344 réponses à ce sujet

[AtreiyaN7]

meiwow2 wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

I honestly can't believe that someone could be this obtuse...no one is saying that the ME3 AI should be some kind of clone of the GOW3 AI. What people are saying is that the way in which the AI was handled in GoW 3 is something that can be studied and learned from.

And I'm saying no it isn't, I'm being honest here. The whole fight here is about these guys not having someone like me opose the idea of injecting more gow into ME sort of speak and so they call me things like ignorant for having that opinion.

And at this point, I'm going to agree with them that you're being completely irrational and/or ignorant since no one is saying to inject more GoW into ME. But feel free to insist that every action game is dumb and that one can't possibly learn anything from an example of good AI.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 25 septembre 2011 - 06:20 .

[Soul Cool]

meiwow2 wrote...
And why do you think that smart guy? or are you just attacking a dumb shooter hater?

"You see this game? It's called Gears of War 3, and it has good AI. I like good AI in video games where AI is on my side. You know that game Mass Effect 2? The AI was mediocre. Not terrible, but definitely not good. If possible, I would like ME 3 to have better AI because good squadmate AI is obviously possible. Just look at Gears of War 3, they are obviously doing something right with their AI. Not saying that you have to copy them exactly, but better AI in Mass Effect 3 will make the game better for my entertainment experience, and that cannot be a bad thing, surely."

[Kail Ashton]

NERD FIGHT! NERD FIGHT! NERD FIGHT!

Pocket protectors are get'n messed up in dis thread, awwwwww snap!

[AtreiyaN7]

A couple of pages ago, I have to admit that I started thinking it was trolling.

[Soul Cool]

Kail Ashton wrote...

NERD FIGHT! NERD FIGHT! NERD FIGHT!

Pocket protectors are get'n messed up in dis thread, awwwwww snap!

You just reminded me of Weird Al. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

[Mr.House]

meiwow2 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

meiwow2 wrote...

@LeVaughnX
I don't care how good gow's ai is, you don't just take something you like from a game and put it into another, that's not how it works.

You can't be serious. That is how it works and has worked for over 30 years.

Maybe for the people who like games like gow and cod, not for the rest of the world. That's my point.

I like Gears and Halo. I enjoyed Gears 3 and Halo Reach more then Mass Crap 2. It's called having an opinion, it's not stupid or invalid. So stop trolling. ME is already taking things from Gears, so improving the AI and making it similar to Gears 3 so the gameplay iws more enjoyable is not a bad thing at all.

[meiwow2]

Soul Cool wrote...

meiwow2 wrote...
And why do you think that smart guy? or are you just attacking a dumb shooter hater?

"You see this game? It's called Gears of War 3, and it has good AI. I like good AI in video games where AI is on my side. You know that game Mass Effect 2? The AI was mediocre. Not terrible, but definitely not good. If possible, I would like ME 3 to have better AI because good squadmate AI is obviously possible. Just look at Gears of War 3, they are obviously doing something right with their AI. Not saying that you have to copy them exactly, but better AI in Mass Effect 3 will make the game better for my entertainment experience, and that cannot be a bad thing, surely."

Ok fine, you know this thing called time that developers have to make their games? it's not unlimited, so I don't want them using that "limited time" they have and spending it making the game more suited to gow lovers. Hopefully that's a more clear point of view.

[Mr.House]

meiwow2 wrote...

Soul Cool wrote...

meiwow2 wrote...
And why do you think that smart guy? or are you just attacking a dumb shooter hater?

"You see this game? It's called Gears of War 3, and it has good AI. I like good AI in video games where AI is on my side. You know that game Mass Effect 2? The AI was mediocre. Not terrible, but definitely not good. If possible, I would like ME 3 to have better AI because good squadmate AI is obviously possible. Just look at Gears of War 3, they are obviously doing something right with their AI. Not saying that you have to copy them exactly, but better AI in Mass Effect 3 will make the game better for my entertainment experience, and that cannot be a bad thing, surely."

Ok fine, you know this thing called time that developers have to make their games? it's not unlimited, so I don't want them using that "limited time" they have and spending it making the game more suited to gow lovers. Hopefully that's a more clear point of view.

Having smart AI that works and makes the game more enjoyable is pandering to the Gear lovers?

[Kail Ashton]

Soul Cool wrote...

Kail Ashton wrote...

NERD FIGHT! NERD FIGHT! NERD FIGHT!

Pocket protectors are get'n messed up in dis thread, awwwwww snap!

You just reminded me of Weird Al. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

I dare to be stupid

[Soul Cool]

meiwow2 wrote...
Ok fine, you know this thing called time that developers have to make their games? it's not unlimited, so I don't want them using that "limited time" they have and spending it making the game more suited to gow lovers. Hopefully that's a more clear point of view.

