3434 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

I've completely given up. Dreman's view is the inverse of ours (we believe she wants to kill, and the method/byproduct is sex; dreman believes she wants sex, and murder is the by-product/method) and she/he isn't changing.

But there is nothing that point to the fact that she is doing it because she likes killing. Everything shown in th game applies she is doing it for the sex.

[dreman9999]

jreezy wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jreezy wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
You telling me what she does...Not telling me why does not us anothe way of murdering someone. Yes, serial killers use signatures but they also add on to how they kill someone over time. Their kills get worse. Mornith's kills don't. And serial killer tend to want people to know they did it with out telling them who they are, that why they use signitures. Nothing on the dead state anything like that other then the fact that someone with Morinth's condition killed the person, shr tries not to have anything point to the fact she did it.

Among the Asari she should know that's exactly what she did.

Among older Asari. The two that understand what they are looking at are matriarchs. One of them has been hunting Mornith down for hundreds of years.

Even young Asari like Elnora know what an Ardat Yakshi is, or at least have a general idea.

She only knew because she was told.

[essarr71]

You claim it's not about survival, then say she needs to do it to survive.

And your points have been brought up many times, by a few people. So, in regards to your example of a cripple being justified killing an innocent so they can be "normal" ill counter with my own example.

I had a rough week of work. To make myself feel better, I'll drink heavily at the bar tonight. On my way home, while quite drunk, I hit someone crossing the street and kill them. But it's ok that I did this.. I had a rough week and needed to drink.

Modifié par essarr71, 01 octobre 2011 - 04:48 .

[dreman9999]

SandTrout wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

I'm just say it ok to judge her for killing. But to find her to be the most evil person ever is flawed because  her condition is  a factor. Her only choice in life is to suffer in silence or live as ruthlessly as possible.

Think of it this way. If your crippled for life and you learn there is a way to undo it but it's cost the life of someone else to do it. What would you do...Live your life as a cripple or do the procedure at the cost of someones life.
That's the extremes of her case. It's ether suffer for life or live happily as a monster.

Yeah, if you kill to heal your spine, I'd still consider you a monster.

Yes, I know. But the question is if you would do it. If you can intimation what life is like as a cripple and say you can easily say no to the procedure, then your not understanding my point.

[dreman9999]

jreezy wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

I've completely given up. Dreman's view is the inverse of ours (we believe she wants to kill, and the method/byproduct is sex; dreman believes she wants sex, and murder is the by-product/method) and she/he isn't changing.

But there is nothing that point to the fact that she is doing it because she likes killing. Everything shown in th game applies she is doing it for the sex.

If you REALLY paid attention to Morinth's dialogue you'd know that's not true.

Yes, I have listen to her dialogue.. She tell you she likes going to dangrous place, she like dueling, she like overcoming opponets in contest.....That not being a serial killer. That someone who likes to fight and contest with people. Even if she likes killing them in the end, she still like to have the contest and the fight of the conflict.....And their is an entire planet filled with being that are like that...... If you feel that makes some one a murder, than you need to look up what a murder is.

[thatguy212]

essarr71 wrote...

You claim it's not about survival, then say she needs to do it to survive.

And your points have been brought up many times, by a few people. So, in regards to your example of a cripple being justified killing an innocent so they can be "normal" ill counter with my own example.

I had a rough week of work. To make myself feel better, I'll drink heavily at the bar tonight. On my way home, while quite drunk, I hit someone crossing the street and kill them. But it's ok that I did this.. I had a rough week and needed to drink.

so you're saying that morinth is allowed to kill as long as a friend drives her home

[essarr71]

dreman9999 wrote...

Yes, I have listen to her dialogue.. She tell you she likes going to dangrous place, she like dueling, she like overcoming opponets in contest.....That not being a serial killer. That someone who likes to fight and contest with people. Even if she likes killing them in the end, she still like to have the contest and the fight of the conflict.....And their is an entire planet filled with being that are like that...... If you feel that makes some one a murder, than you need to look up what a murder is.

