3434 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

D.Kain wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
You not getting it.....
They stay celibate so they can focus on god.They say away from the other sex or the sex they are attracted to so being celibate is easier for them.

Being celibate and being near as sex you are attacted to is hard. Staying away from that sex makes staying celibate easier.

Staying away from intimacy if it makes you happy is good, if you have something that makes you happy. If you want a happy life and you don't have a goal in seclusion, your life will be a lot harder and worse, without the OTHER things the world and friendship can provide.

Then your still not understanding. Intiamcy is not just sex....It's contact with other people. It's friendships. An AY has to say away from ot because it can lead to attraction.

It a case of ether being in the frying pan or in the fire. Being in the open with an AY condition mean saying away from people to reduce the burden of attraction. Say in the monistary mean imprisonment but no one to burden you with  attarction.
The only case that can make the burden of their condition better is isolation. Having "friends"just add people the AY can be attracted to.
As stated before, doing one thing whe your logical and level headed is on thing. Doing the same thing under the full burden of the conditon is another.

[BlueMagitek]

D.Kain wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

So the answer to that question is 0.  Not fallen prey to the hypnosis != surviving mind meld. 

...yes, harming Nef gives her power.  Now answer the question, how does that change how AY are treated?   Oh, wait, that's right, it doesn't.  Really?  That last kill gave her just enough power?  Uh huh.  I'm not sure the leap increase is as much as you suspect.  Now answer the question.

Yes, Morinth has targeted quite a few Asari.  Like a bunch of villagers who have nothing to do with how AY are treated.  So why isn't she after high ranking ones who can actually do something about the problem?

Oooh, she's justified, huh? 
You know, a dominoe pushes other dominoes down, right?  Because you're
so concerned with her, you're blinded to all the pain she's causing
everyone else.   Basically, Morinth has no
reason to be absolved of breaking your code and she's going to continue
to do so because you didn't stop her.  Good for you.

No, your
argument was that only someone who wasn't exposed to love and caring
would become such a dastardly person.  40 years doesn't go down the
drain in an instant.  She gave up any love and caring for her own desire. 

Evidence please.  And no, saying "This is what I would do in that situation!" is not evidence.  Once again, you're showing you have no idea what addiction is like.

Yes, it is a good reason to think Shepard would survive.

Every Nef made Morinth as strong as she is. It doesn't change how AY are treated YET. I don't know what comes next, we will see. For now she was just a lonely mage un the run, not Anders fightning for all mages.

I'm not blinded, she can stop doing that, and I can fix the issue at the heart and SHE can help me with that. It can be a big galactic thing, revealing AY to every spiecies and all, I don't even know where is the seclusion.

I had an addiction in my life, I said that before.

No, no it is not.  When there have been zero survivors at every past attempt, why would anyone assume another person would survive?  Hey, no one has survived decapitation, surely your strong willpower will keep you alive without a head.  No.  That isn't how it works.  Morinth has no reason to think otherwise.

No, Nef does not change the Asari idea at all.  Nef has no influence over the Asari whatsoever.  It doesn't change how they're treated at all!  If anything, it makes it worse.  Who in their right mind, after finding out about the AY and that one is loose, would say, 'hey, you shouldn't treat them like that, this is bad!'?  The proper response is 'keep those monsters locked up or just kill them off'.  She is not a mage, don't you dare compare her to an apostate (note, apostate, not malificar).

Uh huh.  Yes, I'm sure showing everyone that an AY, when not locked up, murders innocents left and right will really help your cause.  And you are blind.  Why the **** would anyone care about the AY?  They're killers and they're locked up for it.  The galaxy still has slavers running around, indentured servants, dirty politics and terrorist organizations running around.  Why care about an extreme minority that's already dealt with?   

Oh, and how does she stop melding?  This extremely addictive process that makes her stronger.  Where does she give any indication that she wants to stop when she offers to meld with you?

[D.Kain]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

That isn't worth a life. That's like saying letting soldiers practice their gun skills on civilians is okay because it's making the soldiers better able to defend their nation. It doesn't make ending a life morally right.

I will answer to this small one before I get to the big ones. 

What I meant is using her melding on those that need to be dealt with as a spectre.

[D.Kain]

dreman9999 wrote...
 Then your still not understanding. Intiamcy is not just sex....It's contact with other people. It's friendships. An AY has to say away from ot because it can lead to attraction.

It a case of ether being in the frying pan or in the fire. Being in the open with an AY condition mean saying away from people to reduce the burden of attraction. Say in the monistary mean imprisonment but no one to burden you with  attarction.
The only case that can make the burden of their condition better is isolation. Having "friends"just add people the AY can be attracted to.
As stated before, doing one thing whe your logical and level headed is on thing. Doing the same thing under the full burden of the conditon is another.