It doesn't have to be about Gears of War. Gears of War is completely and utterly irrelevant to what I'm saying. It is an example of good AI in a video game. You can replace it with any video game ever with good AI. The point is that good AI is good for Mass Effect 3, because Mass Effect 2 was obviously weak in that are and it could use improvement to make the game more enjoyable.

[AdmiralCheez]

meiwow2 wrote...

Ok fine, you know this thing called time that developers have to make their games? it's not unlimited, so I don't want them using that "limited time" they have and spending it making the game more suited to gow lovers. Hopefully that's a more clear point of view.

So you want Garrus to continue to jump clear into enemy fire as often as possible and get his stupid turian ass shot?

Or for your snipers/squishy people to constantly charge forward while your shotgunners/tanks hang out in the back of the room?

Listen.  You may not care much about the combat, but when it's a CORE ELEMENT of gameplay, let's not just brush it off, okay?

Because not all of us bum through it on casual just to get to the next cutscene.

[Stanley Woo]

Let's keep the personal attacks out of the discussion, please. Wanting a certain feature in a game to be more like the same feature in a different game is not unreasonable. The unreasonableness comes when demanding the feature be similar/identical (as if there's only one standard way of developing games) or in attacking someone for holding a dissenting opinion.

[Genshie]

Seems to me all you people who are complaining about the A.I. probably had a really hard time on Insanity settings of ME2. I am sorry to say this but this has been said and shown in tons of other GoW3 vids that the A.I. seems to be doing a little too good in GoW3. I personally don't want my squadies to be doing all the work for me it beats the purpose of me actually doing something if the A.I. on my side is that many times better at it than I. No thanks, I actually like a decent challenge. I wouldn't be playing a RPG action game other wise. Seems that none of you guys have even tried the demo either and since I have I can say that you guys are worrying way too much about it.

Note Added: Also its really hard to actually die even on the hardest setting of the campaigin mode in GoW3 playing solo since the A.I. is that good at picking you up when get downed. You pretty much have to stay in the exact same spot where you were downed to die.

Modifié par Genshie, 25 septembre 2011 - 06:36 .

[didymos1120]

meiwow2 wrote...

Ok fine, you know this thing called time that developers have to make their games? it's not unlimited, so I don't want them using that "limited time" they have and spending it making the game more suited to gow lovers. Hopefully that's a more clear point of view.

It has nothing to do with being a "GoW lover". I've never played even one single, solitary second of GoW....ever. And yet I can understand that it's simply about having better squadmate AI.  So why is this concept so difficult for you to grasp?

[Terror_K]

Personally I think the issue isn't so much that the team is looking to other TPS games to improve factors, but more the way they are doing it. Now, I'm not entirely sure what the story is going to be when it comes to ME3 since I haven't played it yet, but many off the issues I had with ME2 and its gameplay wasn't so much the fact that BioWare looked to Gears and other shooters for inspiration and to help iron out some of ME1's gameplay issues, but the fact that the changes they made didn't feel properly adapted to a game that is supposed to be an RPG at its heart.

Yes... I know... the game isn't a pure RPG, and is more of an action RPG. Some would say a hybrid, but I maintain it only really became that when ME2 came along. Nonetheless, the basic point is this: when designing ME2's combat and basic gameplay the developers turned off the RPG (something they admitted to), then seemed to pull in a whole bunch of TPS factors and pretty much port them directly into ME2, then they (sort of) turned the RPG bits back on... kind of. To a limited degree. A very limited degree.

Anyway, the issue I feel is that rather than looking to these games for inspiration and then going, "Okay, now how can we properly adapt them to suit an RPG system?" they simply ported them rather than properly adapting them and changing them to suit the RPG aspects of the game. It's a bit like whenever a console game gets ported to PC or visa versa and it's essentially a straight-up port that doesn't really take any advantage of the difference in hardware or controls... that's kind of what the TPS factors feel like to me in ME2: a direct porting of certain aspects from another genre that haven't been properly adapted to suit Mass Effect's RPG nature. The combat and RPG aspects just never seemed to gel well with ME2, almost like a body rejecting an organ. IMO of course.

[SandTrout]

didymos1120 wrote...

It has nothing to do with being a "GoW lover". I've never played even one single, solitary second of GoW....ever. And yet I can understand that it's simply about having better squadmate AI.  So why is this concept so difficult for you to grasp?

Because it makes sense?

[littlezack]

meiwow2 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

meiwow2 wrote...

@LeVaughnX
I don't care how good gow's ai is, you don't just take something you like from a game and put it into another, that's not how it works.

You can't be serious. That is how it works and has worked for over 30 years.

Maybe for the people who like games li]ke gow and cod, not for the rest of the world. That's my point.[

Videogames have borrowed ideas from other videogames since videogames began, more or less. It's not a new concept.

[meiwow2]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

meiwow2 wrote...

