205 réponses à ce sujet

[KLUME777]

alex90c wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...

alex have you ever seen an Icini warrior(thats scottish by the way) and being of a scottish family that can trace it roots back to before the roman occupation i have the full family regaila which includes a kilt sporran and a family claymore( two handed broadsword) and i can tell you its perfectly possible to backflip in a kilt without tripping over if you mind your crown jewels being on show for a brief second during the backflip

The Iceni were a British tribe, not Scottish.

If you're that confident of yourself, backflip with the full gear on and post the video on youtube. If you can do it, then good, if not, stop posting absolute sh*t.

Heh, i cant even do a backflip in my underwear.  (and no im not an overweight neckbeard)

[Gibb_Shepard]

Dubya75 wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Sepewrath wrote...

Ukki wrote...
The primary function of the Mage is to be the heavy artillery, i.e. shoot/bombard from distance. There is no need to try to implement dance moves while doing so. Should the Mage end up in close combat then yes ability fight with staff would be handy. However that it not the case with DA2. Most of the time my Mage just performs useless pole dancing which gets annoying in the long run.

Should they have stuck to "poke....poke.....poke"? I looked at it as them trying to add weight behind a technique, they throw a flame form their staff, instead of poke....poke....poke. Those things look like they should have hit you with all the force of a delicate summer breeze.

No one's saying go back to origins. No one. Just a more realistic approach to mage combat, preferably one without dance choreography. 

Mage combat is THE COOLEST in the game! Why would they go and change something that looks this good?
If the mage movements don't make sense to you, then perhaps you are indeed looking for something more Origins-related.

Oh is it the "COOLEST"!!? Is it full of awesome-sauce aswell? With a side of epic-chips? How about we really make it look CRAZY, and include kicking fireballs and a shuffle version of Swan Lake while performing basic attacks for DA3? YEEEAAAHHH!!!! Lets depart from any kind of realism in the combat, so it can look keeeewl.

Sarcasm got the better of me. Anyway, if by "Something more Origins related" you mean "Something that is remotely realistic in a situation of combat", then yes, i guess i am.

Modifié par Gibb_Shepard, 25 septembre 2011 - 02:03 .

[jbrand2002uk]

I want an Insta-Gibb potion so it'll be Gibbilicious

[Uccio]

DKJaigen wrote...

Your wrong on all accounts. I have a zweihander myself and i can swing it as fast as a cardboard. And you can do handstands and backflips in late style full plate armor.

Riiiight.

[Arthur Cousland]

Ooh...can I have some epic chips with awesome sauce? That's my favorite!

[Uccio]

jbrand2002uk wrote...

I also have worn full plate armour with chainmail and used to often take part in battle recreations yes its heavy but once you adapt and condition your body to it you'd be suprised at just how agile and fast you can be even with a sword and as most swords carry their weight in the whole blade or the tip of the blade you dont need to use a lot of muscle for a powerful swing as the momentum caused by the blade's weight does most of the work for you.

I´ve worn gambeson with chain armour and brigadine on top of it and that was stiff enough outfit while equipped with damascus vikingsword (not sure about the name) and wooden shield with metal reinforcements. I also had arm and leg protection made out of steel.  And I also had norman helm. I can tell you that swinging around in those were demanding enough, not to mention if I actually had to fight in them.

Modifié par Ukki, 25 septembre 2011 - 04:05 .

[dsl08002]

The realistic part in DAO was more fun in my opinion than the fast quick and slash in DA2, i felt more part of the combat.

[TEWR]

KLUME777 wrote...

I want to get rid of the ninja animations. Like the backstab one where the rogue literally apparates into the ground and appears behind the target - whatever happened to teleportation not possible in the DA universe?

DAO's combat was realistic and believable, its universe was believable - in other words, DAO obeyed the laws of physics for the most part. But not in DA2.

inb4 elves, dwarves and magic being realistic.

