D.Kain wrote...
I like her because she is intelegent, badass and attractive. yes.
In other words, you cut her slack because you find her sexy.
D.Kain wrote...
I like her because she is intelegent, badass and attractive. yes.
D.Kain wrote...
Killjoy Cutter wrote...
D.Kain wrote...
I think that asari might have started to hide AY since the star age for political reasons, which is selfish.
Purely baseless speculation.
But it's in your codex, that you love so much:
As a disproportionately wealthy species, asari employ their economic reach and media ownership to hide the AY pathology from the galactic community, placing most Ardat-Yakshi in monitored work programs or seclusion.
D.Kain wrote...
Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
D.Kain do you think she is a serial killer?
No I don't think that she is a serial killer. Serial killers kill for fun, Morinth killed for survival. That Morinth feels pleasure from killing people phisically doesn't mean that she feels plesure emotionally, it also doesn't mean that plesure is the main goal, it is survival.
D.Kain wrote...
Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
But it's still wrong yes?
She is still guilty of multiple cases of mindrapemurder?
You will admit to that at least?
It's both. It's wrong because it's wrong to kill people. And it's right because her plan worked and she survived. Her killing people is bad, her surviving after how she was treated is just.
She is guilty but it was a nescecery guilt.
It's a hard case.
D.Kain wrote...
Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
But...but she fits the definition...perfectly.D.Kain wrote...
Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
D.Kain do you think she is a serial killer?
No I don't think that she is a serial killer. Serial killers kill for fun, Morinth killed for survival. That Morinth feels pleasure from killing people phisically doesn't mean that she feels plesure emotionally, it also doesn't mean that plesure is the main goal, it is survival.
That's not a matter of opinion.
A serial killer, as typically defined, is an individual who has murdered three or more people over a period of more than a month, with down time (a "cooling off period") between the murders, and whose motivation for killing is usually based on psychological gratification.
See the bold part? Morinth doesn't fit that.
She also doesn't fit ANY wiki serial-profile motives.
Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 06 octobre 2011 - 06:35 .
He's mentally ill. I figured that out a while back.Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Did someone hack your copy of ME2 and change dialogue? Or are you delusional, or afflicted with selective memory, or what?
Killjoy Cutter wrote...
D.Kain wrote...
I like her because she is intelegent, badass and attractive. yes.
In other words, you cut her slack because you find her sexy.
Killjoy Cutter wrote...
D.Kain wrote...
Killjoy Cutter wrote...
D.Kain wrote...
I think that asari might have started to hide AY since the star age for political reasons, which is selfish.
Purely baseless speculation.
But it's in your codex, that you love so much:
As a disproportionately wealthy species, asari employ their economic reach and media ownership to hide the AY pathology from the galactic community, placing most Ardat-Yakshi in monitored work programs or seclusion.
I'll have to read the whole thing tonight when I get a chance.
And if you think I love the codex, you have me confused with someone else.
Where you reach the baseless speculation part is when you assume that the policy of seclusion and discretion started because the Asari wanted to hide the Ardat Yakshi from other species.
Killjoy Cutter wrote...
D.Kain wrote...
Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
D.Kain do you think she is a serial killer?
No I don't think that she is a serial killer. Serial killers kill for fun, Morinth killed for survival. That Morinth feels pleasure from killing people phisically doesn't mean that she feels plesure emotionally, it also doesn't mean that plesure is the main goal, it is survival.
Did someone hack your copy of ME2 and change dialogue? Or are you delusional, or afflicted with selective memory, or what?
Of course she feels pleasure emotionally, listen to what she says when you bother looking around her apartment. She goes on and on about how much she enjoys manipulating and murdering people if you just stop and LISTEN TO WHAT SHE IS SAYING.
D.Kain wrote...
Killjoy Cutter wrote...
D.Kain wrote...
Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
D.Kain do you think she is a serial killer?
No I don't think that she is a serial killer. Serial killers kill for fun, Morinth killed for survival. That Morinth feels pleasure from killing people phisically doesn't mean that she feels plesure emotionally, it also doesn't mean that plesure is the main goal, it is survival.
Did someone hack your copy of ME2 and change dialogue? Or are you delusional, or afflicted with selective memory, or what?
Of course she feels pleasure emotionally, listen to what she says when you bother looking around her apartment. She goes on and on about how much she enjoys manipulating and murdering people if you just stop and LISTEN TO WHAT SHE IS SAYING.
