20 réponses à ce sujet

[C Barchuk]

Just wondering if there is anyone out there that doesn't like using this mod? I know its an odd question considering the fact that I think it is one of the more well written mods out there. I guess the reason I ask is the more I use this mod the more mixed feelings I get about it. In vanilla only swashbucklers can get 3 pips in dual wielding. The RR lets all thieves get 3 pips. I've always felt that this was a great thing. But now the swashbucker doesn't seem as unique to me since I can play any thief kit and also dual wield effectively. I'm currently trying out the bounty hunter. Its working great but I kind of miss the special traps of the vanilla version for some reason. I also did a run through with the assassin which is definitely improved except for the poison ability which is nerfed quite a bit in the RR version. I think its a staple ability of the assassin so I'm kind of missing the vanilla version of that as well. Its weird. Sorry for the rant. I'm just now finding myself wanting to just play the game as it was designed. I love the RR mod but I'm actually thinking of uninstalling it or parts of it at least. Call me crazy I know...lol.

Modifié par C Barchuk, 25 septembre 2011 - 04:31 .

[Grond0]

I didn't like it. In addition to points you've already mentioned I really didn't like the treatment of pickpocketing. I agree that the penalties for being caught in the vanilla game were too great, but the mod totally reverses that. In RR the thief can talk himself out of a pickpocketing charge up to several times (depending on stats and reputation) with every single individual. I think it would have made more sense to give this opportunity for the game as a whole, or possibly for each area.

[AnonymousHero]

I haven't ever tried it - the changes are too radical for my tastes. Removing the thrown/maze traps from the Bounty Hunter is, I think, what made me decide to never install it.

(I suppose one could go without the thief changes... but I'm not sure I like the Bard changes either. If those are removed, then there's not really much point to installing the mod.)

[C Barchuk]

Yea I never got around to trying the bard changes yet. Part of me keeps saying I need to play the vanilla versions before adding mods that change start changing the classes around and such. Of course you can install any individual component that you want which is a plus but, like A H said, if you don't use most of the mod then what's the point. I really have nothing bad to say about this great mod. I just think I need to play it as is more. I'm not sure what me brought me to this epiphany...lol. Anyhow, I was just curious if others out there thought the same way about this mod or even others where they started out loving it but then the honeymoon phase of it wore off.

[jaxsbudgie]

I like it, and it's always a staple mod in my mod installation.
But I agree about the Swashbuckler changes, didn't they get rid of their damage bonuses per level too? Which does hurt quite a lot, they just become Thieves can can put two points into weapons and can't backstab. They should definitely have more bonuses, the Assassin and Bounty Hunter kits have a wealth of bonuses.
I like the Bard changes though, the Skald song is much better and I like the changes to the Bard HLA's because before they just seemed a bit cheesy.

[Mana Garn]

 dont see the problem, swashbuckler basically get 3p in DW, fighter THAC0 and some of the fighter HLA while still getting the same thieving skill point as a normal rogue at the price of backstabbing. Hoh and counting the armor bonus and his xtra weapon point.
Bounty hunter seem more in line with what a bounty hunter really his, well for me. While the throwing trap never made any sense. Its not a trap anymore its a grenade.
Anyway do whatever you want, its your game. If you dont like it your not forced to use it. 

[AnonymousHero]

Bounty hunter seem more in line with what a bounty hunter really his, well for me. While the throwing trap never made any sense. Its not a trap anymore its a grenade.

It's not so much a matter of 'theme' (or what have you) for me. It's that the thrown maze traps are an interesting mechanic since they let you separate enemies in time rather than space. Removing that seems... strange.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

The existence of that seems strange, since it obviously is magic, while the thief class is... not. Yes, I agree that most of the new abilities are a bit weaker than the original ones - few things can top the power of Time Trap and Maze trap. But most people will agree that they were kind of overpowered, turning any battle with the option to lay them into a triviality. (that's not to say there weren't any other fail-safe legal ways of winning battles, just that this was one of them, and one of the least work-intensive ones).

[C Barchuk]

I have never played the original bounty hunter and after looking at it briefly, it does look more interesting and more powerful. So far the only RR modded class I've played extensively is the assassin which is better and worse than the vanilla version in my opinion. My assassin now has 3 pips in dual wielding which I like and seems very cool. At the same time I find it odd that my assassin is fighting in melee outside of backstabbing. With the vanilla version you would backstab and then immediately get the heck out of melee and start throwing darts with poison. Now, cause I can, I just stay and fight like a some kind of fighter/thief. The new assassin loses the +1 bonus to THACO and Dmg which I think sucks to some extent since thief THACO isn't that great to begin with. Maybe its not really a big deal. I dunno. Poison got the nerf bat for sure. Now the target has to fail the save in order to be poisoned. The poison damage scales but it only goes as high as 20 I believe. The vanilla poison ability was much stronger. Lastly, assassins do get death attack which I really like and it works against many enemies that are immune to backstab which is cool. But most of the time, the enemy makes the save. Just my 2 cents. So the new assassin is better overall, but I might just get rid of the whole full dual wielding thing and leave that for the swashbuckler and fighter/thieves. It just seems to fit them more.

Modifié par C Barchuk, 25 septembre 2011 - 08:21 .

[ncknck]

Anything with words "unnerfed" "rebalanced" "original" "PnP" "restored" = bad unbalanced stuff.




time trap overpowered, huh? Thats like the most useless trap ever.

Modifié par ncknck, 25 septembre 2011 - 10:16 .

[C Barchuk]

Well yea the mod does try to make things more like PnP. I didn't realize that's a bad thing.

[AnonymousHero]

ncknck wrote...
time trap overpowered, huh? Thats like the most useless trap ever.

That depends on the user of said trap.

[ncknck]

AnonymousHero wrote...

That depends on the user of said trap.

There is no reason to take more than 1 time trap, just for entertainment purposes, compare that to the actually overpowered one, the spike trap. Remember, not only does time trap deal zero damage, but buffs continue to run off, so it is actually a party debuff, hehe.

[AnonymousHero]

ncknck wrote...

AnonymousHero wrote...

That depends on the user of said trap.

There is no reason to take more than 1 time trap, just for entertainment purposes, compare that to the actually overpowered one, the spike trap. Remember, not only does time trap deal zero damage, but buffs continue to run off, so it is actually a party debuff, hehe.

You're not being imaginative enough. Time traps don't suffer from 'overkill' in that they will let you kill multiple enemies even if you place them all in the same spot -- they trigger 'in sequence' rather than all at once (which spike traps do). You can use this to decimate whole groups of enemies while being completely invulnerable yourself -- if that isn't powerful I don't know what is.

I'm not disputing that Spike traps may be "more powerful" (whatever that means) in some sense, but that doesn't mean that Time trap is "useless".

[ncknck]

The original point was that time trap is "overpowered" and in need of nerfing. I dont consider HLA spam as such. Same can be said just about every other HLA. spam spike traps and everybody is just as dead. Bsides, many peeps are prebuffed on load, and same would apply to a tactical retreat tactic, mobs would already have their stoneskins up. So time trap is a very very very situational thing, for an encounter which can be solved by other ways too, w/o the need for several HLA's just for that one time thing. Me thinks, no?

[Humanoid_Taifun]

So long as you can see the opponent, have automatic hits and Carsomyr, there is no such things as buffs on the enemy. The only buff that could protect them for a short while at this point is PfMW - but only if for some reason they cast it before seeing the enemy.
Of course, the (repeated) combination of Maze Trap/Spike Trap is more impressive - but the Spike Trap itself is a mere damage dealer here and could be replaced by other stuff - the Maze Trap is what actually seals the deal.
I'm not saying Spike Trap isn't overpowered. It is. 5 Spike Traps placed well can kill just about everything. I just think that Time and Maze Trap are even more powerful, if you know how to make use of their effects, same has how Improved Alacrity is the most powerful spell in the game and can be a total game breaker, but only if you have the right equipment.

[C Barchuk]

What did you guys think of the assassins death attack ability? Now I personally did like that quite a bit. Didn't work that often due the target making its save but I like the concept.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

I don't like save or else high level abilities (not meaning HLAs, but any ability requiring a high level). They feel sort of pointless. If they had some proper penalties to the saving throw, like the IMoD does, then it might be something different.

[C Barchuk]

Well it does have penalties towards the death save the higher in you level you go. I think by level 40, target takes a -3 against its death save. But I still, it rarely worked which I guess is good since it would be a tad overpowered I think. At the same time you don't even need to be in stealth to use it. You just walk right up to the target and its an automatic hit and crit. If target fails their save, they're dead. So it's pretty cool but seems a bit redundant, in a way, to backstab.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

I don't consider a -3 a proper penalty to a high level saving throw. It is likely possible to combine several effects (Greater Malison, Blindness etc) to make this ability halfway reliable), but most of the time it's just not worth it.
A single critical might be it's own reward if fewer of the stronger opponents had helmets (pretty much every boss has one), and if your effective THAC0 wasn't sufficient at that point - which it usually is.

I just checked with the IMoD, and it's penalty (-4) is smaller than I remembered.

Edit: Is it possible to activate that ability and maintain invisibility?

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 26 septembre 2011 - 06:37 .

[C Barchuk]

Yep. It also will go straight through a mages stoneskin or whatever protections they have up.

Modifié par C Barchuk, 27 septembre 2011 - 12:42 .