3434 réponses à ce sujet

[PauseforEffect]

D.Kain wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

The whole "afraid to die" thing is YOUR interpretation. You can't say that that is automatically true, thus making Morinth more brave.

And remember, we're talking about her moral compass, not whether she was brave or not. I don't care how "brave" someone is, if they deliberately do wrong things for centuries, willfully choosing to do those wrong things, they deserve the consequences.

Live in seclusion or DIE. Why can't I say that again? I also said there are angels, but that is a different case. There is probably also some kind of rare AY people who just LOVE their existance alone maybe like 5%. 

If they do wrong things because they were put into a wrong situation, then you fix the situation and not put them down.

Many people are wronged on a daily basis. We do what we can about the situation as permitted.
It is not Shepard's problem to fix the AY situation.
Samara cannot fix the AY situation.
If there was a solution, there would be asari parents rushing to get their AY child treated immediately. All they can do is to mitigate the risk and lessen the chance that an AY child will actually kill someone and thus forfeit their life for it. For the ones who do kill and would kill again and again, they must be dealt with as you would a criminal who willfully harms others for personal gain.
Seclusion gives the AY the chance to keep their lives until a cure is found. It is not a perfect solution but it is what the situation permits for both sides.

[D.Kain]

PrimalEden wrote...

Many people are wronged on a daily basis. We do what we can about the situation as permitted.
It is not Shepard's problem to fix the AY situation.
Samara cannot fix the AY situation.
If there was a solution, there would be asari parents rushing to get their AY child treated immediately. All they can do is to mitigate the risk and lessen the chance that an AY child will actually kill someone and thus forfeit their life for it. For the ones who do kill and would kill again and again, they must be dealt with as you would a criminal who willfully harms others for personal gain.
Seclusion gives the AY the chance to keep their lives until a cure is found. It is not a perfect solution but it is what the situation permits for both sides.

Two bolded parts don't go together for me. If I deal with the problem, I don't do it half-assed. I either don't kill Morinth and let her go because she isn't my problem, or I try to solve the whole problem so she and other AY don't kill anymore. No third thing I am going to do sorry. She isn't my direct problem, she doesn't threaten my life and even helps me fight the reapers.

Modifié par D.Kain, 04 octobre 2011 - 05:12 .

[D.Kain]

jreezy wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

PrimalEden wrote...

Many people are wronged on a daily basis. We do what we can about the situation as permitted.
It is not Shepard's problem to fix the AY situation.
Samara cannot fix the AY situation.
If there was a solution, there would be asari parents rushing to get their AY child treated immediately. All they can do is to mitigate the risk and lessen the chance that an AY child will actually kill someone and thus forfeit their life for it. For the ones who do kill and would kill again and again, they must be dealt with as you would a criminal who willfully harms others for personal gain.
Seclusion gives the AY the chance to keep their lives until a cure is found. It is not a perfect solution but it is what the situation permits for both sides.

Two bolded parts don't go together for me. If I deal with the problem, I don't do it half-assed. I either don't kill Morinth and let her go because she isn't my problem, or I try to solve the whole problem so she and other AY don't kill anymore. No third thing I am going to do sorry.

There not supposed to go together. Morinth ceases to be just an Asari problem once she is loose in the galaxy. She represents injustice and if Shepard feels the need to deal with her then he/she has the right to do so.

She isn't my Shepards problem. She is nice to me, doesn't threaten my life, helps ME to fight the reapers. If she is a problem for other people and I must deal with her I will solve the problem as I see it.

[D.Kain]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

You're avoiding the topic. We're not talking about whether it is okay, we're talking about the response to the wrong activity. If a slave goes on a rampage and kills all of the "master" 's children, while eight other slaves remain doing their jobs, one can't say that the fact that he was enslaved caused him to kill the kids, because the other eight were in the same position and did NOT do the action. Same for Ardat Yakshi. Regardless of how wrong it is to lock them up, the fact that other Ardat Yakshi can live in seclusion tells us that the "wrong" situation does not drive them to do a wrong thing. The escaping AY choose the wrong thing for themselves.

