merrill is possessed? What?


No, no. Just saying that Marethari's solution is preferable to a blood mage like Merrill playing vessel to a pride demon.

#174
Master Shiori
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 06:21

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Filament wrote...

I'm not sure about the exact paraphrasing but there is a narrative one can derive from the situation that says Marethari is the fool and it's not Merrill's fault at all, yes.

That's after the Keeper is dead and Hawke can say that. Not the Keeper to Merrill.


Derive from the situation, not based on what Merethari claims to be true. 


Except what she claims happens to be true.

#175
Killjoy Cutter
Posté 07 octobre 2011 - 06:22

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Persephone wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

RagingCyclone wrote...

@Killjoy Cutter---She may say that, but also that to destroy the demon you have to kill her, or are you conveniently forgetting that part?


No.  Watch how that fight ends. 


IF you choose to FORGET what Marethari actually told you. YOUR fault, not hers. (Never did that, because I knew that killing her was necessary)


Everything Merethari says in that cave must be taken in light of the fact that she is possessed by the demon, and thus taken with a hefty grain of salt.  I find it hilareous that so many people take what a possessed Merethari says as the literal truth of the matter.  

First, the demon fights to survive, easily taking complete control of Merethari to do so.
Then, when beaten, the demon tries appeal to what it imagines to be Merrill's pride to trick its way out of the situation.

(I've always chosen the option for Hawke to say "but you told us you had to die".) 
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