3434 réponses à ce sujet

[Pockles]

dreman9999 wrote...
If you ask" 1.why it matters "go to..
a.It's relivent. WHY? because it's the reason they are doing it.

If you say"2.The reason they are doing it is because it gives them pleasure"  go to

b.Yes, but with stabbing some one to death, it because they like causing pain.
With what mornith does, it just because of the sex.

So if you state 1. go o A.
If you state 2. go to b.
Keep doing that till you get it.

Sociopathy does not neccesitate sadism. Whether or not someone enjoys causing pain, or having sex, does not matter. Either way, they are doing it because of their personal desires, and they don't care about the effects their actions have on their victims. This is, literally, the definition of sociopathy.

If Morinth expressed remorse that she is killing people by melding with them, but she can't stop because she's addicted, then she may merit sympathy. But this is not the case.

Also, sorry for the delay. Needed sleepy time, had other stuff to do.

Modifié par Pockles, 30 septembre 2011 - 08:57 .

[Someone With Mass]

jreezy wrote...
False.

Partially true. The asari sees the mind melding as a different kind of sex.

[essarr71]

Someone With Mass wrote...

jreezy wrote...
False.

Partially true. The asari sees the mind melding as a different kind of sex.

Actually entirely true.  She brainwashed a village to kill her mother.  And I'm assuming no sex was involved with that.

[Gixxer6Rdr]

Dreman9999, yes actually, I could point out how Shepard and Morinth talk about power etc in the bar... or when she mentions it in her apartment.... but eh, why waste my time. 30 plus pages of nerds arguing over the morality of a blatant murderer and sociopath... but like I said earlier, can't change someones else's stubborn opinion, and I don't really care to try. But... since I majored in abnormal/criminal psychology... I actually DO know a sociopath when I see one. But Alan since no doubt you also are an expert on behavioral health, you know better huh? (snicker snicker) Have lots of fun with this pointless and somewhat childish debate, where opinions and facts are shoved aside for personal bias.

[didymos1120]

essarr71 wrote...

Actually entirely true.  She brainwashed a village to kill her mother.  And I'm assuming no sex was involved with that.

Well, actually, she brainwashed them for fun and so they'd bring her "sacrifices".  Then Samara found her, and she used them as cannon fodder so she could get away.

[Gixxer6Rdr]

Christ I hate my phone.... I typed alas, it puts Alan. Yep, new phone time.

[AlexXIV]

dreman9999 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

morinth doesnt deserve to live more then anyone shes previously killed. she deserves to live less.

i wouldnt excuse a serial killer of their murders, for any reason. im not sure why anyone would defend morinths killings. its a little out of touch looking for reaons why morinth is "an alright person."

Who ever said that I did not want Morinth to die? I understand that she need to die but  only because she is too dangerous not evil. I'm just saying that she is not really evil in the sense everyone like you think she is. She's also a victem as well. Give the choice victem or not, I would kill her myself anyway.

morinth murders people, dude.

do you know what the consequence of murder is?

/end discusion

I think I know the consequence of murder. People feel obliged to jump to the murderer's defense because they had a bad childhood? Can I have a cookie now?

You not understanding. I all up for killing her because she kills people. I'm just say she is not as evil as you make her out to be. She is also a victem. But being a victem does not mean she is immune to punishment. If death is her punishment, so be it. Let not brand her as being totally evil with out trying to understand her. 

'Evil' is a religious term. As in if you believe in good or evil. Angels and demons or something like that. People are never really evil, but they do evil things. So did Morinth. You know there are people who do nothing wrong and still suffer and die, so I see no reason to defend or symphasize with murderers or rapists, or child molesters, or whatever kind of people are out there doing evil things just because they are not 100% evil. In my opinion a person that kills another, or purposefully ruins someone's life does not deserve my sympathy. Nef is dead and nobody can bring her back, and it was an unnecessary, senseless death. That's all that counts for me. What someone like Morinth deserves becomes unimportant to me the moment someone died because of her. Then all that counts is that she must be killed and best forgotten.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

dreman9999 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Garrus = Charles Bronson in Death Wish. Kills because no one else will do the dirty job.

Morinth = Hannibal Lecter in "Hannibal". Kills for pleasure. "Nothing leaves you quite as empty as an Ardat Yakshi."-- Aria.

Shepard = Dirty Harry.

The problem with that consept isthe fact that Mornith only murders people one way ...with sex. If she just murders because she enjoys it, Why hasn't she murdered people other ways?

Why? Because her victim has to fit a certain profile. They have to at least be as attracted to depravity as she is, interesting to her -- i.e. maybe see art in violence, or be sensually driven. So she has to find them attractive in this manner. She enjoys the killing because she consumes their life force, and that is her way. Asari have sex via mind and emotional melding. Morinth likes the control she has over her victims.