Backstab should be reworked. My idea was for the rogue to release a flask that covers the entire field in smoke (not so much that you can't see the field, but so you can say "He's obscured"), and then he runs to the enemy's backside, where he then stabs the foe. Or just have the rogue still end up behind the foe like it does now, so as to not remove control from the player for too long. At least with a smoke flask that big, it maintains a touch of realism.

To be honest though, I'm wondering how many people can actually claim what's realistic and what's not if they haven't been in an actual fight with these types of weapons, scripted or real.

[DarkDragon777]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

I want to get rid of the ninja animations. Like the backstab one where the rogue literally apparates into the ground and appears behind the target - whatever happened to teleportation not possible in the DA universe?

DAO's combat was realistic and believable, its universe was believable - in other words, DAO obeyed the laws of physics for the most part. But not in DA2.

inb4 elves, dwarves and magic being realistic.

Backstab should be reworked. My idea was for the rogue to release a flask that covers the entire field in smoke (not so much that you can't see the field, but so you can say "He's obscured"), and then he runs to the enemy's backside, where he then stabs the foe. Or just have the rogue still end up behind the foe like it does now, so as to not remove control from the player for too long. At least with a smoke flask that big, it maintains a touch of realism.

To be honest though, I'm wondering how many people can actually claim what's realistic and what's not if they haven't been in an actual fight with these types of weapons, scripted or real.

I think it would actually be cool if while doing backstab, your rogue first parries and enemy attack and does a quick 360 degree turn and stabs the enemy's back. No need to magically go underground.

[Heather Cline]

OP do you want some cheese with your wine?

[alex90c]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

I want to get rid of the ninja animations. Like the backstab one where the rogue literally apparates into the ground and appears behind the target - whatever happened to teleportation not possible in the DA universe?

DAO's combat was realistic and believable, its universe was believable - in other words, DAO obeyed the laws of physics for the most part. But not in DA2.

inb4 elves, dwarves and magic being realistic.

Backstab should be reworked. My idea was for the rogue to release a flask that covers the entire field in smoke (not so much that you can't see the field, but so you can say "He's obscured"), and then he runs to the enemy's backside, where he then stabs the foe. Or just have the rogue still end up behind the foe like it does now, so as to not remove control from the player for too long. At least with a smoke flask that big, it maintains a touch of realism.

To be honest though, I'm wondering how many people can actually claim what's realistic and what's not if they haven't been in an actual fight with these types of weapons, scripted or real.

Or maybe it should be like DA:O where you actually have to position your character to achieve backstabs, rather than "press button > AWESOME LEGO BRICK EXPLOSION"

[schalafi]

Ukki wrote...

schalafi wrote...

I guess the greatest improvement in fighting style in DA2 for me was playing a Mage. I found playing a Mage in Origins waaay too slow, plus I didn't like the friendly fire, even on casual. However, in DA2 it was awesome. Alternating spells like Firestorm and Tempest between myself and Anders wiped out just about every enemy almost immediately!

At first the Mage style in DA2 seems nice but then you are left to wonder why does he have to dance with the staff all the time. In a combat situation one would hardly turn his back to the enemy and shoot over ones shoulder. I have no objection against some of the moves but the DA2 Mage was way over the top with that constant strange pole dancing.

I don't care if Anders and my Hawke dance the Mexican Hat dance, as long as they can wipe out a whole army of bad guys while doing it.

[MingWolf]

DKJaigen wrote...

Ukki wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Fighting as slowly in DA  in the medieval times  would result in your dead. DA2 is far more believable then DA1
And the witcher is just as fast.

Have you ever tried to swordplay with a two-handed or broadsword? Or do that in full plate armor? I can tell you that no real person can back-flip in plate armor nor swing two handed sword like it would be made out of cardboard (like fenris or templars in DA2). I have few medieval swords modeled and produced like originals and I can tell you that swinging one of those babies for even 15 minutes will be a good test of endurance, and that is without armor.

