233 réponses à ce sujet

[TEWR]

Lord Aesir wrote...

lobi wrote...

Meredith didn't just crack down on the Mages, the Templars were brought into line also. She was sent to Kirkwall to put an end to Corruption. Those used to the status quo were bound to rebel. No more bribes from nobles, no more blatant Lyrium abuse, Satanic orgies- gone.
Of course that criminal scum Orsino tried to undermine her. Remember that mission where Orsino sends you to Hightown? You arrive only to see normal mages and templars working together. "We know your spying for Orsino!" they shout.

...Play the mission again.  They all assume you're working for Meredith even if you were sent by Orsino.  What do you really think Orsino had to gain by knowingly stopping a conspiracy to remove the biggest threat to him, Meredith?

that was actually a bug. They really do say "We know you're spying for Orsino!"

one of the biggest facepalm moments ever. Even worse is when you talk to Thrask before that quest and he says "I know you supported the First Enchanter" and then he acts like I supported Meredith in Best Served Cold!

Bioware really made a horrendous game...



@lobi:

That has absolutely nothing to do with the rebellion. The thin Veil most likely had a Desire Demon pour through that ended up enthralling the mages and Templars, much like the Desire demon in Ferelden's Circle did to that one Templar or Hanker did to the Followers of She

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 26 octobre 2011 - 12:17 .

[Mr.House]

I still find it funny how he keeps on saying there is no corruption in the circle yet at the end of the game, he proves Meredith, while a nutcase, was right.

*claps* Good job Orsino.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

nerdage wrote...

I'd think a coward would smile and nod to Meredith like pretty much everyone else who isn't militantly separatist, and without resorting to militant action I can't imagine how else he could remove Meredith without the support of either the nobility or the chantry.

He'd smile and nod if it wasn't for the fact that he was only panicing when Meredith wanted to search the tower for blood magic, something which he -did- have in his possessions.

He wasn't acting panicked, he was acting outraged that Meredith would do that, as most anyone would be if someone demanded to search their home without any proof of anything.

There was enough proof of rebellious mages in the Gallows to warrant a search of the quarters based on suspecion alone. Orsino was only "outraged" at the investigation because he feared for his own sorry hide. If he and his fellows had truly nothing to hide, then he wouldn't have denied the search to begin with now would he?

Wrong. The rebellion was quelled -- by plot stupidity, but nevertheless quelled -- and there were no more rebellions or suspicious mages and Templars.

There was no legitimate cause for the search to be called for.

Other than of course, you know, make sure the rebellion was truly quelled, and not just a fraction of it.

[TEWR]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

nerdage wrote...

I'd think a coward would smile and nod to Meredith like pretty much everyone else who isn't militantly separatist, and without resorting to militant action I can't imagine how else he could remove Meredith without the support of either the nobility or the chantry.

He'd smile and nod if it wasn't for the fact that he was only panicing when Meredith wanted to search the tower for blood magic, something which he -did- have in his possessions.

He wasn't acting panicked, he was acting outraged that Meredith would do that, as most anyone would be if someone demanded to search their home without any proof of anything.

There was enough proof of rebellious mages in the Gallows to warrant a search of the quarters based on suspecion alone. Orsino was only "outraged" at the investigation because he feared for his own sorry hide. If he and his fellows had truly nothing to hide, then he wouldn't have denied the search to begin with now would he?

Wrong. The rebellion was quelled -- by plot stupidity, but nevertheless quelled -- and there were no more rebellions or suspicious mages and Templars.

There was no legitimate cause for the search to be called for.

Other than of course, you know, make sure the rebellion was truly quelled, and not just a fraction of it.

Considering Cullen already had the mages and Templars quarantined, Tranquiled (for the mages), and questioned I doubt that the rebellion was still alive, if at all.

I mean really, you think a Tranquil mage is going to lie?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Mr.House wrote...

I still find it funny how he keeps on saying there is no corruption in the circle yet at the end of the game, he proves Meredith, while a nutcase, was right.

*claps* Good job Orsino.

That is pretty much the whole point of the situation in the endgame. Many does have a hard time accepying that they were fools for trusting Orsino though.

[TEWR]

Mr.House wrote...

I still find it funny how he keeps on saying there is no corruption in the circle yet at the end of the game, he proves Meredith, while a nutcase, was right.

*claps* Good job Orsino.

He never once said the Circle wasn't corrupt. He said he'd help the Knight Commander look for blood mages if she'd revoke the RoA and he only took issue with the fact that Meredith was going to perform a search of the tower for no legitimate reason.

She had no probable cause to do so.

[Xilizhra]

Mr.House wrote...

I still find it funny how he keeps on saying there is no corruption in the circle yet at the end of the game, he proves Meredith, while a nutcase, was right.

