205 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

Things you cannot do while combat is paused:
~ Select which party member you wish to control. That is done in real-time, by cycling through them. You can also select the entire party, although that is rarely useful and generally limited to things like having all of them target the same enemy or move them (and some of them will be blocked and not able to move where you want them to).
~ Move your selected party member(s). That is done in real time, using the joystick (one of the reasons why having waves dropping on your squishies is so frustrating).
~ Select a different target - done in real time.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you (which I might be), this makes no sense. Origins allowed you to cycle through which party member you control in the Radial Menu, and DAII is no different.

You can also move your selected party member using the "Move to point" from the Radial menu, which doesn't involve you using the joystick.

You can also select a new target using the radial menu by either pressing buttons on the d-pad or moving the camera around.

[TEWR]

Filament wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I just want ALL of the enemies to use some actual tactics and the same animations we use.

Tactics, animations, cross-class combos, and spells/talents.

Bring those in and you've got a great combat system.

I think if they use all the same animations it might run the risk of actually getting too frenetic. I mean, some people say it's that way already, but if every mook were speed dashing and leaping 30 feet (except as they enter combat <_<) I might start to agree. I could agree for the more powerful enemies (assassins, commanders, named enemies) getting those animations.

Well, I don't want speed dashes and 30 feet jumps for the enemies, but I mean basic attack animations when they're up in front of you.

I actually want Aveline's speed dash where she ****s fire to disappear.

[Blastback]

I'd like to get rid of the over the top combat animations and the teleport backstabs. And have the speed somewhere between Origins and DA2.

[Blastback]

I'd also like to see the combat animations be less repative. not just the same exact pattern of the same four moves over and over.

[Pasquale1234]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Things you cannot do while combat is paused:
~ Select which party member you wish to control. That is done in real-time, by cycling through them. You can also select the entire party, although that is rarely useful and generally limited to things like having all of them target the same enemy or move them (and some of them will be blocked and not able to move where you want them to).
~ Move your selected party member(s). That is done in real time, using the joystick (one of the reasons why having waves dropping on your squishies is so frustrating).
~ Select a different target - done in real time.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you (which I might be), this makes no sense. Origins allowed you to cycle through which party member you control in the Radial Menu, and DAII is no different.

You can also move your selected party member using the "Move to point" from the Radial menu, which doesn't involve you using the joystick.

You can also select a new target using the radial menu by either pressing buttons on the d-pad or moving the camera around.

Oops - I misspoke.  It's been awhile since I've used any of those features.  I appreciate your correcting it.

But I've never found any "move to point" feature / function on the radial menu.  If you could point it out for me, I would be most appreciative.

[Atakuma]

Here are a few suggestions

1. Change the charge ability into a sprint, sped up if necessary.
2. Have the character roll behind an enemy instead of teleporting.
3. Make auto attack animations seamless by getting rid of the finisher.
4. Get rid of the silly trails of light and fire during special moves.

[esper]

Pasquale1234 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Things you cannot do while combat is paused:
~ Select which party member you wish to control. That is done in real-time, by cycling through them. You can also select the entire party, although that is rarely useful and generally limited to things like having all of them target the same enemy or move them (and some of them will be blocked and not able to move where you want them to).
~ Move your selected party member(s). That is done in real time, using the joystick (one of the reasons why having waves dropping on your squishies is so frustrating).
~ Select a different target - done in real time.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you (which I might be), this makes no sense. Origins allowed you to cycle through which party member you control in the Radial Menu, and DAII is no different.

You can also move your selected party member using the "Move to point" from the Radial menu, which doesn't involve you using the joystick.

You can also select a new target using the radial menu by either pressing buttons on the d-pad or moving the camera around.

Oops - I misspoke.  It's been awhile since I've used any of those features.  I appreciate your correcting it.

But I've never found any "move to point" feature / function on the radial menu.  If you could point it out for me, I would be most appreciative.

The move to point is at to the left of the top icon. Is has a sort of (# or +) look to it, can't describe it better. You can all selecting the whole team by pressing both l1 and r1 (ps3) or select a new member of the team by cycle through the party members in the radial menu as outside the radial menu. you press the exact same bottums. If you fall out of the radial menu it is liky because it stands on 'hold open' which means that if you accidential let go of the radial bottom the menu disappears.
I have have the radial to stay on toggle/open closed which I don't need to worry about a accidentaly realizing the bottom and that the radial menu function as a pause bottom in combat.

