3434 réponses à ce sujet

[D.Kain]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

What of the non-asari she killed?

They had nothing to do with her situation, yet she killed them.

Surely those murders register as uniformly bad to you?

They had everything to do with her situation. It is because of them that asari hide AY politically. 
I am not saying in any way that they deserved it ofcourse. Murder is bad yes. 
The death of non asari is actually going to be one of my arguments of why I can demand things from the asari. Because my species died because of how they treat AY.

....That's monstrous.

Why? What can I do about the victims? Ressurect them? They are already dead. Killing Morinth won't help, unless she plans on new ones. But hey I can let her meld with people that are ''bad''.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

D.Kain wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

You can't honestly say she's neutral.

If she only killed evil people she'd be neutral.

She kills good, bad, ugly, and Krogan. She's evil, the Chaotic kind.

She is Chaotic Neutral. 

She enjoy's killing.

And the hunt.

Which swings it down to evil.


I'm going to repeat this for emphisis. It is okay to like an evil character and admit that said character is evil.

If you were to go "I like Morinth because she's smart, attractive, and refreshingly evil" no one would bat an eyelash. Because they could accept that.

But you try to justify her actions and that's the messed up bit.

[SandTrout]

D.Kain wrote...

She is Chaotic Neutral. 

Nope. Chaotic Neutral aren't typically serial killers. That fact alone puts her in the evil category.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

D.Kain wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

What of the non-asari she killed?

They had nothing to do with her situation, yet she killed them.

Surely those murders register as uniformly bad to you?

They had everything to do with her situation. It is because of them that asari hide AY politically. 
I am not saying in any way that they deserved it ofcourse. Murder is bad yes. 
The death of non asari is actually going to be one of my arguments of why I can demand things from the asari. Because my species died because of how they treat AY.

....That's monstrous.

Why? What can I do about the victims? Ressurect them? They are already dead. Killing Morinth won't help, unless she plans on new ones. But hey I can let her meld with people that are ''bad''.

Killing her before she can kill again, and by the time you meet her she has a very very consistent pattern on this, not only prevents further victims but gets a little tiny bit of justice for all those killed pointlessly over the centuries.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

D.Kain do you think she is a serial killer?

[SandTrout]

D.Kain wrote...

Why? What can I do about the victims? Ressurect them? They are already dead. Killing Morinth won't help, unless she plans on new ones. But hey I can let her meld with people that are ''bad''.

So your sollution is to allow Morinth to kill Samara, and then continue killing once the Suicide Mission is over.

Also, since we have already proven that Morinth does not need to kill in order to survive in hiding, the fact that she has been killing repeatedly points toward her continueing to kill once she leaves Shepard's sight. You're deluding yourself, dangerously so.

[D.Kain]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

D.Kain do you think she is a serial killer?

No I don't think that she is a serial killer. Serial killers kill for fun, Morinth killed for survival. That Morinth feels pleasure from killing people phisically doesn't mean that she feels plesure emotionally, it also doesn't mean that plesure is the main goal, it is survival.

[D.Kain]

SandTrout wrote...

So your sollution is to allow Morinth to kill Samara, and then continue killing once the Suicide Mission is over.

Also, since we have already proven that Morinth does not need to kill in order to survive in hiding, the fact that she has been killing repeatedly points toward her continueing to kill once she leaves Shepard's sight. You're deluding yourself, dangerously so.

My solution depends on what asari and justicars are going to do now. Morinth will most likely not kill anymore innocents. If she does, I will call her ungreatful and deal with her.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

D.Kain wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

D.Kain do you think she is a serial killer?

No I don't think that she is a serial killer. Serial killers kill for fun, Morinth killed for survival. That Morinth feels pleasure from killing people phisically doesn't mean that she feels plesure emotionally, it also doesn't mean that plesure is the main goal, it is survival.

But...but she fits the definition...perfectly.

That's not a matter of opinion.

[D.Kain]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

D.Kain do you think she is a serial killer?

No I don't think that she is a serial killer. Serial killers kill for fun, Morinth killed for survival. That Morinth feels pleasure from killing people phisically doesn't mean that she feels plesure emotionally, it also doesn't mean that plesure is the main goal, it is survival.

But...but she fits the definition...perfectly.

That's not a matter of opinion.

A serial killer, as typically defined, is an individual who has murdered three or more people over a period of more than a month, with down time (a "cooling off period") between the murders, and whose motivation for killing is usually based on psychological gratification.

