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[Heimdall]

lobi wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

lobi wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

@lobi

The Gallows had always been occupied by beings filled with despair and fear. Never before had it been filled with hundreds of mages terrified for their lives. That was Meredith and the Templar's doing. You do know those mages in the cave were not from Kirkwall, right? I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. Are you trying to take some dig at Thrask? Define your position. Thrask didn't know they were slavers any more than his daughter did.

What an odd question, Perhaps I should ask you not to feign ignorance. Consider your argument in relation to the chronological order of events. Why do you not comment when reminded that Thrask's conversations with Feynrials mother are before the death of Thrasks daughter?  

I am not, I'm asking what it is you're trying to prove with Thrask.  I'd ask for clarity before continuing on a line of argument with no coherent point I have seen.

As to your question, he explains it to you.  He felt guilty about his daughter running away.

Am I having a dig at thrask? Yes. I say that Thrask's honesty has always been questionable. He is as much an example of corruption among the Templars as is Samson. Hardly surprising that they team up. Both use the issue of mage freedom as a smokescreen for their real agenda.
One Drugs, the other Fear, and both share a deep hatred of Meredith for shaking them out of their comfort zone when she was promoted.
Thrasks lie's mask his cowardice in virtue. At least Samson is honest about his motives and recants when confronted with necromancy. Thrask only recants when confronted with Hawks blade. You cannot take what Thrask say's as any more truthful or his actions more virtuous than the those of the Disgraced Guard Captain. He is a coward that knows that while those he leads astray face death he only faces the sack. I guess Grace crazy as she was, saw through him. Justice was served.

Alright, we're making progress.  Now the you've clarified to me that you've derailed the argument from a discussion of Meredith and the Gallows during the Right of Annulment to a side character.  Right.

Grace was a psychopath that wouldn't listen to reason who murdered Thrask in petty rage.  Thrask sees (Parts of) both sides of the equation, which was why he his his daughter from the circle in the first place.  However, as Bethany herself came around to, the lot of an apostate is no great paradise either and very dangerous.  If Thrask fears it is because of Meredith's unnecesarilly draconian rule making a bad situation worse, an extremely valid fear.  If Thrask fears, it is for the safety of innocent Mages like his daughter.  When he believed the safest place was the circle, he advocated that, when Meredith turned that idea on its head, he tried to make the circle safe again by removing Meredith.  He wanted this so badly it blinded his better judgment temporarily and the blood magic came up.  Though that didn't last long after he started to see it in action and realize that Grace and the others would not settle for only removing Meredith, but desire to remove the very system he believes in.  I have yet to see where he was dishonest.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 26 octobre 2011 - 05:38 .

[Heimdall]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Alain wasn't a known blood mage. In fact he was known to have rejected blood magic and turned himself in.

Even in Act 3 when he uses blood magic?

I don't doubt he knew of the ritual and studied blood magic academically. Practicing is another matter.

Considering the blood mage scrolls, he's certainly amazing if he didn't need to do anything which the scrolls imply is necessary.

does he actually use blood magic in Act 3?  Aside from releasing the prisoner?  I'm not sure that would truly count.  That's undoing a blood magic spell, not casting one.

Necesary for what, precisely?

[BubbleDncr]

Yea, I hope a dev comes in and explains a bit more about Orsino for us.

I loved Orsino when he first showed up. Thought he was awesome. A true bamf. And since I liked him so much, and was a mage, I went pro-mage at the end, and what they did with him...really made no sense.

*Hawke easily defeats the waves of templar attacking the gallows*
Orsino: "It's hopeless!"
Hawke: "Um, I'm kind of winning here."
Orsino: "I'm gonna proove Meredith right and resort to blood magic! AND ATTACK YOU!!!!"

Yea...kinda lost my respect for the character then.

As much as I hate siding with Meredith (and how doing so makes no sense unless your Hawke is also crazy or flat out hates mages), I have to say the templar ending makes the most sense. And doesn't completely ruin Orsino's character because then, he actually IS loosing.

[SkittlesKat96]

Orsino seems like an okay person that just wants mage freedom but has dabbled into a lot of blood magic and the more harsher/powerful sides of magic. I think if it weren't for Meredith and the Templar's oppression there wouldn't be anything wrong with him (maybe.)