Yeup.. quite the duel she had with Nef.  Can you give me another example where Morinth duels with her prey?

[essarr71]

thatguy212 wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

You claim it's not about survival, then say she needs to do it to survive.

And your points have been brought up many times, by a few people. So, in regards to your example of a cripple being justified killing an innocent so they can be "normal" ill counter with my own example.

I had a rough week of work. To make myself feel better, I'll drink heavily at the bar tonight. On my way home, while quite drunk, I hit someone crossing the street and kill them. But it's ok that I did this.. I had a rough week and needed to drink.

so you're saying that morinth is allowed to kill as long as a friend drives her home

That must have gone over my head.  Don't see how that makes any sense.

[mango smoothie]

I have a feeling that actually Samara will even hate paragon players after what happens with Arrival, so saving Morinth and killing Samara might actually avoid someone who could end up fighting you.

[thatguy212]

essarr71 wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

You claim it's not about survival, then say she needs to do it to survive.

And your points have been brought up many times, by a few people. So, in regards to your example of a cripple being justified killing an innocent so they can be "normal" ill counter with my own example.

I had a rough week of work. To make myself feel better, I'll drink heavily at the bar tonight. On my way home, while quite drunk, I hit someone crossing the street and kill them. But it's ok that I did this.. I had a rough week and needed to drink.

so you're saying that morinth is allowed to kill as long as a friend drives her home

That must have gone over my head.  Don't see how that makes any sense.

joke post = joke

[essarr71]

jreezy wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

thatguy212 wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

You claim it's not about survival, then say she needs to do it to survive.

And your points have been brought up many times, by a few people. So, in regards to your example of a cripple being justified killing an innocent so they can be "normal" ill counter with my own example.

I had a rough week of work. To make myself feel better, I'll drink heavily at the bar tonight. On my way home, while quite drunk, I hit someone crossing the street and kill them. But it's ok that I did this.. I had a rough week and needed to drink.

so you're saying that morinth is allowed to kill as long as a friend drives her home

That must have gone over my head.  Don't see how that makes any sense.

It ties in with your drunk driving scenario.

Oh i got the reference.  Just don't get how a DD who gets everyone home safe = the kill that didn't happen is ok. 

[dreman9999]

essarr71 wrote...

You claim it's not about survival, then say she needs to do it to survive.

And your points have been brought up many times, by a few people. So, in regards to your example of a cripple being justified killing an innocent so they can be "normal" ill counter with my own example.

I had a rough week of work. To make myself feel better, I'll drink heavily at the bar tonight. On my way home, while quite drunk, I hit someone crossing the street and kill them. But it's ok that I did this.. I had a rough week and needed to drink.

What? i never siad she did it to survive. Reread what a wrote before, please.... You not understanding what i'M saying.
It's not the same as drinking....why? Not drinking does not leave you with a heavy life longer burden and suffering. You do it to make your self feel better. If you don't drink, does that mean you going to be miserable for your entire life? What ever pain you have to cause you the drink will go away even if you don't drink. Mornith, no matter what she does has her condition for life. It will never go away and she has to suffer from it for life and to not have sex because of it mean she has to suffer from it even more form the condition.
Your  comparison is not the same as what Mornith has.

[dreman9999]

essarr71 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Yes, I have listen to her dialogue.. She tell you she likes going to dangrous place, she like dueling, she like overcoming opponets in contest.....That not being a serial killer. That someone who likes to fight and contest with people. Even if she likes killing them in the end, she still like to have the contest and the fight of the conflict.....And their is an entire planet filled with being that are like that...... If you feel that makes some one a murder, than you need to look up what a murder is.

Yeup.. quite the duel she had with Nef.  Can you give me another example where Morinth duels with her prey?

Wait ...What? I don't even understand your point?

[dreman9999]

jreezy wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Yes, I have listen to her dialogue.. She tell you she likes going to dangrous place, she like dueling, she like overcoming opponets in contest.....That not being a serial killer. That someone who likes to fight and contest with people. Even if she likes killing them in the end, she still like to have the contest and the fight of the conflict.....And their is an entire planet filled with being that are like that...... If you feel that makes some one a murder, than you need to look up what a murder is.

