3434 réponses à ce sujet

[Seboist]

GodWood wrote...

Seboist wrote...
My Shepard only kept the data to use it as leverage against the Krogan.

You kept some unfinished data that's [apparently] 'years away' from completion to use as leverage against the krogan.

Reasonable.

Actively wanting to cure the genophage though?
That's insane.

Yep, while my Shepard considers Wrex a good friend and is favorable to the Krogan she's not convinced his plans will last or that they won't be a threat down the line.

The genophage data is part of her master plan to dangle a carrot in the form of an (alleged) cure to the Krogan to use them against the three council races. :happy:

[Dave of Canada]

1136342t54 wrote...

In a way it does. The problem is that it seems to actually kills the young instead of making them utterly incapable of bearing hundreds of kids. Most actually die in still birth. They would actually need a genophage or a cure that just makes it so they can just produce an amount similar to humans or greater than to be sufficient for stable population growth but it eliminates the actual children that die in still birth.

I'd assume the only way to eliminate the still birth would be by genetically altering all the Krogan, which I doubt could be capable of happening.

[1136342t54_]

Dave of Canada wrote...
The "it's unfair to judge the Rachni because of the rest of her species" is also odd, Rachni have the memories of their ancestors and the entire species tried to eliminate the galaxy, the Rachni Queen could easily be duping Commander Shepard because she has the exact same memory of every other member of her "family". Unless you firmly believe every other Rachni were somehow "good".

Not sure about this one. Although they share the same memories I doubt they share the same motives exactly. Plus it is heavily implied the Rachni were indoctrinated. Even so I didn't like the decision and would have rather the Council sent a team to secure the Rachni queen.

[1136342t54_]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'd assume the only way to eliminate the still birth would be by genetically altering all the Krogan, which I doubt could be capable of happening.

It wouldn't be impossible. The Salarians are likely capable of it. The problem is that the level of genetic engineering is illegal.

[Seboist]

Dave of Canada wrote...

ddv.rsa wrote...

How do you respond?

Briefly ignoring my hate of the worship of innocence.

Krogan don't deal with overpopulation like everybody else, they are extremely violent and breed extremely quickly to large groups. To suggest they'll get used to the overpopulation is stupid, they'd overwhelm the galaxy with their numbers extremely quickly. The genophage was created to give them "normal" birth rates equal to every other species, the difference is that the Krogan are too busy killing each other to actually grow as a species.

The "it's unfair to judge the Rachni because of the rest of her species" is also odd, Rachni have the memories of their ancestors and the entire species tried to eliminate the galaxy, the Rachni Queen could easily be duping Commander Shepard because she has the exact same memory of every other member of her "family". Unless you firmly believe every other Rachni were somehow "good".

Also the Rachni are incompatible with Galactic civilization and their nature of being fast breeding expansionist insects just guarantees them to be nothing but a headache down the line.

The Rachni are one of the few alien species that's truely...... alien and not one that may as well be humans in a costume.

[1136342t54_]

Rachni can populate many in hospitable planets and make there habitats underground. They could easily go off the grid and live surprisingly well. Plus I doubt the average rachni lives that long. Maybe a few years or decades tops.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

AlexXIV wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Morinth seems to mind control the victim when she gets them to her apartment basically.

Edit: Its more mind rape than actual physical rape.

Question is if people voluntarily take the drugs. I mean just if you have taken drugs before sex, you haven't been raped. Only if it happend without your consent.

Wrong. That's called Date Rape. If one took drugs and did not consent to sex (as in being almost unconscious) it is still rape. There is no such thing as implied consent.

---------

A fast breeding fast populating species should have a short lifespan. This is the problem with the Krogan. They are very long lived, AND they populate quickly. That would quickly put a planet into an overpopulation scenario of starvation. Even if they were to take over the galaxy, eventually they would have to control their own population. A genophage is the only way. I agree with Mordin about this. But I also think that keeping that data would help for modifying the genophage to temporarily increase birth rates after the reaper wars.

The rachni should be a short lived species, but we know so little about them. At least they aren't the species on LV426..... there needs to be a planet with the designation of LV426 just for fun.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 28 septembre 2011 - 12:02 .

