65 réponses à ce sujet

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I've been curious about what exactly their opinion on mages is because I feel like we've been given a bit of contradictory information. Given how the Qunari treat mages and what most Qunari we've talked to say the obvious answer would seem to be yes. And considering Saarebas translates to "dangerous thing" that would imply they do as well. Sten and Arvaraad certianly seemed to have a personal antipathy towards mages for example.

But wasn't it said somewhere that the Qunari supposedly "pitied and honored the Saarebas" during one the of the earlier Qunari info reveals before the game came out? In addition, Sten's quotations from the Qun regarding mages sounds like it's an analogy that pities them. But I think David Gaider (or someone) said that the Qunari keep mages around for the same reason that one would keep a poisonous snake around, ie for antivenom. Now a snake is not something I would imagine they'd pity and honor. So which is supposed to be the case? I intially suspected maybe the ideal in the Qun was to pity and honor them, but that most Qunari don't quite live up to it. Arvaraad didn't seem to and the Arishok seemed like maybe he might respect Ketojen more but still seemed to be oddly pleased about his death. I can see either one being the case: after all, considering the Qunari seem to value order above all, it's easy to see why they'd hate mages for being individuals who could create chaos; but it is not their fault that they are saarebas either so they could still pity them for their role in the Qun while hating what they could do. I just am not sue which one was actually supposed to be the implication in the games' lore.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 23 septembre 2011 - 09:43 .

[Heimdall]

They see mages as unfortunate, but a danger.

[filetemo]

How do Arvaraads neutralize mages? Do they have templar like powers?

[Heimdall]

No idea, the Shepherding Wolves quest made it look like he had some sort of enchanted item that acted as a leash.

[thats1evildude]

To the qunari, nothing is more important than self-control. The saarebas may have control of the self taken away by demons. Thus, they are honoured, pitied, feared and despised, all at the same time.

[Mr.House]

Hate and fear are two different things.

[dreadpiratesnugglecakes]

Looks like Anders will have his work cut out for him. Now, for Anders to kill all of those who don't approve of mages among the Qunari, it's going to be a bit tricky. Qunari society seems to be tiered; everybody has a specific role. So, the disdain they have for mages will be widespread. Now, following the logic of Anders (killing innocent people peripheral to the actual problem in order to create a bigger problem), he'll probably need to kill..well, all of them. Going to be a hard sell just wiping out a group of people because they don't like mages. Well, they could just put the word 'church' after Qunari. Apparently it's ok for Anders to kill anyone if they are part of a 'church'. Wow, did I just set the stage for DA4? Dragon Age 4: Ander's Revenge (or Killing People who disagree with me is perfectly ok). Seems to be a popular concept with a lot of people in this forum.

[thats1evildude]

Mr.House wrote...

Hate and fear are two different things.

Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 23 septembre 2011 - 09:36 .

[Tainan7509]

thats1evildude wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Hate and fear are two different things.

Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.

You are talking about Star War, aren't you.<_<

[Ianamus]

They don't hate mages, they pity them.

[addiction21]

thats1evildude wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Hate and fear are two different things.

Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.

And then theres waffles!!

Lord Aesir wrote...

They see mages as unfortunate, but a danger.

I would add they also seem them tools.

[Heimdall]

addiction21 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

They see mages as unfortunate, but a danger.

I would add they also seem them tools.

Amended:

They see mages as unfortunate and potentially useful, but a great danger.

[TEWR]

They don't hate mages themselves. They actually honor and pity the mages for striving to be what it means to be a Qunari with the constant threat of losing themselves looming over them.

What they hate is how magic disrupts their idea of order. Sadly, there is no order in the world because nature and the world are chaotic.

[addiction21]

Lord Aesir wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

They see mages as unfortunate, but a danger.

I would add they also seem them tools.

Amended:

They see mages as unfortunate and potentially useful, but a great danger.

A tool Its just the impression those followers of The Qun give me. Not starting a fight im just mouthy tonight.

Like most everyone else has said they dont hate them. Maybe pity them but see their use. See their role withing The Qun but they have been more or less relegated to tools to be used. More so then the rest.