Its probably not wise to assume things though I guess. What he did was pretty bad (cowarding out. I wish there was a way we could have convinced him not to.)

[lobi]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Alright, we're making progress.  Now the you've clarified to me that you've derailed the argument from a discussion of Meredith and the Gallows during the Right of Annulment to a side character.  Right.

Grace was a psychopath that wouldn't listen to reason who murdered Thrask in petty rage.  Thrask sees (Parts of) both sides of the equation, which was why he his his daughter from the circle in the first place.  However, as Bethany herself came around to, the lot of an apostate is no great paradise either and very dangerous.  If Thrask fears it is because of Meredith's unnecesarilly draconian rule making a bad situation worse, an extremely valid fear.  If Thrask fears, it is for the safety of innocent Mages like his daughter.  When he believed the safest place was the circle, he advocated that, when Meredith turned that idea on its head, he tried to make the circle safe again by removing Meredith.  He wanted this so badly it blinded his better judgment temporarily and the blood magic came up.  Though that didn't last long after he started to see it in action and realize that Grace and the others would not settle for only removing Meredith, but desire to remove the very system he believes in.  I have yet to see where he was dishonest.

Actually it was you that wanted to elaborate on the Thrask comments. Why you would need reminding of this when it is in the text you have been writing worries me a little. Evasion of reponsibility seems to be the theme you have adopted for this thread so, I will let it slide.
Grace seemed pretty lucid to me, she wanted Hawk dead and the oppourtunity she had been waiting for had arrived. Thrask got in the way by trying to back out like the coward he was and she gave him the traitors death he deserved.

Why is Thrask's daughter an Innocent mage? Can you provide any proof of this (sound familiar?). She was an apostate who surrended to a demon. Feeling threatened is not reason enough to sacrifice ones humanity and put any unfortunate that crosses her path in mortal danger. She would have been better off tranquil and less dangerous to others. Lucky Hawk happened along at the right time and slew the beast before it got loose and started killing real innocents.
Did Thrask really think aligning with blood mages and necromancers and kidnapping the relatives of prominant Kirkwallers was the way to protect innocent mages.  The whole innocent mages thing was no more than a way undermine Meredith and end her much needed reforms of the Templar Order in Kirkwall. The fact he resorted to such corrupt practices only proves that such reforms were sorely needed.
Perhaps Thrask's motives did contain a measure of guilt about his daughter, but how do you reconcile his "If I was stronger she would be in the circle" with Helping blood mages escape and raising the bloody dead (anders lol). He knew they were bloodmages when Hawk came out of the cave and said 'Here are your Bloodmages". 
I doubt his daughter was anything more than a political anecdote to gain mage trust. Did he even care enough to acknowledge her as his daughter officially?
I saw Thrask as a bad Templar, a horrible person and a worse threat than the mages he was supposed to contain. Why anyone would think this trecherous worm is deserving of sympathy is beyond me.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Why are people attributing eiditic memory to Orsino? Is it because that him being a blood mage "by accident" is more tolerable than the truth?

[DKJaigen]

lobi wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Alright, we're making progress.  Now the you've clarified to me that you've derailed the argument from a discussion of Meredith and the Gallows during the Right of Annulment to a side character.  Right.

Grace was a psychopath that wouldn't listen to reason who murdered Thrask in petty rage.  Thrask sees (Parts of) both sides of the equation, which was why he his his daughter from the circle in the first place.  However, as Bethany herself came around to, the lot of an apostate is no great paradise either and very dangerous.  If Thrask fears it is because of Meredith's unnecesarilly draconian rule making a bad situation worse, an extremely valid fear.  If Thrask fears, it is for the safety of innocent Mages like his daughter.  When he believed the safest place was the circle, he advocated that, when Meredith turned that idea on its head, he tried to make the circle safe again by removing Meredith.  He wanted this so badly it blinded his better judgment temporarily and the blood magic came up.  Though that didn't last long after he started to see it in action and realize that Grace and the others would not settle for only removing Meredith, but desire to remove the very system he believes in.  I have yet to see where he was dishonest.