[Abispa]

I prefer the way that combat is handled in Fable, but I'll definitely take DA2 combat over DA:O, and I am NOT saying that DA2 was even close to being perfect. The aging NWN/SW:KotOR system of hitting the button once and watch as your character automatically run to any enemy (even if you couldn't see him), start swinging automatically, and stand their trading hits till one of you died had ONE advantage over DA2 in that it allowed you to eat dinner more easily once your character was a high enough level.

I do say that the default difficulty in DA2 is ridiculously easy, though that has become a problem on a LOT of next generation games I've played recently.

[Pasquale1234]

esper wrote...

The move to point is at to the left of the top icon. Is has a sort of (# or +) look to it, can't describe it better. You can all selecting the whole team by pressing both l1 and r1 (ps3) or select a new member of the team by cycle through the party members in the radial menu as outside the radial menu. you press the exact same bottums. If you fall out of the radial menu it is liky because it stands on 'hold open' which means that if you accidential let go of the radial bottom the menu disappears.
I have have the radial to stay on toggle/open closed which I don't need to worry about a accidentaly realizing the bottom and that the radial menu function as a pause bottom in combat.

Ah, okay - thanks for that.  It was added to DA2, but absent from DAO, which may be why I overlooked it.

So the notes I made about PS3 controls in that previous post were pretty much incorrect.

But I still think it could be interesting to have a slider to control the speed of combat.

[Dubya75]

Abispa wrote...

I prefer the way that combat is handled in Fable, but I'll definitely take DA2 combat over DA:O, and I am NOT saying that DA2 was even close to being perfect. The aging NWN/SW:KotOR system of hitting the button once and watch as your character automatically run to any enemy (even if you couldn't see him), start swinging automatically, and stand their trading hits till one of you died had ONE advantage over DA2 in that it allowed you to eat dinner more easily once your character was a high enough level.

I do say that the default difficulty in DA2 is ridiculously easy, though that has become a problem on a LOT of next generation games I've played recently.

And this is why there are different difficulty levels. To accomodate all levels of players.

[Pzykozis]

I hear all this hate for 'instant teleport' abilities what a shame. Vendetta was my favourite skill for rogues. Personally I just take it for representing what the constraints of technology do not allow, that is to say the rogue moves will as much speed as they can and they attack their opponent, same thing with flicker from awakening.

I wouldn't mind the speed and animations for rogues to be worked on though the main auto attack animations were fairly.. floaty in that they didn't feel like they connected at all..

I'd prefer a full move towards more action based combat because I feel the old hotbar combat is fairly outdated now I've only seen visceral and well done combat done in that style Demon souls for example but since that'll never happen (probably especially because of the team based nature of bioware games) or I guess someone would set fire to themselves in some sort of protest if it did. A man can dream though.

[Blastback]

Atakuma wrote...

Here are a few suggestions

1. Change the charge ability into a sprint, sped up if necessary.
2. Have the character roll behind an enemy instead of teleporting.
3. Make auto attack animations seamless by getting rid of the finisher.
4. Get rid of the silly trails of light and fire during special moves.

I would love this.

[Foolsfolly]

alex90c wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

I want to get rid of the ninja animations. Like the backstab one where the rogue literally apparates into the ground and appears behind the target - whatever happened to teleportation not possible in the DA universe?

DAO's combat was realistic and believable, its universe was believable - in other words, DAO obeyed the laws of physics for the most part. But not in DA2.

inb4 elves, dwarves and magic being realistic.

Backstab should be reworked. My idea was for the rogue to release a flask that covers the entire field in smoke (not so much that you can't see the field, but so you can say "He's obscured"), and then he runs to the enemy's backside, where he then stabs the foe. Or just have the rogue still end up behind the foe like it does now, so as to not remove control from the player for too long. At least with a smoke flask that big, it maintains a touch of realism.

To be honest though, I'm wondering how many people can actually claim what's realistic and what's not if they haven't been in an actual fight with these types of weapons, scripted or real.

Or maybe it should be like DA:O where you actually have to position your character to achieve backstabs, rather than "press button > AWESOME LEGO BRICK EXPLOSION"

Why are we complaining about being medieval Batman again? The Backstab power was and still is the coolest attack the Rogue's ever had in this series. And it's certainly not as farfetched as Flicker from Awakening. And I remembered people being happy to have an AoE Rogue ability in that.

And flanking attacks are still in the game, they just don't have that sideways attack animation to show you're doing it. They should perhaps still have a "this is a flanking attack" animation but the stats for it and the passives all take flanking into account.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I just want ALL of the enemies to use some actual tactics and the same animations we use.

Tactics, animations, cross-class combos, and spells/talents.

Bring those in and you've got a great combat system.

