3434 réponses à ce sujet

[D.Kain]

Kileyan wrote...

She kills people because that is what she does. She doesn't kill people because her mommy treated her badly, she doesn't kill people because she is being hunted down by her mommy. She is hunted down because she kills people.

I'm guessing you think Morinth would be a perfect person in society if only we would understand her, and she would never have killed anyone if only her mother would have been a better mother or something?

Dude, she is a killer and has been for several hundred years. She isn't even a merc or a soldier, she is hunting artists and kids. She is hunting your little sister, just because she has some aptitude for playing awesome music on the keyboard.

She is a nasty thing that not only kills people for fun, but kills the brightest and best people when she can.

But yeh, it is only because her mom didn't love her enough, or society didn't give her enough freedom that she does these things.

Well yeah.

And I guess she just gets better power boost if she melds with someone with a more evolved mind.

[D.Kain]

Dunstan wrote...

D.Kain is still not shifting from his stance defending Morinth then, although I do not agree with what you're defending I do admire your relentless devotion.

I'm not even doing it for fun. I am actually sometimes pissed at how people think of Morinth. 

[BlueMagitek]

D.Kain wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

I'm trying to figure out something; what makes Morinth's life so much more valuable than the people that she's killing? You can claim "she's doing it to protect herself", but what makes her life so much more valuable than her victims? Heck, if she's going to go around killing people (or turning them into mindless slaves and throwing them at her enemies), why shouldn't Justicar go after her?

I mean, she doesn't even need to kill those people to survive, yes it is an addiction, but it isn't a necessity like food or water.

Then there's your entire "blame society" argument. Well, while Justicar may be accepted in Asari space and make Asari "fair game" in some twisted view, what about the people outside of it? Morinth's killed more than just Asari, who have no say at all in the Lawful Stupid organization.

But I told you that in my eyes she does that because she is pissed and wants to live. Nothing makes her better than those she kills, but she is not the one responsible of it, the Justcars are. I killed Samara for Nef.

But Samara isn't forcing Morinth to kill anyone.  She isn't forcing her to enslave a village of Asari or forcing her to enjoy the "hunt" of her prey.  All Samara is doing is forcing Morinth to run. 

And once again you avoid the questions; why is Morinth's life so much more important than everyone elses?  Why did she coerce a village of Asari to her will? 

In fact, if all Morinth has to do is gather power by mind melding, why does she hunt at all?  She gets a power boost with each mind meld, heading out to a world or even a city full of crime & poverty she could rack up power very quickly and not be noticed if she shot the body afterwards.  That'd give her more than enough power to take on her mother, wouldn't it?  But I'll answer my own question; she hunts because she enjoys it.  She doesn't do it for the power boost, she does it for the rush, for the staving off of her addiction.  And do you know what?  She'd be doing it even if Justicar didn't exist. 

You'd think that in 400 years Morinth has been in a lot of places, including lowtowns with a lot of thugs that she killed.

We will see what Morinth is going to do in ME3, now that Samara is dead. Hopefully no more Justicars will show up, but most likely they will.

See, you aren't addressing what I'm bringing up. 

1)  What makes Morinth's life so much more important than everyone elses?
2)  How does Samara (or any other Justicar, really) force Morinth to kill people?
3)  How does Samara (or any other Justicar) force Morinth to mentally enslave a village of Asari?

And once again you aren't answering my point, you're trying to side track it.

1) She probably has been a lot of places in 400 years.
2) Considering that we see that she's attracted to secluded minds that are capable of producing things in one way or another, why do you assume she went after thugs when they don't fit her preferred prey?
3) Why does she need to hunt when her mind meld is almost instant and she gets a power boost either way?

[SandTrout]

D.Kain wrote...

I'm not even doing it for fun. I am actually sometimes pissed at how people think of Morinth.

You mean treating her like a murdering sociopath?

Because that is exactly what she is.

Modifié par SandTrout, 28 septembre 2011 - 05:40 .

[D.Kain]

BlueMagitek wrote...

See, you aren't addressing what I'm bringing up. 

1)  What makes Morinth's life so much more important than everyone elses?
2)  How does Samara (or any other Justicar, really) force Morinth to kill people?
3)  How does Samara (or any other Justicar) force Morinth to mentally enslave a village of Asari?

And once again you aren't answering my point, you're trying to side track it.

