RhiPanda wrote...
Samara wouldn't have found her if she wasn't killing peopple because there would not have been a trail, if she had changed her name and just lived her life without killing Samara most likely would not have found her.
D.Kain wrote...
essarr71 wrote...
RhiPanda wrote...
She was only hunted by Samara because she killed people, so not even having to lay low, just no killing people would have kept her from ebing found by Samara.
Actually, she's hunted regardless of what she does. That she DOES kill people just justifies it.
It's the outcome of being hunted. lol
essarr71 wrote...
you've been struggling, admirally, against the logic for a long time now. I think a lot of your points would hold more weight if Morinth showed some indication that she wasn't a monster. Regardless of who she is, what her motivations are, or her intentions, she's a cold-blooded killer... and, frankly, the only crew member who can kill Shepard. That should say something.
Do we know the gritty details of her entire backstory? no. But we do know her kinds history, we have Samara's testimonies, and we have the Nev diaries and Aria's accounts. Your arguments are based on assumptions you've admitted to have gathered on your own.
Willingly or not, she shouldn't be allowed to roam the universe depriving teenage girls of fun nights out at clubs. You're pretty much siding with a serial killer because the alternative for them is living a long life alone.
D.Kain wrote...
RhiPanda wrote...
Samara wouldn't have found her if she wasn't killing peopple because there would not have been a trail, if she had changed her name and just lived her life without killing Samara most likely would not have found her.
I agree, it is possible, but it is a wild chance. Morinth thought that she would rather be strong and be prepeared, and get rid of Samara afterwards.
RhiPanda wrote...
D.Kain wrote...
RhiPanda wrote...
Samara wouldn't have found her if she wasn't killing peopple because there would not have been a trail, if she had changed her name and just lived her life without killing Samara most likely would not have found her.
I agree, it is possible, but it is a wild chance. Morinth thought that she would rather be strong and be prepeared, and get rid of Samara afterwards.
You have no idea what Morinth thought though, the arguments you are using to defend Morinth are coming from ideas you have come up with yourself, not from any in-game evidence
RhiPanda wrote...
D.Kain wrote...
RhiPanda wrote...
Samara wouldn't have found her if she wasn't killing peopple because there would not have been a trail, if she had changed her name and just lived her life without killing Samara most likely would not have found her.
I agree, it is possible, but it is a wild chance. Morinth thought that she would rather be strong and be prepeared, and get rid of Samara afterwards.
You have no idea what Morinth thought though, the arguments you are using to defend Morinth are coming from ideas you have come up with yourself, not from any in-game evidence
No she wouldn't have lived peacefully. She was hunted for running away and refusing to be imprisoned for crimes she might commit or basically for being born with a birth defect. She had no choice but to kill people to become strong enough to fight off Asari commandos and the persistent Justicar because if she was caught after running away, she would have been killed even if she had been abstinate. They made her become a monster and she just accepted that and ran with it.Killjoy Cutter wrote...
If Morinth had run and never killed anyone, they never would have found her. She could have had some plastic surgery, found a quiet planet, and lived their for 1000 years undisturbed.
But she didn't do that. She kept murdering people. She's a remorseless, compulsive predator.
Modifié par Biotic Sage, 28 septembre 2011 - 08:16 .
silentassassin264 wrote...
No she wouldn't have lived peacefully. She was hunted for running away and refusing to be imprisoned for crimes she might commit or basically for being born with a birth defect. She had no choice but to kill people to become strong enough to fight off Asari commandos and the persistent Justicar because if she was caught after running away, she would have been killed even if she had been abstinate. They made her become a monster and she just accepted that and ran with it.Killjoy Cutter wrote...
If Morinth had run and never killed anyone, they never would have found her. She could have had some plastic surgery, found a quiet planet, and lived their for 1000 years undisturbed.
But she didn't do that. She kept murdering people. She's a remorseless, compulsive predator.
And as far as the topic title, if they make Morinth betray you that would make me royally pissed. If anything, she should be your most loyal squadmate. With your own freewill you killed (or rather helped kill) Samara for her. Shepard is like the best shield she could get against any retribution seeking Asari for her numerous crimes she committed. She should stay by Shepard's side for practicality's sake if anything else.
silentassassin264 wrote...
No she wouldn't have lived peacefully. She was hunted for running away and refusing to be imprisoned for crimes she might commit or basically for being born with a birth defect. She had no choice but to kill people to become strong enough to fight off Asari commandos and the persistent Justicar because if she was caught after running away, she would have been killed even if she had been abstinate. They made her become a monster and she just accepted that and ran with it.Killjoy Cutter wrote...
If Morinth had run and never killed anyone, they never would have found her. She could have had some plastic surgery, found a quiet planet, and lived their for 1000 years undisturbed.
But she didn't do that. She kept murdering people. She's a remorseless, compulsive predator.
silentassassin264 wrote...