Serial killers tend to murder with a certain signature. This is hers. She cannot stop because she is addicted to it, and addicted beyond any redemption. Her sisters went into seclusion after they discovered they were Ardat Yakshi. Morinth needed to be culled, which is what Samara did.

Another way to think of her is as the Green River killer. Look him up on the internet.

[essarr71]

didymos1120 wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

Actually entirely true.  She brainwashed a village to kill her mother.  And I'm assuming no sex was involved with that.

Well, actually, she brainwashed them for fun and so they'd bring her "sacrifices".  Then Samara found her, and she used them as cannon fodder so she could get away.

Sure, but do you hold the villagers responsible for their fate? 

[dreman9999]

Valdrane78 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
I never said she was not. She is a monster, just not the embodiment of evil people think she is. She maybe evil and deserve to die but I feel that some sympathy is need. Her case is not so cut and dry.

You kept claiming she wasn't evil. There are different types of evil I know but each type of evil is no less evil at all. Morinth made her choice. She chose a path that she knew was monstrous and she became a monster. There is no sympathy for her. I have sympathy for her sisters but not for Morinth. 

No, I said she is not as evil people feel she is. That's not say she is not evil.Most of the reason she is like the way she is  not her choice. But the choices to kill is still her own and she does deserve judgement for it. But she still deserve simpathy because of her case.
If she become the way she is with out having her condition, then I would agree thats she is pure evil. But her condition is a factor, being that I fell that she is not purly evil. Hech, She can still find redemtion.

Okay let me get this straight. She is evil. A monster. She doesn't deserve Judgement but she deserves Sympathy

No offense. Your reasoning makes little sense. 

No, you got part of it wrong. She does desurve Judgement, she just also deserved some sympathy as well.

Any sympathy that she may have garnered from me was expunged when she began murdering people for her own pleasure.

But she is not murdering people for her own pleasure. It that her own pleasure kills the person she is with. If it was that she was murdering people because she likes it, she would have more than one way to murder someone. She only focus on one thing, having sex with the person. The thing is that the sex kills them. It not that she does it because she enjoys their death, she does it because she like sex.

[dreman9999]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Garrus = Charles Bronson in Death Wish. Kills because no one else will do the dirty job.

Morinth = Hannibal Lecter in "Hannibal". Kills for pleasure. "Nothing leaves you quite as empty as an Ardat Yakshi."-- Aria.

Shepard = Dirty Harry.

The problem with that consept isthe fact that Mornith only murders people one way ...with sex. If she just murders because she enjoys it, Why hasn't she murdered people other ways?

Why? Because her victim has to fit a certain profile. They have to at least be as attracted to depravity as she is, interesting to her -- i.e. maybe see art in violence, or be sensually driven. So she has to find them attractive in this manner. She enjoys the killing because she consumes their life force, and that is her way. Asari have sex via mind and emotional melding. Morinth likes the control she has over her victims.

Serial killers tend to murder with a certain signature. This is hers. She cannot stop because she is addicted to it, and addicted beyond any redemption. Her sisters went into seclusion after they discovered they were Ardat Yakshi. Morinth needed to be culled, which is what Samara did.

Another way to think of her is as the Green River killer. Look him up on the internet.

You telling me what she does...Not telling me why does not us anothe way of murdering someone. Yes, serial killers use signatures but they also add on to how they kill someone over time. Their kills get worse. Mornith's kills don't. And serial killer tend to want people to know they did it with out telling them who they are, that why they use signitures. Nothing on the dead state anything like that other then the fact that someone with Morinth's condition killed the person, shr tries not to have anything point to the fact she did it.

[essarr71]

dreman9999 wrote...

Their kills get worse. Mornith's kills don't.

Source?

Also, you claim Morinth to be different than a serial killer, but Samara has a pretty good profile of her.

She seeks out those that stand out from the crowd, that show destintive qualities.  She might not target simply homeless people, or prostitutes, or only blondes, but it's explained that she does have a "preferred prey".  Also, unlike someone who is looking to maximize their power to save their own hide, Morinth takes delight in the hunt.  She plays cat and mouse with Nef... hell, she flat out takes her time luring her in over a few weeks.  This isn't the behavior of someone who has an agenda outside of simply enjoying the process.

Quick edit:

As Ive said numerous times here (why i countinue to bash my head, I dunno), if this conversation is about Asari and their approuch to AY, I can see why these arguments have some merit.  But in the case of Morinth, it's rediculous how the few here continue to ignore what we know over what's presumed.

All this talk about Morinth doing what she "needs" to do to ensure her freedom isn't at all represented in the game.  And while the sample size is small, and perhaps biased, it IS the only info we know for sure.

Modifié par essarr71, 01 octobre 2011 - 04:23 .

[dreman9999]

Gixxer6Rdr wrote...

