3434 réponses à ce sujet

[D.Kain]

SandTrout wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

She probably cares, I mean as much as a farmer would care to kill a cow that he likes to eat. I mean it is sad, but nescecery.

Except that it isn't necessary, becuase she only needs the victim for her high, not to survive.

She was put into a position in which her melding and manipulating people is nescecery to survive and to fight back, or even to hipnotize people to move around freely, which all again comes down to her power which she get's by melding.

Wrong. Her melding is purely the act of and addict. Her situation required here to use manipulation and lies, but not to kill the vast majority of her victims.

 

She gets power, she becomes stronger, her nervous system raveges her partners and becomes better at controlling biotic fields. That's the main goal of melding.

[Sethan_1]

D.Kain wrote...

She gets power, she becomes stronger, her nervous system raveges her partners and becomes better at controlling biotic fields. That's the main goal of melding.

Yep - and if all she wants to do is live free and hide, she needs none of that. 

She's killing because she wants to - and that makes her a monster, responsible for the deaths.

[D.Kain]

Sethan_1 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

She gets power, she becomes stronger, her nervous system raveges her partners and becomes better at controlling biotic fields. That's the main goal of melding.

Yep - and if all she wants to do is live free and hide, she needs none of that. 

She's killing because she wants to - and that makes her a monster, responsible for the deaths.

Again we don't know that. What if she for example wanted to become strong enough to get her sisters out of seclusion, as someone mentioned? 

[D.Kain]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Sethan_1 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

She gets power, she becomes stronger, her nervous system raveges her partners and becomes better at controlling biotic fields. That's the main goal of melding.

Yep - and if all she wants to do is live free and hide, she needs none of that. 

She's killing because she wants to - and that makes her a monster, responsible for the deaths.

Again we don't know that. What if she for example wanted to become strong enough to get her sisters out of seclusion, as someone mentioned? 

What if, what if, what if. What if I'm Hiter in disguise masquerading as Michael Jackson.
You can make up scenarios all day long.

I didn't say it was true. But saying that all Morinth wants is to get high, is making up scenario too. Nobody knows what she wanted to do until ME3 reveals more.

[D.Kain]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

But you can't just hold off all judgement until we have everything. We have to work with what we have.

Listen.

I know Morinth was given an unfair choice.
She helped me fight the reapers, even was the successful bubble girl on the last mission.
She is being nice to my Shepard.
I don't know her morives enough. 

Why would I harm her? She didn't harm me when we were in that room alone, with Samara dead.

[Sethan_1]

D.Kain wrote...

Sethan_1 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

She gets power, she becomes stronger, her nervous system raveges her partners and becomes better at controlling biotic fields. That's the main goal of melding.

Yep - and if all she wants to do is live free and hide, she needs none of that. 

She's killing because she wants to - and that makes her a monster, responsible for the deaths.

Again we don't know that. What if she for example wanted to become strong enough to get her sisters out of seclusion, as someone mentioned? 

Emphasis mine on your above quote.

Her "wanting" to do anything does not trump the right of her victims to continue to live.

[D.Kain]

Sethan_1 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Sethan_1 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

She gets power, she becomes stronger, her nervous system raveges her partners and becomes better at controlling biotic fields. That's the main goal of melding.

Yep - and if all she wants to do is live free and hide, she needs none of that. 

She's killing because she wants to - and that makes her a monster, responsible for the deaths.

Again we don't know that. What if she for example wanted to become strong enough to get her sisters out of seclusion, as someone mentioned? 

Emphasis mine on your above quote.

Her "wanting" to do anything does not trump the right of her victims to continue to live.

Yes well that's something that asari should of thought about before presenting Morinth with choices.

[SandTrout]

D.Kain wrote...

Listen.

I know Morinth was given an unfair choice.

Which makes her a tragic figure, but doesn't give her a moral blank check.

She helped me fight the reapers, even was the successful bubble girl on the last mission.

Great, she saved her own but from getting killed by either the Collectors or Shepard.