No she wouldn't have lived peacefully. She was hunted for running away and refusing to be imprisoned for crimes she might commit or basically for being born with a birth defect. She had no choice but to kill people to become strong enough to fight off Asari commandos and the persistent Justicar because if she was caught after running away, she would have been killed even if she had been abstinate. They made her become a monster and she just accepted that and ran with it.Killjoy Cutter wrote...
If Morinth had run and never killed anyone, they never would have found her. She could have had some plastic surgery, found a quiet planet, and lived their for 1000 years undisturbed.
But she didn't do that. She kept murdering people. She's a remorseless, compulsive predator.
And as far as the topic title, if they make Morinth betray you that would make me royally pissed. If anything, she should be your most loyal squadmate. With your own freewill you killed (or rather helped kill) Samara for her. Shepard is like the best shield she could get against any retribution seeking Asari for her numerous crimes she committed. She should stay by Shepard's side for practicality's sake if anything else.
Biotic Sage wrote...
@ Everyone
No one is going to convince D.Kain that his current Morinth perspective is illogical and wrong, despite citing evidence, pointing out fallacies, and analyzing D.Kain's biased opinion. At this point it's better to just let it alone and let him have his unsubstantiated opinion.
@ D.Kain
You aren't going to convince anyone else that your perspective is correct.
This whole argument is an exercise in futility, and is a waste of time considering that there are actually subjective topics out there that merit argument/discussion.
essarr71 wrote...
silentassassin264 wrote...
No she wouldn't have lived peacefully. She was hunted for running away and refusing to be imprisoned for crimes she might commit or basically for being born with a birth defect. She had no choice but to kill people to become strong enough to fight off Asari commandos and the persistent Justicar because if she was caught after running away, she would have been killed even if she had been abstinate. They made her become a monster and she just accepted that and ran with it.Killjoy Cutter wrote...
If Morinth had run and never killed anyone, they never would have found her. She could have had some plastic surgery, found a quiet planet, and lived their for 1000 years undisturbed.
But she didn't do that. She kept murdering people. She's a remorseless, compulsive predator.
Sooo, we're rewriting the codex now?
It's an addictive condition. If there are Ardat-yakshi that even CAN abstain, Morinth clearly can't.
These pro-morinth arguments work better as a "if only" and not a "because of". See Morinth as a hero all you want, you're not looking at her from the right angle. Hell, your only interaction with her is her trying to kill you, then offering to help only after her own life is in danger... sounds like a swell team member.. go for it!
D.Kain wrote...
Biotic Sage wrote...
@ Everyone
No one is going to convince D.Kain that his current Morinth perspective is illogical and wrong, despite citing evidence, pointing out fallacies, and analyzing D.Kain's biased opinion. At this point it's better to just let it alone and let him have his unsubstantiated opinion.
@ D.Kain
You aren't going to convince anyone else that your perspective is correct.
This whole argument is an exercise in futility, and is a waste of time considering that there are actually subjective topics out there that merit argument/discussion.
It's just about those things that we talked about. We will probly not come to the conclusion, because it just goes down to you(and some others) wanting to lock people up for your safety and me not wanting to do that.
But yeah, I am just sharing my opinion at WHY I think Morinth is an ok choice, because some don't see it at all. I can see your side and understand it. I will not tell you that your point is wrong, it is just something that I would not do.
Modifié par Biotic Sage, 28 septembre 2011 - 08:26 .
D.Kain wrote...
essarr71 wrote...
silentassassin264 wrote...
No she wouldn't have lived peacefully. She was hunted for running away and refusing to be imprisoned for crimes she might commit or basically for being born with a birth defect. She had no choice but to kill people to become strong enough to fight off Asari commandos and the persistent Justicar because if she was caught after running away, she would have been killed even if she had been abstinate. They made her become a monster and she just accepted that and ran with it.Killjoy Cutter wrote...
If Morinth had run and never killed anyone, they never would have found her. She could have had some plastic surgery, found a quiet planet, and lived their for 1000 years undisturbed.
But she didn't do that. She kept murdering people. She's a remorseless, compulsive predator.
Sooo, we're rewriting the codex now?
It's an addictive condition. If there are Ardat-yakshi that even CAN abstain, Morinth clearly can't.
These pro-morinth arguments work better as a "if only" and not a "because of". See Morinth as a hero all you want, you're not looking at her from the right angle. Hell, your only interaction with her is her trying to kill you, then offering to help only after her own life is in danger... sounds like a swell team member.. go for it!
Only 3 Ardat-Yakshi that Samara knows. Everything that is written in the codex is the same as Samara is stating.
2 of them are not even killing. How would she know if it is even addicting? It can be, but I don't know for one.
She wanted to kill you because she thought you were just another clubing ''interesting'' idiot.