She is talking about opponents in her appartment, not her victims, do you know the difference? She is talking about people that tried to kill her too, and failed. Chess game is basically about her plans for Samara.
Killjoy Cutter wrote...
D.Kain wrote...
Killjoy Cutter wrote...
D.Kain wrote...
Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
D.Kain do you think she is a serial killer?
No I don't think that she is a serial killer. Serial killers kill for fun, Morinth killed for survival. That Morinth feels pleasure from killing people phisically doesn't mean that she feels plesure emotionally, it also doesn't mean that plesure is the main goal, it is survival.
Did someone hack your copy of ME2 and change dialogue? Or are you delusional, or afflicted with selective memory, or what?
Of course she feels pleasure emotionally, listen to what she says when you bother looking around her apartment. She goes on and on about how much she enjoys manipulating and murdering people if you just stop and LISTEN TO WHAT SHE IS SAYING.
She is talking about opponents in her appartment, not her victims, do you know the difference? She is talking about people that tried to kill her too, and failed. Chess game is basically about her plans for Samara.
LoL.... whatever.
D.Kain wrote...
Killjoy Cutter wrote...
D.Kain wrote...
Killjoy Cutter wrote...
D.Kain wrote...
Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
D.Kain do you think she is a serial killer?
No I don't think that she is a serial killer. Serial killers kill for fun, Morinth killed for survival. That Morinth feels pleasure from killing people phisically doesn't mean that she feels plesure emotionally, it also doesn't mean that plesure is the main goal, it is survival.
Did someone hack your copy of ME2 and change dialogue? Or are you delusional, or afflicted with selective memory, or what?
Of course she feels pleasure emotionally, listen to what she says when you bother looking around her apartment. She goes on and on about how much she enjoys manipulating and murdering people if you just stop and LISTEN TO WHAT SHE IS SAYING.
She is talking about opponents in her appartment, not her victims, do you know the difference? She is talking about people that tried to kill her too, and failed. Chess game is basically about her plans for Samara.
LoL.... whatever.
Victims are not opponents that is a fact. A lion wouldn't go around saying: and then that sheep got me into the corner and thought that it would kill me, but I was smarter.
Killjoy Cutter wrote...
She's talking about the joy she derives from hunting, manipulating, deceiving, and killing.
Of course a victim can also be an opponent. "That dog thought I was a sheep, and I let him think it until he had me cornered", said by a tiger (Morinth being the tiger).
Imagine an aggresive suitor who thinks he's about to get what he wants from her, only to be rapemurdered instead. Oh wait, we don't have to imagine, she specifically mentions that the suitor who gave her the statue --- "it didn't turn out the way he wanted" -- said with a sort of smug malice that makes it clear she "blew his mind".
D.Kain wrote...
Killjoy Cutter wrote...
She's talking about the joy she derives from hunting, manipulating, deceiving, and killing.
Of course a victim can also be an opponent. "That dog thought I was a sheep, and I let him think it until he had me cornered", said by a tiger (Morinth being the tiger).
Imagine an aggresive suitor who thinks he's about to get what he wants from her, only to be rapemurdered instead. Oh wait, we don't have to imagine, she specifically mentions the suitor who gave her the statue --- "it didn't turn out the way he wanted" -- said with a sort of smug malice that makes it clear she "blew his mind".
Only in the statue comment she is talking about an aggresive suitor. Both sword and chess are about people that clearly had problems with her, aka mercs, thugs, Samara.
Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 06 octobre 2011 - 07:13 .
Killjoy Cutter wrote...
D.Kain wrote...
Killjoy Cutter wrote...
She's talking about the joy she derives from hunting, manipulating, deceiving, and killing.
Of course a victim can also be an opponent. "That dog thought I was a sheep, and I let him think it until he had me cornered", said by a tiger (Morinth being the tiger).
Imagine an aggresive suitor who thinks he's about to get what he wants from her, only to be rapemurdered instead. Oh wait, we don't have to imagine, she specifically mentions the suitor who gave her the statue --- "it didn't turn out the way he wanted" -- said with a sort of smug malice that makes it clear she "blew his mind".
Only in the statue comment she is talking about an aggresive suitor. Both sword and chess are about people that clearly had problems with her, aka mercs, thugs, Samara.
And so we're back to the same kind of crap as "But her hand fell so she must not have wanted to kill Shepard!"You have these wonky interpretations of the events that start from the assumption of Morinth not being a monster, and only make sense from that starting point.
