3434 réponses à ce sujet

[D.Kain]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

So just to be perfectly clear, you're saying that if someone is a enslaved, it's OK for them to murder their "master's" children?  

Bull$#!+.  Complete and total bull$#!+. 

So HOW do you manage to call an opinon bullsh*t? It is clear, that's what I think - slavery is bad. Slaves are free to murder if they are being abused, will teach other slavers a lesson.

[D.Kain]

BlueMagitek wrote...

...And yet she still wants to meld with you.

Morinth can stop?  Since when?  Every source in the game claims that the condition is addicting and the only AY we know that don't go on killing sprees are imprisoned to be sure that they don't.  The melding gets more addictive each and every time, she's been doing it for four hundred years.  Why would she change?  And no, now that Samara isn't chasing her anymore, she has free reign to kill as much as she pleases.  She set herself up as a goddess to be worshiped and only left because Samara ruined her diabolical plans.  Why would she stop now that she won't get caught? 

The Asari do fix the AY already; they imprison them to keep them from murdering others.  That is fixing the sink.  You care for treating people well?  BS, you've villified Morinth's victims and gone to extreme lengths to justify her actions by ignoring arguments and replacing canon with fanfiction to support yourself.  You care about one person who has gone around making a mockery of your "morals".   You can't force others to support your ideas?  Because you just said you'd unleash a predator onto the galaxy unless they saw things your way.   And they *were* fixing it themselves, hence the Justicar and the monastery.

Fanfiction.  She cannot honestly believe that he'd survive considering that all her victims, all the AY victims, die.  She has no reason to think otherwise unless you believe that completely **** argument that she gives you, which is you falling for a trap.

Yes she does. Perfectly fine with me.

The game doesn't point at Morinth being weak willed at all. I already told you why would she stop. And if she won't stop, and I am not going to take care of AY, because as you said, galaxy has other things to worry about, I won't worry about Morinth. 

Imprisoning the AY as you can see leaves a few cracks in the sink. It doesn't work. Morinth can't be blamed for her actions in the situation that she is in. You can only blame people for not treating others fair when they themselves are being treated fair.

Fanfiction? If Morinth didn't believe that Shepard could survive the melding, then Bioware asked little 7 year old Timmy to write that script sequence and it sukcs. Morinth is not suicidal or stupid! 

[D.Kain]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Nonsense. 

Either:

1)  They can choose to not manipulate people, meld with them, and kill them, and they become monsters by choice.   No matter what is done to you, it is still your choice to inflict suffering on uninvolved people.  Even if you're starving, it's still your choice whether or not you fill your stomach by killing someone to take their wallet. 

-or-

2)  They can't choose, they rapemurder out of an irresistable compulsion, in which case locking them up is the least bad option available to the other Asari. 

Take your pick, it's only one or the other. 

You've mentioned having faced an addition, and it makes me wonder how you overcame it.  There are certain programs and therapies that emphasize the powerlessness of the individual -- that the addiction has power over them, and that it takes an outside power to overcome it. 

Your excuses for Morinth make it sound like she was powerless to choose the options that didn't hurt random innocent people, that the things other people did have more power over her than she does. 

And you're wrong.  She always had the choice.  We all have the choice. 

No matter how much you hurt, no matter how shattered and ragged and torn apart you are inside, the choice to take that out on people who have nothing to do with it is yours, and no one else's. 

Morinth doesn't OWE anybody making choices that make her life less enjoyable, because nobody bothered giving her an enjoyable choice in the first place,

[D.Kain]

BlueMagitek wrote...

He believes that if people don't agree with him, then Morinth should have free reign to feast as much as she wants. 

As I said. Morinth is not my direct problem. But if I am to solve the problem with her, I will solve it at the start, and if people don't want me to do it, I just won't solve the problem. 

[D.Kain]

Dunstan wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

So just to be perfectly clear, you're saying that if someone is a enslaved, it's OK for them to murder their "master's" children?  