Dreman9999, yes actually, I could point out how Shepard and Morinth talk about power etc in the bar... or when she mentions it in her apartment.... but eh, why waste my time. 30 plus pages of nerds arguing over the morality of a blatant murderer and sociopath... but like I said earlier, can't change someones else's stubborn opinion, and I don't really care to try. But... since I majored in abnormal/criminal psychology... I actually DO know a sociopath when I see one. But Alan since no doubt you also are an expert on behavioral health, you know better huh? (snicker snicker) Have lots of fun with this pointless and somewhat childish debate, where opinions and facts are shoved aside for personal bias.

She talks about power after talking about how she likes going to violent places. She then state she like the power of overcoming an opponent. She also state's later she likes dueling....What doe that mean....She likes brutal combat and fighting... That does not mean that she is a murder. We have an entire planet in ME  that's like that.
And instead of trying to throw your weight around stating your major, give details to why she is a irredeemable sociopath

[dreman9999]

essarr71 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Their kills get worse. Mornith's kills don't.

Source?

Also, you claim Morinth to be different than a serial killer, but Samara has a pretty good profile of her.

She seeks out those that stand out from the crowd, that show destintive qualities.  She might not target simply homeless people, or prostitutes, or only blondes, but it's explained that she does have a "preferred prey".  Also, unlike someone who is looking to maximize their power to save their own hide, Morinth takes delight in the hunt.  She plays cat and mouse with Nef... hell, she flat out takes her time luring her in over a few weeks.  This isn't the behavior of someone who has an agenda outside of simply enjoying the process.

Source? That how debauchery works.
Also, So what if she hunts? To hunt does not mean to kill.  A hunter is not the same as a murder. In the end she still kills them in on way...with sex. In the end, no matter what, it's all about the sex with her. She gets her high from the sex. The sex kills them. That is just neglect.

Modifié par dreman9999, 01 octobre 2011 - 04:29 .

[dreman9999]

jreezy wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Garrus = Charles Bronson in Death Wish. Kills because no one else will do the dirty job.

Morinth = Hannibal Lecter in "Hannibal". Kills for pleasure. "Nothing leaves you quite as empty as an Ardat Yakshi."-- Aria.

Shepard = Dirty Harry.

The problem with that consept isthe fact that Mornith only murders people one way ...with sex. If she just murders because she enjoys it, Why hasn't she murdered people other ways?

False.

False? Can you point me to a time she murders someone, who is not tring to kill her, in another way?

[dreman9999]

SandTrout wrote...

unfringed wrote...

That's the only point being made here.

Except that Morinth is closer to the sport killer than the parapalegic.

If she kills for sport. Why is she not killing people in more than one way?

[essarr71]

Neglect? Really?

So her motivation is sex, and despite knowing it's a death sentence for the other person, she is compelled to do it. Aaaaand she's not a serial killer, how? (This also throws the notion of her doing what she does because of survival instinct out the window, btw)

Give me one example, from anywhere, where this scenario isn't the work of a monster?

And yes, I'd like a source to you claiming Morinths kills haven't gotten worse.  There's no mention of her history that I'm aware in this regard.

Modifié par essarr71, 01 octobre 2011 - 04:29 .

[dreman9999]

essarr71 wrote...

Neglect? Really?

So her motivation is sex, and despite knowing it's a death sentence for the other person, she is compelled to do it. Aaaaand she's not a serial killer, how? (This also throws the notion of her doing what she does because of survival instinct out the window, btw)

Give me one example, from anywhere, where this scenario isn't the work of a monster?

I never said she is not a monster.(How many time do I have to say this.) Nor did I not say she is not a serial killer. Nor did I say she is doing this out of survival.
She is a monster. But her case is more like a person with HIV knowningly infecting someone else with HIV during sex then Jack the ripper. The only thing that makes her a serial killer is the fact that normal sex with her kills her mates.
If you take away the fact she kills with sex.....You have nothing else to point to that shows she is a serial killer.
She basicly the roman version of Medusa. Her greatest crime is the neglect she has. She know she kills with sex, but she does not care about her victems.... She just wants the high of sex.
Also add on the fact that she really has two choices in her life.....Suffer with the fact she has to live her life with the condition she has and cutting off intimacy or live life as a monster. If you want to understand what I mean, think of it this way, if you were a cripple but find out that their is a procedure  that can cure you but at a cost of someones life what will you do...Live the life of  a cripple or be cure at the expenceof someones life?

[dreman9999]

jreezy wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
You telling me what she does...Not telling me why does not us anothe way of murdering someone. Yes, serial killers use signatures but they also add on to how they kill someone over time. Their kills get worse. Mornith's kills don't. And serial killer tend to want people to know they did it with out telling them who they are, that why they use signitures. Nothing on the dead state anything like that other then the fact that someone with Morinth's condition killed the person, shr tries not to have anything point to the fact she did it.

Among the Asari she should know that's exactly what she did.

Among older Asari. The two that understand what they are looking at are matriarchs. One of them has been hunting Mornith down for hundreds of years.