See the bold part? Morinth doesn't fit that.
She also doesn't fit ANY wiki serial-profile motives.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

She targets a specific group (those with an some kind of special spark) She has hunting grounds (clubs, pretty much anywhere she can hedonist it up)

She gets more than psychological gratification! IT LITERALLY MAKES HER STRONGER!

She's a Fething serial killer.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

To you Ted Fething Bundy doesn't fit a serial killer profile!

[D.Kain]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

She targets a specific group (those with an some kind of special spark) She has hunting grounds (clubs, pretty much anywhere she can hedonist it up)

She gets more than psychological gratification! IT LITERALLY MAKES HER STRONGER!

She's a Fething serial killer.

Perhaps as asari target a specific people to make their offsprings better, she targets people that will make her stronger. People the nervous system of which is advanced in some ways. 

She ravages the partners nervous system and her nervous system becomes more adapt at controlling biotic fields.

And the bold part. That is exactly why she DOESN'T fit the serial killer profile, because her main goal is to become stronger. Which would help her to fight back people like Samara.

[D.Kain]

Ted wasn't doing it to survive. He wasn't hunted.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

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

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

I have finally figured out what arguing with a brick wall is like.

You could be shown a picture of Morinth murdering a litter of puppies...and you'd blame the puppies or her mother or society because it's never her fault with you.

It's just not fun anymore.

[D.Kain]

If Samara told me something like: Morinth ran away, and we though that we will give her a chance to live freely. But then she started killing so we had to stop her. Then I would help Samara.
But Samara said: Morinth ran away, so we had to stop her. And then she started killing.

Modifié par D.Kain, 06 octobre 2011 - 06:08 .

[Radahldo]

i think if anyone is this thread is frustrated with d. kain you have to take a long look at yourself why you keep responding (for one hundred of pages!!!!)

Modifié par Radahldo, 06 octobre 2011 - 06:04 .

[D.Kain]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

I have finally figured out what arguing with a brick wall is like.

You could be shown a picture of Morinth murdering a litter of puppies...and you'd blame the puppies or her mother or society because it's never her fault with you.

It's just not fun anymore.

If the puppies were connected to her survival somehow, then yes. It would only be her fault if she was treated like everyone else. But you want her to be responsible like everyone else, when she wasn't given the choice like everyone else.

Modifié par D.Kain, 06 octobre 2011 - 06:06 .

[D.Kain]

Radahldo wrote...

i think if anyone is this thread is frustrated with d. kain you have to take a long look at yourself why you keep responding (for one hundred of pages!!!!)

Probably because people feel offended by the fact that someone doesn't agree with them on what they think is a right choice. 

[AnAccountWithNoName]

D.Kain wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

But it's still wrong yes?

She is still guilty of multiple cases of mindrapemurder? 

You will admit to that at least?

It's both. It's wrong because it's wrong to kill people. And it's right because her plan worked and she survived. Her killing people is bad, her surviving after how she was treated is just. 
She is guilty but it was a nescecery guilt. 
It's a hard case.

How can something be right and wrong at the same time.....isn't that a paradox?

[D.Kain]

AnAccountWithNoName wrote...

How can something be right and wrong at the same time.....isn't that a paradox?

It's like when I broke my back once. when I fell from a zipline. It was bad because I got injured, and it was good because I chose to study a different proffesion because of it, but the place that I wanted to study before got closed, so I would fail my carreer. True story here. 

I'm not saying that these things are related a lot. I'm just giving an example of how something can be good and bad at the same time.

[D.Kain]

jreezy wrote...

Bulls***. Typing is much easier than having a face to face conversatiion because you have more time to gather your thoughts but you just talk a whole bunch of nonsense.

Oh I would prefer talking face to face. It would actually be easier. I am just saying that what asari wanted to do doesn't work. They wanted to hide AY for political reasons, but AY ended up killing people that didn't knew about their existance.

[FullmetalJ]

It isn't a black and white choice. Samara has a far bigger bodycount than Morinth. Morinth isn't technically moral, but it could be seen that Samara was negligent as a mother and its her fault that she turned out that way. One could also see her as a victim.
Really though, we arn't given enough information to make a "black or white" choice, it's more of a choice on the fly.

Also, I don't think there'd be a negative to the choice. Only thing I can think of is that if morinth told everyone that you helped her kill her mother, which would make it a bit harder to recruit the whole asari race. Which she wouldn't, because her only loyalty is to shepard "because he's special".