1) She probably has been a lot of places in 400 years.
2) Considering that we see that she's attracted to secluded minds that are capable of producing things in one way or another, why do you assume she went after thugs when they don't fit her preferred prey?
3) Why does she need to hunt when her mind meld is almost instant and she gets a power boost either way?

a) 1) Right now her awesome power that can help save the galaxy. There are not so many people with such great power as Morinth. And the fact that she was treated less important than many other people.
2) By trying to find her and kill her.
3) Same as 2. It actually worked. Morinth escaped while Samara dealt with that village, and also Morinth got power.

1) Yes. 
2) I assume that she went to alot of people depending on circumstances, and where was Samara at the time. 
3) Because apperantly it requires one to open his mind to you. All Asari ask you to relax and let them in before embracing eternity. 

[Homey C-Dawg]

Interesting discussion in this thread.

I personally see Morinth as someone who chose to be a cold blooded killer. She could have lived out her life in peace like her sisters (it sounds like they are able to live together without killing each other). Morinth chose the path of death, knowing full well the destruction and loss of life she would inflict on the galaxy. I understand her plight, but she still gets no sympathy from me.

TBH, I also see Samara as a self-chosen cold blooded killer as well. Imposing such a strict and deadly moral code on other lifeforms who do not share (or are even aware of) said code has absolutely no place in a multi-cultural society. Someone almost a thousand years old should know that it is immoral and simply wrong to do so.

Like mother like daughter I suppose.

[BlueMagitek]

D.Kain wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

See, you aren't addressing what I'm bringing up. 

1)  What makes Morinth's life so much more important than everyone elses?
2)  How does Samara (or any other Justicar, really) force Morinth to kill people?
3)  How does Samara (or any other Justicar) force Morinth to mentally enslave a village of Asari?

And once again you aren't answering my point, you're trying to side track it.

1) She probably has been a lot of places in 400 years.
2) Considering that we see that she's attracted to secluded minds that are capable of producing things in one way or another, why do you assume she went after thugs when they don't fit her preferred prey?
3) Why does she need to hunt when her mind meld is almost instant and she gets a power boost either way?

a) 1) Right now her awesome power that can help save the galaxy. There are not so many people with such great power as Morinth. And the fact that she was treated less important than many other people.
2) By trying to find her and kill her.
3) Same as 2. It actually worked. Morinth escaped while Samara dealt with that village, and also Morinth got power.

1) Yes. 
2) I assume that she went to alot of people depending on circumstances, and where was Samara at the time. 
3) Because apperantly it requires one to open his mind to you. All Asari ask you to relax and let them in before embracing eternity. 

1)  And for the four hundred years she was out killing and ruining the lives of other people, why was her life more important than every other life out there?  And she *is* weaker than Samara, despite having four hundred years worth of lives to buff her strength.
2)  No, that gives her a few options: 1 - submit to justice (of the planet or of the Justicar), 2 - flee, 3 - give in to her addiction and feed, gaining more power. She chose the third one.
3)  She could have fed and moved on, but instead mind washed an entire village that ended up worshipping her and tossed them at her foes the moment things went awry.  She doesn't get any power from the worship.  How is she any different from Jacob's father?
4)  Blaming Samara or the Justicar for Morinth's actions is placing the blame on the wrong person.  They did not order Morinth to take lives or to brainwash people.  They did not threaten her into taking lives.  No, they pursued her.  Were they right to pursue her?  Depends on your point of view, but the point is, she decided to take the lives of others in order to enhance her own.  She made that choice on her own.  You don't blame the police for a murderer shooting a bystander in an attempt to get away, do you?
5)  The murder is addictive for her.  That's made clear, it's like a drug. 

~

2)  We are told (and see firsthand) that Morinth prefers a specific type of person that doesn't fit the "Thug" persona.  Once again you aren't answering a question.
3)  If that's the case, why have the hunt when she can just pose as a prostitute or a dancer?  Because she's a predator!  She enjoys the hunt, she enjoys the kill.  She's obviously doing it for pleasure.

[D.Kain]

jreezy wrote...

D.Kain is trolling. It's so obvious I'm wondering why people are still having conversations with him.

This trolling thing is overrated. Seriously, write a letter to bioware to ban my account or something if you have nothing more to say. I've been on here for 2 years, care to post links to thread where I was trolling, other then threads that were made for fun? 

[D.Kain]

BlueMagitek wrote...