Actually it was you that wanted to elaborate on the Thrask comments. Why you would need reminding of this when it is in the text you have been writing worries me a little. Evasion of reponsibility seems to be the theme you have adopted for this thread so, I will let it slide.
Grace seemed pretty lucid to me, she wanted Hawk dead and the oppourtunity she had been waiting for had arrived. Thrask got in the way by trying to back out like the coward he was and she gave him the traitors death he deserved.

Why is Thrask's daughter an Innocent mage? Can you provide any proof of this (sound familiar?). She was an apostate who surrended to a demon. Feeling threatened is not reason enough to sacrifice ones humanity and put any unfortunate that crosses her path in mortal danger. She would have been better off tranquil and less dangerous to others. Lucky Hawk happened along at the right time and slew the beast before it got loose and started killing real innocents.
Did Thrask really think aligning with blood mages and necromancers and kidnapping the relatives of prominant Kirkwallers was the way to protect innocent mages.  The whole innocent mages thing was no more than a way undermine Meredith and end her much needed reforms of the Templar Order in Kirkwall. The fact he resorted to such corrupt practices only proves that such reforms were sorely needed.
Perhaps Thrask's motives did contain a measure of guilt about his daughter, but how do you reconcile his "If I was stronger she would be in the circle" with Helping blood mages escape and raising the bloody dead (anders lol). He knew they were bloodmages when Hawk came out of the cave and said 'Here are your Bloodmages". 
I doubt his daughter was anything more than a political anecdote to gain mage trust. Did he even care enough to acknowledge her as his daughter officially?
I saw Thrask as a bad Templar, a horrible person and a worse threat than the mages he was supposed to contain. Why anyone would think this trecherous worm is deserving of sympathy is beyond me.

He messed up thats true but his  intensions are at the right place. And he is right you know. Meredith causes all kinds of chaos within kirkwal and needed to be removed.

[DKJaigen]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Why are people attributing eiditic memory to Orsino? Is it because that him being a blood mage "by accident" is more tolerable than the truth?

The thruth is he is a bloodmage but i dont care about it. He uses bloodmagic for the right reasons but it backfires. Seriously is everyone in kirkwall incompetent?

[Heimdall]

lobi wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

Alright, we're making progress.  Now the you've clarified to me that you've derailed the argument from a discussion of Meredith and the Gallows during the Right of Annulment to a side character.  Right.

Grace was a psychopath that wouldn't listen to reason who murdered Thrask in petty rage.  Thrask sees (Parts of) both sides of the equation, which was why he his his daughter from the circle in the first place.  However, as Bethany herself came around to, the lot of an apostate is no great paradise either and very dangerous.  If Thrask fears it is because of Meredith's unnecesarilly draconian rule making a bad situation worse, an extremely valid fear.  If Thrask fears, it is for the safety of innocent Mages like his daughter.  When he believed the safest place was the circle, he advocated that, when Meredith turned that idea on its head, he tried to make the circle safe again by removing Meredith.  He wanted this so badly it blinded his better judgment temporarily and the blood magic came up.  Though that didn't last long after he started to see it in action and realize that Grace and the others would not settle for only removing Meredith, but desire to remove the very system he believes in.  I have yet to see where he was dishonest.

Actually it was you that wanted to elaborate on the Thrask comments. Why you would need reminding of this when it is in the text you have been writing worries me a little. Evasion of reponsibility seems to be the theme you have adopted for this thread so, I will let it slide.
Grace seemed pretty lucid to me, she wanted Hawk dead and the oppourtunity she had been waiting for had arrived. Thrask got in the way by trying to back out like the coward he was and she gave him the traitors death he deserved.

Why is Thrask's daughter an Innocent mage? Can you provide any proof of this (sound familiar?). She was an apostate who surrended to a demon. Feeling threatened is not reason enough to sacrifice ones humanity and put any unfortunate that crosses her path in mortal danger. She would have been better off tranquil and less dangerous to others. Lucky Hawk happened along at the right time and slew the beast before it got loose and started killing real innocents.
Did Thrask really think aligning with blood mages and necromancers and kidnapping the relatives of prominant Kirkwallers was the way to protect innocent mages.  The whole innocent mages thing was no more than a way undermine Meredith and end her much needed reforms of the Templar Order in Kirkwall. The fact he resorted to such corrupt practices only proves that such reforms were sorely needed.
Perhaps Thrask's motives did contain a measure of guilt about his daughter, but how do you reconcile his "If I was stronger she would be in the circle" with Helping blood mages escape and raising the bloody dead (anders lol). He knew they were bloodmages when Hawk came out of the cave and said 'Here are your Bloodmages". 
I doubt his daughter was anything more than a political anecdote to gain mage trust. Did he even care enough to acknowledge her as his daughter officially?
I saw Thrask as a bad Templar, a horrible person and a worse threat than the mages he was supposed to contain. Why anyone would think this trecherous worm is deserving of sympathy is beyond me.