[Biotic Sage]

@ D.Kain

It would be one thing if she was sacrificing people for her own survival, but she isn't. The closest analogy would be a heroin addict whose only way to get heroin is to kill people and steal it. In my mind, that's not an excuse. Maybe it's not your fault you got addicted to heroin, because you grew up in the projects and that's the only avenue you knew of, but if we didn't protect the rest of society from dangerous individuals, regardless of if they are responsible for being dangerous, there would be chaos. And sure, there might be better ways for Asari society to deal with Ardat-Yakshi, but I challenge you to think of one that gives full freedom to an Adrat-Yakshi while at the same time upholding the social contract any government has with its citizens to protect the innocent.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 28 septembre 2011 - 01:02 .

[D.Kain]

@ BioticSage

Morinth's fixes helps her to become stronger and to survive Samara. I really am not sure that she is going to back to killing RANDOM people after Samara is dead. She enjoys melding, but I don't think she enjoys killing.

[D.Kain]

Ardat-Yakshi sorta like mages in Dragon age. Only nobody knows about them.

[111987]

D.Kain wrote...

@ BioticSage

Morinth's fixes helps her to become stronger and to survive Samara. I really am not sure that she is going to back to killing RANDOM people after Samara is dead. She enjoys melding, but I don't think she enjoys killing.

But since melding=killing, she will go back to that lifestyle. She can't help herself. Hell, she tried to seduce Shepard.

[Biotic Sage]

@ D.Kain

If you can show me one example or piece of evidence that Morinth feels ANY remorse over killing anyone, then please enlighten me. The only indication I see with Morinth is at best complete apathy about killing, and at worst a sadistic predatory attitude.

Your argument that she needs to survive Samara is interesting, but ultimately if she possessed any empathy at all, she wouldn't have begun killing in the first place and thus Samara would not be hunting her. She was not backed into a corner, she was offered a complacent life or serial-killer on the run. I admit, this is not an appealing choice to make, and it certainly isn't FAIR that she was born that way, but pragmatically that's the way things are and there are other innocent people out there who make that way of handling things necessary.

The mage comparison is also interesting, and one I thought of before myself.  That is a much more compelling argument.  I think what DA2 tried to show us, though, is that the Templar way of absolute oppression is not the best way, and the Mage laissez-faire way is also not the best (i.e. innocent people getting killed by unchecked blood magic; e.g. Tevintar Imperium).  There must be some sort of middle ground.  Maybe an accountabilabuddy for every mage; mages grow up under Circle training but they are also allowed out of the Tower or Gallows as long as they bring a friend (a Templar friend haha).

All of this Ardat-Yakshi general discussion doesn't do anything for your original argument of relating to Morinth though.  If you relate to a character, you cannot cherry-pick around a character's primary attribute, and in Morinth's case this is being a remorsless, sociopathic serial killer.  Fact and indisputable.  Arguing for Ardat-Yakshi rights is a separate issue.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 28 septembre 2011 - 01:23 .

[1136342t54_]

Here we go again.

[Absafraginlootly]

I think there should be a difference, if you chose morinth then you have a conversation with morinth in ME3 and if you chose samara you have a conversation with her instead. But I don't think there should be any positive or negatve effects that we see, if there are any then the obvious would be morinth killing people again, but that is something that logic tells us will happen once she leaves you, so there isn't really much of a need to put that ingame.

[D.Kain]

Biotic Sage wrote...

@ D.Kain

If you can show me one example or piece of evidence that Morinth feels ANY remorse over killing anyone, then please enlighten me. The only indication I see with Morinth is at best complete apathy about killing, and at worst a sadistic predatory attitude.

Your argument that she needs to survive Samara is interesting, but ultimately if she possessed any empathy at all, she wouldn't have begun killing in the first place and thus Samara would not be hunting her. She was not backed into a corner, she was offered a complacent life or serial-killer on the run. I admit, this is not an appealing choice to make, and it certainly isn't FAIR that she was born that way, but pragmatically that's the way things are and there are other innocent people out there who make that way of handling things necessary.

She doesn't talk about remorse because she is rational, because she knows what she is doing. Although when Shepard died her backshot pose looked like she had remorse. 