Bull$#!+.  Complete and total bull$#!+. 

So HOW do you manage to call an opinon bullsh*t? It is clear, that's what I think - slavery is bad. Slaves are free to murder if they are being abused, will teach other slavers a lesson.

But it's not the slaver's childrens fault that they're parents are slavers is it.

No it's not. It's slavers fault, so? It doesn't change the fact that slaves are exused. It will also make other slavers think more about their children

Modifié par D.Kain, 04 octobre 2011 - 04:57 .

[D.Kain]

Dunstan wrote...

I saved her once for variety's sake, but that's all.
Edit: Embarrassing spelling error. 

I'm am really sorry for spelling. lol

[D.Kain]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
The only minor differenct is that the dog can't control themselve completly and loose all logical though, and Mornith still has control of her actions but it a complete addict.
Other then that it the same case.

Morinth can control her actions, she seems like a stong person that just doesn't want to. And she also doesn't bite me so I myself don't have a problem with her.

If she can choose her actions, then all the responsibility for her actions lies with her. 

We are not machines, we are not just input - process - output systems.  No matter what is done to you, you have the choice in how you respond.  If someone wrongs you, and you have no other recourse, then you direct your response to the one(s) who wronged you.

Not innocent artist girls form a different species half a galaxy and several centuries away. 


Morinth and Morinth alone is responsible for what she has made of her situation. 

We are more machines than you now I see. All people are different because they went through a different life. All people like different music because they came in contact with different music, all people like specific gender qualities because that is how they have been tought. All cultures have different things they do, that other cultures can see as amoral. 

[FoxHound109]

Right or wrong doesn't matter. Morinth is highly dangerous to pretty much every being she comes in contact with. Not only that, but she can live for hundreds of years. Eliminating her is just the most logical course of action.

[D.Kain]

Dunstan wrote...

Well I think that since it's the slaver's fault, the slaver should be made to pay for sure, but not by taking life away from innocent children. That's just wrong, the slaver should pay for his own mistakes and the children left out of it.

Children are caught in the middle. The slave didn't murder children? Good, very fortunate. The slave did murder them? I don't blame him, he was very pissed, and slavers are to blame.

[D.Kain]

FoxHound109 wrote...

Right or wrong doesn't matter. Morinth is highly dangerous to pretty much every being she comes in contact with. Not only that, but she can live for hundreds of years. Eliminating her is just the most logical course of action.

Samara is dangerous to me, not Morinth. And Morinth has more useful skills. Eliminating Morinth gives me one less awesome aquadmate.

[FoxHound109]

Dunstan wrote...

FoxHound109 wrote...

Right or wrong doesn't matter. Morinth is highly dangerous to pretty much every being she comes in contact with. Not only that, but she can live for hundreds of years. Eliminating her is just the most logical course of action.

Before or after containment failed?

After containment failed. Once she escaped and started killing, regardless of the morality behind her choices, she needed to go. She's too powerful, she enjoys/is addicted to killing, and she can live for hundreds of years. It's like the Genophage: it seems cruel on the outside, but it's the most logical course of action.

[D.Kain]

Dunstan wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Dunstan wrote...

Well I think that since it's the slaver's fault, the slaver should be made to pay for sure, but not by taking life away from innocent children. That's just wrong, the slaver should pay for his own mistakes and the children left out of it.

Children are caught in the middle. The slave didn't murder children? Good, very fortunate. The slave did murder them? I don't blame him, he was very pissed, and slavers are to blame.

Ahh I see, just like collateral damage then?

Yes.

[FoxHound109]

D.Kain wrote...

FoxHound109 wrote...

Right or wrong doesn't matter. Morinth is highly dangerous to pretty much every being she comes in contact with. Not only that, but she can live for hundreds of years. Eliminating her is just the most logical course of action.

Samara is dangerous to me, not Morinth. And Morinth has more useful skills. Eliminating Morinth gives me one less awesome aquadmate.

I don't buy that. Sure, Samara is dangerous in her own way, but Samara isn't like Morinth. Samara is clear cut: she follows a code, you stand in the way of it, she has to eliminate you. It's that simple. You can predict Samara's actions and prepare accordingly. There is also the chance to avoid Samara attacking/killing you. The first scene where she kills the other Asari, all the other Asari had to do was tell her what ship she sent Morinth off on and Samara would have let her go. Morinth hunts actively to feed her "need" and usually preys on other beings at will with no regard for any sort of code or rule. She's hard to predict and she's definitely more dangerous than Samara in that sense, not the least because I can't imagine her ever sparing a potential victim.

[D.Kain]

FoxHound109 wrote...

I don't buy that. Sure, Samara is dangerous in her own way, but Samara isn't like Morinth. Samara is clear cut: she follows a code, you stand in the way of it, she has to eliminate you. It's that simple. You can predict Samara's actions and prepare accordingly. There is also the chance to avoid Samara attacking/killing you. The first scene where she kills the other Asari, all the other Asari had to do was tell her what ship she sent Morinth off on and Samara would have let her go. Morinth hunts actively to feed her "need" and usually preys on other beings at will with no regard for any sort of code or rule. She's hard to predict and she's definitely more dangerous than Samara in that sense, not the least because I can't imagine her ever sparing a potential victim.

Morinth had a chance when she could walk away or turture and meld with my Shepard, or simply kill Shepard, nothing was stopping her. That's how I know I can trust her.

[D.Kain]

Dunstan wrote...

Then I'm sorry, but I find you disgusting and I no longer wish to speak to you.

Then you better consider letting your slave go. Because that kind of thinking only leads me to think that you do not want to cooperate and simply treat people fair, to avoid it all in the first place.

[FoxHound109]

D.Kain wrote...

FoxHound109 wrote...

I don't buy that. Sure, Samara is dangerous in her own way, but Samara isn't like Morinth. Samara is clear cut: she follows a code, you stand in the way of it, she has to eliminate you. It's that simple. You can predict Samara's actions and prepare accordingly. There is also the chance to avoid Samara attacking/killing you. The first scene where she kills the other Asari, all the other Asari had to do was tell her what ship she sent Morinth off on and Samara would have let her go. Morinth hunts actively to feed her "need" and usually preys on other beings at will with no regard for any sort of code or rule. She's hard to predict and she's definitely more dangerous than Samara in that sense, not the least because I can't imagine her ever sparing a potential victim.

Morinth had a chance when she could walk away or turture and meld with my Shepard, or simply kill Shepard, nothing was stopping her. That's how I know I can trust her.

For now, but you never know. That applies to pretty much the entire crew, but in Morinth's case there is that extra bit of danger that comes along with her condition. But correct me if I'm wrong here: don't you have the option to meld with her anyway? I'm not sure how trustworthy she could be in your example considering if you talk to her enough she'll meld with you even knowing it'll probably kill you. Samara clearly tells you she will not get involved with you...if Morinth was really worth trusting then she would probably tell you the same and a romance/melding with her wouldn't even be an in-game option. Not that she hates Shepard, per se, but her addiction could be strong enough in that case to override everything other logical thought she might have (hence the danger)

[BlueMagitek]

D.Kain wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

...And yet she still wants to meld with you.

Morinth can stop?  Since when?  Every source in the game claims that the condition is addicting and the only AY we know that don't go on killing sprees are imprisoned to be sure that they don't.  The melding gets more addictive each and every time, she's been doing it for four hundred years.  Why would she change?  And no, now that Samara isn't chasing her anymore, she has free reign to kill as much as she pleases.  She set herself up as a goddess to be worshiped and only left because Samara ruined her diabolical plans.  Why would she stop now that she won't get caught? 

The Asari do fix the AY already; they imprison them to keep them from murdering others.  That is fixing the sink.  You care for treating people well?  BS, you've villified Morinth's victims and gone to extreme lengths to justify her actions by ignoring arguments and replacing canon with fanfiction to support yourself.  You care about one person who has gone around making a mockery of your "morals".   You can't force others to support your ideas?  Because you just said you'd unleash a predator onto the galaxy unless they saw things your way.   And they *were* fixing it themselves, hence the Justicar and the monastery.

Fanfiction.  She cannot honestly believe that he'd survive considering that all her victims, all the AY victims, die.  She has no reason to think otherwise unless you believe that completely **** argument that she gives you, which is you falling for a trap.

Yes she does. Perfectly fine with me.

The game doesn't point at Morinth being weak willed at all. I already told you why would she stop. And if she won't stop, and I am not going to take care of AY, because as you said, galaxy has other things to worry about, I won't worry about Morinth. 

Imprisoning the AY as you can see leaves a few cracks in the sink. It doesn't work. Morinth can't be blamed for her actions in the situation that she is in. You can only blame people for not treating others fair when they themselves are being treated fair.

Fanfiction? If Morinth didn't believe that Shepard could survive the melding, then Bioware asked little 7 year old Timmy to write that script sequence and it sukcs. Morinth is not suicidal or stupid! 

No comment.

She's an addict who has given no reason why she would stop.  She enjoys melding, it's addictive to her, she's been doing it for 400 years now.  Why would she stop?  Because she's safe?  That's operating on the flawed idea that she's only killing to increase her power so she's safe.  And in the situation that the galaxy knows about the AY and don't care, you've already made yourself a part of the problem by killing the solution; you're already involved once you kill Samara for Morinth. 

No, giving the AY a choice leaves a few cracks in the sink.  If Morinth was imprisoned immediately, everyone would be fine.  And Morinth can be blamed for her actions.  She made the choice to hunt, to kill & to enslave, Samara didn't make that choice for her.  And you can blame a person despite the fairness of a situation.  An impoverished person doesn't have the right to kill someone well off who has nothing to do with his station.  You can blame a fugitive for killing an innocent person in an attempt to get away from the law. 

Yes, fanfiction.  Regardless of whatever you make up for yourself, there was no evidence that Shepard would survive the melding and there's no reason for Morinth (known liar and manipulator) to think otherwise. 

D.Kain wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

He believes that if people don't agree with him, then Morinth should have free reign to feast as much as she wants. 

As
I said. Morinth is not my direct problem. But if I am to solve the
problem with her, I will solve it at the start, and if people don't want
me to do it, I just won't solve the problem. 

You're
part of the problem because you killed the solution to the problem.  If
a dam explodes, you have to deal with rebuilding the dam, and the area
that was flooded by the break.  You're just focused on the dam itself
and ignore everything else.

[D.Kain]

FoxHound109 wrote...

For now, but you never know. That applies to pretty much the entire crew, but in Morinth's case there is that extra bit of danger that comes along with her condition. But correct me if I'm wrong here: don't you have the option to meld with her anyway? I'm not sure how trustworthy she could be in your example considering if you talk to her enough she'll meld with you even knowing it'll probably kill you. Samara clearly tells you she will not get involved with you...if Morinth was really worth trusting then she would probably tell you the same and a romance/melding with her wouldn't even be an in-game option. Not that she hates Shepard, per se, but her addiction could be strong enough in that case to override everything other logical thought she might have (hence the danger)

I think that Morinth is better than the other crew members simply because I can't see how I can ****** her off. She doesn't have any choice biases on missions, all she cares about is helping Shepard.
Here is an example: If I NEEDED to sacrifice the floutila for example, I can see Tali turning on me unless I have a very high Paragon/Renegade. I can't imagine a similar situation involving Morinth, without directly attacking her. 

Read my other post about melding too. I think even on this and last page.