  I failed to see why Thrask had any relevence to the conversation, I wanted you to elaborate because It didn't make any sense for ou to be brining him up.  I still do not.

I have no interest in discussing Thrask and whatever dark motivations you insist on seeing.  Thrask was foolish for consorting with blood mages and necromancers, not malicious.

Good day

[Heimdall]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Why are people attributing eiditic memory to Orsino? Is it because that him being a blood mage "by accident" is more tolerable than the truth?

Because it does not make any grain of sense for him to deny it at that moment.  So we believe he was telling the truth, as lying served no purpose.

[Sons of Horus]

Lord Aesir wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Why are people attributing eiditic memory to Orsino? Is it because that him being a blood mage "by accident" is more tolerable than the truth?

Because it does not make any grain of sense for him to deny it at that moment.  So we believe he was telling the truth, as lying served no purpose.

You could make the case that he is a pathological liar as well though using the same line of reasoning.

Modifié par Sons of Horus, 26 octobre 2011 - 12:09 .

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

I actually wonder if it’s not part of the First Enchanter’s job to understand and perhaps even know Blood Magic. In theory he or she is the guardian of the Circle and is responsible for finding and rooting out Blood Mages just as much as Knight Commander. In DA:O it’s pretty clear that there are actual books on blood magic theory at the very minimum available to many mages until First Enchanter Iving finally acts to restrict them. Would a competent First Enchanter never crack open those kinds of tomes to understand what he is supposed to be up against? Orsino, as First Enchanter, should have had a very strong grasp of how Blood Magic works. I don’t feel the need to grant him eidetic memory.

He is consistently portrayed as being somewhat out of touch … frequently doesn’t know what his own people are doing, tries to stir up the nobility when that’s clearly not smart, etc. His other great flaw is that he himself is too bound up in the conflict with Meredith to take a step back and think rationally about what some of the mages under his care are doing when he’s actually faced with that. He’s taken a side long before the Champion arrives in Kirkwall and he’s fully committed to it; so much so that cognitive dissonance forces him to dismiss unhappy truths about his charges and some of his own actions. He’s not insane, but he is an extremist in his own way.

I’ve also got to say that I’ve been in situations that are perhaps a ghost of an echo of what he’s portrayed as being up against. I’ve been involved in office politics where one group is working actively to undermine another. At that point the group being undermined frequently is tempted to fight anything the first group is doing just because they understand that ultimately even the innocent sounding efforts are going to be used against them. That’s how I see Orsino’s refusal to let Meredith search the tower. It’s not so much that he’s worried she will find evidence … it’s just that he understands that whether or not she finds anything that’s it’s not going to satisfy her and that the whole exercise is her looking for excuses to do what she really wants anyway, to annul the circle. He’s fighting that the best way he can think of. Frankly by that point Meredith could find one of Varric’s novels that happens to have a blood mage villain in it and cite that book as reason to annul the circle. She’s that far gone in Orsino’s mind.

I do feel that making him into a “boss battle” for gameplay reasons was ridiculous RP wise and a true betrayal of his character if Hawk supports the mages. Sure I can see an Orsino who watches all of his mages die to a Hawk siding with the Templars becoming a Harvester … but not an Orsino who is watching Hawk winning while defending the mages which is exactly what actually happens in on screen if you support him. As others have said that was a bad call and frankly the writing that supports it happening in game is just as poor as the decision to make him a battle was.

I’ll give folks the Grace / Thrask stuff. Most of that whole plot is senseless and poorly written.

[TEWR]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Why are people attributing eiditic memory to Orsino? Is it because that him being a blood mage "by accident" is more tolerable than the truth?