Samara is hunting Morinth for her existance. I think that Morinth would live a celebate life out of seclusion if nobody came after her. And she probably BECAME addicted because she started killing for her survival, and now she became the predator herself. Although her comment on the chess game was about Samara I think. 

Maybe she also want to kill people to purposely ****** of the justicars for trying to kill her or imprison her. And they indeed are responsible. 

It's all like a snowball that comes to her thinking that her life is more important than others ( and note that not her melding life ). It is a pretty natural though. The most sad thing is that it all could have been avoided. 
I don't really know how to adress her issues, but I know that she is good to my Shepard so she is not my direct problem.

[Biotic Sage]

D.Kain wrote...

Samara is hunting Morinth for her existance. I think that Morinth would live a celebate life out of seclusion if nobody came after her. And she probably BECAME addicted because she started killing for her survival, and now she became the predator herself. Although her comment on the chess game was about Samara I think. 

This is false.  She already made that decision.  She was given the decision to live a celebate life in seclusion just like Samara's other daughters.  She chose to live free and kill people.  What you are saying is that it played out like this:

Justicars: You have a choice Morinth.  You can accept a secluded, comfortable life in which you are not completely free, or you can go on the run and we have to kill you.
Morinth: Screw that!  That isn't fair!  I'm going on the run because freedom is the most important thing to me!
[5 months later]
Morinth: I wish I could live a secluded, peaceful life.  If only these Justicars weren't chasing me, then I could!

[D.Kain]

Biotic Sage wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Samara is hunting Morinth for her existance. I think that Morinth would live a celebate life out of seclusion if nobody came after her. And she probably BECAME addicted because she started killing for her survival, and now she became the predator herself. Although her comment on the chess game was about Samara I think. 

This is false.  She already made that decision.  She was given the decision to live a celebate life in seclusion just like Samara's other daughters.  She chose to live free and kill people.  What you are saying is that it played out like this:

Justicars: You have a choice Morinth.  You can accept a secluded, comfortable life in which you are not completely free, or you can go on the run and we have to kill you.
Morinth: Screw that!  That isn't fair!  I'm going on the run because freedom is the most important thing to me!
[5 months later]
Morinth: I wish I could live a secluded, peaceful life.  If only these Justicars weren't chasing me, then I could!

Check the highlight again. a free life.

Modifié par D.Kain, 28 septembre 2011 - 01:30 .

[Biotic Sage]

D.Kain wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Samara is hunting Morinth for her existance. I think that Morinth would live a celebate life out of seclusion if nobody came after her. And she probably BECAME addicted because she started killing for her survival, and now she became the predator herself. Although her comment on the chess game was about Samara I think. 

This is false.  She already made that decision.  She was given the decision to live a celebate life in seclusion just like Samara's other daughters.  She chose to live free and kill people.  What you are saying is that it played out like this:

Justicars: You have a choice Morinth.  You can accept a secluded, comfortable life in which you are not completely free, or you can go on the run and we have to kill you.
Morinth: Screw that!  That isn't fair!  I'm going on the run because freedom is the most important thing to me!
[5 months later]
Morinth: I wish I could live a secluded, peaceful life.  If only these Justicars weren't chasing me, then I could!

Check the highlight again. a free life.

Ah.  So a free life, but still not free to mind meld or live in populated areas?  Isn't that kind of oxymoronic?  If she would be fine with that, then she would've been fine with the Justicars' original ultimatum.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 28 septembre 2011 - 01:34 .

[D.Kain]

Biotic Sage wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Samara is hunting Morinth for her existance. I think that Morinth would live a celebate life out of seclusion if nobody came after her. And she probably BECAME addicted because she started killing for her survival, and now she became the predator herself. Although her comment on the chess game was about Samara I think. 

This is false.  She already made that decision.  She was given the decision to live a celebate life in seclusion just like Samara's other daughters.  She chose to live free and kill people.  What you are saying is that it played out like this:

Justicars: You have a choice Morinth.  You can accept a secluded, comfortable life in which you are not completely free, or you can go on the run and we have to kill you.
Morinth: Screw that!  That isn't fair!  I'm going on the run because freedom is the most important thing to me!
[5 months later]
Morinth: I wish I could live a secluded, peaceful life.  If only these Justicars weren't chasing me, then I could!

Check the highlight again. a free life.