Yeup.. quite the duel she had with Nef.  Can you give me another example where Morinth duels with her prey?

Wait ...What? I don't even understand your point?

Killing Nef was murder. Making Morinth a murderer. What's tough to understand here?

The dueling reference. I made a statement that if you cut out the fact Mornith kills with sex, their is nothing  to point to that states she is a murder and the fact that Dueling people to death is not murder and.....He/SHE brings up Morniths murder she did with sex.....How does that counter my point?

Modifié par dreman9999, 01 octobre 2011 - 05:19 .

[dreman9999]

jreezy wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

I'm just say it ok to judge her for killing. But to find her to be the most evil person ever is flawed because  her condition is  a factor. Her only choice in life is to suffer in silence or live as ruthlessly as possible.

Think of it this way. If your crippled for life and you learn there is a way to undo it but it's cost the life of someone else to do it. What would you do...Live your life as a cripple or do the procedure at the cost of someones life.
That's the extremes of her case. It's ether suffer for life or live happily as a monster.

Yeah, if you kill to heal your spine, I'd still consider you a monster.

Yes, I know. But the question is if you would do it. If you can intimation what life is like as a cripple and say you can easily say no to the procedure, then your not understanding my point.

If by "crippled" you mean being unable to get around like normal people then I can imagine what that's like. I wouldn't kill anyone to correct that if it was a permanent condition.

yes, but could you easily say no to the procedure? You would never have any regrets turning it down?

[essarr71]

dreman9999 wrote...

essarr71 wrote...

You claim it's not about survival, then say she needs to do it to survive.

And your points have been brought up many times, by a few people. So, in regards to your example of a cripple being justified killing an innocent so they can be "normal" ill counter with my own example.

I had a rough week of work. To make myself feel better, I'll drink heavily at the bar tonight. On my way home, while quite drunk, I hit someone crossing the street and kill them. But it's ok that I did this.. I had a rough week and needed to drink.

What? i never siad she did it to survive. Reread what a wrote before, please.... You not understanding what i'M saying.
It's not the same as drinking....why? Not drinking does not leave you with a heavy life longer burden and suffering. You do it to make your self feel better. If you don't drink, does that mean you going to be miserable for your entire life? What ever pain you have to cause you the drink will go away even if you don't drink. Mornith, no matter what she does has her condition for life. It will never go away and she has to suffer from it for life and to not have sex because of it mean she has to suffer from it even more form the condition.
Your  comparison is not the same as what Mornith has.

And who is to say that being cripple means you'll be miserable your entire life as well?  I think my example holds up pretty well.  It's about being responsible.  Morinth, it seems, is justified to be brutal simply because she got dealt a bad hand.  It doesn't work that way.

The big issue here isn't the argument tho, it's the field.  If you want people to stop arguing about Morinths motivations, start talking about how Asari treat AY.  You've admitted that Morinth is a monster, so stop defending her actions.  You might understand why she did what she did.. and I garner that everyone here who disagrees with people who sympathize with her understands it too.  The problem is, she's not going to win anyone over by killing innocents.

Now if Morinth killed only other killers (ala Dexter) or if she limited her killing to the very old or sick, it might be a more gray area.  The fact is we KNOW she targets people who are filled with life and strength.  That's what attracts her.  We know she's indifferent about the consequences of her actions.

Imagine how much tricker the confrontation between Morinth and Samara would have been if both of them were two sides of the same coin.  One killing bad guys out of a pious code, rightous and absolute, the other doing it thru a carnal addition, brutal and deceptive.  It's not that way, tho.

(to extrapolate on Nef)
You claim her approuch is one of looking for a challenge.. as her dialogue with you suggests it appeals to her, but what challenge did a naive teenage girl pose to a hunter like Morinth?  What possible hurdles did she have to jump to win Nef over?  Nef had no shot from day one.  Morinth took her time because she enjoyed stretching it out.  Cat and mouse.