::sips coffee::

... I can agree to this. Animals, undead, abominations, and the like can still be our easy dumb brute enemies perfect for grinding. While certain elite mooks (Antivan Crows, Templars, City Guard, Orders of Knights, and stuff) would use abilities and tactics like we can. It'd be fun to see how sometimes fighting 5 well trained guys is harder than 20 untrained muggers.

Blastback wrote...

I'd like to get rid of the over the top
combat animations and the teleport backstabs. And have the speed
somewhere between Origins and DA2.

I don't understand why you'd want to slow it down. It isn't so frentic that you can't keep up with the combat. It's responsive and quick. You always have control over your party and tactical pausing is still viable (and required in some fights).

I can agree with some combat changes. The enemies exploding into pieces was stupid and they've patched it so that only happens in rare cercumstances now. The over-the-head look at the battlefield should return for the PC guys because being able to see the battlefield helps inform your decision making.

But it shouldn't slow down. It shouldn't speed up much more either. But it shouldn't slow down especially for some sense of realism. Who cares about realism. Realism isn't fun. And you have to make really weird exceptions. Like why a person doesn't die from a mace to the head during standard combat or why a guy on fire is totally fine. Why not have a stamina meter that says you can do so much before you must eat and sleep? That's realistic but it won't be fun.

And by the way, I happen to think two-handed combat looks fine at this speed. I can watch Lord of the Rings right now and see Gimli and Aragorn swinging into orc just as fast (although not as fast as Double Haste'd Fenris can). It was too slow in DA:O to the point that I only did a two-hander once and stuck with S&S otherwise.

[Blastback]

It was mainly the speed of the rogue combat that bothers me. It isn't the lack of realism, it's just to damn over the top, same with the teleport backstab. As much personal asthetic taste as anything.

[Brockololly]

Blastback wrote...

I'd also like to see the combat animations be less repative. not just the same exact pattern of the same four moves over and over.

I think thats part of the problem with the increased speed- the autoattacks simply recycle over and over and over again and it looks ridiculous when they do it so fast.

Like the mage doing the same precise autoattack  dance/twirl or rogues doing the same fast forward slashing at air when they autoattack.  Coupled with the decreased number of unique abilities and more passive abilities, visually I thought combat got pretty boring looking when everyone is simply doing their autoattack dance in fast forward while you whittle away at an enemy's HP and wait for cooldowns to expire. 

I wish they'd add back in abilities with unique animations- so keeping something like Flame Blast and Fireball separate, as opposed to lumping everything into Fireball and upgraded versions of Fireball. That way, you can have a fire attack that isn't just the same thing over and over again and visually it looks different.

And if they keep going with the cross class abilities, it would be nice if they had some more obvious visual effects so you knew when they were happening. Or maybe even if you had the game paused and were issuing orders, you had a more obvious way to know you were actually going to get a cross class combo.

[Mr.House]

Brockololly wrote...
I think thats part of the problem with the increased speed- the autoattacks simply recycle over and over and over again and it looks ridiculous when they do it so fast.

Like the mage doing the same precise autoattack  dance/twirl or rogues doing the same fast forward slashing at air when they autoattack.  Coupled with the decreased number of unique abilities and more passive abilities, visually I thought combat got pretty boring looking when everyone is simply doing their autoattack dance in fast forward while you whittle away at an enemy's HP and wait for cooldowns to expire. 

I wish they'd add back in abilities with unique animations- so keeping something like Flame Blast and Fireball separate, as opposed to lumping everything into Fireball and upgraded versions of Fireball. That way, you can have a fire attack that isn't just the same thing over and over again and visually it looks different.

And if they keep going with the cross class abilities, it would be nice if they had some more obvious visual effects so you knew when they were happening. Or maybe even if you had the game paused and were issuing orders, you had a more obvious way to know you were actually going to get a cross class combo.

1: It was no diffrent then the normal attack animation in DAO
2: All ablities had there own animations in DA2
3: If you see a stagger, brittle or disoanrte(sp) symbol over there head you can do a cross-combo so the visual effect is there, if you don't know what talents to use then that's your fault for not reading the talents.

Modifié par Mr.House, 25 septembre 2011 - 09:46 .

[alex90c]

Mr.House wrote...


1: It was no diffrent then the normal attack animation in DAO
2: All ablities had there own animations in DA2
3: If you see a stagger, brittle or disoanrte(sp) symbol over there head you can do a cross-combo so the visual effect is there, if you don't know what talents to use then that's your fault for not reading the talents.

1. DA:O animations weren't done in the same order again and again, it was kinda randomised
2. vendetta, backstab, back-to-back all identical
3. yes

[tmp7704]

Foolsfolly wrote...

I don't understand why you'd want to slow it down.

Because it feels too fast for him.

