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[MagicGis]

jreezy wrote...

MagicGis wrote...
The mission she is talking about is not to defeat the reapers, but to  stop the collectors in the suicide Mission. So if you let her surive this mission. She openly admits that she will try to kill you and various crewmates next time she sees you. Which will be in ME 3. i dont need to explain that this is plain stupid since it puts the entry galaxy in danger.

How?

Seriously ? Since 2 hole games you are the only one in the galaxy doing something (with your crew), alliance...useless, council...useless, spectre ..useless, cerberus.... sometimes usefull but generating more problems than anyone else (overlord ?), the only exception... is the shadowbroker ... and until a little bit ago he wasnt on other site...in fact he supported the enemy quite a bit, and now when it is Liara...it doesnt count anymore since she is also part of the crew ^^

So to my shepard it is plain obvisous that everybody who openly states that he or she will kill him and part of his crew soon ...is a threat to the only chance to beat the reapers, shepard and friends.  Besides it shows she is no use for the mission...because what needs to be done ...needs to be done, if you are not fine with it ...you shouldnt be there ( jeah kai you too).  Morinth on the other hand is no idiot, she is a calculating very intelligent serial killer with a lot of experience that tends to not act reckless. in fact if you look at it this way she is a way saver crewmate than Jack which tends to get all lunatic from time to time... and besides that is a serial killer too. So Morinth is basiclly a more stable Jack, sounds useful.

To the ones saying Samara is bound to Shepard ..I just can say go play the game again, if you act against her codex  she openly states after the arangement you are dead meat. If you listen to her making her oath, she cleary states she is boudn to you until you defeat the collectors. Which is done by the end of the game, so from this point on (ME3) she is a very powerful enemy.

Which person on a quest to save the universe that has a clear mind will keep a person around that openly admits that she will turn against you before the main problems (reaper army) is dealt with ?  Why should you do that ?

Now for the hostage suggestion. It is true she will cooperate as long as you have a hostage but what kind of stupid suggestion is that .

1.) My shepard doesnt take hostages all day only if really necessary.. it seems way less dangerous for innocent to kill this codex serial killer than taking living shields against her all day.

2.) she will wait for a chance and I dont want to carry Hostages around all day

3.) Also i dont want to watch my back I need to have Crewmates that do what is needed.

4.) I dont want to carry hostages in combat situations just so samara does her job O_o

Ok and now for the suggestion to just kill her off in the suicide mission so both are dead. True thing I could do that and it would work out. But.....why ?

1.) Why to kill her in front of all people so I earn the misstrust of my crew, whene I could kill her in private and make up an story about how she is the eviltraitor she is ? (granted the game takes the hilarous , I dress like my mother, road instead but we all know thats stupid)

2.) Why put the suicide mission and all the other crewmates in danger just to get her into a position to get killed ?

3.) Why lower my fighting power on the crew in the future when I can have a extremly powerful and useful agent by my side instead. (espacilly because I have way bigger Lunatics and Mass Murderers around already, Jack, Doc genophage etc.)

4.) Morinth is fascinated by Shepards mental strength and will stick along.

I would preffer an option that doesnt kills her... like ...telling her to get the **** off my ship... but than again...we seen she hunts her prey for hundreds of years so she is maybe on my track than...which would be an unpleasent problem while I try to rescue the galaxy from the reapers. Just because of her goofy codex that tells her to kill off someone who just saved millions of lives (and the howle galaxy in me 1) just because of the way he did it.

Jeah sorry I really dont see why a shepard that she gets in conflict with should keep her alive. Also she kills off people wuite easily whenever she feels like... so i wouldnt consider her ...nice .... either. The apple doesnt fall far from the tree...

[1136342t54_]

silentassassin264 wrote...

I can't cut you any slack if you misrepresent my position. I am not D.Kain. I never said Morinth was innocent as she is quite the contrary. I just disagree with Samara's assessment that Morinth is not a sympathetic case.

Morinth isn't sympathetic. She made her own choices in the manner. Morinth chose to kill period.

Plus Sympathy is when you feel great concern or compassion for the person. I don't feel sympathetic towards Morinth especially the way she is now. I understand the reasons why she escaped but I in no way agree with it or condone it.