I understand that it would be easier for me to live with attraction and fightning it rather than exclude all the other interactions in my life, which would be a lot more difficult. I can't COMPLETELY get it without facing it, but I can atleast think of what is more important for me, I can make that choice.

[dreman9999]

D.Kain wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
 Then your still not understanding. Intiamcy is not just sex....It's contact with other people. It's friendships. An AY has to say away from ot because it can lead to attraction.

It a case of ether being in the frying pan or in the fire. Being in the open with an AY condition mean saying away from people to reduce the burden of attraction. Say in the monistary mean imprisonment but no one to burden you with  attarction.
The only case that can make the burden of their condition better is isolation. Having "friends"just add people the AY can be attracted to.
As stated before, doing one thing whe your logical and level headed is on thing. Doing the same thing under the full burden of the conditon is another.

I understand that it would be easier for me to live with attraction and fightning it rather than exclude all the other interactions in my life, which would be a lot more difficult. I can't COMPLETELY get it without facing it, but I can atleast think of what is more important for me, I can make that choice.

But the thing is what important for the person with an AY condition maybe dangerouse to someone else. When this attraction get to their worst and they don't want to kill anyone....Do you think they want tobe near anyone?

[D.Kain]

BlueMagitek wrote...

No, no it is not.  When there have been zero survivors at every past attempt, why would anyone assume another person would survive?  Hey, no one has survived decapitation, surely your strong willpower will keep you alive without a head.  No.  That isn't how it works.  Morinth has no reason to think otherwise.

No, Nef does not change the Asari idea at all.  Nef has no influence over the Asari whatsoever.  It doesn't change how they're treated at all!  If anything, it makes it worse.  Who in their right mind, after finding out about the AY and that one is loose, would say, 'hey, you shouldn't treat them like that, this is bad!'?  The proper response is 'keep those monsters locked up or just kill them off'.  She is not a mage, don't you dare compare her to an apostate (note, apostate, not malificar).

Uh huh.  Yes, I'm sure showing everyone that an AY, when not locked up, murders innocents left and right will really help your cause.  And you are blind.  Why the **** would anyone care about the AY?  They're killers and they're locked up for it.  The galaxy still has slavers running around, indentured servants, dirty politics and terrorist organizations running around.  Why care about an extreme minority that's already dealt with?   

Oh, and how does she stop melding?  This extremely addictive process that makes her stronger.  Where does she give any indication that she wants to stop when she offers to meld with you?

For you it's not a good reason, for me it is. I don't blame Morinth for that.

Nef was never meant to change the asari idea, she made Morinth capable to fight Samara. I am in the right mind and I like to grab the problem by the horns and I want to deal with issues like Nef by solving the AY problem with Morinth helping me, because I need her for that. Killing Morinth = out of sight out of mind. That is not a way out.

No, showing what AY do when they don't want to be locked up, and how they are hunted to their death.
Now the next statement boils my blood, so to say. If people DON"T care about AY, I am going to tell Morinth to have fun killing other people, because the people don't care. By then it is going to be a galactic thing, and everybody will know AY. They don't want to play nice and solve problems? Well then they can have their sh*t.

She stops melding by becoming a productive member of society and experiences pleasure. I already said 100 times why she wanted to meld with Shepard, it was not to get power, not to kill him, not to get high..

[D.Kain]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

That isn't worth a life. That's like saying letting soldiers practice their gun skills on civilians is okay because it's making the soldiers better able to defend their nation. It doesn't make ending a life morally right.

I will answer to this small one before I get to the big ones. 

What I meant is using her melding on those that need to be dealt with as a spectre.

That would have merit if she had done that before. In fact, if she had only killed "bad" people it would have made the choice between her and Samara much more "grey" and interesting, as someone else said. However, centuries of NOT doing this ultimately damns her.

She doesn't have the moral compass working right, we have to fix it. 

[D.Kain]

dreman9999 wrote...
But the thing is what important for the person with an AY condition maybe dangerouse to someone else. When this attraction get to their worst and they don't want to kill anyone....Do you think they want tobe near anyone?

And that is for THEM to decide, whether to kill their carring friend ( which they probably won't, oh and friend is going to know AY too, so they also have a choice ) or to go to seclusion by their own will, because they can't handle the presure, or hold themselves together, because they are strong enough.

Modifié par D.Kain, 04 octobre 2011 - 03:47 .