Your wrong on all accounts. I have a zweihander myself and i can swing it as fast as a cardboard. And you can do handstands and backflips in late style full plate armor.

No.

Okay, I don't know how plausible "late style" full plate is for backflipping and hand standing, but I can almost gaurantee you that most people in a combat situation daring to try flowery feats will likely have their arses handed to them even before they land.  It's impractical and achieves nothing. 

Ninjas were brought up several times in this thread, and I 'm going to say with reasonable confidence that aern't the flashy back flipping, zap this way, fly that way-type fighters either.  They are unorthodox fighters who favor cunning, deception and practicallity above all else.  They would sooner slit one's throat from behind before being seen than to flip over their opponent doing dance moves in a sustained fight.  That's anime.  You see that kind of stuff in Jackie Chan movies.   

DA:O combat can be seen as a bit slow, but I find it much closer to realism because it wasn't so over-the-top.  Everything from the plated armors to the weapons looked like they had mass, so it fit well.  Sorry, but I can't see even the most skilled martial artist fight the way they do in DA2.  Too flashy, too flowery.  My opinion.

As for the Witcher, the fighting there was fast, yes.  But keep in mind that the Witchers are mutants with abilities that stretch beyond human capability (they tell you that, it's part of the lore).  Even then, none of the fighting in the Witcher quite matches the roadrunning speeds of DA2.  It needs to be toned down.

[TEWR]

alex90c wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

I want to get rid of the ninja animations. Like the backstab one where the rogue literally apparates into the ground and appears behind the target - whatever happened to teleportation not possible in the DA universe?

DAO's combat was realistic and believable, its universe was believable - in other words, DAO obeyed the laws of physics for the most part. But not in DA2.

inb4 elves, dwarves and magic being realistic.

Backstab should be reworked. My idea was for the rogue to release a flask that covers the entire field in smoke (not so much that you can't see the field, but so you can say "He's obscured"), and then he runs to the enemy's backside, where he then stabs the foe. Or just have the rogue still end up behind the foe like it does now, so as to not remove control from the player for too long. At least with a smoke flask that big, it maintains a touch of realism.

To be honest though, I'm wondering how many people can actually claim what's realistic and what's not if they haven't been in an actual fight with these types of weapons, scripted or real.

Or maybe it should be like DA:O where you actually have to position your character to achieve backstabs, rather than "press button > AWESOME LEGO BRICK EXPLOSION"

eh if they can make not take forever to position the character like that sure. To be fair though, we no longer have lego goop explosions all the time. Now they only happen if you use Mighty Blow or Archer's Lance on a frozen enemy (and I have to say, making Ogres explode always makes me laugh despite the blatant OTT-ness and unrealistic nature. Or maybe because of it. I dunno.).

Personally, I want them removed entirely and we go back to execution animations. Because I really want to see my mages immolate/electrocute/freeze/poison/Hades style soul steal the enemy.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I do miss the executions though. I want to see class Specific Executions:

Rogue: Grabs the enemy, uses them as a shield, and slits their throat
Archer: Fires an automatic critical hit at the eye of the enemy, which you can see protruding
S&S: Dismemberment of a limb or decapitation. Maybe another one where you slam the shield into their heads?
Mage: Dependant on the element of the staff: Immolation, Electrocution, Poison, Freezing, GoW3 Hades style soul steal (for spirit staves)
2H: Improve a few of the Origins animations. One that comes to mind is Sten's where he turns around and stabs the enemy through the stomach with Asala.

[Prince_12]

Only the rogue fighting style annyoed me, but I enjoyed very much the mage and warrior's one. Nothing wrong with them.

[DKJaigen]

MingWolf wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Ukki wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Fighting as slowly in DA  in the medieval times  would result in your dead. DA2 is far more believable then DA1
And the witcher is just as fast.