1)  And for the four hundred years she was out killing and ruining the lives of other people, why was her life more important than every other life out there?  And she *is* weaker than Samara, despite having four hundred years worth of lives to buff her strength.
2)  No, that gives her a few options: 1 - submit to justice (of the planet or of the Justicar), 2 - flee, 3 - give in to her addiction and feed, gaining more power. She chose the third one.
3)  She could have fed and moved on, but instead mind washed an entire village that ended up worshipping her and tossed them at her foes the moment things went awry.  She doesn't get any power from the worship.  How is she any different from Jacob's father?
4)  Blaming Samara or the Justicar for Morinth's actions is placing the blame on the wrong person.  They did not order Morinth to take lives or to brainwash people.  They did not threaten her into taking lives.  No, they pursued her.  Were they right to pursue her?  Depends on your point of view, but the point is, she decided to take the lives of others in order to enhance her own.  She made that choice on her own.  You don't blame the police for a murderer shooting a bystander in an attempt to get away, do you?
5)  The murder is addictive for her.  That's made clear, it's like a drug. 

~

2)  We are told (and see firsthand) that Morinth prefers a specific type of person that doesn't fit the "Thug" persona.  Once again you aren't answering a question.
3)  If that's the case, why have the hunt when she can just pose as a prostitute or a dancer?  Because she's a predator!  She enjoys the hunt, she enjoys the kill.  She's obviously doing it for pleasure.

1) The same reason why her life was less important then the life of other asari that wanted her to live in seclusion. What comes around goes around. She wasn't weaker than Samara. If she was weaker I wouldn't be able to save her from Samara, because Samara would just deal with her.
2) Maybe she doesn't want to flee to the far dark edges of the galaxy because it would basically be the same as seclusion?
3) Maybe she went into the village and when people found out that she was an Ardat-Yakshi wanted to get rid of her, and she got pissed. We don't really know enough about that village. But it served her survival purpose.
4) Justicars and Samara threatened her life, which pushed her to do certain things. They are to blame. I actually think that Ardat-Yakshi lack empathy because they are shown little.
5) Yes killing brings her physical pleasure. I still believe that a healthy relationship could overshroud that. 
6) Again you don't know that. You only know little about Morinth's life. 
7) I think she has more selfesteem. She is indeed a predator that was made by the Justicars. She is doing it for pleasure, but it is not all she wants in life, it was the best thing that she had after everything that happened, until Shepard. But hey she also loves art and music, games, so she manages to enjoy her life for a little while in all of that chaos.

[Homey C-Dawg]

Dunstan wrote...

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

Interesting discussion in this thread.

I personally see Morinth as someone who chose to be a cold blooded killer. She could have lived out her life in peace like her sisters (it sounds like they are able to live together without killing each other). Morinth chose the path of death, knowing full well the destruction and loss of life she would inflict on the galaxy. I understand her plight, but she still gets no sympathy from me.

TBH, I also see Samara as a self-chosen cold blooded killer as well. Imposing such a strict and deadly moral code on other lifeforms who do not share (or are even aware of) said code has absolutely no place in a multi-cultural society. Someone almost a thousand years old should know that it is immoral and simply wrong to do so.

Like mother like daughter I suppose.

If my memory isn't wrong she only became a Justicar to stop Morinth, since they're above the law it granted her the freedom to achieve her goal without fear of prosecution. And if that's correct I can imagine that 400 years as a Justicar will turn you into a cold-blooded killer, the only other way she could go by finding Morinth without the law getting in the way would be to become a Spectre, but I doubt Samara is Spectre material.

If memory serves I think your right about her becoming a justicar to catch morinth, except that as a justicar she has to uphold that ridiculous code with anyone she comes across. She almost killed that cop for doing her job, and the cop wasn't doing anything bad or illegal, just following orders. Samara didn't care one bit. She was gonna kill an honest innocent simply for getting in her way. Those are the actions of a villian. As noble as Samara makes herself out to be, I tend to see her as heartless and cold blooded.

Just my opinion of her of course.

[D.Kain]

jreezy wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

jreezy wrote...

D.Kain is trolling. It's so obvious I'm wondering why people are still having conversations with him.

This trolling thing is overrated. Seriously, write a letter to bioware to ban my account or something if you have nothing more to say. I've been on here for 2 years, care to post links to thread where I was trolling, other then threads that were made for fun? 

Doesn't matter how long you've been here. And no, I will not be writing a letter, I don't want you banned. You're defense just comes off as "trollish", not too serious, just for lulz, whatever you want to call it.

