205 réponses à ce sujet

[Foolsfolly]

And about Mage combat.

Could the staff spinning be toned down a bit? Yeah. But they shouldn't get rid of it completely. The boring 'slightly raise the staff to fire magic bolt' attack from Origins wasn't exactly something you'd write home about. And I love the melee attacks for up-close combat with a staff. It makes sense, you have a large stick.

It's just about finding a balance. But even if they don't touch Mage combat animations at all for the next game I'm not going to sweat it. It looks fine.

Also you can't have "realistic mage combat" that center word kinda ****s all over it being realistic. We can't look at a real life mage and ask him how he attacks. It's all subjective.

[Satyricon331]

I thought the combat animations were silly. It was an improvement to have the animations connect, but other than that it was so OTT. The mages looked like they were channeling mana inward to become ninjas (which might have been fine as an alternate branch on the Arcane Warrior tree...), which is to say their moves *were* unrealistic (or rather, lacked verisimilitude) since they admitted no explanation other than magic, which the game was telling you wasn't happening as they weren't channelling inward. And then there are the rogues...

All of which would have been fine for me but for the game trying to be so serious in other respects (so many life-and-death choices, etc). The animations would have fit a lighter, more kid-oriented setting better imo.

[Uccio]

The point for need to have slower combat is that DA2 combat is just over-the-top flashy and totally unbelievable. Though its just a game there is a limit of how much non-realism the battle can have before it becomes anime-ninja-woosh one. I have allways preferred Origins over DA2 for its "realism" in combat. You want speed? Ok, just turn Origins model two levels up. Problem solved. Just watch TW2 combat, fast but still believable. Moves which can actually be performed by physically normal persons.

As for the mages, the same applies there too. If I would be a Mage in combat I would certainly not tire myself out but dancing around with the staff, not even to impress the girls. Close combat with staff waving comes when the enemy is at close range, before that it just is too dumb.

Modifié par Ukki, 25 septembre 2011 - 11:09 .

[Aradace]

As long as it's not toned down to the point of the snail paced combat of Origins I dont care what they do with it. Origins paced combat for the next DA game is just out right unacceptable.

[KLUME777]

I want to get rid of the ninja animations. Like the backstab one where the rogue literally apparates into the ground and appears behind the target - whatever happened to teleportation not possible in the DA universe?

DAO's combat was realistic and believable, its universe was believable - in other words, DAO obeyed the laws of physics for the most part. But not in DA2.

inb4 elves, dwarves and magic being realistic.

[DKJaigen]

Ukki wrote...


The point for need to have slower combat is that DA2 combat is just over-the-top flashy and totally unbelievable. Though its just a game there is a limit of how much non-realism the battle can have before it becomes anime-ninja-woosh one. I have allways preferred Origins over DA2 for its "realism" in combat. You want speed? Ok, just turn Origins model two levels up. Problem solved. Just watch TW2 combat, fast but still believable. Moves which can actually be performed by physically normal persons.

As for the mages, the same applies there too. If I would be a Mage in combat I would certainly not tire myself out but dancing around with the staff, not even to impress the girls. Close combat with staff waving comes when the enemy is at close range, before that it just is too dumb.

Fighting as slowly in DA  in the medieval times  would result in your dead. DA2 is far more believable then DA1
And the witcher is just as fast.

[PinkShoes]

i really do prefer the DA2 fighting style. First of the mage omg the mage in DAO was just so boring to play when you ran out of spells! it was just sooo boring! I just couldnt play a supportive mage in DAO but when i did in DA2 i reallly did enjoy it.

And also Rogue loved it. a bow now just feels so damn powerful like it should i wanna feel like you are hurting someone! and honestly the daggers are amazing my rogue is in and out in seconds i actually feel like my rogue is someone you would fear on the battle field because in seconds they could be behind you and when you turn they are at your back again.