Ah.  So a free life, but still not free to mind meld or live in populated areas?  Isn't that kind of oxymoronic?

Well if you are treated like a person, why not treat others like people too? 

[Biotic Sage]

@ D.Kain

Well-argued, about as well as a pretty clear-cut issue like this can be argued, but I still disagree with your assessment of Morinth. I'm not convinced; all of the evidence points the other way. I still maintain that if she would accept the level of freedom you are proposing, then she would have just accepted the Justicars' original ultimatum. It's really the same thing, the only difference is a matter of semantics.

So we will have to agree to disagree I suppose.

[D.Kain]

Imagine this:

Imagine a young boy with the same condition.

Mother: I know you want to have sex with girls like other boys, but if you do that they will die.
Boy: oh...ok I guess it would be bad.. a shame. Ok I'm gonna go to the club to hangout woth friends.
Mother: No you won't, there could be sexy girls there.
Boy: ok then I'm gonna go to the pool.
Mother: No you won't, there could be sexy girls there.
Boy: so what? I just want to have fun!
Mother: It's too risky!
Boy: No! I'm going to have fun anyway, like it or not!
Mother: then I will kill you!
Boy: Well screw you! Some love you are showing me..I will survive! Oh and you know what else? I'm gonna have sex with some girls!

[D.Kain]

jreezy wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Imagine this:

Imagine a young boy with the same condition.

Mother: I know you want to have sex with girls like other boys, but if you do that they will die.
Boy: oh...ok I guess it would be bad.. a shame. Ok I'm gonna go to the club to hangout woth friends.
Mother: No you won't, there could be sexy girls there.
Boy: ok then I'm gonna go to the pool.
Mother: No you won't, there could be sexy girls there.
Boy: so what? I just want to have fun!
Mother: It's too risky!
Boy: No! I'm going to have fun anyway, like it or not!
Mother: then I will kill you!
Boy: Well screw you! Some love you are showing me..I will survive! Oh and you know what else? I'm gonna have sex with some girls!

Good job disproving your defense of Morinth.

Well now we know that we just do not agree on fundamental things. Because I don't think it's disproving.

[Biotic Sage]

D.Kain wrote...

Imagine this:

Imagine a young boy with the same condition.

Mother: I know you want to have sex with girls like other boys, but if you do that they will die.
Boy: oh...ok I guess it would be bad.. a shame. Ok I'm gonna go to the club to hangout woth friends.
Mother: No you won't, there could be sexy girls there.
Boy: ok then I'm gonna go to the pool.
Mother: No you won't, there could be sexy girls there.
Boy: so what? I just want to have fun!
Mother: It's too risky!
Boy: No! I'm going to have fun anyway, like it or not!
Mother: then I will kill you!
Boy: Well screw you! Some love you are showing me..I will survive! Oh and you know what else? I'm gonna have sex with some girls!

We've already been over this.  I have considered it.  You have considered it and I have considered it.  We have reached different conclusions.  Life's not fair for somebody.  In that scenario it's either not going to be fair for that one little boy, or it's not going to be fair for the public at large who is put at risk.

[D.Kain]

Biotic Sage wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Imagine this:

Imagine a young boy with the same condition.

Mother: I know you want to have sex with girls like other boys, but if you do that they will die.
Boy: oh...ok I guess it would be bad.. a shame. Ok I'm gonna go to the club to hangout woth friends.
Mother: No you won't, there could be sexy girls there.
Boy: ok then I'm gonna go to the pool.
Mother: No you won't, there could be sexy girls there.
Boy: so what? I just want to have fun!
Mother: It's too risky!
Boy: No! I'm going to have fun anyway, like it or not!
Mother: then I will kill you!
Boy: Well screw you! Some love you are showing me..I will survive! Oh and you know what else? I'm gonna have sex with some girls!

We've already been over this.  I have considered it.  You have considered it and I have considered it.  We have reached different conclusions.  Life's not fair for somebody.  In that scenario it's either not going to be fair for that one little boy, or it's not going to be fair for the public at large who is put at risk.

But don't you think that it is better for people to exept risks of other people and be carring as a WHOLE big society towards everyone? Rather then everyone just conserned with their own safety and put down anyone who is potententiolly dangerous without giving them a chance?