[blothulfur]

Those saarebas who submit to be leashed for the good of all are honoured for their self sacrifice and held up as an example of what it is to be qunari, selfless in the face of adversity.

The selfish unleashed are a danger to the people, utilitarianism demands that the majority be protected from this minority.

[Quething]

Yeah, what a society says it believes about a group within it is not necessarily particularly related to the way most individuals within that society actually believe. Based on all evidence presented in the games, I'd say that Quanri like to tell themselves they respect and pity mages, but in fact that "respect and pity" manifests in their daily attitudes and behaviors as hatred and contempt.

Much like, for example, the templars are theoretically supposed to "protect" mages and magic is supposed to "serve" man in most Andrastean nations, and yet this philosophy actually manifests as abuse and suppression, or how the magisters are "serving" their society through leadership but in fact actually exploiting the less powerful.

[Herr Uhl]

addiction21 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

They see mages as unfortunate, but a danger.

I would add they also seem them tools.

They see everyone as tools.

[TEWR]

Herr Uhl wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

They see mages as unfortunate, but a danger.

I would add they also seem them tools.

They see everyone as tools.

Now I want a Qunari Kossith to just say "You're a tool."

[Foolsfolly]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

They don't hate mages themselves. They actually honor and pity the mages for striving to be what it means to be a Qunari with the constant threat of losing themselves looming over them.

What they hate is how magic disrupts their idea of order. Sadly, there is no order in the world because nature and the world are chaotic.

I so want a game that focuses more on the Qunari. Their idea of perfection and order contrasted by the chaos of a largely indifferent world. Idealism vs Pragmatism.

Loads of story, irony, and conflict potential with the qunari.

Modifié par Foolsfolly, 24 septembre 2011 - 04:26 .

[Gervaise]

This Qunari attitude to mages and how they deal with them is quite interesting. It would seem they pity and admire them when they conform to the demands of the Qun because of the suffering they have to endure on a daily basis to overcome the dangers of demons. They also fear them, so collar them and sew up their mouths. Clearly their experience of mages is that they are easily subject to possession unless the mind is disciplined to resist. Also when a mage falls prey to a demon, they are instantly neutralised, first by paralysing them with what appears to be a sort of taiser gun and then killing them.
Now as I understand it, the Qun do nothing without reason - it is observation that has led them to do these things. Without condoning their actions in any way, it would appear to be broadly in line with the Chantry's attitude to magic. Mages are dangerous and need containing in some way to protect the rest of the populace and also need constant supervision and education to protect them from themselves. So have both these institutions got it wrong about mages - bearing in mind that there is no Maker inspired religious fervour behind the qunari thinking?
The other thing is that we encounter a number of sarabas in DA2 and not only do they actually seem to have quite effective magical power but not one of them ever explodes into an abomination, even though in some cases we have already killed their leash holder. By contrast we seem to be constantly coming across other mages who go poof when threatened. The regular excuse Anders advances for their conduct is that they are desperate but are the sarabas never desperate? So does the qunari discipline give some sort of protection against possession or is it that they have never indulged in blood magic that gives them greater resistance?

[jbrand2002uk]

Well I'd hazzard a guess that the Serrebaas are feared because of their potential to cause chaos hence upsetting the Order that the Qun prizes so highly and most likely keep themn around despite their fear of them because the Qunari's most frequent foe is the Tevinter Imperium or whats left of it which is dominated by magic and mages who can nullify the Qunari's technological superiority and what better way to counter one mage than with another mage.

So i guess the Qunari fear the Serrabaas's potential but see them as the lesser of 2 evils

[Wulfram]

Arvaraad and Sten don't come off like they "honour" mages

"I misspoke. They are not beasts. Beasts learn, eventually."

[CrimsonZephyr]

Wulfram wrote...

Arvaraad and Sten don't come off like they "honour" mages

"I misspoke. They are not beasts. Beasts learn, eventually."

Keep in mind that they have a very different idea of what "honorable" is.

[jamesp81]

I don't think hate is the right word. They do fear them, and frankly, abuse them.

[labargegrrrl]

the qunari are complete monsters to mages. but i will give them one cookie for this: they don't practice the rite of tranquility. or, at least, it doesn't seem like they do.