Now the warrior i felt lacked a lot. It didnt feel powerful until i got my two handed warrior up to around 16+ they do not feel powerful anymore. Also must agree the shield bash is better in DA2

DA2 and DAO both have faults they i feel that both werent very responsive and so glad the finishing moves are out. Im fighting orges, all my party is on half health and need me and im busy jumping up in the air in slow mo to do something fancy? No. I kill the orge and jump right back into battle as quickly as possible

[Sabariel]

The animation that always kills me is when a Rogue throws a flask/bomb into the air then roundhouse kicks it into a group of enemies. You couldn't just say... throw the flask into the group of enemies instead of up in the air? [/slighty OT]

[jbrand2002uk]

Ukki is DAO Hardcore so wont be satisfied with anything other than a return to the unrealistic mess that was Origins combat i have played enough combat games to know Origins conbat is about as far from realisim as you can get,Ukki's suggestion of keeping Origins combat mechanic but cranking the speed up 2 notches would not fix all the flaws with DAO's combat which goes way beyond speed.

I suspect its simply that his brain is incapable of working fast enough to keep up and he's just angry that his beloved DAO format was changed without his permission which apparently BW had to ask for ( yeah right whatever) he is not alone in that attitude, I for one certainly am not in that camp .

Being unable to handle the change in pace doesn't make it bad it just means your too slow, if a Veteran RPG gamer like me who's played old skool RPg's since the 80's can manage and adapt my play style to the point where I enjoy the game than so can you but alas he's just to lazy to try.
When someone like Ukki loves DAO as much as he does trying to reason with him is a lost cause as they cant see the bigger picture.

[Uccio]

DKJaigen wrote...

Ukki wrote...


The point for need to have slower combat is that DA2 combat is just over-the-top flashy and totally unbelievable. Though its just a game there is a limit of how much non-realism the battle can have before it becomes anime-ninja-woosh one. I have allways preferred Origins over DA2 for its "realism" in combat. You want speed? Ok, just turn Origins model two levels up. Problem solved. Just watch TW2 combat, fast but still believable. Moves which can actually be performed by physically normal persons.

As for the mages, the same applies there too. If I would be a Mage in combat I would certainly not tire myself out but dancing around with the staff, not even to impress the girls. Close combat with staff waving comes when the enemy is at close range, before that it just is too dumb.

Fighting as slowly in DA  in the medieval times  would result in your dead. DA2 is far more believable then DA1
And the witcher is just as fast.

Have you ever tried to swordplay with a two-handed or broadsword? Or do that in full plate armor? I can tell you that no real person can back-flip in plate armor nor swing two handed sword like it would be made out of cardboard (like fenris or templars in DA2). I have few medieval swords modeled and produced like originals and I can tell you that swinging one of those babies for even 15 minutes will be a good test of endurance, and that is without armor.

Modifié par Ukki, 25 septembre 2011 - 12:03 .

[alex90c]

I think everyone agrees that the mage animations in DA:O were ... lacking. But I still stand by my opinion that warriors swinging 6ft long swords like toothpicks, and rogues jumping around like some ADD retard isn't even remotely fun or "cool".

[Uccio]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

Ukki is DAO Hardcore so wont be satisfied with anything other than a return to the unrealistic mess that was Origins combat i have played enough combat games to know Origins conbat is about as far from realisim as you can get,Ukki's suggestion of keeping Origins combat mechanic but cranking the speed up 2 notches would not fix all the flaws with DAO's combat which goes way beyond speed.

I suspect its simply that his brain is incapable of working fast enough to keep up and he's just angry that his beloved DAO format was changed without his permission which apparently BW had to ask for ( yeah right whatever) he is not alone in that attitude, I for one certainly am not in that camp .

Being unable to handle the change in pace doesn't make it bad it just means your too slow, if a Veteran RPG gamer like me who's played old skool RPg's since the 80's can manage and adapt my play style to the point where I enjoy the game than so can you but alas he's just to lazy to try.
When someone like Ukki loves DAO as much as he does trying to reason with him is a lost cause as they cant see the bigger picture.

So you are seriously suggesting that DA2 combat mechanics are more real than DAO? In what universe?

[jbrand2002uk]

Actually in DA2 only the Rogues and Assassins backflip and they dont wear full plate armour the Templar Assassins wear a special light issue variant of the Templar armour which may look like the regular armour but is made from lighter materials and likely only has partial chainmail underneath or no chainmail at all and most of the other organizations rogues dont wear full plate armour at all.

