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[Jedi Master of Orion]

If the Dales had converted to the worship of the Maker that doesn't mean they'd submit to Orleasian rule. Every human nation in Thedas except Rivain is Andrastian, none of them are under Orleasian rule anymore and even those nations who willing joined the Empire didn't stay under the rule of Orlais for long. Alienages are a holdover from the Exalted March on the Dales anyway, all human nations are racist but it doesn't really have anything to do with the Chantry anymore. Neither the Chant of Light nor the institution has anything inherently anti-elf about it, but alienages exist because they human nations' way of dealing with elves, they wouldn't exist in an elf ruled nation.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 26 septembre 2011 - 06:46 .

[Sir JK]

Jedi, the Alienages is just as much an elven construct. It is they that maintain their seclusion and isolation from humanity. Not unlikely to retain some of their culture. Elves are allowed to live outside of them (this naturally varies from city to city, but as a rule), there's no law ordering them to live in the alienages. Soris, leaves the alienage to start a family with a human woman in the docks. Fenris lives in the kirkwall noble quarter. While human racism certainly helps and that elves as a rule live in great poverty (except, if Leliana's perspective is correct, in Orlais), it is the elves themselves that maintain their isolation by shunning any elf that volountarily leaves the alienages.
If they are forced to live in the alienage it's primarily due to economic reasons and not due to law.

The humans might have laid the groundwork for it, but the elves are just as big a factor in retaining them as the humans are. And if humanity wanted to crush elven culture... they wouldn't have allowed the elves to live together.

Modifié par Sir JK, 26 septembre 2011 - 07:25 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

That is true. But I'd still think in a nation that was ruled by elves they wouldn't exist, whether it was an andrastian nation or not.

[Foolsfolly]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

One country gets attacked, the other country refuses to help. After the war the first country is pissed and starts border skirmishes, second country reacts and invades the first. First country calls for help and the second country gets beaten by the first country and their allies.

Sounds like the usual medieval pastime in my opinion. No need to interpret things into it. *shrug*

What I can't really get behind is that the elves of the Dales would be so stupid as to say "You deal with your Blight and your Darkspawn. We don't care". It's a Blight. They should care, because if Orlais falls the Dales will too.

Of course, elven pride probably thought "Well our hunters are the bestest warriors ever!"

While it would be incredibly stupid to ignore a Blight.... The Hero of Ferelden can tell any of us how much people care about Blights. Nearly everyone we went to for aid said something along the lines of "I can't help yet" or "It's not my problem."

I can see racial and religious tensions getting the best of reason and the Dales not marching against the Blight.

But if that doesn't seem interesting (it isn't but it's ancient history) then perhaps the Dales were suffering from some mysterious and terrible inner-turmoils and they could not aid. Who knows? We'll likely never know for sure since it is ancient history.

[TEWR]

Foolsfolly wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

One country gets attacked, the other country refuses to help. After the war the first country is pissed and starts border skirmishes, second country reacts and invades the first. First country calls for help and the second country gets beaten by the first country and their allies.

Sounds like the usual medieval pastime in my opinion. No need to interpret things into it. *shrug*

What I can't really get behind is that the elves of the Dales would be so stupid as to say "You deal with your Blight and your Darkspawn. We don't care". It's a Blight. They should care, because if Orlais falls the Dales will too.

Of course, elven pride probably thought "Well our hunters are the bestest warriors ever!"

While it would be incredibly stupid to ignore a Blight.... The Hero of Ferelden can tell any of us how much people care about Blights. Nearly everyone we went to for aid said something along the lines of "I can't help yet" or "It's not my problem."

I can see racial and religious tensions getting the best of reason and the Dales not marching against the Blight.

But if that doesn't seem interesting (it isn't but it's ancient history) then perhaps the Dales were suffering from some mysterious and terrible inner-turmoils and they could not aid. Who knows? We'll likely never know for sure since it is ancient history.

That might be interesting, though I don't really see what they could be going through that would cause such inner turmoil. Perhaps a faction of extremists that wanted to wage war on humanity so as to retake all of Thedas that they lost when Arlathan fell?

...which could play into the actual downfall of the Dales.

[TobiTobsen]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

They were in the middle of a war with the Qunari. Not that I'm condoning slaughtering the Vidathaari but, it wasn't like they happened upon a peaceful village and then decided to wipe out the inhabitants for not believing in the Maker. They were treated as enemy civilians. Yes, the Chantry used violence but every major power in history also used to violence. It's like saying "It's not a question of if people will use violence but when they will" when looking at the general history of Thedas. That's just how people are. I'd have expected mostly the same thing would have happened of the Chantry had not been organizing the counter offensives. None of the Chantry's Exalted Marches were called for the single purpose of simply converting people to worship of the Maker and nothing else. The Exalted March on the Dales was intervening in a war that already existed between Orlais and the Dales and the Exalted March on the Qunari were called to regain lost territory from invaders.

The way they forced the Qunari to withdrawl was cruel, but I was talking about their actions after the Qunari left. There was no war anymore. Just the people of northern Rivain who didn't want to convert back to the chantry. Even Sister Petrice, a scholar of the chantry, calls it a religious purge.

[EmperorSahlertz]

It wasn't because they didn't want to convert, it was because they didn't leave. They were obligated by the Llomerryn Accord to leave their homes in Northern Rivain, and return to Qunari controlled lands. When they didn't, they could etiher convert or be considered enemies.

[TobiTobsen]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

It wasn't because they didn't want to convert, it was because they didn't leave. They were obligated by the Llomerryn Accord to leave their homes in Northern Rivain, and return to Qunari controlled lands. When they didn't, they could etiher convert or be considered enemies.

Since Sisters Pretrine says that the Chantry and the Kingdom of Rivain broke the Accord with their purge, just as the Qunari of Northern Rivain broke it when they refused to leave, so it's obviously not their right to slaughter everyone who didn't want to leave and/or convert.

Modifié par TobiTobsen, 26 septembre 2011 - 10:10 .

[Wulfram]

Sister Petrine wrote the codex entry on the Llomerryn Accords, not Petrice. Thanks for the distinctive names, Bioware.

In practical terms, allowing Qunari to remain means allowing the Qunari to be the De Facto rulers of northern Rivain. Qunari's loyalty will always be to the Qun, not to the Bas' government.

[TobiTobsen]

Wulfram wrote...

Sister Petrine wrote the codex entry on the Llomerryn Accords, not Petrice. Thanks for the distinctive names, Bioware.

Ah crap. Mixed up those two.

Would be funny if Petrice had written something like the codex entry about the Accord, before going all holy crusader