[dreman9999]

D.Kain wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
But the thing is what important for the person with an AY condition maybe dangerouse to someone else. When this attraction get to their worst and they don't want to kill anyone....Do you think they want tobe near anyone?

And that is for THEM to decide, whether to kill their carring friend ( which they probably won't, oh and friend is going to know AY too, so they also have a choice ) or to go to seclusion by their own will, because they can't handle the presure, or hold themselves together, because they are strong enough.

But so few people can be that strong. Why let then go though that pain when you can offer them some form of relief? You forget not everyone is that strong.....And it can easily end with a mess. This is not a race that just happen to have this condition happen now....They had been dealing with it before human history.....They seen ever case of what is to  happen. They already know what the bast case is. The monistary is not offer because the asari are selfish, it because they know all the outcomes that may happen. They just want to stop any needless death from happening.

Modifié par dreman9999, 04 octobre 2011 - 03:58 .

[BlueMagitek]

D.Kain wrote...

For you it's not a good reason, for me it is. I don't blame Morinth for that.

Nef was never meant to change the asari idea, she made Morinth capable to fight Samara. I am in the right mind and I like to grab the problem by the horns and I want to deal with issues like Nef by solving the AY problem with Morinth helping me, because I need her for that. Killing Morinth = out of sight out of mind. That is not a way out.

No, showing what AY do when they don't want to be locked up, and how they are hunted to their death.
Now the next statement boils my blood, so to say. If people DON"T care about AY, I am going to tell Morinth to have fun killing other people, because the people don't care. By then it is going to be a galactic thing, and everybody will know AY. They don't want to play nice and solve problems? Well then they can have their sh*t.

She stops melding by becoming a productive member of society and experiences pleasure. I already said 100 times why she wanted to meld with Shepard, it was not to get power, not to kill him, not to get high..

Then you're blind.  Perhaps Shepard should stuff himself in one of the Collector pods; sure, it's turned others to slushie, but surely someone like him would be immune.

Killing Morinth = Justice.  You keep going on and on about how justice for Morinth is so important, but you completely ignore her victims, attempt to justify them (Morinth needed the power so she can go on and keep killing, baaaaaw), or defame them.  Killing Samara does nothing for Nef or for Nef's mother or the village Morinth enslaved.  It doesn't prevent further victims from happening, if anything it ensures that more people will die. 

BS.  The galaxy is dealing with godlike machines, slavery, genocide and a host of other problems.  Who cares about a minority that is so extreme most people have no idea what they are outside of mythology?  They're already dealt with.
So you confirm that you are, in fact, a monster.  A monster who cares for nothing but his own ideas and **** everyone else because they don't think like you.  You sicken me. 

Your proof of this?  Because the only proof we have is Morinth wanting to meld with Shepard, which kind of goes along that she's still more than happy to meld (and therefore kill). 

[D.Kain]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Seeing as how her sisters did (have a "right" working moral compass), we know it has nothing to do with the fact of her being an AY. She CHOSE not to.

Her sisters are divine angels. I have no idea HOW they were ok with that, going through self destruction ( if of course they didn't like it) . I would admire them on my knees, but I'd rather get them out of there ( again if they would like that)

[D.Kain]

dreman9999 wrote...

But so few people can be that strong. Why letthen go though thatpain when you can offer them some form of relief. You forget not everyone is that strong.....And it can easilly end with a mess. This is not a race that jst happen to have this condition happen now....They had been dealing with it before human history.....They seen ever case of what happen. They already know what the base case is. The monistary is not offer because the asari are shelfish, it because they know all the outcoems that may happen. They just want to stop any needless death from happening.

But it's not only about being strong, it is about ones preferences, and WHAT is easier for who to do. They did a bad job before it seems, freedom is a start, from there you can make things better, removing freedom is a step backwards.

[D.Kain]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Then you're blind.  Perhaps Shepard should stuff himself in one of the Collector pods; sure, it's turned others to slushie, but surely someone like him would be immune.

Killing Morinth = Justice.  You keep going on and on about how justice for Morinth is so important, but you completely ignore her victims, attempt to justify them (Morinth needed the power so she can go on and keep killing, baaaaaw), or defame them.  Killing Samara does nothing for Nef or for Nef's mother or the village Morinth enslaved.  It doesn't prevent further victims from happening, if anything it ensures that more people will die. 

BS.  The galaxy is dealing with godlike machines, slavery, genocide and a host of other problems.  Who cares about a minority that is so extreme most people have no idea what they are outside of mythology?  They're already dealt with.
So you confirm that you are, in fact, a monster.  A monster who cares for nothing but his own ideas and **** everyone else because they don't think like you.  You sicken me. 

