108 réponses à ce sujet

[Sorcy73]

I also found myself wanting to put Hespith out of her misery, was a shame she just disappears.



I remember walking into that tunnel for the first time...it was about 4am, I had headphones on and I'd had little sleep from being so hooked on the game. At first I thought I'd lost the plot but when I realized the rhyme actually was in the game not my head it helped a tad. Not much though! Definitely has my 'most creepy game moment' vote.

[The Angry One]

By the way, Ogres are from Qunari Broodmothers, yes?

How creepy is that? I mean, in the sense that the Qunari keep their women firmly in civilian roles and they are never seen outside of their homelands, so a Qunari female would never confront a Darkspawn in battle.

So the Darkspawn can go deep into Qunari territory and raid them too? Nobody's safe I tell you, nobody!

[Sarethus]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yes Branka felt anti-climactic. She is very detestable. And it shopuldn't have been this way. They should have shown a Branka that has some regret in her, that is trying to justify her actions more amiably. Instead she doesn't show a hint of regret.

A great person can make sacrifices. But a great person should not underestimate what he / she sacrificed.

I personally ended up supporting Branka because I thought the anvil was too valuable to be destroyed. But Branka remains the most detestable person in the game and it's a shame really. They could have made her a more complex individual. Willing to make mecessary sacrifices, but being torn by them.

Disagree here. We have Loghain to partially fill that role. A story can feel cliched if every villain is a crazy/remorseless/sociopath but it can also feel cliched if every villain has a "reason" for their actions. Its better that there is a mix between the two. A few pure crazy villains and a few villains with reasons behind them.   

[Heldenbrand]

There's simply no way for the Grey Wardens to completely annihilate the darkspawn. Remember the cut scene when they walk through the Dead Trenches? The Archdemon merely unifies the darkspawn into an attack upon the surface, otherwise all those countless darkspawn haunt the Deep Roads. And while the game made the Deep Roads feel 'small' it's also a huge expanse.



Then there are the thousands of real world considerations for marching to make war against the darkspawn. Supply trains that would be incredibly taxed, mass armored units would not be able to travel effectively, ranged weapons would also be limited, no cavalry, frustrating formations and you would be on enemy territory.



Fighting underground isn't feasible, the dwarves manage it due to centuries of experience.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Heldenbrand wrote...

There's simply no way for the Grey Wardens to completely annihilate the darkspawn. Remember the cut scene when they walk through the Dead Trenches? The Archdemon merely unifies the darkspawn into an attack upon the surface, otherwise all those countless darkspawn haunt the Deep Roads. And while the game made the Deep Roads feel 'small' it's also a huge expanse.

Then there are the thousands of real world considerations for marching to make war against the darkspawn. Supply trains that would be incredibly taxed, mass armored units would not be able to travel effectively, ranged weapons would also be limited, no cavalry, frustrating formations and you would be on enemy territory.

Fighting underground isn't feasible, the dwarves manage it due to centuries of experience.

Potentially, surgical strikes on the brood mothers could eventually trim the horde to a more managable size if you could find some way to cut the flow of female prisoners to the brood chambers.

To fully annihilate the darkspawn, though, you'd need something like an army of men who don't sleep, don't eat, don't get tired, and are made of metal or stone so that the darkspawn can't possibly taint them...

[EatinMcRib]

All the creepyness was almost ruined when I found the easter egg codex entry right after that monologue.

[Korva]

I don't get disturbed easily in games, but the whole sequence with Hespith and the broodmother really left me feeling sick. It's definitely ... intense, and by far the "darkest" part of the game that I have seen -- no contest, not even from the origin of the golems. For me, though, it's intense in a bad way. Everything involving rape is just too close to home. I guess it's "realistic" that as usual in any violent conflict, the women have the worst fate. But it really isn't something I want to see in my games.

Though I have to admit it's really well-crafted, the suspense, Hespith's voice, her eyes, the disgusting fleshy growths, and then the broodmother appearing right after Hespith said the word. Plus, it was easily the hardest fight I've had so far, harder than the high dragon.

But I have to say, the whole sequence was "ruined" by two things. One, the lack of closure with Hespith -- if anyone ever deserved to be put out of her misery, it's her. And two, the complete silence of the companions. That's a general severe point of criticism I have with this game. Reactions to the broodmother? Zip. Reactions to the video that plays when you enter the Dead Trenches? Zip. Reactions to the revelation of Maric's bastard son? Zip. And so on, and so on ... Really a big letdown. These scenes scream for the NPCs to say something, do something.

[Lughsan35]

Korva wrote...

I don't get disturbed easily in games, but the whole sequence with Hespith and the broodmother really left me feeling sick. It's definitely ... intense, and by far the "darkest" part of the game that I have seen -- no contest, not even from the origin of the golems. For me, though, it's intense in a bad way. Everything involving rape is just too close to home. I guess it's "realistic" that as usual in any violent conflict, the women have the worst fate. But it really isn't something I want to see in my games.

Though I have to admit it's really well-crafted, the suspense, Hespith's voice, her eyes, the disgusting fleshy growths, and then the broodmother appearing right after Hespith said the word. Plus, it was easily the hardest fight I've had so far, harder than the high dragon.