She is being nice to my Shepard.

because Shepard could kill her/have her killed at anytime.

I don't know her morives enough.

Assuming you ment 'motives' there, I can tell you that her motives are that of an addict. Just trust me on this one.

Why would I harm her? She didn't harm me when we were in that room alone, with Samara dead.

I think she realized that biotic or not, Shepard was strong enough to take her down on his own, and she can't do the dominate thing to win. Besides that, preventing her from killing more innocent people is about as good of a reason as exists to harm anyone.

[Sethan_1]

D.Kain wrote...

Yes well that's something that asari should of thought about before presenting Morinth with choices.

It wasn't their intent to present her with a choice - that is the entire point of sending the AY into seclusion in the monastery: to ensure that the AY does not have the option of choosing poorly.

Morinth chose to not submit, then chose to kill people (as the Asari knew she would, which is the entire reason for confining to the monastery in the first place).  The Asari are not responsible for Morinth's choices.  Only she is.

[D.Kain]

SandTrout wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Listen.

I know Morinth was given an unfair choice.

Which makes her a tragic figure, but doesn't give her a moral blank check.

She helped me fight the reapers, even was the successful bubble girl on the last mission.

Great, she saved her own but from getting killed by either the Collectors or Shepard.

She is being nice to my Shepard.

because Shepard could kill her/have her killed at anytime.

I don't know her morives enough.

Assuming you ment 'motives' there, I can tell you that her motives are that of an addict. Just trust me on this one.

Why would I harm her? She didn't harm me when we were in that room alone, with Samara dead.

I think she realized that biotic or not, Shepard was strong enough to take her down on his own, and she can't do the dominate thing to win. Besides that, preventing her from killing more innocent people is about as good of a reason as exists to harm anyone.

1) It just means that she needs help, imo. That is just debetable. 

2) Saved her butt? She risked her butt on a suicide mission! I mean maybe she likes the thrill, but come on a suicide mission?? It's pretty much expected that one doesn't return.

3) What are you talking about? Let's see...  I helped her to kill Samara and we were left alone in her apartment. Shepard has no weapons, no armor, and PLEASE be realistic - Morinth is as strong as Samara, even if Shepard was biotic he is an inferior one. ( I always play adepts by the way, but I don't have an ego of being stronger than Morinth or Jack. ) So what was stoping Morinth from a) Killing Shepard. Walking away. c) Put Shepard back in the couch and torture him until he melds with her. OR just in case you have a very high ego and think you are SOMEHOW stronger - d) Biotic push and run away. 
So what did Morinth choose? That's right e) Ask Shepard nicely to let her take her mothers place on a frickin suicide mission. Now while she MIGHT be a monster, she doesn't lack greatfulness at all, and keeps her promises.

4) I can't assume that she would have the same life if her rights weren't thrown in the bin to begin with.

5) Shepard is not stronger, and I don't know what are her future plans after Samara is dead.

[D.Kain]

Sethan_1 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Yes well that's something that asari should of thought about before presenting Morinth with choices.

It wasn't their intent to present her with a choice - that is the entire point of sending the AY into seclusion in the monastery: to ensure that the AY does not have the option of choosing poorly.

Morinth chose to not submit, then chose to kill people (as the Asari knew she would, which is the entire reason for confining to the monastery in the first place).  The Asari are not responsible for Morinth's choices.  Only she is.

Morinth wanted freedom. Morinth thought that life in seclusion is worst than death, that's why she ran away. They gave her a choice of a) death something worse. she was supposed to choose one of those? 

AY should be free like any other asari. I already said that it would be a lot easier to keep them in check if they didn't have to hide them for selfish political reasons and send agents like justicars to deal with them undercover. 

[Sethan_1]

D.Kain wrote...

Morinth wanted freedom. Morinth thought that life in seclusion is worst than death, that's why she ran away. They gave her a choice of a) death something worse. she was supposed to choose one of those? 

She was supposed to choose the one that does not involve murdering other people.