That one slave didn't do a wrong thing, and neither did Morinth. But as I said the thing with her is probably her courage and love for freedom.

[D.Kain]

jreezy wrote...

D.Kain wrote...
She isn't my Shepards problem. She is nice to me, doesn't threaten my life, helps ME to fight the reapers. If she is a problem for other people and I must deal with her I will solve the problem as I see it.

It's obvious she's a problem for other people. You dealing with her how you see fit involves allowing her to live.

Yes it does. And I believe that it is one of the things that will help to solve the problem in general, so that nor she nor other AY like her kill more.

[D.Kain]

jreezy wrote...

It's not even just about right or wrong here. The keyword is "choice".

Yes, some choose to not change anything, some choose to change. What is the point of this right now? I'm a little off.

[PauseforEffect]

D.Kain wrote...

Two bolded parts don't go together for me. If I deal with the problem, I don't do it half-assed. I either don't kill Morinth and let her go because she isn't my problem, or I try to solve the whole problem so she and other AY don't kill anymore. No third thing I am going to do sorry. She isn't my direct problem, she doesn't threaten my life and even helps me fight the reapers.

As I said, the Ardat-Yakshi problem is not Shepard's to fix. It's too complicated to spend time on when Shepard needs to worry about the reapers. However, if Shepard wants help in stopping the reapers, the commander must be willing to either help Samara kill Morinth or take a risk and recruit Morinth for the job. It still does nothing for the AY in general.
My comment was intended for the AY situation. The Samara/Morinth situation is a whole different page.

[D.Kain]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

First I'm gonna say I'm utterly shocked that you think killing children is not "wrong." That's a disturbing, disturbing viewpoint.

And, jreezy has it right. Even if it isn't wrong, they chose to do it. Their environment did not cause it.

The environment provides us with choices. Each enviroment provides us with DIFFERENT choices in the first place.

Example would be: Morinth could choose between being a teacher or a doctor if she had a different life. 
Now she had a different life and has a choice of fight or succumb. 
With every available choice her character decides something.

Modifié par D.Kain, 04 octobre 2011 - 05:29 .

[D.Kain]

PrimalEden wrote...

As I said, the Ardat-Yakshi problem is not Shepard's to fix. It's too complicated to spend time on when Shepard needs to worry about the reapers. However, if Shepard wants help in stopping the reapers, the commander must be willing to either help Samara kill Morinth or take a risk and recruit Morinth for the job. It still does nothing for the AY in general.
My comment was intended for the AY situation. The Samara/Morinth situation is a whole different page.

Yes not giving a damn because Shepard is in a hurry is a solid point too. The thread is also about how Morinth/Samara can impact the reaper problem on a greater scale.

[dreman9999]

D.Kain wrote...

PrimalEden wrote...

Many people are wronged on a daily basis. We do what we can about the situation as permitted.
It is not Shepard's problem to fix the AY situation.
Samara cannot fix the AY situation.
If there was a solution, there would be asari parents rushing to get their AY child treated immediately. All they can do is to mitigate the risk and lessen the chance that an AY child will actually kill someone and thus forfeit their life for it. For the ones who do kill and would kill again and again, they must be dealt with as you would a criminal who willfully harms others for personal gain.
Seclusion gives the AY the chance to keep their lives until a cure is found. It is not a perfect solution but it is what the situation permits for both sides.

Two bolded parts don't go together for me. If I deal with the problem, I don't do it half-assed. I either don't kill Morinth and let her go because she isn't my problem, or I try to solve the whole problem so she and other AY don't kill anymore. No third thing I am going to do sorry. She isn't my direct problem, she doesn't threaten my life and even helps me fight the reapers.

But it's not Shepard's problem.....Hehas biggerthing to do....like stop the reapers. Being a spectre does not mean you solve every social issue.

[D.Kain]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Read my edit. You say now that she decides, yet you were saying before that the environment and "upbringing" and "unhappy childhood" caused Morinth two do her deeds.

Realise that Morinth would rather choose to be a teacher for example, but her enviroment didn't give her that choice. In other words was responsible for a completely different life. 