If you don't understand it, ask yourself the reverse -- do you want the animations to be, say, 50% faster than they are already? After all, it'd make the game even more responsive so that'd make it even better, no?

But if you think the game could then become tad bit silly in appearance... well, that's how it feels for these who think it's already too fast.

Modifié par tmp7704, 25 septembre 2011 - 10:12 .

[Abispa]

Dubya75 wrote...

Abispa wrote...

I prefer the way that combat is handled in Fable, but I'll definitely take DA2 combat over DA:O, and I am NOT saying that DA2 was even close to being perfect. The aging NWN/SW:KotOR system of hitting the button once and watch as your character automatically run to any enemy (even if you couldn't see him), start swinging automatically, and stand their trading hits till one of you died had ONE advantage over DA2 in that it allowed you to eat dinner more easily once your character was a high enough level.

I do say that the default difficulty in DA2 is ridiculously easy, though that has become a problem on a LOT of next generation games I've played recently.

And this is why there are different difficulty levels. To accomodate all levels of players.

I'm not debating that. I usually start games on "hard" now a days myself. I'm just saying that I've read tons of posts from people complaining that DA2 was dumbed down because it's too easy (any plenty who say it's dumbed down because of other reasons). There are quite a few people who feel that the "normal" game is the TRUE game while the other settings are not. I'm not one of them.

[Brockololly]

Mr.House wrote...
3: If you see a stagger, brittle or disoanrte(sp) symbol over there head you can do a cross-combo so the visual effect is there, if you don't know what talents to use then that's your fault for not reading the talents.

I'm thinking more along the line of unique animations for the cross class combos, not just having them happen as essentially 2 separate attacks. So have it such that Alistair shield bashes somebody into the air and Leliana shoots them down with arrows in one fluid animation. Or have Leliana shoot at somebody long range with her bow and have Morrigan enchant the arrows with flame/ice on the fly as they travel to their target. Or have Zevran jab dual daggers into the back of the enemy  only to have Sten lop their head off  from the front with his 2 hander- again, all in one fluid animation.


But I  think they'd likely need more of a pause/play, queuing up of attacks focus to have that kind of a more cinematic presentation. I would love it if they adopted a more VATS style pause and play style combat so you could queue up attacks and have them more clearly linked together and even target specific body parts on enemies to trigger different effects. Or even target certain things in the environment that way- have your mage target  a tree or boulder to have it crash down on an enemy or something like that. Bring in more physics based elements to the combat and environment.

Modifié par Brockololly, 25 septembre 2011 - 10:37 .

[philippe willaume]

tmp7704 wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

I don't understand why you'd want to slow it down.

Because it feels too fast for him.

If you don't understand it, ask yourself the reverse -- do you want the animations to be, say, 50% faster than they are already? After all, it'd make the game even more responsive so that'd make it even better, no?

But if you think the game could then become tad bit silly in appearance... well, that's how it feels for these who think it's already too fast.

Personally I find the combat in DA:2 more tedious ( due to the repetitiveness of the action the character can do), so it does appear to take longer for me.
Where as time wise DA:2  is usually quicker than in DA:0.
But DA:0 was more enjoyable despite having to pause more often. Especially since you could rely on your own mages to Ice cube or roast you, so you could not really use tactics as well as in DA:2
 
I think that since you had more option to chose from, combat was a little less of the same old review of repetitive talents animations.

[Maconbar]

philippe willaume wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

I don't understand why you'd want to slow it down.

Because it feels too fast for him.

If you don't understand it, ask yourself the reverse -- do you want the animations to be, say, 50% faster than they are already? After all, it'd make the game even more responsive so that'd make it even better, no?

But if you think the game could then become tad bit silly in appearance... well, that's how it feels for these who think it's already too fast.

Personally I find the combat in DA:2 more tedious ( due to the repetitiveness of the action the character can do), so it does appear to take longer for me.
Where as time wise DA:2  is usually quicker than in DA:0.
But DA:0 was more enjoyable despite having to pause more often. Especially since you could rely on your own mages to Ice cube or roast you, so you could not really use tactics as well as in DA:2
 
I think that since you had more option to chose from, combat was a little less of the same old review of repetitive talents animations.

I think that DA:2 combat wouldn't seem so bad if every encounter didn't play out the same way.

[Tatinger]

Rahelron wrote...

Improvements on combat system can be made of course. But they must be minor changes, like the introduction of the omniblade in ME3 for example. Less enemies in each encounter, new monster types with unique attacks, some new specialization tree (maybe one for each class)... these might be good ideas, but nothing more drastic than that.

And re-implementing the Hold Position command?  Please?