Your proof of this?  Because the only proof we have is Morinth wanting to meld with Shepard, which kind of goes along that she's still more than happy to meld (and therefore kill). 

First I didn't get into that pod. Second, if something good was at stake I would think about getting into that pod.

Killing Morinth is at best a half-assed justice. I already told you that Morinth herself is not the main issue, she can stop. Killing Samara is one of the steps to stop Morinth from killing people. And since Samara is one of those responsible for Morinth to start killing it is justice.

Galaxy has to solve all of it's problems, no matter the size. It's how it works - you don't fix the sink, you have water draining on the floor, you don't fix AY problem you have murders. I am not going to go into someones house and try to fix their sink when they tell me that they don't care about the sink. I care for people to treat each other good, I can't MAKE them do that, and if they don't want to do that it's their choice. I can always say that Morinth isn't MY problem in the first place, she is nice to me. If you want ME to fix the problem with Morinth you do what I say to fix it, or leave me alone and deal with it yourself. That's how it works.

Morinth does want to meld with Shepard, but she doesn't want to kill Shepard, she honestly believes he will survive, the proof for that is that Morinth wasn't written, stupid or suicidal.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Killing Morinth is no different from putting down a rabid dog. It's sad, but it's absolutely necessary.

Actually, it's less sad, because at least Morinth could have chosen to not be a constant danger to those around her.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 04 octobre 2011 - 04:10 .

[D.Kain]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Killing Morinth is no different from putting down a rabid dog. It's sad, but it's absolutely necessary.

Actually, it's less sad, because at least Morinth could have chosen to not be a constant danger to those around her.

It's not the same at all.

Modifié par D.Kain, 04 octobre 2011 - 04:14 .

[D.Kain]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Seeing as how her sisters did (have a "right" working moral compass), we know it has nothing to do with the fact of her being an AY. She CHOSE not to.

Her sisters are divine angels. I have no idea HOW they were ok with that, going through self destruction ( if of course they didn't like it) . I would admire them on my knees, but I'd rather get them out of there ( again if they would like that)

You say they are divine angels, but doesn't the codex state that they traditionally go into captivity like that?

ME wiki:

The turian shopkeep at the Zakera Cafe sells asari honey marinades. He says the marinades are created by sufferers of Ardat-Yakshi at a monastery.

Take the wiki for what you will, but it seems that most Ardat Yakshi go into the monastery. So, they are NOT angels. Morinth is the one who chose the misguided moral compass.

So it makes that much more angels, or AY that are afraid to be killed if they run. It doesn't change the fact that they are treated bad.

[dreman9999]

D.Kain wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But so few people can be that strong. Why letthen go though thatpain when you can offer them some form of relief. You forget not everyone is that strong.....And it can easilly end with a mess. This is not a race that jst happen to have this condition happen now....They had been dealing with it before human history.....They seen ever case of what happen. They already know what the base case is. The monistary is not offer because the asari are shelfish, it because they know all the outcoems that may happen. They just want to stop any needless death from happening.

But it's not only about being strong, it is about ones preferences, and WHAT is easier for who to do. They did a bad job before it seems, freedom is a start, from there you can make things better, removing freedom is a step backwards.

It's completely has to be ones strength. Why? Because one preference can change ...Especial in extreme events. A person could completely detest apples but if you leave them with out food and come back weeks later and put an apple in front of them...they will gabble it up due to being near starvation.
As I said, it's one thing to say and do something when your clear minded and logical...It's another to do it under a great burden.

[Killjoy Cutter]

They're given everything they can be given in the circumstances.

The ones who die are the ones who run and can't resist the rapemurdering. They leave a trail.

[dreman9999]

D.Kain wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Killing Morinth is no different from putting down a rabid dog. It's sad, but it's absolutely necessary.

Actually, it's less sad, because at least Morinth could have chosen to not be a constant danger to those around her.

It's not the same at all.

The only minor differenct is that the dog can't control themselve completly and loose all logical though, and Mornith still has control of her actions but it a complete addict.
Other then that it the same case.

[D.Kain]

dreman9999 wrote...

It's completely has to be ones strength. Why? Because one preference can change ...Especial in extreme events. A person could completely detest apples but if you leave them with out food and come back weeks later and put an apple in front of them...they will gabble it up due to being near starvation.
As I said, it's one thing to say and do something when your clear minded and logical...It's another to do it under a great burden.

Yes. But it doesn't change the fact that everybody should be free and deal with the problem how THEY see fit, having support and care and trust from the rest of the society helps.