The Warriors sure as hell dont backflip either.

[alex90c]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

Actually in DA2 only the Rogues and Assassins backflip and they dont wear full plate armour the Templar Assassins wear a special light issue variant of the Templar armour which may look like the regular armour but is made from lighter materials and likely only has partial chainmail underneath or no chainmail at all and most of the other organizations rogues dont wear full plate armour at all.

The Warriors sure as hell dont backflip either.

Actually, Templar Hunters wear the same armour as the Lieutenants do, which funnily enough is actually armour only warrior Hawke can use.

Even then, ignoring the fact that it's heavy armour, how the hell is it believable that they can backflip while wearing a skirt without tripping over themselves?

[jbrand2002uk]

Ukki your forgetting how DA2's story is being told ? Its being recounted to Cassandra by Varric, now while what he tells Cassandra is likely closer to the truth than what he has told others he likes to have his stories seasoned liberally with wild falsehoods remember, you as the player are simply acting out what Varric is telling Cassandra.

I also have worn full plate armour with chainmail and used to often take part in battle recreations yes its heavy but once you adapt and condition your body to it you'd be suprised at just how agile and fast you can be even with a sword and as most swords carry their weight in the whole blade or the tip of the blade you dont need to use a lot of muscle for a powerful swing as the momentum caused by the blade's weight does most of the work for you.

[jbrand2002uk]

alex have you ever seen an Icini warrior(thats scottish by the way) and being of a scottish family that can trace it roots back to before the roman occupation i have the full family regaila which includes a kilt sporran and a family claymore( two handed broadsword) and i can tell you its perfectly possible to backflip in a kilt without tripping over if you mind your crown jewels being on show for a brief second during the backflip

[DKJaigen]

Ukki wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Ukki wrote...


The point for need to have slower combat is that DA2 combat is just over-the-top flashy and totally unbelievable. Though its just a game there is a limit of how much non-realism the battle can have before it becomes anime-ninja-woosh one. I have allways preferred Origins over DA2 for its "realism" in combat. You want speed? Ok, just turn Origins model two levels up. Problem solved. Just watch TW2 combat, fast but still believable. Moves which can actually be performed by physically normal persons.

As for the mages, the same applies there too. If I would be a Mage in combat I would certainly not tire myself out but dancing around with the staff, not even to impress the girls. Close combat with staff waving comes when the enemy is at close range, before that it just is too dumb.

Fighting as slowly in DA  in the medieval times  would result in your dead. DA2 is far more believable then DA1
And the witcher is just as fast.

Have you ever tried to swordplay with a two-handed or broadsword? Or do that in full plate armor? I can tell you that no real person can back-flip in plate armor nor swing two handed sword like it would be made out of cardboard (like fenris or templars in DA2). I have few medieval swords modeled and produced like originals and I can tell you that swinging one of those babies for even 15 minutes will be a good test of endurance, and that is without armor.

Your wrong on all accounts. I have a zweihander myself and i can swing it as fast as a cardboard. And you can do handstands and backflips in late style full plate armor.

[Aradace]

KLUME777 wrote...

I want to get rid of the ninja animations. Like the backstab one where the rogue literally apparates into the ground and appears behind the target - whatever happened to teleportation not possible in the DA universe?

DAO's combat was realistic and believable, its universe was believable - in other words, DAO obeyed the laws of physics for the most part. But not in DA2.

inb4 elves, dwarves and magic being realistic.

Right, because shuffling into place to initiate combat is realistic?  Not saying DA2 isnt as guilty in some aspects but to claim that Origins' combat engine was somehow "superior" is a bit of a wild stretch.  Sorry, but the time it takes your "IRL" to "shuffle" to me, I've already struck you several times in real time.  In some (and others will argue many) cases, DA2's combat was at times "over the top".  But again, Origins combat was just as bad by being snail paced and unbelievably slow.  A middle ground between the two systems needs to be found because as I said before, going back to strait out Origins combat engine, is unacceptable.