But I have to say, the whole sequence was "ruined" by two things. One, the lack of closure with Hespith -- if anyone ever deserved to be put out of her misery, it's her. And two, the complete silence of the companions. That's a general severe point of criticism I have with this game. Reactions to the broodmother? Zip. Reactions to the video that plays when you enter the Dead Trenches? Zip. Reactions to the revelation of Maric's bastard son? Zip. And so on, and so on ... Really a big letdown. These scenes scream for the NPCs to say something, do something.

Really? REALLY? The correct reasoning response is silence...or a simple Well that's Horrible sounding...

Anything else would be granstanding and inhuman...

You want real world examples ...Daschau... the soldiers there went about the business of helping those there withour many words escaping thier lips..

Did the camp masters deserve horrible deaths ? Definitely.  Did the soldiers simper and moan about wanting to do unto them the most horrible of punishements? Definitely not.  Its not manly or appropriate to BELITTLE the survivors pain.

[Korva]

"Manliness" is meaningless to me.

I'm not expecting grand speeches for everything that happens in the game. But I do expect SOME sort of reaction, something appropriate for each companion in every situation. Even silent horror, a stare of pure terror, or running off to puke in a corner would be a noticeable reaction. Instead, the companions may as well not be there at all. You're telling me that the sight of a broodmother or the archdemon itself would evoke nothing at all?

[swirlwind]

I agree with Korva when it comes to the lack of reaction. Even if the moment for it came afterwards, in the camp or something. I for one wanted to talk about seeing the Archdemon in the Dead Trenches with Alistair, but instead we had a talk about the dream we had, after coming back from the Deep Roads? Quite disappointing. I mean, we actually saw the Archdemon in the flesh, and all Alistair can talk about is the dream where he thought the dragon saw us... Bad continuity.

All in all, I hoped for more discussion with NPCs about what was taking place in the game. I loved the background stories and the NPC missions, but the gravity of the current situation seemed underwhelming when no one had anything to say about it.

Back to the actual topic, I do feel the Broodmother is the most creepy and atmospheric encounter in the game. I do wish they hadn't spoiled it by showing it before the game came out, but even though they did, the first time I encountered her was spectacularly horrific. Especially since my main PC was female and could relate to the true horror. I think it will be even harder for the female Grey Wardens to face their fate in the Deep Roads once the news spreads...

Modifié par swirlwind, 25 novembre 2009 - 11:26 .

[Count Viceroy]

Yes the lack of response from your party to some events was disapointing, but you can't have everything right? the amount of dialog in this game is pretty staggering as it is.

[swirlwind]

Count Viceroy wrote...

Yes the lack of response from your party to some events was disapointing, but you can't have everything right? the amount of dialog in this game is pretty staggering as it is.

Of course. I don't think it takes away from the game's greatness to point out room for improvement, though. I love that there is so much meaningful dialogue to be had, but NPC reactions to what is actually taking place in the game could still be improved.

[Count Viceroy]

swirlwind wrote...

Count Viceroy wrote...

Yes the lack of response from your party to some events was disapointing, but you can't have everything right? the amount of dialog in this game is pretty staggering as it is.

Of course. I don't think it takes away from the game's greatness to point out room for improvement, though. I love that there is so much meaningful dialogue to be had, but NPC reactions to what is actually taking place in the game could still be improved.

Of course, nothing is perfect. There's a lot of things they could improve upon. The love scenes in particular are cringe worthy. Also, Anora's speech before the charge on the city gates? I almost laughed myself to death. Alistair does the lines 1000 % better.

[FlintlockJazz]

The broodmother is indeed one of the best parts of the game, though as others have said due to the implications more than anything, and Hespith's poetry is awesome.



As to the burning of the nest after a blight. I kind of got the impression that it was done just as a means to clear out the last bits of a Blight, and to then carry on as before, Grey Wardens included, who do not seem to be concerned about the dwarfs either, otherwise why not keep a permanent Grey Warden presence in Orzammer from which they can launch strikes into Darkspawn territories in an attempt to learn more about their foes and attempt to reach the source? Might take centuries but they could learn stuff on the way.

[ComTrav]

The character arcs seem largely de-synced from the mission arcs, with a few exceptions. Once again, there's so much in the game already it's hard to criticize. Part of what makes this scene so effective is the voice acting of Hespith, and it's hard to imagine any other company spending so much effort on voice-over, especially for what is an essentially minor character.



If I could script ONE character's reaction to the Broodmother, it would be Sten. I want the most determined and stoic member of the group to freak out and lose it, and for the PC to literally smack sense into him.



That said, I think the people who say that there shouldn't be any immediate, flashy reaction have a point from a storytelling perspective. The quiet tone of the moment helps sell it.

[Count Viceroy]

ComTrav wrote...
That said, I think the people who say that there shouldn't be any immediate, flashy reaction have a point from a storytelling perspective. The quiet tone of the moment helps sell it.

Not totally unrelated but slightly offtopic. Is it just me or is our character shivering, as in shivering in fear after fighting swiftrunner the second time and being knocked down to the ground by witherfang? It looks so out of place. Perhaps it's just me imagining things but it's not something I picture my character doing.