1) As far as I know, I'm the only person who's ever attributed eidetic memory to Orsino, because it adds a little depth to his character and makes how he could remember a complex and irreversible ritual make a little more sense.

2) There's no denying he was an academic blood mage who studied the theories and concepts regarding it, but he was never a practicing blood mage up until that one absurd moment. I would think that YOU of all people would know that difference considering that was the same point you made on discussions regarding Adralla

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 26 octobre 2011 - 02:09 .

[Gabey5]

bioware just threw in thatharvester boss battle. it was out of place

[TEWR]

Gabey5 wrote...

bioware just threw in thatharvester boss battle. it was out of place

I know. That infuriates me. They wanted to reuse the Harvester when there were at least 3 other ways they could've had the Harvester pop up without killing off Orsino.

I mean hell, we saw 40 of them (unfortunately) after Amgarrak. Why couldn't one of them have just randomly popped up in the Gallows and killed some mook mages and Templars and turned them into the Golem body?

[LobselVith8]

lobi wrote...

Cruelty hate and terror for countless years and then suddenly it's all merediths fault? Sure lets just ignore that whole mages in a cave incedent and the fact that hawk was bringing news to Thrask of his daughters death. He tracked her to the warehouse and left her there. Alive. With slavers. Fenryal quest is before this even happens so nyah.

Meredith is a dictator with a death squad, and her top templars ("cronies," accoding to Thrask) range from rapists to torturers.

Also, why do you keep claiming that Ser Thrask abandoned his daughter Olivia? Accoding to Samson, he (Samson) helped Feynriel meet Captain Reiner - the same person who he provided to Thrask's daughter Olivia thinking that he would help mages escape Kirkwall, but he tells Hawke that he heard things went south (which is why Hawke can threaten Samson). There's no indication that Thrask abandoned his daughter, who he clearly loved. Given Thrask's request for Hawke to aid him with the Starkhaven mages and prevent a bloodbath, I don't see why you think so little of Thrask. According to the letter from Thrask's daughter, she was leaving because she felt she was a burden on her father. Her letter reads:

"Father,

I know the sacrifices you've made to conceal my secret, but I am a child no longer. I cannot burden you my whole life, lest my secret destroy us both. I must live my own life as a woman... and as a mage. It is oddly freeing to write the word.

Farewell, Father. I hope one day you make peace between what you have been taught and what you have seen.

All my love,

Olivia"

Olivia left of her own accord. There's no evidence Thrask found her and abandoned her, and it seems to dismiss the kind of character he actually was to even think he would consider that when he's willing to protect complete strangers who are mages. The fact that Thrask found his daughter's dead body and laments her death shows me that he loved her. 

lobi wrote...

Am I having a dig at thrask? Yes. I say that Thrask's honesty has always been questionable. He is as much an example of corruption among the Templars as is Samson. Hardly surprising that they team up. Both use the issue of mage freedom as a smokescreen for their real agenda.

Thrask wanted to protect mages from a rapist like Ser Kerras, while Samson handled a letter for a mage and lost his occupation as a templar because of it. Thrask later wants to remove Meredith from her position as a dictator over the city-state of Kirkwall, while Samson is crippled by his addiction to lyrium from his days as a templar.

lobi wrote...

One Drugs, the other Fear, and both share a deep hatred of Meredith for shaking them out of their comfort zone when she was promoted.

Thrask tried to get templars and mages to work side by side, without fear, while Meredith became a despot and ruled over mages and non-mages alike.

lobi wrote...

Thrasks lie's mask his cowardice in virtue. At least Samson is honest about his motives and recants when confronted with necromancy. Thrask only recants when confronted with Hawks blade. You cannot take what Thrask say's as any more truthful or his actions more virtuous than the those of the Disgraced Guard Captain. He is a coward that knows that while those he leads astray face death he only faces the sack. 

Thrask is a coward because he wanted to remove a dictator, or because he got mages and templars to work in unison? I have trouble taking your argument seriously.

lobi wrote...

I guess Grace crazy as she was, saw through him. Justice was served.

Grace was another insane and stupid mage antagonist among virtually every other insane and stupid mage antagonist, with the exception of one mage: Decimus. One mage antagonist, in the entire game, who doesn't fall to becoming an insane and stupid buffoon.