[alex90c]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

alex have you ever seen an Icini warrior(thats scottish by the way) and being of a scottish family that can trace it roots back to before the roman occupation i have the full family regaila which includes a kilt sporran and a family claymore( two handed broadsword) and i can tell you its perfectly possible to backflip in a kilt without tripping over if you mind your crown jewels being on show for a brief second during the backflip

The Iceni were a British tribe, not Scottish.

If you're that confident of yourself, backflip with the full gear on and post the video on youtube. If you can do it, then good, if not, stop posting absolute sh*t.

[Aradace]

alex90c wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...

alex have you ever seen an Icini warrior(thats scottish by the way) and being of a scottish family that can trace it roots back to before the roman occupation i have the full family regaila which includes a kilt sporran and a family claymore( two handed broadsword) and i can tell you its perfectly possible to backflip in a kilt without tripping over if you mind your crown jewels being on show for a brief second during the backflip

The Iceni were a British tribe, not Scottish.

If you're that confident of yourself, backflip with the full gear on and post the video on youtube. If you can do it, then good, if not, stop posting absolute sh*t.

It'd be entertaining to watch him land on his head none the less lol.

[jbrand2002uk]

Alex that was back before a botched op resulted in me being in a wheelchair dude since as the gear is a family airloom passed down for generations the claymore in particular i have kept them the Iceni were mostly brittish yes though most were forced into scotland by the romans and intermingled with the local clans from which my family descends( the male side of my family was from the scottish clans the female side was from the Iceni)

[alex90c]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

Alex that was back before a botched op resulted in me being in a wheelchair dude

Stop. Posting. Absolute. Sh*t.

since as the gear is a family airloom passed down for generations the claymore in particular i have kept them the Iceni were mostly brittish yes though most were forced into scotland by the romans and intermingled with the local clans from which my family descends( the male side of my family was from the scottish clans the female side was from the Iceni)

"mostly British" even though they were based in the Midlands? Really?

[KLUME777]

Aradace wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

I want to get rid of the ninja animations. Like the backstab one where the rogue literally apparates into the ground and appears behind the target - whatever happened to teleportation not possible in the DA universe?

DAO's combat was realistic and believable, its universe was believable - in other words, DAO obeyed the laws of physics for the most part. But not in DA2.

inb4 elves, dwarves and magic being realistic.

Right, because shuffling into place to initiate combat is realistic?  Not saying DA2 isnt as guilty in some aspects but to claim that Origins' combat engine was somehow "superior" is a bit of a wild stretch.  Sorry, but the time it takes your "IRL" to "shuffle" to me, I've already struck you several times in real time.  In some (and others will argue many) cases, DA2's combat was at times "over the top".  But again, Origins combat was just as bad by being snail paced and unbelievably slow.  A middle ground between the two systems needs to be found because as I said before, going back to strait out Origins combat engine, is unacceptable.

Thats why i said for the most part. There were some hiccups, like the shuffling and some of the abilities lke splitting an arrow into 15 pieces, but for the most part, and in the cut scenes, DAO was pretty believable.

And i think DA's combat is far superior. Sure, its slowness could be sped up a little bit, but it never really bothered me that much. With DA2 though, the combat was the main reason i could barely finish it. It was not fun, at all. Though that is mainly because of parachuting enemies, the combat and especially the animations made it unplayable for me. I hate the animations. I agree, a middle ground between the speed would be welcomed for DA3, but i want none of DA2's animations, and that is more important for me because i don't see DAO's combat as an issue.

[mousestalker]

alex90c wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...

Alex that was back before a botched op resulted in me being in a wheelchair dude

Stop. Posting. Absolute. Sh*t.

since as the gear is a family airloom passed down for generations the claymore in particular i have kept them the Iceni were mostly brittish yes though most were forced into scotland by the romans and intermingled with the local clans from which my family descends( the male side of my family was from the scottish clans the female side was from the Iceni)

"mostly British" even though they were based in the Midlands? Really?

There's a salve that ought to reduce the redness and swelling. Just FYI.

Since DAO and DA2 are fantasy games, warriors in plate doing back flips bothers me very little. After all the games are chockful of strong yet sensitive men. And if ever there were a mythological creature it's the strong yet sensitive man.