Have you ever tried to swordplay with a two-handed or broadsword? Or do that in full plate armor? I can tell you that no real person can back-flip in plate armor nor swing two handed sword like it would be made out of cardboard (like fenris or templars in DA2). I have few medieval swords modeled and produced like originals and I can tell you that swinging one of those babies for even 15 minutes will be a good test of endurance, and that is without armor.

Your wrong on all accounts. I have a zweihander myself and i can swing it as fast as a cardboard. And you can do handstands and backflips in late style full plate armor.

No.

Okay, I don't know how plausible "late style" full plate is for backflipping and hand standing, but I can almost gaurantee you that most people in a combat situation daring to try flowery feats will likely have their arses handed to them even before they land.  It's impractical and achieves nothing. 

Ninjas were brought up several times in this thread, and I 'm going to say with reasonable confidence that aern't the flashy back flipping, zap this way, fly that way-type fighters either.  They are unorthodox fighters who favor cunning, deception and practicallity above all else.  They would sooner slit one's throat from behind before being seen than to flip over their opponent doing dance moves in a sustained fight.  That's anime.  You see that kind of stuff in Jackie Chan movies.  

Thats something i agree with. Backflipping serves no purpose in a duel. at best you only distract your opponent. at worst it will leave you wide open for an attack 

DA:O combat can be seen as a bit slow, but I find it much closer to realism because it wasn't so over-the-top.  Everything from the plated armors to the weapons looked like they had mass, so it fit well.  Sorry, but I can't see even the most skilled martial artist fight the way they do in DA2.  Too flashy, too flowery.  My opinion.

As i said before if you attacked or moved so slowly during combat you would be dead in a medieval battle. i find the speed of the attacks in DA far more realistic.

As for the Witcher, the fighting there was fast, yes.  But keep in mind that the Witchers are mutants with abilities that stretch beyond human capability (they tell you that, it's part of the lore).  Even then, none of the fighting in the Witcher quite matches the roadrunning speeds of DA2.  It needs to be toned down.

Modifié par DKJaigen, 25 septembre 2011 - 07:38 .

[DKJaigen]

Ukki wrote...

jbrand2002uk wrote...

I also have worn full plate armour with chainmail and used to often take part in battle recreations yes its heavy but once you adapt and condition your body to it you'd be suprised at just how agile and fast you can be even with a sword and as most swords carry their weight in the whole blade or the tip of the blade you dont need to use a lot of muscle for a powerful swing as the momentum caused by the blade's weight does most of the work for you.

I´ve worn gambeson with chain armour and brigadine on top of it and that was stiff enough outfit while equipped with damascus vikingsword (not sure about the name) and wooden shield with metal reinforcements. I also had arm and leg protection made out of steel.  And I also had norman helm. I can tell you that swinging around in those were demanding enough, not to mention if I actually had to fight in them.

Ouch thats heavy a s hell. Good thing full plate armor didnt have such problems.

[R0vena]

I am fine with both DAO and DA2 combat styles. Combat is fun in its own way, but for me it is not the most important part of the game - and as long as my party can beat their enemies I don't care about how realistic or non-realistic the moves are.

[Zubie]

I preferred DAO's combat but I can live with DA2's. Would be nice to see the speed reduced a bit though and the silly animations reworked.

[philippe willaume]

Moving in armour takes some getting using to but after a while you get used to it. I wear a 35 kg Italian harness
and I can wear it all day and show fight 30 minutes 3 times a day (German harness are about 25 kg)
and yes mail+ gambeseon above and bellow the mail is probably heavier than plate.

But on the same topic a jack of 31 layers of linen will stop arrow and sword strike (and black powder musquetery from the 19th cent.) and at least you can put it on your own.

I am not sure about back-flipping in full plate, not to mention that it is a retarded move as the game plan is to keep the hard metal bit with no gap toward the opponent.

Most of the one hander from Europe are about 2 lbs long sword are about 3-4lbs and zweihanders between 4-6lbs.