*claps* Good job Orsino.

Irrelevant. The templars are worse.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

nerdage wrote...

I'd think a coward would smile and nod to Meredith like pretty much everyone else who isn't militantly separatist, and without resorting to militant action I can't imagine how else he could remove Meredith without the support of either the nobility or the chantry.

He'd smile and nod if it wasn't for the fact that he was only panicing when Meredith wanted to search the tower for blood magic, something which he -did- have in his possessions.

He wasn't acting panicked, he was acting outraged that Meredith would do that, as most anyone would be if someone demanded to search their home without any proof of anything.

There was enough proof of rebellious mages in the Gallows to warrant a search of the quarters based on suspecion alone. Orsino was only "outraged" at the investigation because he feared for his own sorry hide. If he and his fellows had truly nothing to hide, then he wouldn't have denied the search to begin with now would he?

Wrong. The rebellion was quelled -- by plot stupidity, but nevertheless quelled -- and there were no more rebellions or suspicious mages and Templars.

There was no legitimate cause for the search to be called for.

Other than of course, you know, make sure the rebellion was truly quelled, and not just a fraction of it.

Considering Cullen already had the mages and Templars quarantined, Tranquiled (for the mages), and questioned I doubt that the rebellion was still alive, if at all.

I mean really, you think a Tranquil mage is going to lie?

If a tranquil even have any recollection of his life previous to the ritual. Even so, the mages aren't all neccesarily tranquiled, nor are they neccesarily even questioned in time before The Last Straw.

[jlb524]

Mr.House wrote...

I still find it funny how he keeps on saying there is no corruption in the circle yet at the end of the game, he proves Meredith, while a nutcase, was right.

*claps* Good job Orsino.

Actually, that happened outside the Circle.

http://forum.gaijinp...47&d=1308157953

[EmperorSahlertz]

Xilizhra wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I still find it funny how he keeps on saying there is no corruption in the circle yet at the end of the game, he proves Meredith, while a nutcase, was right.

*claps* Good job Orsino.

Irrelevant. The templars are worse.

For a guy who is so happy to shout: "one wrong does not make another wrong right!" You sure are quick to play the mage apologist card.

[Everwarden]

Xilizhra wrote...

Orsino's true personality has nothing to do with the boss battle, which I believe the devs admitted was just kind of thrown in there. Ignore everything to do with that, it has no place in the story.

It wouldn't be an impossible thing to fix in a patch. That would be a case of a retcon actually being -good-.

[Xilizhra]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I still find it funny how he keeps on saying there is no corruption in the circle yet at the end of the game, he proves Meredith, while a nutcase, was right.

*claps* Good job Orsino.

Irrelevant. The templars are worse.

For a guy who is so happy to shout: "one wrong does not make another wrong right!" You sure are quick to play the mage apologist card.

I've practically lost all will to debate intelligently on this topic. Giving short slogans has the exact same impact on the other side and it's more satisfying to me personally.

I've already explained my position on why Orsino needing to not reveal Quentin's existence to Meredith was a regrettable necessity, and I don't believe research on necromancy is inherently evil. Its use, depending on what it is, might be, but that's another matter. Whatever corruption in the Circle isn't nearly as bad as the corruption that is the templars.

Also, I'm a girl.

[Herr Uhl]

Xilizhra wrote...

Irrelevant. The templars are worse.

Does this make Stalin a good guy?

[Mr.House]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I still find it funny how he keeps on saying there is no corruption in the circle yet at the end of the game, he proves Meredith, while a nutcase, was right.

*claps* Good job Orsino.

He never once said the Circle wasn't corrupt. He said he'd help the Knight Commander look for blood mages if she'd revoke the RoA and he only took issue with the fact that Meredith was going to perform a search of the tower for no legitimate reason.

She had no probable cause to do so.

He was refusing to let her search. why would he do that if the circle was not tainted and he was not hiding something? This is the same wacko who killed a couple of mages to become a Harvester.

Also Meredith has been waiting to do teh rite for awhile, the Chantry bang was her excuse to do it, and Orsino did not help the matter being a blood mage, helping blood mages and keeping a killer in hiding.

[Xilizhra]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Irrelevant. The templars are worse.

Does this make Stalin a good guy?

It means that Operation Barbarossa was unequivocally evil.

[Mr.House]

jlb524 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I still find it funny how he keeps on saying there is no corruption in the circle yet at the end of the game, he proves Meredith, while a nutcase, was right.

*claps* Good job Orsino.