[dragonflight288]

Granted, Bioware did admit they made a mistake by going overboard with the mages because they felt too many people sided with the mages out of default in Origins (and considering how heated these debates get sometimes, I sense they succeeded admirably.)

[TheCreeper]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Granted, Bioware did admit they made a mistake by going overboard with the mages because they felt too many people sided with the mages out of default in Origins (and considering how heated these debates get sometimes, I sense they succeeded admirably.)

Which is weird because there are totally valid reasons for siding with Templars in Origins while siding with Meredith and the Templars in DAII always struck me as questionable at best.

[dragonflight288]

Weird to me too. I don't see every mage as innocent of the situation in Kirkwall like I don't see every templar as guilty. The problem is ultimately that at the time Meredith is forcing the issue on Hawke, there is no actual evidence that the Circle is corrupt. The rebellion organized by Thrask was put down, all the leaders were dead or deserted (Kerran if you play it that way, becomes a mercenary in front of the Hanged man.) The mage who destroyed the Chantry was an apostate, and Cullen acknowledges his apostate status, and implies knowing Merrill is one as well (calling Anders one of Hawke's known apostate companions.) So I find it difficult to believe Meredith didn't know he was an apostate as well.

The Circle didn't do this, Orsino admits it before the Right of Annulment is officially called, and Meredith isn't listening.

In my mind, in Origins there was no real reason to annul the circle then (okay, there were big reasons, but no consequences if we didn't) so most players didn't annul the circle because they kill all the blood mages and there aren't any negative consequences if we don't...say an abomination popping out and killing apprentices. And in DA2, any reason whatsoever there may have been to annul the Circle were already taken care of and removed before the Right is called, and all we have is one megalomaniac who had been consolidating power throughout the entire game saying it was necessary without offering any proof.

[KJandrew]

See I could have accepted the Orsino pro-mage boss battle if they had at least shown that despite Hawke's best efforts the mages were still getting overrun and slaughtered rather than him just have a gross overreaction to another wave of templars arriving.

[Gervaise]

Part of the problem is they make you do the mage supporter in reverse. In the Templar run through, you don't encounter Orsino until right at the end, so effectively Hawke and Meredith have worked their way through the Gallows, slaughtering mages on the way, until they reach the place he has elected to make his final stand. Now if you had followed the same route as a mage supporter, then conceivably you could have arrived too late to stop him going crazy with grief and despair. It is the fact that you are there with him from the moment the attack begins that makes it seem ridiculous, plus the cut scene where there are mages just waiting in the courtyard to be killed as though they had no idea that Meredith was on her way - she told Orsino to prepare his people but he seemed to have done a pretty poor job of it. And he must have had a crystal ball to know what was going on down there, plus a teleportation spell to bring them to where he was.

What they should have done was make Orsino say to you, go round the prison and alert the other mages, I'll meet you in the hall. Then you could have a series of fights, rather like in the city, where you are fighting with the mages against the Templars, instead of the other way round. Instead, once you have protected that initial bunch, plus killed Orsino, there are no more mages to protect (since the ones in that other room are mind controlling blood mages). You are simply running around killing Templars for the sake of it (plus some abomination and demons).

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

bioware just threw in thatharvester boss battle. it was out of place

I know. That infuriates me. They wanted to reuse the Harvester when there were at least 3 other ways they could've had the Harvester pop up without killing off Orsino.

I mean hell, we saw 40 of them (unfortunately) after Amgarrak. Why couldn't one of them have just randomly popped up in the Gallows and killed some mook mages and Templars and turned them into the Golem body?

I'm also saying that you MUST make a deal with a demon to become a true blood mage. Adralla didn't neccesarily (we can't know), but since Orsino actually used blood magic, he must've done so.

[dragonflight288]

It's never proven in-game that a deal with a demon is a MUST to learn it. There's enough lore to suggest otherwise that demons aren't the source of blood magic.

Granted, there's more than enough evidence that suggests mages turning to demons to learn blood magic as the most convenient source of knowledge.

[TheCreeper]

There are books that can teach blood magic according to Awakening.

[dragonflight288]

Jowan learned by books.