When facing and opponent with a two handed weapon, two weapons, shield & 1 handed weapon, and knives are at a disadvantage when movement is concerned, this is because it is easier to realign the point, shortening the weapon with a two handed weapons as well as being effective from a longer range. To be fair we could have a caveat for spears, but it is a hell of a job to get close of a guy with a pole arm or a two handed sword.

Fighting without armour with a two handed weapons, is never going to last long. The first mistake and someone ends up in two parts.
With a knife, small sword, rapier, you need to really on a more precise placement to kill/disable someone.
But fighting with a weapon, being armoured or not is about establishing dominant position to deliver a strike safely (i.e. without being hit). This can be achieved by movement, distraction or stealth.
Bear in mind the Joffroy de Charny who wrote a book on Chivalry in the 14th century and was considered the epitomy of knighthood followed a guy that betrayed him into Italy and killed the dude in his bed.
A medieval fair fight is turning up unexpected with more men and better armour and better weapons.

All that being said, I think the point of the OP is not about “realism” it is about the feel, and the animations have more to do with that than the game rules.

[maxernst]

The rogue is fun to play, but all the extraneous acrobatics are silly. The actual speed of the movements and swings (except for the rogue teleporting around) wouldn't be so problematic if it weren't for the fact that you nearly always hit, instead of there being a lot of parrying and repositioning.

[philippe willaume]

PresidentCowboy wrote...

If we apparently want realism they should just get rid of magic altogether.

I do not think this is really what it is about; I think it is more about the feel and the ability to adapt tactically.

Personally I preferred combat in DA:0 despite the fact that most of the combat aspect of DA2 are a much better design.

As I have mentioned before the character in DA:0 where more versatile, so you could always get through an encounter without have the optimal build and optimal party for the encounter.
 
You see we could make the combat mechanic more realistic
By having bonuses according to weapons and armours
 
I.e. if you are a warrior class the two handed weapons increases you defence skill
Heavy armour increases your defence skill.
 
If you are a rogue
You could have a bonus to attack opponent with a longer weapon
You could have bonus to damage because you know where to strike. i.e. doing the same amount of damage with dagger as one would with a sword .
 
But if the animation looks OTT and it is all about kitting and drinking potion…
 
Personally I think we could have both, it is a matter of cooldown time for talents and potion
 

Modifié par philippe willaume, 25 septembre 2011 - 05:52 .

[TEWR]

I just want ALL of the enemies to use some actual tactics and the same animations we use.

Tactics, animations, cross-class combos, and spells/talents.

Bring those in and you've got a great combat system.

[Pasquale1234]

easygame88 wrote...

I preferred DAO's combat but I can live with DA2's. Would be nice to see the speed reduced a bit though and the silly animations reworked.

Yes, if they are going to continue with the super-fast combat, I would like them to implement a slider that would allow players to slow it down.

I found DA2's combat too fast for me to do very much other than adjust tactics and press the awesome button.  The additional tactics slots were certainly welcome, since it's really only feasible to control one party member at a time on the console.

I play on PS3, and everything you do in combat is real time.  Consoles (the PS3, anyway) do not have the ability to pause and issue commands to all party members.  It all has to be done real-time.

For clarification (in case anyone is interested in the details of managing combat on the PS3):

Combat pauses if you bring up the radial menu.  From the radial menu, you can:
~ Use an item (potions)
~ Use a talent or spell - if you choose one that has an AOE, you are then given the targeting mechanism.  Otherwise, it will be applied to the target that was in effect before you brought up the menu.
~ Hold or un-hold the party (good luck with that)

Things you cannot do while combat is paused:
~ Select which party member you wish to control.  That is done in real-time, by cycling through them.  You can also select the entire party, although that is rarely useful and generally limited to things like having all of them target the same enemy or move them (and some of them will be blocked and not able to move where you want them to).
~ Move your selected party member(s).  That is done in real time, using the joystick (one of the reasons why having waves dropping on your squishies is so frustrating).
~ Select a different target - done in real time.