Modifié par D.Kain, 06 octobre 2011 - 07:21 .
D.Kain wrote...
Killjoy Cutter wrote...
D.Kain wrote...
Killjoy Cutter wrote...
She's talking about the joy she derives from hunting, manipulating, deceiving, and killing.
Of course a victim can also be an opponent. "That dog thought I was a sheep, and I let him think it until he had me cornered", said by a tiger (Morinth being the tiger).
Imagine an aggresive suitor who thinks he's about to get what he wants from her, only to be rapemurdered instead. Oh wait, we don't have to imagine, she specifically mentions the suitor who gave her the statue --- "it didn't turn out the way he wanted" -- said with a sort of smug malice that makes it clear she "blew his mind".
Only in the statue comment she is talking about an aggresive suitor. Both sword and chess are about people that clearly had problems with her, aka mercs, thugs, Samara.
And so we're back to the same kind of crap as "But her hand fell so she must not have wanted to kill Shepard!"You have these wonky interpretations of the events that start from the assumption of Morinth not being a monster, and only make sense from that starting point.
Yes because I have a starting point of Morinth being treated unfair and being forced into seclusion or death. It's very clear when a person was given all the rights and freedom, that if that person kills, then that person is a monsterr. But when a person was not given freedom and all right then I can't judge that person on what that person did, and that person would most likely make a different choice and have a different life. As I said I would kill Morinth without a second thought if it weren't for her being forced into seclusion, or hunted because she refused.
And her killing Shepard is suicidal.
Killjoy Cutter wrote...
And so we're back to this nonsense that Morinth was somehow abused, and back to the nonsense that her being abused is justification or excuse for all the random uninvolved people she's killed since she ran.
You know what it takes to show what kind of deeply self-absorbed, predatory, empathyless monster Morinth is? Nef. Just Nef. Naive, sensitive, lonely artist, absolutely innocent of any wrongdoing towards Morinth -- who is picked out, seduced, manipulated, and then rapemurdered by Morinth.
There's your victim.
The irony of Morinth's path is that every person she rapemurders is another datapoint demonstrating that the Asari were right about her to begin with.
FullmetalJ wrote...
It isn't a black and white choice. Samara has a far bigger bodycount than Morinth. Morinth isn't technically moral, but it could be seen that Samara was negligent as a mother and its her fault that she turned out that way. One could also see her as a victim.
Really though, we arn't given enough information to make a "black or white" choice, it's more of a choice on the fly.
Also, I don't think there'd be a negative to the choice. Only thing I can think of is that if morinth told everyone that you helped her kill her mother, which would make it a bit harder to recruit the whole asari race. Which she wouldn't, because her only loyalty is to shepard "because he's special".
AnAccountWithNoName wrote...
FullmetalJ wrote...
It isn't a black and white choice. Samara has a far bigger bodycount than Morinth. Morinth isn't technically moral, but it could be seen that Samara was negligent as a mother and its her fault that she turned out that way. One could also see her as a victim.
Really though, we arn't given enough information to make a "black or white" choice, it's more of a choice on the fly.
Also, I don't think there'd be a negative to the choice. Only thing I can think of is that if morinth told everyone that you helped her kill her mother, which would make it a bit harder to recruit the whole asari race. Which she wouldn't, because her only loyalty is to shepard "because he's special".
Actually there is enough info to make a black or white choice. Bioware went the route of showing how evil Morinth was. Im sure they had it in mind, that betraying Samara for the Monster was evil.
D.Kain wrote...
Killjoy Cutter wrote...
And so we're back to this nonsense that Morinth was somehow abused, and back to the nonsense that her being abused is justification or excuse for all the random uninvolved people she's killed since she ran.
You know what it takes to show what kind of deeply self-absorbed, predatory, empathyless monster Morinth is? Nef. Just Nef. Naive, sensitive, lonely artist, absolutely innocent of any wrongdoing towards Morinth -- who is picked out, seduced, manipulated, and then rapemurdered by Morinth.
There's your victim.
The irony of Morinth's path is that every person she rapemurders is another datapoint demonstrating that the Asari were right about her to begin with.
So forced into locked away place or being hunted is not being abused?
I don't want Morinth to kill anymore innocent people, it can stop without her being killed. There are other places where Morinth can be useful and not kill innocents. But first I have to take care of the justicars.