Ok fine, you know this thing called time that developers have to make their games? it's not unlimited, so I don't want them using that "limited time" they have and spending it making the game more suited to gow lovers. Hopefully that's a more clear point of view.

So you want Garrus to continue to jump clear into enemy fire as often as possible and get his stupid turian ass shot?

Or for your snipers/squishy people to constantly charge forward while your shotgunners/tanks hang out in the back of the room?

Listen.  You may not care much about the combat, but when it's a CORE ELEMENT of gameplay, let's not just brush it off, okay?

Because not all of us bum through it on casual just to get to the next cutscene.

Lol.. don't be an extremist. I don't disagree that they should improve the ai but at the same time I say we shouldn't expect gow quality ai on an rpg/action hybrid game.

Modifié par meiwow2, 25 septembre 2011 - 06:37 .

[Biotic Sage]

meiwow2 wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...

meiwow2 wrote...

Ok fine, you know this thing called time that developers have to make their games? it's not unlimited, so I don't want them using that "limited time" they have and spending it making the game more suited to gow lovers. Hopefully that's a more clear point of view.

So you want Garrus to continue to jump clear into enemy fire as often as possible and get his stupid turian ass shot?

Or for your snipers/squishy people to constantly charge forward while your shotgunners/tanks hang out in the back of the room?

Listen.  You may not care much about the combat, but when it's a CORE ELEMENT of gameplay, let's not just brush it off, okay?

Because not all of us bum through it on casual just to get to the next cutscene.

Lol.. don't be an extremist. I don't disagree that they should improve the ai but at the same time I say we shouldn't expect gow quality ai on an rpg/action hybrid game.

I don't think the good people at Bioware hold themselves to the same low level of expectation that you do.  I get what you're saying, but believe me, they take pride in their work, and they have even outright stated that they want the action/gameplay in ME3 to be on par with the best 3rd person shooters out there.  So I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect them to achieve their goals.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 25 septembre 2011 - 06:41 .

[Genshie]

jreezy wrote...

meiwow2 wrote...
Lol.. don't be an extremist. I don't disagree that they should improve the ai but at the same time I say we shouldn't expect gow quality ai on an rpg/action hybrid game.

Why not?

The ME games have more than just run and gun gameplay in it. Simple. The developers are doing and focusing on way more than just the action portion of the game compared to the developers of GoW3. In GoW you never had to make a choice that could change the portion of a story of the game.

[AtreiyaN7]

Genshie wrote...

Seems to me all you people who are complaining about the A.I. probably had a really hard time on Insanity settings of ME2. I am sorry to say this but this has been said and shown in tons of other GoW3 vids that the A.I. seems to be doing a little too good in GoW3. I personally don't want my squadies to be doing all the work for me it beats the purpose of me actually doing something if the A.I. on my side is that many times better at it than I. No thanks, I actually like a decent challenge. I wouldn't be playing a RPG action game other wise. Seems that none of you guys have even tried the demo either and since I have I can say that you guys are worrying way too much about it.

Note Added: Also its really hard to actually die even on the hardest setting of the campaigin mode in GoW3 playing solo since the A.I. is that good at picking you up when get downed. You pretty much have to stay in the exact same spot where you were downed to die.

Wrong - I usually play just about ever game on hard at some point, including Insanity in ME. This isn't about not being able to hack it or wanting easy-mode. It's about expecting the AI to NOT be incompetent. There's a middle ground between having your squadmates do everything and having to wipe the drool from their mouths because they can't manage to do that themselves.

[Biotic Sage]

Genshie wrote...

jreezy wrote...

meiwow2 wrote...
Lol.. don't be an extremist. I don't disagree that they should improve the ai but at the same time I say we shouldn't expect gow quality ai on an rpg/action hybrid game.

Why not?

The ME games have more than just run and gun gameplay in it. Simple. The developers are doing and focusing on way more than just the action portion of the game compared to the developers of GoW3. In GoW you never had to make a choice that could change the portion of a story of the game.

Bioware's goal is to have ME3 be great in both departments.  They have that expectation of themselves, so we as consumers should have the same expectation.

[AdmiralCheez]

meiwow2 wrote...

Lol.. don't be an extremist. I don't disagree that they should improve the ai but at the same time I say we shouldn't expect gow quality ai on a half rpg game.

Well, duh.  Gears is largely a one-trick pony, so if it doesn't do that trick incredibly well, it's screwed.

But my point was that some of us actually enjoy the shooter elements.  I'm a huuuuge fan of the story and characters, but I've become the kind of gal who cranks the difficulty up to insanity and raises hell with flashbangs and headshots.

You seem to be operating under the impression that ME3 isn't allowed to embrace its shooter side because that would somehow dumb it down.  I disagree; you can still have a sweeping epic with a lovable cast and mountains and mountains of immersion and customization and whatnot ALONG WITH seriously awesome gunplay.

Honestly.  I can like guns and still be smart and sensitive.  Promise.