[1136342t54_]

MagicGis wrote...
snip

Samara specifically said she would fight Shepard and the Galaxy is a huge place. Samara operates mostly in Asari space. I seriously doubt Shep would find Samara.

Edit: Samara never threatened Shepard before the Suicide Mission and only afterward she said the next time she would meet Shepard she would have to fight Shepard.

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 28 septembre 2011 - 09:47 .

[shep82]

I don't want to read 25 pages but I think I get the gist as to the discussion. Mornith is addicted to the Melding process AFAIK not necessarily the killing but I do think there should be consequences to Killing Samara and saving Mornith.

[MagicGis]

I aslo still dont see how people can get on a 25 pages rant about Morinth and how evil she is, while there is a over 100 pages fan threat for Jack.

Which openly states to crush space stations into planets for fun, murders people because she feels like it, explains in detail how she enjoys, destruction, piracy, murder, etc...

Or for the doc which is basicly part of the SS killing of the babys of an entry race.

Samara, that just puts her codex over everything and enforces her sight of right and wrong with dealdy force even outside of the asari space. Not to mention how she overdoos it like a psycho in the asari space (want to change with that officer)

Not talking about mr self justice Garrus ... Assasin Thane, I do kill my Grandmother for Money Zaeed...etc.

At least Morinth is addicted, whoever had an addiction once themself knows how much of a problem that can be even with easy stuff like tobaco... now I am sure her Problem is bigger.

Also she is kinda tragic and I agree that the treatment of her in the Asari culture is terrible, you cant just lock up guys because they maybe once have a higher chance to be dangerous, a killer, a terrorist, whatever... before they acutally did something, thats just plain disgusting and the people doing it deserver punishment.

In fact its even more justifiying than Jacks backround (which is not nice too), still they are both just serial killers, so I dont see how one gets some fanboys, while the other gets people that troll everybody that doesnt look at it from samars black and white view.

[Biotic Sage]

@ MagicGis

Jack should be in a rehabilitation center.

Samara should be stopped.

Miranda should pose for inter-stellar playboy.

None of this changes the fact that Morinth is a serial-killer and should be locked up. Ardat-Yakshi get the short end of the stick, but better them (the few) than the rest of society (the many). Maybe if they were forced to register as Ardat-Yakshi and get visibly TAGGED as Ardat-Yakshi, it would be acceptable to let them live their lives like everyone else. That way, other people would have fair warning to not have sex with these people.  But there is really no win-win solution.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 28 septembre 2011 - 10:21 .

[1136342t54_]

MagicGis wrote...
Or for the doc which is basicly part of the SS killing of the babys of an entry race.

Mordin did that to actually save the Krogan race. If they were able to reproduce to full capacity again they would eventually try to attack the galaxy forcing everyone to kill off the Krogan. Mordin heavily regrets his decision but it was a right one.

Samara, that just puts her codex over everything and enforces her sight of right and wrong with dealdy force even outside of the asari space. Not to mention how she overdoos it like a psycho in the asari space (want to change with that officer)

No different than a Spectre. The only times she was forced to kill innocents was to find Morinth. The other times she was forced to let Nihlus go to save a civillian.

Not talking about mr self justice Garrus

Yep he attempted to help innocents that isn't bad at all.

... Assasin Thane,

Government assassin who was trained since he was 8 and had to kill when he was 12.  Not good but I don't entirely blame him for it. His entire species sees Hanar as there saviours so he will kill for them.

I do kill my Grandmother for Money Zaeed...etc.

Not much argument there. Zaeed kills for money but at least I know where his loyalties lie.

At least Morinth is addicted, whoever had an addiction once themself knows how much of a problem that can be even with easy stuff like tobaco... now I am sure her Problem is bigger.

Also she is kinda tragic and I agree that the treatment of her in the Asari culture is terrible, you cant just lock up guys because they maybe once have a higher chance to be dangerous, a killer, a terrorist, whatever... before they acutally did something, thats just plain disgusting and the people doing it deserver punishment.

No one isn't saying Morinth isn't tragic. In fact Samara said Morinth was a tragic figure but how else would you handle the Ardat Yakshi situation? They aren't normal people at all. If one murders someone they get stronger faster and smarter. Its far more difficult to catch and kill one everytime they murder. I doubt police are equipped to handle that threat. Think about what happens if the rest of the Galaxy hear about that the Asari have freaking succubi in there species. Its better politically and just plane safe to keep Ardat Yakshi in conclusion. I don't necessarily like it but its the best the decision.

In fact its even more justifiying than Jacks backround (which is not nice too), still they are both just serial killers, so I dont see how one gets some fanboys, while the other gets people that troll everybody that doesnt look at it from samars black and white view.

The problem I have with Morinth is that she is resourceful enough to escape captivity possibly without using her power. If she did that she could easily stay off the grid and live her life quite comfortably. The only way Samara seem to track her is due to Morinth's killings. If she stopped killing its quite possible Samara would never find her.

[MagicGis]

Biotic Sage wrote...

@ MagicGis

Jack should be in a rehabilitation center.

Samara should be stopped.

Miranda should pose for inter-stellar playboy.

None of this changes the fact that Morinth is a serial-killer and should be locked up. Ardat-Yakshi get the short end of the stick, but better them (the few) than the rest of society (the many). Maybe if they were forced to register as Ardat-Yakshi and get visibly TAGGED as Ardat-Yakshi, it would be acceptable to let them live their lives like everyone else. That way, other people would have fair warning to not have sex with these people.  But there is really no win-win solution.

Again no one says she is no serial killer. Also it is true Samara could follownher because of her killings.

The problem here is... what happend to her before. While I am also not a fan blamimng everything on society its perfectly justified. They get looked up all her live for something they never did,  and get told, they will do it thats why the can not be free. Of course they do it if they get free... you encoraged them all their life, and basicly made them belive they are monsters. With a normal treatment thats maybe different, this way of treatment at least makes that reaction way more likely.

I not even talk about your mark the jews idea...everybody should know why that is crap...

In the same way its crap to look up people before they do something.  You dont prejudge people, it is wrong, always. That are fasicst methods at their very best and if you think that is right you maybe should review your opinion.  While Morinth clearly deserves to be locked up now, it was just a terrible crime when it was done to her before she started killing.

And on the Doc.. if he still would think it was right I think his charakter would not allow him to regret it. Also I see no problem for the Krogans if everyone fights them, in fact they love it, and they where about to win until the genophage... so I really fail to see how that helped the Krogans. It maybe helped the Salarians and Turians...
The Doc knows it and so should you, in the end killing Billions of people, no matter for what reason is always wrong and makes you a monster. A monster I am happy to have in my squad though ^^

[SandTrout]

I skipped the last 5 or so pages, but has anyone brought up the point that at any time, if Morinth chose to stop killing, her trail would go cold very rapidly and Samara would not be able to track her any more?

The only reason that Samara is even capable of tracking down Morinth is because Morinth keeps killing.

[Biotic Sage]

SandTrout wrote...

I skipped the last 5 or so pages, but has anyone brought up the point that at any time, if Morinth chose to stop killing, her trail would go cold very rapidly and Samara would not be able to track her any more?

The only reason that Samara is even capable of tracking down Morinth is because Morinth keeps killing.

That was brought up.  Pretty much everything was brought up in this thread, and then brought up again.  Morinth supporters are still convinced that their Morinth support is justified.

[Monochrome Wench]

What happened to force her to run away is largely irrelevant. The Asari might be wrong in the way they treated her, but it does not justify the actions she later took. If she killed those attempting to track her down it may be justified but it wasn't. She killed innocents.

She is not innocent because she didn't intend to kill her victims.
She is guilty because she knew her actions would kill them.

You can not do something that you know will kill people as a side effect.

Modifié par Monochrome Wench, 29 septembre 2011 - 06:34 .

[Biotic Sage]

MagicGis wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...

@ MagicGis

Jack should be in a rehabilitation center.

Samara should be stopped.

Miranda should pose for inter-stellar playboy.

None of this changes the fact that Morinth is a serial-killer and should be locked up. Ardat-Yakshi get the short end of the stick, but better them (the few) than the rest of society (the many). Maybe if they were forced to register as Ardat-Yakshi and get visibly TAGGED as Ardat-Yakshi, it would be acceptable to let them live their lives like everyone else. That way, other people would have fair warning to not have sex with these people.  But there is really no win-win solution.

I not even talk about your mark the jews idea...everybody should know why that is crap...

In the same way its crap to look up people before they do something.  You dont prejudge people, it is wrong, always. That are fasicst methods at their very best and if you think that is right you maybe should review your opinion.  While Morinth clearly deserves to be locked up now, it was just a terrible crime when it was done to her before she started killing.

Yeah, comparing the Ardat-Yakshi plight to the Holocaust doesn't work for a multitude of reasons; please work out what these reasons are yourself, it's easy to do.  If you read my entire post, I said that there is no win-win situation when it comes to Ardat-Yakshi.  I brought up the registration idea because it is literally one of the only other feasible solutions, I didn't say, "This is definitely the best way!"  Please, be my guest; I invite you to think of a better way.  I would love to hear your ideas.  But for the love of god don't say, "Just let them live like everyone else!" because that is not valid, I'm sorry.  That would just be committing an injustice against others, so if you favor justice for Ardat-Yakshi, then why would you be ok with others not receiving it?  Don't you see the illogic in your solution to getting rid of injustice?  Yeah, great, you got rid of injustice for one group.  Nevermind that you just pawned it off on another.  (haha I feel like Meredith in Dragon Age 2 here: "If there is a better way then please show me!  But don't condemn me if you can't think of a better way yourself!")

As for prejudging people, there is no pre-judgment with Ardat-Yakshi.  There is post-judgment, as in making informed decisions based off of facts and evidence that clearly show they would be endangering innocents if allowed complete social freedom. 

One final note: you need to look up the definition of Fascism because these are not fascist methods, they are logical government/social steps taken to keep citizens safe, which is in fact a government's duty under social contract.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 29 septembre 2011 - 06:49 .

[AlexXIV]

Biotic Sage wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

I skipped the last 5 or so pages, but has anyone brought up the point that at any time, if Morinth chose to stop killing, her trail would go cold very rapidly and Samara would not be able to track her any more?

The only reason that Samara is even capable of tracking down Morinth is because Morinth keeps killing.

That was brought up.  Pretty much everything was brought up in this thread, and then brought up again.  Morinth supporters are still convinced that their Morinth support is justified.

I guess it's true that some people only see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe. I for one like neither Samara nor Morinth much, they could both die in a fire for all I care. But even I can understand the difference between a serial killer and someone who kills to stop serial killers. I mean a 4 years old could see that. So I'd have to assume that people who are smart enough to post in this forum and write eloquently are not too stupid to understand this difference.

[Swimming Ferret]

I would probably be more inclined to agree with those who say that Morinth is a monster if they weren't constantly and childishly attacking those defending her. :/ Seriously you guys.

[AlexXIV]

Swimming Ferret wrote...

I would probably be more inclined to agree with those who say that Morinth is a monster if they weren't constantly and childishly attacking those defending her. :/ Seriously you guys.

Well I wouldn't mind people defending her if they used reason. I could come up with a few things to say in Morinth's defense, but honestly, with all the people defending her in the way I saw it here I am in no mood to give them more fuel.

[Yezdigerd]

Really how old are people here?
People defend Morinth for the same reason people claim to be Satanists or N azis, other people give them attention.

Modifié par Yezdigerd, 29 septembre 2011 - 11:04 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

It's amazing how many people played ME2 and evidently didn't pay one damn bit of attention to what was actually going on, to any details... must be a lot of people who skipped all sorts of conversations, never opened the codex, never clicked on a single terminal or datapad to hear or read journals, notes, etc...

I'm seeing it in several different threads now, and frankly it's pathetic and sad watching some people argue vehemently for positions that are directly contradicted by the game, claim that things make no sense that are fully explained in the game, etc...

[Killjoy Cutter]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Like I said before, the defenders feel Morinth is not responsible for her actions.

Or in at least one case, believe that Morinth is more important and special than her victims. 

[dreman9999]

MagicGis wrote...

I aslo still dont see how people can get on a 25 pages rant about Morinth and how evil she is, while there is a over 100 pages fan threat for Jack.

Which openly states to crush space stations into planets for fun, murders people because she feels like it, explains in detail how she enjoys, destruction, piracy, murder, etc...

Or for the doc which is basicly part of the SS killing of the babys of an entry race.

Samara, that just puts her codex over everything and enforces her sight of right and wrong with dealdy force even outside of the asari space. Not to mention how she overdoos it like a psycho in the asari space (want to change with that officer)

Not talking about mr self justice Garrus ... Assasin Thane, I do kill my Grandmother for Money Zaeed...etc.

At least Morinth is addicted, whoever had an addiction once themself knows how much of a problem that can be even with easy stuff like tobaco... now I am sure her Problem is bigger.

Also she is kinda tragic and I agree that the treatment of her in the Asari culture is terrible, you cant just lock up guys because they maybe once have a higher chance to be dangerous, a killer, a terrorist, whatever... before they acutally did something, thats just plain disgusting and the people doing it deserver punishment.

In fact its even more justifiying than Jacks backround (which is not nice too), still they are both just serial killers, so I dont see how one gets some fanboys, while the other gets people that troll everybody that doesnt look at it from samars black and white view.

Jack did destory a spacestation for fun or kill any one for fun. The space station thing was revenge on the turians for attack her friend and she kills as a means to survive....Not out of joy.

Now I agree, Morinth is not evil but she is a monster. The story with Samara and Mornith scream greek tragity. A mother who give birth to someone who can only kill and loves that someone so very much and blams her self for her daughters fate, and decided the best with to help her daugher is tokill her daughter so she would stop killing. Andthe fact that Mornith is trpped between a rock and a hard place with how she was born. No matter what she is facted with isolation or destructive freedom.....She has no real choice in the matter even if she is not in the monistary. If she is free and not doing what she did  with all her victems,s he still be isolating herself any way..... Her choice is to be ultimately selfless or ultimately selfish. 

[dreman9999]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Like I said before, the defenders feel Morinth is not responsible for her actions.

The defencers understand she has a choice and is responsible for her actions. We just understand that ishe has very limited choices in her hand to choose.
It's ether self destructive isolation or destructive freedom. Even if Mornith is not in the monistary, he choice are alway destructive isolation or destructive freedom. Let's say that instead of killing anyone after escaping the first time she just trys to live a normal life.....She would have to live a life with no intamacy. No lovers, no one truely close, and no deep interaction with people.She would  living but it would be a very emty life. It would not matter if she was in the monostary or not...She would be very lonly any way. 

The choice she made was just to live her life to the fullest.  She makes the dr.stranglove choice... 
To enbrace the destroction, not hide from it, because it was the only choice that allowed her to truely live.

Modifié par dreman9999, 29 septembre 2011 - 02:04 .

[Valdrane78]

dreman9999 wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Like I said before, the defenders feel Morinth is not responsible for her actions.

The defencersunderstand she has a choice. We just understand that it's a very limited choice.
It's ether isolation or destructive freedom. Even if Mornith is not in the monistary, he choice are alway isolation or destructive freedom. Let's say that instead of killing anyone after escaping the first time she just trys to live a normal life.....She would have to live a life with no intamacy. No lovers, no one truely close, and no deep interaction with people.She would  living but it would be a very emty life. It would not matter if she was in the monostary or not...She would be very lonly any way. 

The choice she made was just to live her life to the fullest.  She makes the dr.stranglove choice... 
To enbrace the destroction, not hide from it, because it was the only choice that allowed her to truely live.

BS, that is complete BS.  She could have gone on the run without goin gon a killign spree.  Was murdering that little girl necessary to her flight, no absolutely not.  She did it because she enjoys it, it has nothing to do with he rbein gon the run. 

So say I am born with a defect of soem sort and I go on the run.  Along the way I come across your mother, and I kill her because I like it.  If your arguement holds together, I did it because it was the only way for me to truely live.  I didn't have to kill her, but I really wanted to.

Does that make any sense whatsoever?

Morinth coudl have just as easily gone into hiding, living below the radar, because it is infact he rpenchant for "dectructive freedom" that gets her caught in the first damn place.  Your logic is flawed, and your common sense is waining.