[D.Kain]

dreman9999 wrote...

But it's not Shepard's problem.....Hehas biggerthing to do....like stop the reapers. Being a spectre does not mean you solve every social issue.

No? Ok, Morinth welcome to the crew, and I don't care who you killed or what you are going to do next, right now I need you to help me deal with the reapers, after yo are not my problem. Done.

[dreman9999]

D.Kain wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

No matter how many time you say it. It doen not make it true....Mornoth is a sex addict.....All she want's is the sex. She does not careif Shepard live or dies as long as she gets the sex. She is just lying to you to get the sex.... She will say anything to get it.

You say this, game tells me something else. Who should I believe?

I'm sorry..The game tells you exactly that. Samara tells you that they dealt with AY from way before they stated star travel. This mean they have been dealing with them for years. Way before human history...The asari have been space traveling from aroung 600 bce....(That 600 bc for us.) that would mean they been dealing with the AY case for avery long time. They know all the case of it.

There is always an individual, they are different. I judge from having interactions with Morinth. And WTH are the AY anyway? You think they are just a random desiese that was going on for years and was always a problem? I can desagree on that. They had to live in the society when the society was still primitive, they were probably the evolutionary warriors that defended the tribe like warrior ants that are infertile or something. Nature doesn't just make up **** like that. THIS ofcourse my fanfiction the theory of which came from the Morinth fan thread. But the point is everybody should be free. There is never an excuse to lock anybody their DNA.

And mornith had her chance...She still killed people. They can offer all the AY freedom because one  out of many could handle it. What would you say to the morners of the lost.... "I'm sorry but we taught this AY could handle it. I guess we were wrong."
You have to consider everyones case in this.

[dreman9999]

D.Kain wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But it's not Shepard's problem.....Hehas biggerthing to do....like stop the reapers. Being a spectre does not mean you solve every social issue.

No? Ok, Morinth welcome to the crew, and I don't care who you killed or what you are going to do next, right now I need you to help me deal with the reapers, after yo are not my problem. Done.

As long that it's not his crew, it should be fine.

[PauseforEffect]

And in that choice, I'd rather have the rest of the team's backing than the promise of a manipulative serial killer whose real identity would jeopardize teammates' trust in Shepard.
How can a team trust Shepard if the commander's willing to replace a member at the cost of their life?

[D.Kain]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Read my edit. You say now that she decides, yet you were saying before that the environment and "upbringing" and "unhappy childhood" caused Morinth two do her deeds.

Realise that Morinth would rather choose to be a teacher for example, but her enviroment didn't give her that choice. In other words was responsible for a completely different life. 

For a different life, maybe, but certainly not responsible for her killing innocents like Nef.

Is responsible because different people by their nature make different choice. Somebody maybe like living in seclusion, Morinth didn't. That's the problem.

[D.Kain]

dreman9999 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

But it's not Shepard's problem.....Hehas biggerthing to do....like stop the reapers. Being a spectre does not mean you solve every social issue.

No? Ok, Morinth welcome to the crew, and I don't care who you killed or what you are going to do next, right now I need you to help me deal with the reapers, after yo are not my problem. Done.

As long that it's not his crew, it should be fine.

Didn't quite get this. Could you elaborate?

[AnAccountWithNoName]

D.Kain wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

You're avoiding the topic. We're not talking about whether it is okay, we're talking about the response to the wrong activity. If a slave goes on a rampage and kills all of the "master" 's children, while eight other slaves remain doing their jobs, one can't say that the fact that he was enslaved caused him to kill the kids, because the other eight were in the same position and did NOT do the action. Same for Ardat Yakshi. Regardless of how wrong it is to lock them up, the fact that other Ardat Yakshi can live in seclusion tells us that the "wrong" situation does not drive them to do a wrong thing. The escaping AY choose the wrong thing for themselves.

That one slave didn't do a wrong thing, and neither did Morinth. But as I said the thing with her is probably her courage and love for freedom.

Dude.....killing innocent children.....not cool.  It would be one thing if that slave killed a child soldier who had a gun trained on him, and only did it in self-defense.....but that is not the case in the example above.