Actually, that happened outside the Circle.

http://forum.gaijinp...47&d=1308157953

Those mages and Templars where part of the Circle, not counting what Orsino has kept secret and the other blood mages in the circle. There is a reason why he got defensive when Meredith wanted to search. If he knew the mages where inocent and he had nothing to hide, he would have let Meredith do her search instead of causing a scene. I'm still not convinced he even has a personality. He's just a crappy, non dev character that makes no sense.

[Xilizhra]

There is a reason why he got defensive when Meredith wanted to search.

That being that he wants to limit what Meredith can get away with.

[TJPags]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

He never once said the Circle wasn't corrupt. He said he'd help the Knight Commander look for blood mages if she'd revoke the RoA and he only took issue with the fact that Meredith was going to perform a search of the tower for no legitimate reason.

She had no probable cause to do so.

If he agreed the Circle might be corrupt - and some members certainly were, including him - the he should have no problem helping her find the corruption, no?  Unless he had something to hide - which he did.

Look, I'm willing to go with the "Orsino was poorly written" line here, but honestly, we KNOW there are blood mages in the Gallows.  We KNOW there are things to look into there.  And I'm not even trying to condemn every mage here.  But we know that SOME, at least, are blood mages.

There's reason to check.  And reason for him to resist that check.  His cry of "I'll help you look" just smacks of desperation.

[jlb524]

Mr.House wrote...

Those mages and Templars where part of the Circle, not counting what Orsino has kept secret and the other blood mages in the circle. There is a reason why he got defensive when Meredith wanted to search. If he knew the mages where inocent and he had nothing to hide, he would have let Meredith do her search instead of causing a scene. I'm still not convinced he even has a personality. He's just a crappy, non dev character that makes no sense.

I interpreted his initial refusual as standing up to Meredith's unfair demands but he finally agreed to let her search the Circle after she called the RoA.

[Mr.House]

Xilizhra wrote...

There is a reason why he got defensive when Meredith wanted to search.

That being that he wants to limit what Meredith can get away with.

Meredith just had a little stunt with mages, blood mages and Templars trying to overthrow her. She has all the right to do an investagation on the Circle, no matter that she is is crazy.

[Xilizhra]

Mr.House wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

There is a reason why he got defensive when Meredith wanted to search.

That being that he wants to limit what Meredith can get away with.

Meredith just had a little stunt with mages, blood mages and Templars trying to overthrow her. She has all the right to do an investagation on the Circle, no matter that she is is crazy.

If so, why did she try to keep Elthina from interfering?

[Mr.House]

jlb524 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Those mages and Templars where part of the Circle, not counting what Orsino has kept secret and the other blood mages in the circle. There is a reason why he got defensive when Meredith wanted to search. If he knew the mages where inocent and he had nothing to hide, he would have let Meredith do her search instead of causing a scene. I'm still not convinced he even has a personality. He's just a crappy, non dev character that makes no sense.

I interpreted his initial refusual as standing up to Meredith's unfair demands but he finally agreed to let her search the Circle after she called the RoA.

He does it because he is scared. The only person who could stop the RoA was just blowen to bits, he knows that Meredith now has all the power, he just didn't expect that she had always plan to do the RoA for awhile. Even a Hawke who helps the mages does not fully stop the Rite, it still happens and alot of damage is done with many people dead. Why do you think Orsino is pissed off at Anders?

[DRTJR]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Irrelevant. The templars are worse.

Does this make Stalin a good
guy?

No it's just the evil we vilify less. But Orsino for his faults is
not evil [But Anders is]. 

The boss battle is there because you need to fight
him because they don't want orsino walking around and they thought it was anticlimactic
to have a templar kill him in a cutsceen so BOSS BATTLE! Orsino In my head cannon
died a noble death at the hands of a templar after the final wave and gave
hawke his stave while their was an orchestral swell. 

[TEWR]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I still find it funny how he keeps on saying there is no corruption in the circle yet at the end of the game, he proves Meredith, while a nutcase, was right.

*claps* Good job Orsino.

That is pretty much the whole point of the situation in the endgame. Many does have a hard time accepying that they were fools for trusting Orsino though.

Oh please. The game -- and more specifically the endgame -- wasn't morally grey and that's what Bioware was aiming for it seems. Bioware failed to characterize Orsino or Meredith properly and then have them turn on us in such a gloriously idiotic fashion that I can barely stomach the game.

[Mr.House]

Xilizhra wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

There is a reason why he got defensive when Meredith wanted to search.

That being that he wants to limit what Meredith can get away with.

Meredith just had a little stunt with mages, blood mages and Templars trying to overthrow her. She has all the right to do an investagation on the Circle, no matter that she is is crazy.

If so, why did she try to keep Elthina from interfering?

Who's to say what goes on in that nutcases head, but as I see it, she has all the right to do a search and Orsino should have let her, unless he was scared she would find something.