Again, you know nothing about Nef... But even if Nef is innocent, she died because of asari regulations.
I see it exactly the opposite. The fact that Morinth killed means that Morinth should have been allowed to live freely, so that she wouldn't do that.
D.Kain wrote...
Killjoy Cutter wrote...
And so we're back to this nonsense that Morinth was somehow abused, and back to the nonsense that her being abused is justification or excuse for all the random uninvolved people she's killed since she ran.
You know what it takes to show what kind of deeply self-absorbed, predatory, empathyless monster Morinth is? Nef. Just Nef. Naive, sensitive, lonely artist, absolutely innocent of any wrongdoing towards Morinth -- who is picked out, seduced, manipulated, and then rapemurdered by Morinth.
There's your victim.
The irony of Morinth's path is that every person she rapemurders is another datapoint demonstrating that the Asari were right about her to begin with.
So forced into locked away place or being hunted is not being abused?
I don't want Morinth to kill anymore innocent people, it can stop without her being killed. There are other places where Morinth can be useful and not kill innocents. But first I have to take care of the justicars.
Again, you know nothing about Nef... But even if Nef is innocent, she died because of asari regulations.
I see it exactly the opposite. The fact that Morinth killed means that Morinth should have been allowed to live freely, so that she wouldn't do that.
Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 07 octobre 2011 - 02:57 .
Asenza wrote...
It's not her circumstances, it's her reaction to her circumstances. Morinth could have just accepted her fate of seclusion. She could have even still run away, and not rape/murdered people. But no, rape and murder away through the centuries. She's free NOW and she's still killing people.
What do you mean we know nothing about Nef? We had her diary, a note from Morinth, her artwork... Nef isn't the one on trial for murder. Way to go, blaming the dead person for the serial killer's actions.
Killjoy Cutter wrote...
Who killed Nef? Morinth. Who is responsible for Nef's death? Morinth. Just Morith, all Morinth, and no one but Morinth.
By the time we get to the timeframe of the ME games, death is a merciful end for Morinth, as opposed to what would actually constitute some semblence of justice for her countless victims. Nothing that was ever done to Morinth justifies even a single rapemurder of an innocent person. Each rapemurder was proof that the Asari were right to lock her away. If she had run and not rapemurdered anyone, and the Asari had still kept hunting her down to kill her, then you'd have a case for Morinth. But you don't.
There's no saving Morinth, no fixing Morinth, no redemption for Morinth. She is a remorseless, pityless, manipulative rapist and murderer. If there were a Hell, then she'd be headed straight there.
http://badspot.us/im...-Seduction.html
D.Kain wrote...
Asenza wrote...
It's not her circumstances, it's her reaction to her circumstances. Morinth could have just accepted her fate of seclusion. She could have even still run away, and not rape/murdered people. But no, rape and murder away through the centuries. She's free NOW and she's still killing people.
What do you mean we know nothing about Nef? We had her diary, a note from Morinth, her artwork... Nef isn't the one on trial for murder. Way to go, blaming the dead person for the serial killer's actions.
Morinth had NO right choice. ALL of her choices except the one she made, got her screwed up. I am not going to screw up in this choice too. Accepting her fate of seclusion was a BAD choice. She probably couldn't run and not murder at the same time. She is free after I killed Samara, haven't killed anyone yet.
Morinth is not a serial killer. I don't know enough about Nef, and it doesn't even matter.
Modifié par Asenza, 06 octobre 2011 - 08:06 .
Asenza wrote...
You're wrong. She DID have a choice.
Morinth's choices:
1- submit to seclusion.
2- run away and live peacefully (i.e not rape/murder hundreds, maybe thousands)
3- run away AND rape/murder hundreds, maybe thousands.
Annnnd Morinth chose.... 3!
The A-Y disorder only results in the death of the Ardat-Yakshi's partner during sex. Sex, for an individual, is not necessary for their continued existence. She did not have to kill anyone, ever. Morinth did not need to kill people to live (as evidenced by her sisters peaceful continued existence). Morinth just wanted to kill people.
You're only avoiding the issue of Nef entirely, because you can't justify Morinth's murder of her. Nef didn't "pursue" Morinth, she wasn't a merc trying to kill her, or a Justicar trying to end her murderous career. She was just a lonely, struggling artist on Omega, and Morinth killed her because she could, because it was fun. Not because the asari-government forced Morinth to.
Modifié par D.Kain, 06 octobre 2011 - 08:10 .