Rewriting the codex? Samara specifically says that running away proved her addiction. Regardless of what she did when she ran away she was already guilty because it was presumed she was going to kill people to get stronger. Then with a powerful Justicar chasing her, her options consist of being abstinate, getting caught, dying horribly or kill as much as possible to get strong enough to catch up with the strength of the Justicar trying to kill you. It isn't rocket science to figure out why she picked the option she did.essarr71 wrote...
silentassassin264 wrote...
No she wouldn't have lived peacefully. She was hunted for running away and refusing to be imprisoned for crimes she might commit or basically for being born with a birth defect. She had no choice but to kill people to become strong enough to fight off Asari commandos and the persistent Justicar because if she was caught after running away, she would have been killed even if she had been abstinate. They made her become a monster and she just accepted that and ran with it.Killjoy Cutter wrote...
If Morinth had run and never killed anyone, they never would have found her. She could have had some plastic surgery, found a quiet planet, and lived their for 1000 years undisturbed.
But she didn't do that. She kept murdering people. She's a remorseless, compulsive predator.
Sooo, we're rewriting the codex now?
It's an addictive condition. If there are Ardat-yakshi that even CAN abstain, Morinth clearly can't.
These pro-morinth arguments work better as a "if only" and not a "because of". See Morinth as a hero all you want, you're not looking at her from the right angle. Hell, your only interaction with her is her trying to kill you, then offering to help only after her own life is in danger... sounds like a swell team member.. go for it!
silentassassin264 wrote...
Rewriting the codex? Samara specifically says that running away proved her addiction. Regardless of what she did when she ran away she was already guilty because it was presumed she was going to kill people to get stronger. Then with a powerful Justicar chasing her, her options consist of being abstinate, getting caught, dying horribly or kill as much as possible to get strong enough to catch up with the strength of the Justicar trying to kill you. It isn't rocket science to figure out why she picked the option she did.essarr71 wrote...
silentassassin264 wrote...
No she wouldn't have lived peacefully. She was hunted for running away and refusing to be imprisoned for crimes she might commit or basically for being born with a birth defect. She had no choice but to kill people to become strong enough to fight off Asari commandos and the persistent Justicar because if she was caught after running away, she would have been killed even if she had been abstinate. They made her become a monster and she just accepted that and ran with it.Killjoy Cutter wrote...
If Morinth had run and never killed anyone, they never would have found her. She could have had some plastic surgery, found a quiet planet, and lived their for 1000 years undisturbed.
But she didn't do that. She kept murdering people. She's a remorseless, compulsive predator.
Sooo, we're rewriting the codex now?
It's an addictive condition. If there are Ardat-yakshi that even CAN abstain, Morinth clearly can't.
These pro-morinth arguments work better as a "if only" and not a "because of". See Morinth as a hero all you want, you're not looking at her from the right angle. Hell, your only interaction with her is her trying to kill you, then offering to help only after her own life is in danger... sounds like a swell team member.. go for it!
silentassassin264 wrote...
Rewriting the codex? Samara specifically says that running away proved her addiction. Regardless of what she did when she ran away she was already guilty because it was presumed she was going to kill people to get stronger. Then with a powerful Justicar chasing her, her options consist of being abstinate, getting caught, dying horribly or kill as much as possible to get strong enough to catch up with the strength of the Justicar trying to kill you. It isn't rocket science to figure out why she picked the option she did.
111987 wrote...
If all Morinth was trying to do was kill her mother, why spend 400 years trying to mate with enough people and became powerful enough? Why not just lay a trap, hire assassins, blow up the ship she's on, etc...? There were other options for Morinth to take.
She is clearly addicted. If her only motivation was to become powerful enough to defeat Samara, why wouldn't she say that to Shepard to try and win him/her over?
Biotic Sage wrote...
It's not "wrong" in the sense that you are using the word. No perspective is "wrong" because absolutism and ideas about morality/ethics are human constructions. However, your perspective is wrong from a social standpoint, from a humanist standpoint, and from the ethical system you yourself are using to make your argument. In all of those ways it is just logically wrong. No offense meant, but that is a fact.
D.Kain wrote...
111987 wrote...
If all Morinth was trying to do was kill her mother, why spend 400 years trying to mate with enough people and became powerful enough? Why not just lay a trap, hire assassins, blow up the ship she's on, etc...? There were other options for Morinth to take.
She is clearly addicted. If her only motivation was to become powerful enough to defeat Samara, why wouldn't she say that to Shepard to try and win him/her over?
You'd think that in 400 she tried it and not once. Who said she didn't try to kill Samara? But it's not easy.
D.Kain wrote...
Biotic Sage wrote...
It's not "wrong" in the sense that you are using the word. No perspective is "wrong" because absolutism and ideas about morality/ethics are human constructions. However, your perspective is wrong from a social standpoint, from a humanist standpoint, and from the ethical system you yourself are using to make your argument. In all of those ways it is just logically wrong. No offense meant, but that is a fact.
And it's a video game. Where I can do actions that I think are right and not what society thinks is right.
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