[D.Kain]

Sethan_1 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Morinth wanted freedom. Morinth thought that life in seclusion is worst than death, that's why she ran away. They gave her a choice of a) death something worse. she was supposed to choose one of those? 

She was supposed to choose the one that does not involve murdering other people.

That would be murdering herself, since she wouldn't want to live a life that she considers worse than death. So basically she would be killed for safety of asari before even doing anything wrong.

[Sethan_1]

D.Kain wrote...

That would be murdering herself, since she wouldn't want to live a life that she considers worse than death. So basically she would be killed for safety of asari before even doing anything wrong.

Again, her not liking her options is not a license to go murder people.

That she doesn't "want" to do otherwise is unfortunate, but not a justification for murder.

[SandTrout]

D.Kain wrote...

1) It just means that she needs help, imo. That is just debetable.

What is this, I don't even...

2) Saved her butt? She risked her butt on a suicide mission! I mean maybe she likes the thrill, but come on a suicide mission?? It's pretty much expected that one doesn't return.

Her choice was either probable death in the suicide mission or certain death at the hands of Shepard and his/her crew.

3) What are you talking about? Let's see...  I helped her to kill Samara and we were left alone in her apartment. Shepard has no weapons, no armor, and PLEASE be realistic - Morinth is as strong as Samara, even if Shepard was biotic he is an inferior one. ( I always play adepts by the way, but I don't have an ego of being stronger than Morinth or Jack. ) So what was stoping Morinth from a) Killing Shepard.

Shepard is an extremely experienced soldier with the best training humanity has to offer. Read 'Retribuiton' some time if you want to see an example of an unarmed, unarmored N7 taking down numerous foes that would theoretically be out of his league.

Walking away. c) Put Shepard back in the couch and torture him until he melds with her. OR just in case you have a very high ego and think you are SOMEHOW stronger - d) Biotic push and run away.

Biotics are limited, Morinth is likely drained from the fight with Samara, and Shepard is still completely fresh to the fight.

So what did Morinth choose? That's right e) Ask Shepard nicely to let her take her mothers place on a frickin suicide mission. Now while she MIGHT be a monster, she doesn't lack greatfulness at all, and keeps her promises.

Since none of the above options are as viable as you think, this was the only practical choice.

4) I can't assume that she would have the same life if her rights weren't thrown in the bin to begin with.

Completely unrelated and irrelevant. You don't have the same life as I do, but that doesn't mean one of us has the moral right to commit murder for the fun of it.

5) Shepard is not stronger, and I don't know what are her future plans after Samara is dead.

It's not a matter of outright strength, but combat aptitude. Morinth is not completely unskilled, but most of her time over the centuries has been spent manipulating people and killing outside of combat, not in constant firefights against superior numbers. She's a serial killer, not a soldier.

[Ravensword]

D.Kain wrote...

Sethan_1 wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Yes well that's something that asari should of thought about before presenting Morinth with choices.

It wasn't their intent to present her with a choice - that is the entire point of sending the AY into seclusion in the monastery: to ensure that the AY does not have the option of choosing poorly.

Morinth chose to not submit, then chose to kill people (as the Asari knew she would, which is the entire reason for confining to the monastery in the first place).  The Asari are not responsible for Morinth's choices.  Only she is.

Morinth wanted freedom. Morinth thought that life in seclusion is worst than death, that's why she ran away. They gave her a choice of a) death something worse. she was supposed to choose one of those? 

AY should be free like any other asari. I already said that it would be a lot easier to keep them in check if they didn't have to hide them for selfish political reasons and send agents like justicars to deal with them undercover. 

She wanted freedom and she used to to start murdering people. She's a serial lust murderer.

[D.Kain]

@Sandtrout

I really believe that Shepard is strong I do, but not THAT strong. I haven't read the books, I don't think Shepard would be able to take down Samara without gear. Samara was an Asari-matriach level biotic with Justicar training. Morinth was equal to her in her biotic power. She also didn't seem exausted at all. The fact that she can hold a biotic bubble through the collectors ship till the end and unleash a shockwave afterwards says something about her stamina.

[D.Kain]

Ravensword wrote...

She wanted freedom and she used to to start murdering people. She's a serial lust murderer.

You don't know that, or what she wanted, besides freedom. 

[SandTrout]

D.Kain wrote...

@Sandtrout

I really believe that Shepard is strong I do, but not THAT strong.

You say strong, I say skilled. I'm not sure if you're simply assuming false synonym here, or what.

I haven't read the books, I don't think Shepard would be able to take down Samara without gear. Samara was an Asari-matriach level biotic with Justicar training.

Samara, probably not, for the reasons you mentioned. Morinth, however, is not combat-trained, and is simply a powerful biotic.

Morinth was equal to her in her biotic power. She also didn't seem exausted at all. The fact that she can hold a biotic bubble through the collectors ship till the end and unleash a shockwave afterwards says something about her stamina.

While it's difficult to discern how much energy the bubble actually took, we can fairly assume that the biotic fight between Samara and Morinth as all-out with both of them at maximum power the entire time, and while she may not have apeared winded, that doesn't mean that she was physically drained from the fight due to the nature of energy expenditures in biotics (IE: Via the nervous system instead of muscular). Remember that in the lore, a biotic is only capable of a couple major displays of power before they must rest and recuperate.

Modifié par SandTrout, 05 octobre 2011 - 08:39 .

[Ravensword]

D.Kain wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

She wanted freedom and she used to to start murdering people. She's a serial lust murderer.

You don't know that, or what she wanted, besides freedom. 

From what Samara has said it is. She wanted freedom and she got freedom which she used to deprive people of life because it fueled her addiction. Now, you'll say that because she's an addict that she needs help and I think that spending the rest of her in some institution for the criminally insane in a medicated stupor would be something you should find satisfactory. They can help her there.

[D.Kain]

SandTrout wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

@Sandtrout

I really believe that Shepard is strong I do, but not THAT strong.

You say strong, I say skilled. I'm not sure if you're simply assuming false synonym here, or what.

I haven't read the books, I don't think Shepard would be able to take down Samara without gear. Samara was an Asari-matriach level biotic with Justicar training.

Samara, probably not, for the reasons you mentioned. Morinth, however, is not combat-trained, and is simply a powerful biotic.

Morinth was equal to her in her biotic power. She also didn't seem exausted at all. The fact that she can hold a biotic bubble through the collectors ship till the end and unleash a shockwave afterwards says something about her stamina.

While it's difficult to discern how much energy the bubble actually took, we can fairly assume that the biotic fight between Samara and Morinth as all-out with both of them at maximum power the entire time, and while she may not have apeared winded, that doesn't mean that she was physically drained from the fight due to the nature of energy expenditures in biotics (IE: Via the nervous system instead of muscular). Remember that in the lore, a biotic is only capable of a couple major displays of power before they must rest and recuperate.

She could still hurl Shepard into the wall atleast once and get a nose bleed. After all her life is at stake. And Shepard doesn't weight tons. 

[Ravensword]

I think the reason she came along w/ Shepard because she really wanted to meld w/ him but she couldn't use her Dominate ability on him so maybe she came along to be able to seduce Shepard into melding w/ her and at the end of the SM she convinces Shepard to do so and we all know what happened then. It makes you wonder what Morinth would've done after mircrowaving Shep's brain.

[D.Kain]

Ravensword wrote...

I think the reason she came along w/ Shepard because she really wanted to meld w/ him but she couldn't use her Dominate ability on him so maybe she came along to be able to seduce Shepard into melding w/ her and at the end of the SM she convinces Shepard to do so and we all know what happened then. It makes you wonder what Morinth would've done after mircrowaving Shep's brain.

Fly out the airlock when EDI fails to read Shepards life signs?

Modifié par D.Kain, 05 octobre 2011 - 08:54 .