Well sorry, I might be naive then, but for now I just do not see my error in regards to Morinth. 

[Swimming Ferret]

I find it hilarious how people scream "Troll!" all the time when others are defending something they can't get their heads around.

And people forget that Samara isn't noble. She is an upholder of justice; justice isn't all warm and fluffy, no matter what some idealists care to imagine.

[ddv.rsa]

Swimming Ferret wrote...

And people forget that Samara isn't noble. She is an upholder of justice; justice isn't all warm and fluffy, no matter what some idealists care to imagine.

But it makes her predictable. She swears an oath to you, and you know you can count on it. On the other hand all you know about Morinth is that she's a serial killer. Why take her over a Justicar?

Modifié par ddv.rsa, 28 septembre 2011 - 07:58 .

[D.Kain]

ddv.rsa wrote...

Swimming Ferret wrote...

And people forget that Samara isn't noble. She is an upholder of justice; justice isn't all warm and fluffy, no matter what some idealists care to imagine.

But it makes her predictable. She swears an oath to you, and you know you can count on it. On the other hand all you about Morinth is that she's a serial killer. Why take her over a Justicar?

I have a list on page 6 in this thread.

[Swimming Ferret]

jreezy wrote...
I don't think anyone who's really paid attention would choose Morinth over Samara and honestly think that's the safer choice.

The only time I picked Morinth was with my Psycho Renegade Femshep. Why? Because both are psychos and my Shep wanted another BFF besides Jack to kick ass with. Morinth is gonna be her succubus assassin. I hope you can sic her on Udina or maybe even Kelly in ME3.

[Pockles]

Morinth murders people by having sex with them, and she does it for funsies, and she has the hots for Shepard, and you're letting her on your ship. Please follow this to its natural conclusion.

[ddv.rsa]

Pockles wrote...

Morinth murders people by having sex with them, and she does it for funsies, and she has the hots for Shepard, and you're letting her on your ship. Please follow this to its natural conclusion.

I suppose she's useful to keep around as a backup plan, in case the Reapers win. It's a much better way to go than being turned into goo.

[MagicGis]

Ok ..to join the discussion. In the playthrough I am gonna import since I love the shepard I created in ME1, I saw no way to not kill off Samara.

A little backround Information, my Shep is neither pure Renegade nor Paragon, I tried to not think too much and just doo what felt right in this situation sometimes regreting it. It turned out a little more Renegade than Para. That was enough for Samara to be unbearable.

here are the reasons:

1.) My Shep killed a lot of people, sometimes it was a mistake ... but Samara its so disgusting how she openly states that she will wipe out the security officers, for completly no reason. The officer seems really ok she protects this place for the sake of her people (which are samaras btw too) it is even worse than killing innocent people she basicly wants to kill of our allies in the try to save the galaxy.

2.) As more as I run through missions with her I got the feeling that her black/white view of things is just no good for the big goal. I will not loose the galaxy to the reapers because she has a problem with  beating information out of a random guy. She totally misses out the big picture.

3.) Basiclly she totally emotionless kills off everyone in her path... but is on a constant rant about how other crew mates do that.

4.) After a particular Mission (not sure which one I think when the Doc killed of his former assistant) she told me I made her watch unbearable stuff and so she hopes we dont see each other or she kills me off. Not very cool...I try to save your  species too here... I am not xenophobe basicly I often favour the non humans.

5.) She constantly threatens other  Crew members, while some are may understandable (jack) and with some I just dont care (thane)... I can not allow her to kill off half of my crew if she feels like her duty is over..again, while this people have a maybe terrible past, they now try to get the most important job in history done with me, and they are loyal.... For example Jack doesnt state that she wants to kill off half my crew 8and we all know she would enjoy it)

6.) In Talis Mission at the Flottila she basicly threatens Tali for her missbehaivor when my Shep got her out of the trouble. Wtf...  with this her fate was set in stone.

In fact I think no one in my crew of Assasins and Freaks is on a killing spree like Samara, even Morinth is at least intelligent enough to have a plan, and watching Samara in her Missions I am pretty sure Morinth will kill way less people in the long run. Also she seems easier to control and less dangerous for the mission. Sometimes you have to do unpleasent things to save the galaxy, and with Samara around thats just not possible. Which means I didnt pick the evil choice... I made the right choice... for the safety of the galaxy, and the fight against the reapers.:innocent: