3434 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Collider wrote...

Uh, she says herself that she loves how her victims have a false sense of security before they die. She likes the killing aspect and having power over her victims.

Yes, she does say that. It clear that she like to have power over someone in the sense she feels she is phyicaly stronger and more skilled then they are or stronger.(She tells you this when she interviews you.)  but the fact remains that she kills everyone in the same way...Sex. She likes traping and luring and goes out of her way to be courted.The fact that they die in the end is still just neglect, like allowing someone to walk over a damage brigde know they will fall in  the casume they are trying to walk over and die. She use neglect to kill. In the end no matter what plasure she gets from trapping her target to her spell, it's the sex that gives her the most plesure. If it was not, then she would kill her target with other means.

[thatguy212]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

I think this topic has reached a stalemate. The only person defending Morinth says she IS a monster, and she DOES deserve killing, and she IS a little bit evil, just not as much as people think. I doubt we're going to change their mind.

Hey, I want to debate this.

I think we've brought up everything. And you hold on to your view. I think we're going in circles.

we could discuss if we should care about her past if she ultimately helps us to be better prepared to stop the collectors and the reapers, i mean shepard has no personal politics in any of this, he usually doesn't go around righting small wrongs, he's more focused on the big picture, so if sparing morinth will lead to being able to save more does it justify not killing her? (for now anyways, after the reapers are defeated go nuts with the shotgun if you want)

[dreman9999]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

I think this topic has reached a stalemate. The only person defending Morinth says she IS a monster, and she DOES deserve killing, and she IS a little bit evil, just not as much as people think. I doubt we're going to change their mind.

Hey, I want to debate this.

I think we've brought up everything. And you hold on to your view. I think we're going in circles.

I haven't really brought up may views on this.You still don't see my point.

[Pockles]

dreman9999 wrote...
Oh, yes...Now it about fun.

Fun feels good, doesn't it? They're synonyms, you silly goose.

dreman9999 wrote...
What do you think courtship is? And Yes it matters what she does. This is a calculated person. She does nothing without a reason. Itnot a hunt if she interview you to see if you are her type. Samara goes into detail about who she likes and what she likes. No matter how you cut it, Mornith would not be a serial killer if she did not have her condition. It more of the fact that her have sex with the person kills them, not her killing them herself...It's negelet.

Morinth knows that anyone she has sex with will die horribly. Ergo, when she has sex with someone, she is killing them. If she didn't want to kill people, she wouldn't have sex with them, but she does, and she doesn't show a hint of remorse.

Morinth would be a sociopath even if she wasn't an ardat yakshi.

[dreman9999]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

I think this topic has reached a stalemate. The only person defending Morinth says she IS a monster, and she DOES deserve killing, and she IS a little bit evil, just not as much as people think. I doubt we're going to change their mind.

Hey, I want to debate this.

I think we've brought up everything. And you hold on to your view. I think we're going in circles.

we could discuss if we should care about her past if she ultimately helps us to be better prepared to stop the collectors and the reapers, i mean shepard has no personal politics in any of this, he usually doesn't go around righting small wrongs, he's more focused on the big picture, so if sparing morinth will lead to being able to save more does it justify not killing her? (for now anyways, after the reapers are defeated go nuts with the shotgun if you want)

He does SOME small wrongs, various side quests. To bring morality into this, a "good" person would feel that if she's actively killing innocents, she doesn't deserve to live. Shep doesn't go out of his way to find her,but when she's right in front of him, in stalemate with her mother, the choice for a "good" person is clear.

dreman9999 wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

I think this topic has reached a stalemate. The only person defending Morinth says she IS a monster, and she DOES deserve killing, and she IS a little bit evil, just not as much as people think. I doubt we're going to change their mind.

Hey, I want to debate this.

I think we've brought up everything. And you hold on to your view. I think we're going in circles.

I haven't really brought up may views on this.You still don't see my point.

Then, by all means, bring up your views. If you haven't brought them up, how can you possibly expect us to understand?

The thing is with debauchery, it brings up perversion in a person. The more they do something wrong and likes it,the more they not only do it but add on to it. Aka, some one who does drugs wants a better high or someone who likes killing tries new thing to the event to make it better.
Mornith on the other hand sticks with one thing....The sex.She only murders people with sex. If she got off from murdering people, why has she not added other mean to do this to other people or prolonging the pain of the person. With Neff, we find she die of an aneurysm, it was instantaneous with no other forms of damage.(As told by her mother and Aria.) No hint is given to any other means of killing the Mornith uses and Samara comferms that Morinth only murders with sex.... So it clear that Mornith is satisfied with hit she gets from sex from that fact she has not added any new form of ending the lives of her victims.
So with that it's clear she just wants the sex, and death is just a byproduct of the sex. It just the sex it self killing the person. If you take her condition from Mornith......It no longer makes her a serial killer because she uses no other form of murdering any one. All the game she use it just to make the hunt better for her, she really just like the sex.
The fact that she know she can kill some one with sex make it more
of a case like neglect.....It's more similar to a person with AIDs knowingly infect some else with HIV through sex. The only true evil act Mornith does is neglect to tell the people she sleeps with the sex with her kills them. She still a bad person for not telling them and is using her condition a the weapon to murder them, but it does not put her on the same level as an embodiment of evil.

[dreman9999]

Pockles wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Oh, yes...Now it about fun.

Fun feels good, doesn't it? They're synonyms, you silly goose.

dreman9999 wrote...
What do you think courtship is? And Yes it matters what she does. This is a calculated person. She does nothing without a reason. Itnot a hunt if she interview you to see if you are her type. Samara goes into detail about who she likes and what she likes. No matter how you cut it, Mornith would not be a serial killer if she did not have her condition. It more of the fact that her have sex with the person kills them, not her killing them herself...It's negelet.

Morinth knows that anyone she has sex with will die horribly. Ergo, when she has sex with someone, she is killing them. If she didn't want to kill people, she wouldn't have sex with them, but she does, and she doesn't show a hint of remorse.

Morinth would be a sociopath even if she wasn't an ardat yakshi.

Again that is neglect. Not being a sociopath. If the act of murdering is what gets her off, why does she not try new ways of killing and prolong the killing of the victem?

[Pockles]

dreman9999 wrote...

Pockles wrote...

Morinth knows that anyone she has sex with will die horribly. Ergo, when she has sex with someone, she is killing them. If she didn't want to kill people, she wouldn't have sex with them, but she does, and she doesn't show a hint of remorse.

Morinth would be a sociopath even if she wasn't an ardat yakshi.

Again that is neglect. Not being a sociopath. If the act of murdering is what gets her off, why does she not try new ways of killing and prolong the killing of the victem?

She has no remorse. She doesn't spare a second thought on her victims after she's done with them. What does that make her, if not a sociopath?

[dreman9999]

Pockles wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Pockles wrote...

Morinth knows that anyone she has sex with will die horribly. Ergo, when she has sex with someone, she is killing them. If she didn't want to kill people, she wouldn't have sex with them, but she does, and she doesn't show a hint of remorse.

Morinth would be a sociopath even if she wasn't an ardat yakshi.

Again that is neglect. Not being a sociopath. If the act of murdering is what gets her off, why does she not try new ways of killing and prolong the killing of the victem?

She has no remorse. She doesn't spare a second thought on her victims after she's done with them. What does that make her, if not a sociopath?

What do you think Neglect is?You think that some one who purposely neglect something has to have remorse over it? If she has no remorse, that it just show  that she did not care what happen to the person because of it. That still makes her a horrible person, but not the super evil serial killer people make her out to be.

[Soul Cool]

dreman9999 wrote...
What do you think Neglect is?You think that some one who purposely neglect something has to have remorse over it? If she has no remorse, that it just show  that she did not care what happen to the person because of it. That still makes her a horrible person, but not the super evil serial killer people make her out to be.

Please, explain why she goes around the galazy deliberately killing people for no easily explainable reason. Unless she does it for fun, which does in fact make her an atrocious, loathsome being that isn't even worth the cost of the energy you/someone else uses to kill her.

[dreman9999]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...
Then, by all means, bring up your views. If you haven't brought them up, how can you possibly expect us to understand?

The thing is with debauchery, it brings up perversion in a person. The more they do something wrong and likes it,the more they not only do it but add on to it. Aka, some one who does drugs wants a better high or someone who likes killing tries new thing to the event to make it better.
Mornith on the other hand sticks with one thing....The sex.She only murders people with sex. If she got off from murdering people, why has she not added other mean to do this to other people or prolonging the pain of the person. With Neff, we find she die of an aneurysm, it was instantaneous with no other forms of damage.(As told by her mother and Aria.) No hint is given to any other means of killing the Mornith uses and Samara comferms that Morinth only murders with sex.... So it clear that Mornith is satisfied with hit she gets from sex from that fact she has not added any new form of ending the lives of her victims.
So with that it's clear she just wants the sex, and death is just a byproduct of the sex. It just the sex it self killing the person. If you take her condition from Mornith......It no longer makes her a serial killer because she uses no other form of murdering any one. All the game she use it just to make the hunt better for her, she really just like the sex.
The fact that she know she can kill some one with sex make it more
of a case like neglect.....It's more similar to a person with AIDs knowingly infect some else with HIV through sex. The only true evil act Mornith does is neglect to tell the people she sleeps with the sex with her kills them. She still a bad person for not telling them and is using her condition a the weapon to murder them, but it does not put her on the same level as an embodiment of evil.

I'm sorry...so you're saying that she's addicted to sex, can't stop having sex, even when it kills people around her?

And I still think she gets off on the killing itself, not the sex. She doesn't have to add new ways because the way she is doing it creates the perfect high; there is no high to top it. The mind-sex-death thing is the highest high she can have.

And not all serial killers take pleasure necessarily in the pain of the person...they take pleasure in the killing of the person. They take pleasure in the feeling of the blade sinking into the chest, of the blood and life seeping out of the body...nothing to do with the victim's emotional state.

And I don't think anyone here is calling her the "embodiment of evil." I'd say she's pretty fr*cken evil, but maybe not the embodiment of it.

If she gets off the killing itself, why has she not murder other people in other ways? If they way she kill them make it so that the pleasure is too good to want to try anything, it still base in  the face she killing them with sex. In the end your saying the sex is too good to try other way to kill. No matter what you say, in the end she still is addicted to the sex since it's the only way she can get the high.
And that's my point. She has to have the sex to get the high, having the sex kills the person. So it not really the murdering she get off on...In the end no matter what, it's the sex. If she has yet to try to murder anyone outside of sex to get her trills, it will alway be bound to the fact she has sex because she like it because it gives her the high and thatsex with her kills people.

Modifié par dreman9999, 30 septembre 2011 - 06:59 .

[dreman9999]

Soul Cool wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
What do you think Neglect is?You think that some one who purposely neglect something has to have remorse over it? If she has no remorse, that it just show  that she did not care what happen to the person because of it. That still makes her a horrible person, but not the super evil serial killer people make her out to be.

Please, explain why she goes around the galazy deliberately killing people for no easily explainable reason. Unless she does it for fun, which does in fact make her an atrocious, loathsome being that isn't even worth the cost of the energy you/someone else uses to kill her.

I never said she is not a horrible person. In fact I agree with the fact that she need to be killed. It's just that I understand that the only reason this happen is because of her condition and she choosed to live her life to the fullest with it. The bad thing about it is that living her life to the fullest means other people will die. I just understand the fact that if anyone of us were with  her condition, we would not be able to judge her so easilly for her actions as we are now.

If she live a normal life with out the condition and still ened up as a serial killer, then I would be first in line to throw the first stone.

Modifié par dreman9999, 30 septembre 2011 - 06:59 .

[dreman9999]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...
Then, by all means, bring up your views. If you haven't brought them up, how can you possibly expect us to understand?

The thing is with debauchery, it brings up perversion in a person. The more they do something wrong and likes it,the more they not only do it but add on to it. Aka, some one who does drugs wants a better high or someone who likes killing tries new thing to the event to make it better.
Mornith on the other hand sticks with one thing....The sex.She only murders people with sex. If she got off from murdering people, why has she not added other mean to do this to other people or prolonging the pain of the person. With Neff, we find she die of an aneurysm, it was instantaneous with no other forms of damage.(As told by her mother and Aria.) No hint is given to any other means of killing the Mornith uses and Samara comferms that Morinth only murders with sex.... So it clear that Mornith is satisfied with hit she gets from sex from that fact she has not added any new form of ending the lives of her victims.
So with that it's clear she just wants the sex, and death is just a byproduct of the sex. It just the sex it self killing the person. If you take her condition from Mornith......It no longer makes her a serial killer because she uses no other form of murdering any one. All the game she use it just to make the hunt better for her, she really just like the sex.
The fact that she know she can kill some one with sex make it more
of a case like neglect.....It's more similar to a person with AIDs knowingly infect some else with HIV through sex. The only true evil act Mornith does is neglect to tell the people she sleeps with the sex with her kills them. She still a bad person for not telling them and is using her condition a the weapon to murder them, but it does not put her on the same level as an embodiment of evil.

I'm sorry...so you're saying that she's addicted to sex, can't stop having sex, even when it kills people around her?

And I still think she gets off on the killing itself, not the sex. She doesn't have to add new ways because the way she is doing it creates the perfect high; there is no high to top it. The mind-sex-death thing is the highest high she can have.

And not all serial killers take pleasure necessarily in the pain of the person...they take pleasure in the killing of the person. They take pleasure in the feeling of the blade sinking into the chest, of the blood and life seeping out of the body...nothing to do with the victim's emotional state.

And I don't think anyone here is calling her the "embodiment of evil." I'd say she's pretty fr*cken evil, but maybe not the embodiment of it.

If she gets off the killing itself, why has she not murder other people in other ways? If they way she kill them make it so that the pleasure is too good to want to try anything, it still base in  the face she killing them with sex. In the end your saying the sex is too good to try other way to kill. No matter what you say, in the end she still is addicted to the sex since it's the only way she can get the high.
And that my point. She has to have the sex to get the high, having the sex kills the person. So it not really themurdering she get off on...In the end no matter what, it's the sex. If she has yet to try to murder anyone out side of sex to get her trills, it will alway be bound to the fact she has sex because she like it because it gives her the high and thatsex with her kills people.

Very false statement, that's like saying a serial killer is addicted to kidnapping people, because he has to do that t get his high.

And it isn't sex, per se, it's the mind-melding. I'm pretty sure it's possible to meld without it being "sex," look at ME1 and Liara. She melds with Shep to examine his head, thoughts if you will, it didn't set off some physiological reaction.

You're too focused on the sex. She kills people because she enjoys KILLING people, and the melding is by FAR the easiest way to do it, along with the incredible high she gets. It's got nothing to do with her wanting sex or intimacy. I'm wondering where you got that idea in the first place.

Your not understanding. Stop looking at serial killers in general and look in just her case alone. If you cut out the fact she kill people by having sex with them...Normal asari sex with them.... What is left to be able to use to call her a serial killer?
And yes, mind melding is sex for asari. http://masseffect.wi...i/Asari#Biology

Modifié par dreman9999, 30 septembre 2011 - 07:19 .

[Pockles]

dreman9999 wrote...

Pockles wrote...

She has no remorse. She doesn't spare a second thought on her victims after she's done with them. What does that make her, if not a sociopath?

What do you think Neglect is?You think that some one who purposely neglect something has to have remorse over it? If she has no remorse, that it just show  that she did not care what happen to the person because of it. That still makes her a horrible person, but not the super evil serial killer people make her out to be.

Say there's a guy that really likes stabbing people. He doesn't intend for them to die because of it, he just likes to stab. Say there's this other guy, he stabs people, but he just does it because he likes to kill.

Is one less morally reprehensible than the other? Does it really matter that their intentions are different, if they both cause senseless deaths because of their desire for gratification?

[dreman9999]

Pockles wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Pockles wrote...

She has no remorse. She doesn't spare a second thought on her victims after she's done with them. What does that make her, if not a sociopath?

What do you think Neglect is?You think that some one who purposely neglect something has to have remorse over it? If she has no remorse, that it just show  that she did not care what happen to the person because of it. That still makes her a horrible person, but not the super evil serial killer people make her out to be.

Say there's a guy that really likes stabbing people. He doesn't intend for them to die because of it, he just likes to stab. Say there's this other guy, he stabs people, but he just does it because he likes to kill.

Is one less morally reprehensible than the other? Does it really matter that their intentions are different, if they both cause senseless deaths because of their desire for gratification?

Your still not understanding. She is only doing this becauseshe is an addict. When she has sex with someone,she get a high from it that compelse her to do it agien. The fact is having sex with someone kills that person. It not the same as stabbing some one to death or stabing anyone.
Why? Because stabbing someone to death and liking it  is because you like the pain you inflict on the person.....only.
With Mornith's case, she is only doing it for the high of sex. She is too high to even care about the other persons pain.

[SandTrout]

dreman9999 wrote...

I sorry, given that the thing she kill with is an inbreed instinctive response to intimacy and attraction, I would have to disagree.

That aspect is not any different than any other form of addiction. Most addicts start their use from a relatively innocent desire, often as a way to self-medicate against depression, bipolar dissorder, or other traumas. Virtually none require the addict to kill someone in front of them every time they use, though.

Stop looking at the fact that she a killer and look more to how she kills....It with sex, not some specific  over the top type of Sex, but regular sex for any Asari.

Yeah, it sucks, but there are plenty of people who go without sex for one reason or another. Granted it is not presented as a life-and-death decision for most people who abstain, but the fact of the repurcussions simply means that Morinth has that much greater reason to abstain.

Look at how the murders you name kill. They use extreme means to get the pleaser for they kills they do.

For them there is usually little difference between killing and sex in terms of psychology. They are sick, twisted individuals.

The want of sex is in every living being. Ill-fated as it is, Mornith has a condition that with regular sex, for an asari, kills her mate...She is not torturing or disfiguring anyone like a other serial killer do... She just has sex with them. It more neglect then being a crazy killer.

The fact that if she has sex she automaticlly kills her partner is tragic. The fact that she considers her own pleasure to be of greater importance than other people's lives is immoral. There are already people in on earth that are in a similar situation as Morinth, though the repercusions are slightly less imediate. They were born with HIV, though their mothers, and can trasmit it to other people if they have sex with them. Yeah, it's a crappy situation, but it doesn't justify them being sexually promiscuous.

Modifié par SandTrout, 30 septembre 2011 - 07:21 .

[Pockles]

dreman9999 wrote...
Your still not understanding. She is only doing this becauseshe is an addict. When she has sex with someone,she get a high from it that compelse her to do it agien. The fact is having sex with someone kills that person. It not the same as stabbing some one to death or stabing anyone.
Why? Because stabbing someone to death and liking it  is because you like the pain you inflict on the person.....only.
With Mornith's case, she is only doing it for the high of sex. She is too high to even care about the other persons pain.