[Akka le Vil]

Trooper Guy1 wrote...

The Deeps Roads in general was creepy. Just got worse once I got near the Broodmother.

The Deep Roads is the best part of the game, and it makes you realize just what the real deal is about.
It also makes the dwarves the real heroes of the world, I thought, and I felt a bit guilty asking them to come to the help of the surface pansies. Like "we're whining and crying and asking for help about something that has been your everyday's life for centuries and you were left alone to do it".

[Roynalf]

I loved that part and those whispers were so creepy. Best part at deep roads, everything else sucks at deep roads

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

Taritu wrote...

Oddly, what it made me think was that after the blight was done, the Grey Wardens needed to make a serious commitment to the Legion of the Dead, and start burning out Darkspawn nests rather than just saying "yay, we won" and waiting for the next blight.. And all women in both groups need to be given a simple way to commit suicide if captured.

I agree.

[Korva]

Akka le Vil wrote...

It also makes the dwarves the real heroes of the world, I thought, and I felt a bit guilty asking them to come to the help of the surface pansies. Like "we're whining and crying and asking for help about something that has been your everyday's life for centuries and you were left alone to do it".

Hell, yeah. Granted, during the time between Blights the darkspawn don't have an archdemon to direct them and are probably not as effective/organized ... but in terms of sheer numbers and never-ending horror it probably beats anything most surfacers could imagine. Lots of people here rag on the dwarves for their rigid traditions and murderous politics, and yes those things are bad and extremely stupid in the face of this enemy -- but if anything, it makes those dwarves who fight the darkspawn even more heroic and badass. I really want to play my own noble dwarf when I'm done with the human noble, but both are warriors and I may want to try another class next ...

[Malkut]

The Angry One wrote...

Anton de Staen wrote...

Is it just me, or is this why there aren't (almost) any female Wardens?

Doubtful, there seem to be plenty in other regions and in the past.
It's just a kind of quirk in the present I suppose. Besides a female warden would be more likely to die vs. darkspawn than a female soldier or civilian, which would be the preferable outcome, I suspect.

What the Codex has to say:

It is well-known that darkspawn carry off those captured in their
raids to underground lairs. most assume that the prisoners are eaten,
or somehow tainted and turned into darkspawn themselves, though this
could never account for the sheer numbers of the horde. Forays made by
Grey Wardens into the underground have uncovered the answer.

When exposed to the darkspawn taint, men are driven mad and
eventually die. Women, however, undergo great pain and gross mutations
that cause most of them to perish. Those that survive, however, become
the grotesque broodmothers. These giant, twisted behemoths birth many
darkspawn at a time; a single broodmother can create thousands of
darkspawn over the course of her lifetime. Each type of darkspawn is
born from a different broodmother: Humans produce hurlocks, dwarves
produce genlocks, elves give birth to shrieks, and from qunari are born
the ogres.

I assume that the Grey Wardens in question are the PC and Allistair, and that the organization itself does not know.  Given that few women become Wardens, fewer survive to old age, and most of them would die on a Darkspawn blade or of the taint, it's possible that no Warden has ever become a Broodmother.  Perhaps even likely.

Of course, it is also possible that a Grey Warden might have wandered into the Deep Roads only to vanish.  Those with her would assume she died; when, unbeknownst to the surface world, she was overcome by the taint, and the Darkspawn welcomed her with open arms, taking her into what would soon become a breeding chamber.

M'kay, I'm offically freaked out, now.

[cpip]

Malkut wrote...

Of course, it is also possible that a Grey Warden might have wandered into the Deep Roads only to vanish.  Those with her would assume she died; when, unbeknownst to the surface world, she was overcome by the taint, and the Darkspawn welcomed her with open arms, taking her into what would soon become a breeding chamber.

M'kay, I'm offically freaked out, now.

The only way it could be worse is if the Broodmothers retained their reasoning (and conversing) capacities -- which doesn't SEEM to be the case.

While the prospect of a Ghouled Warden is bad; the prospect of an intelligent Broodmother with a Warden's knowledge would be infinitely worse.

[Centaurette]

I think Bioware screwed up the logic - I just killed that thing, walked around. Where the hell is the vagina?! I mean those little tykes don't just burst out of her abdomen do they? They got to come out of somewhere?



hehe there you go Bioware - EAT THAT

[Herr Uhl]

Centaurette wrote...

I think Bioware screwed up the logic - I just killed that thing, walked around. Where the hell is the vagina?! I mean those little tykes don't just burst out of her abdomen do they? They got to come out of somewhere?

hehe there you go Bioware - EAT THAT

Who said that it was a mammal? Why not having eggs in that sack behind her seen on the concept art here: http://dragonage.bio...es/brood_mother

[RunCDFirst]

I feel kind of dumb, but what did Branka actually do? I haven't gone to Orzammar in my second playthrough yet, but from what I remember of my first run, she just led her house into darkspawn territory, essentially dooming them to be killed/captured by the darkspawn.



But surely her house knew that they stood little chance of surviving.