But this guy is psychologically addicted to stabbing people, like he's playing a fun video game. It's so much fun, he has to do it over and over again, and he likes it so much he doesn't care that his victims are dying. In this case, the act of stabbing is interchangable with the ardat yakshi meld.

Even if Morinth doesn't have murderous intentions, she is still murdering people.

Modifié par Pockles, 30 septembre 2011 - 07:27 .

[dreman9999]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Your not understanding. Stop looking at serial killer in general and look in just her case alone. If you cut out the fact she kill people by having sex with them...Normal asari sex with them.... What is left to be able to use to call her a serial killer?
And yes, mind melding is sex for asari. http://masseffect.wi...i/Asari#Biology

To answer your first question, the fact that she obviously enjoys the hunt. That's a mark of a serial killer.
Have you clicked on the various items in her apartment and listened to her? Her statements are clear. For one of them, possibly chess or something, she says, "I love the look in your opponent's eyes when you both know he's going to die." That shows that she enjoys it.
I wish I could remember the exact dialog. Where's didymos when you need 'im.

And you're insistent that her having sex is the reason for people dying. I think killing people is why she has the "sex." Opposite sides of the same coin. Until we get around that, we're stuck.

The hunt is irrelivent. To hunt is not the same as killing. Because she does not kill in hunting. In the end she lures them in and kills them with sex. That is one in the same.
My point is that if she really wasa person that got off on murdingpeople, she would have mor e than one way to kill them. Cut  ou the fact that she kills with sex leaves her with nothing to point to to say she is a serial killer because she uses no otther means to kill.

And I have checked er apartment. The sword brings up the fact she like dualing, which just means she like conflict. Many of your crew is like that. The chess game is a referace that she like to lure people which is one in the same as her lure people to kill them with sex. The krogan statue just shows that she like to be courted. Nothing show that she would be a serial killer if she did not have the condition she has.

[dreman9999]

Pockles wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Your still not understanding. She is only doing this becauseshe is an addict. When she has sex with someone,she get a high from it that compelse her to do it agien. The fact is having sex with someone kills that person. It not the same as stabbing some one to death or stabing anyone.
Why? Because stabbing someone to death and liking it  is because you like the pain you inflict on the person.....only.
With Mornith's case, she is only doing it for the high of sex. She is too high to even care about the other persons pain.

But this guy is psychologically addicted to stabbing people, like he's playing a fun video game. It's so much fun, he has to do it over and over again, and he likes it so much he doesn't care that his victims are dying. In this case, the act of stabbing is interchangable with the ardat yakshi meld.

Even if Morinth doesn't have murderous intentions, she is still murdering people.

Again, that still the joy of causing pain. Anyone that plays GTA  can tell they hurt the people because they get joy from hurting the people.
The act of stabbing is not inter change able with an ardat yakshi meld because they do get pleasure from killing or causing pain, they get it from sex.

Modifié par dreman9999, 30 septembre 2011 - 07:37 .

[dreman9999]

jreezy wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
If you think it goes hand and hand than you really don't understand her at all. Look at who she kills. It's not random people, it people who she is attacted to. She dates them and make them romance her. If it was killing for killing sake, why not just kill random people, why go though the troble of all the hoop jumping?

It's all about the hunt.

Now as for being a remoreless murder regardeless of not having the condition...Could you point me to the murders she has done without having sex with the person?

No I couldn't. You provided the basis for that hypothetical situation since you said something about taking away the Asari sex part. What ifs are pointless in this discussion anyway. We know how she kills and that she enjoys it.

But to hunt does not mean to kill. Not mater how much she hunts she still uses sex to kill. She only has sex because of the high she get's from it, not the joy of killing.
Also, with the question I ask, their is a point. The fact that if she really is killing for the joy of killing, she would kill inother ways out side of sex. If she is using no other forms to kill, then it clear she is just doing it for the sex because of the high she gets. That is neglect.

Modifié par dreman9999, 30 septembre 2011 - 07:41 .